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[Donnie]

orbis is rumoured to have 32 ROPs. I was wondering in the context of the 4k talk whether that number was suited to driving that resolution well.

The OP says 8 ROPS for the Orbis GPU, same as last gen and XBox3 is likely the same.

To be honest theoretical pixel fillrates in consoles like 360 and PS3 aren't close to being tapped, what's limiting their fillrate in games is shader performance (the work done on the pixel before its outputted). Probably why they've stayed with 8 ROPS as it'll be ok for 1080p. Having said that 4K isn't going to happen IMO, not because of ROPS (though certainly 8 wouldn't support that) but again because of shader performance (you'd need more shader performance then Sony and MS are providing to process that number of pixels even if you had the fillrate).

 

[spwolf]

Umm no

4 Gb (gigabits) is 0.5 GB (gigabytes)

I think for them to be "real next gen" consoles they should have 8GB , even the WiiU has 2GB and it's "last gen".

lol... wtf.

then I am going by at least 32 Gbits.

 

[Chuck Norris]

they wait a few years just like they did this gen

A lot of them didn't wait, they bought cheaper alternatives.

 

[Momentary]

What kind of RAM are you referring to? 8GB of DDR3 ram or GDDR5 ram?

The Nvidia Titan will come with 6gb of GDDR5 at the end of February.

 

[Erimriv]

You should have acted.
They're already here.
Their post history told of their return.
Their defeat was merely a delay
'Til the time after the Wii U released,
When the sons of GAF would spill their own blood.
But no one wanted to believe,
Believe they even existed.
And when the truth finally dawns,
It dawns in bans.
But there's one they fear;
In their tongue, he's bish-- bishoptl!

Lol, brilliant.

 

[gofreak]

The OP says 8 ROPS for the Orbis GPU.

8 GCN render-backends = 32 ROPs. They have 4 ROPs each.

 

[onQ123]

The cell has speeds up to 3.2ghz connected to high speed XDR memory. In terms of speed it completely smokes orbis CPU

Smoke it at what? being fast?

it's not a race the 8 Jaguar cores will be better than the PPU at normal CPU tasks & the 4 CU's will be better than the 6 SPE's with computing.

 

[Kaako]

The Nvidia Titan will come with 6gb of GDDR5 at the end of February.

Can't wait to see what that beast can do; love ultra high end GPUs. However, it can potentially cost more than PS4 & 720 combined(depending on console pricing). lol

 

[gbovo]

They don't sell sticks of GDDR5 ram. They sell video cards that come with GDDR5.

DDR4 ram will be hitting PCs an Laptops at the end of the year or at the start of 2014. That will be expensive.

My point exactly. 8gb of GDDR5 ram is an obscene amount of ram for a 2013 console. Besides the fact that there would be too many ram modules on the motherboard, excessive heat dissipation, and cost an astronomical price.

 

[Castor Krieg]

besides 600 dollar investment designed to last 10 years is not that much if you think about it

Yet most people do not think like that, otherwise most hardware would be flying off the shelves.

 

[M°°nblade]

4gb is nowhere near enough for a console that is designed to last 10 years.

hell within 10 years PC games would be using double that RAM

It wouldn’t be that different from the current gen where PC games use more than 1GB RAM while PS360 hardware is stuck with 512MB.

And wouldn't that just shift the bottleneck from RAM to GPU or bandwidth? Orbis and Durango hardware will be archaic in 2023 anyway.
It’s not like that extra 512MB RAM inside the Wii U is showing itself at the moment.

 

[Donnie]

8 GCN render-backends = 32 ROPs. They have 4 ROPs each.

Oh, had no idea AMD's new GPU's bunched ROPS together.

 

[spwolf]

Can't wait to see what that beast can do; love ultra high end GPUs. However, it can potentially cost more than PS4 & 720 combined(depending on console pricing). lol

Its going to be $900.

 

[H_Prestige]

Next gen playstation to last for 3 years only? That would one way ticket to gaming crash. Consoles are not PCs. The appeal of a console is that it is not only a closed system but it's has uniform standard. No playing around with drivers, or installing new things and consoles are meant to last far more than PCs

Launching after 3 years instead of 6 wouldn't change any of that.

 

[Bikram]

People are saying that next gen games will require 16 GB RAM. But what about the cost of production for such games. Budgets are already high as it is, I don't think the industry can sustain higher budgets.

 

[Kaako]

Its going to be $900.

I'm aware of that, hence my statement considering we don't know the pricing for PS4 and 720. Still hoping for both of them to start at $399. Not that unrealistic, is it?

People are saying that next gen games will require 16 GB RAM. But what about the cost of production for such games. Budgets are already high as it is, I don't think the industry can sustain higher budgets.

No one said this I believe. That one dreamer said 8GBs for games and 8GBs reserved for OS.

 

[stryke]

People are saying that next gen games will require 16 GB RAM. But what about the cost of production for such games. Budgets are already high as it is, I don't think the industry can sustain higher budgets.

What people?

 

[Mononoke]

I do not care per se which console is better, except it would be unfortunate to be stuck with the console that does have the inferior ports for the entire generation cycle. As you and another poster pointed out, according to reports the new Sony will be easier to develop for, that still doesn't dissuade my uneasiness that Sony could find a way to mess up and still have the substandard ports again next cycle.

I agree with this sentiment. I don't care about brand loyalty, I just care about getting the best product.

That said, my fear of one console being gimped for the entire generation is a lot lower than yours. I still think, even if one system ends up being superior, the difference won't be huge. And we still aren't considering the fact that, each console has it's own style of exclusives. It's kind of getting to a point where, if you really love games, you have to buy both consoles. Just to have access to each systems exclusives. Then you play the 3rd party titles on whatever system has superior performance.

 

[M°°nblade]

People are saying that next gen games will require 16 GB RAM. But what about the cost of production for such games. Budgets are already high as it is, I don't think the industry can sustain higher budgets.

More RAM doesn't equal higher budgets. I'd worry more about the hardware costs.

I don't see the point in console manufacturers futureproofing themselves for something that will 'maybe' be a benefit within 10 years. The statement that next-gen consoles will last that long is a serious assumption as well.

 

[The Omega Man]

The Nvidia Titan will come with 6gb of GDDR5 at the end of February.

sure, at what price?

 

[Gaogaogao]

sure, at what price?

$900 lol

 

[Interfectum]

More RAM doesn't equal higher budgets. I'd worry more about the hardware costs.

I don't see the point in console manufacturers futureproofing themselves for something that will 'maybe' be a benefit within 10 years. The statement that next-gen consoles will last that long is a serious assumption as well.

Yeah, if Sony/MS worry about 'future proofing' too much they'll price themselves out of the market so far they won't have to worry about ten years as the systems will be dead in two.

The specs on both systems seem good enough to bring us some epic shit later this year.

 

[Felix Lighter]

4gb is nowhere near enough for a console that is designed to last 10 years.

hell within 10 years PC games would be using double that RAM

There is no possible reasonable way for Sony or MS to design consoles today that will be technically equivalent to PCs a decade from now. The difference in ram will be insignificant compared to the raw computing power of the CPUs and GPUs 10 years from now.

 

[Bikram]

What people?

I'm aware of that, hence my statement considering we don't know the pricing for PS4 and 720. Still hoping for both of them to start at $399. Not that unrealistic, is it?

No one said this I believe. That one dreamer said 8GBs for games and 8GBs reserved for OS.

Lol I can't go back and search for the names. But there were people suggesting 4 GB is far too less for next gen and 16 GB is minimum and stuff.

 

[Razgreez]

People asking for screen on the controller are crazy. I can't imagine recharging the controller every 3 hours. Just absurd!

I don't envision there being a screen on the front of it but even if there was its battery drain could be limited by only turning it on when tapped/necessary

 

[Clear]

Hands up, I really never expected Sony to adopt x86 - its such a huge break from the past and makes PS3 BC far more problematic than necessary, a big deal when considering what this means for the PSN inventory- but looking at these specs it seems like a smart if somewhat conservative business decision.

The bulk of the BoM is going to be the Liverpool SoC, which should cost no more than $200 at the outsetm and should scale down nicely going forward. Performance should be very good and its not too radical in design meaning that yields shouldn't be an issue.

Clearly price/performance has been Sony's guiding principle for the project, not a bad idea given how badly PS3 $599 launch price hurt them this gen.

 

[racerx77]

I know it's not gonna happen, but what if they did RAM expansion for these systems similar to the way sega did with it's Saturn RAM cart? Not sure why these companies would not think ahead...

 

[ScepticMatt]

8 GB of GDDR5 RAM would be 32 chips on the mainboard

To be fair it would be 16 chips on a 512 bit bus (with current gen chips used on 6 GB 7970s)
But I seriously doubt they could afford a 512 bit interface or a a 16 chip TSV stack anyway.

 

[stryke]

Lol I can't go back and search for the names. But there were people suggesting 4 GB is far too less for next gen and 16 GB is minimum and stuff.

Then if you can't bakup those claims with a reputable name/source, it's difficult to take you seriously. If you genuinely don't understand ram type/speed/etc vs amount, go read the next-gen ram thread.

 

[Racer30]

There is no possible reasonable way for Sony or MS to design consoles today that will be technically equivalent to PCs a decade from now. The difference in ram will be insignificant compared to the raw computing power of the CPUs and GPUs 10 years from now.

The problem this time is that the consoles barely match the specs of a mid range PC a year BEFORE launch.

This will leave a huge gap at the high end side, and is a free ticket for someone like Samsung if they would want to enter the console space. I`m afraid the PS4 will be so mediocre that it will just fade away like Vita. It wont do anything special, will just be same shit, a little prettier...not sure that will go so well with building hype create "the next big thing".

I`m afraid for Sony at this point, everything is just mediocre. At a good pricepoint maybe, but that wont matter if people just dont care for it or other competition comes along and blows it away.

As Steve Jobs said, you`ve got to give the customers what they dont know they want. What Sony does here (IF the specs are right) is just trying to play it safe, and try to listen to everybody and comes up with something in the middle of everything. Mediocre. Never works in business.

As for Microsoft; they making this mistake shouldnt surprise anyone. Remember when the Iphone was revealed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eywi0h_Y5_U

This clown doesnt know anything.

 

[TheExecutive]

I don't really care how big it's junk is. Wil it play play ps3 games?

You don't care what the specs are but only that it will play ps3 games?

I have a solution for you and it's out right now!

 

[Pie and Beans]

I know it's not gonna happen, but what if they did RAM expansion for these systems similar to the way sega did with it's Saturn RAM cart? Not sure why these companies would not think ahead...

If you only understand how technology from 1997 works, this topic concerning tech 16 years later really isn't for you.

 

[SSM25]

The problem this time is that the consoles barely match the specs of a mid range PC a year BEFORE launch.

This will leave a huge gap at the high end side, and is a free ticket for someone like Samsung if they would want to enter the console space. I`m afraid the PS4 will be so mediocre that it will just fade away like Vita. It wont do anything special, will just be same shit, a little prettier...not sure that will go so well with building hype create "the next big thing".

I`m afraid for Sony at this point, everything is just mediocre. At a good pricepoint maybe, but that wont matter if people just dont care for it or other competition comes along and blows it away.

As Steve Jobs said, you`ve got to give the customers what they dont know they want. What Sony does here (IF the specs are right) is just trying to play it safe, and try to listen to everybody and comes up with something in the middle of everything. Mediocre. Never works in business.

The problem is that MS and Sony are both playing safe now, no more cutting edge tech at the expense of going out of bussines

 

[Bikram]

Then if you can't bakup those claims with a reputable name/source, it's difficult to take you seriously. If you genuinely don't understand ram type/speed/etc vs amount, go read the next-gen ram thread.

I understand RAM types and speed, that's why I asked a serious question that why next gen games would require such obscene amount of RAM.

 

[racerx77]

If you only understand how technology from 1997 works, this topic concerning tech 16 years later really isn't for you.

tis true.. I am no techie by any means, but I am trying to learn.

 

[TheExecutive]

The problem this time is that the consoles barely match the specs of a mid range PC a year BEFORE launch.

This will leave a huge gap at the high end side, and is a free ticket for someone like Samsung if they would want to enter the console space. I`m afraid the PS4 will be so mediocre that it will just fade away like Vita. It wont do anything special, will just be same shit, a little prettier...not sure that will go so well with building hype create "the next big thing".

I`m afraid for Sony at this point, everything is just mediocre. At a good pricepoint maybe, but that wont matter if people just dont care for it or other competition comes along and blows it away.

As Steve Jobs said, you`ve got to give the customers what they dont know they want. What Sony does here (IF the specs are right) is just trying to play it safe, and try to listen to everybody and comes up with something in the middle of everything. Mediocre. Never works in business.

As for Microsoft; they making this mistake shouldnt surprise anyone. Remember when the Iphone was revealed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eywi0h_Y5_U

This clown doesnt know anything.

Ok, what did I miss? Have the specs changed? Judging the PS4 specs that I saw last night to a PC is like apples to oranges. If you judge by raw parts alone it looks weak but the architecture and closed system is what matters.

And you are crazy. I think the consumers the consumers spoke loudly enough when the ps3 came out about exactly what they wanted in a console and it wasn't $600.

 

[Racer30]

The problem is that MS and Sony are both playing safe now, no more cutting edge tech at the expense of going out of bussines

You mean like Apple did with the Iphone and almost every other product they have ever launced?

I think if the rumors are right, the landscape during next gen, towards next next gen will be very different...

 

[painful fart]

To be fair it would be 16 chips on a 512 bit bus (with current gen chips used on 6 GB 7970s)
But I seriously doubt they could afford a 512 bit interface or a a 16 chip TSV stack anyway.

No. The card has memory on both sides.
http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/sapphire__toxic_hd7970_6gb/2.htm

 

[Racer30]

Ok, what did I miss? Have the specs changed? Judging the PS4 specs that I saw last night to a PC is like apples to oranges. If you judge by raw parts alone it looks weak but the architecture and closed system is what matters.

And you are crazy. I think the consumers the consumers spoke loudly enough when the ps3 came out about exactly what they wanted in a console and it wasn't $600.

Regarding the PS3, thats because the experience it provided could be had at 399.

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

8GB is the miniumum and i mean absolute minimum for next generation.

If you want to see a truly next generation experience that lasts 7 years till 2021 you need to have lots of ram.

It's just basic common sense. If it were upto me i would have 8gb for ps4 os and 8gb for games.

Then you will have a console that will keep game developers happy and also sony firmware engineers who want to add new services and apps to the system. win win

thank god you don't have anything to say regarding these consoles.

 

[i-Lo]

That's less than 7900 series.

Dont forget, developers think about frames, not seconds. Divide 1.6 billion triangles by 60, and you will get 26.6 million triangles per one frame in a 60fps game.

It is the same as 7950.

 

[Binabik15]

One thing that I'm really hyped for is that over the last years Sony seems to have managed to roughly get their first party studios lined up to have polished games at launch, maybe a slight negative or positve timeframe for change of plans/delays, and then fire on full cylinders from then on, rotating IPs and multiple teams to drop AAA bombs in regular intervalls for at least some years after launch while still having the manpower for smaller games and "test" games to find more big IPs. Of course they might get bogged down in development issues, maybe GoW or KZ or Uncharted won't release on PS4 or flop, but they should be in a good position. Even counting Sony Japan's impressive output and timely finished games.

AND the end of this gen won't be totally dry, despite teams spending multiple years or other stuff.

 

[Perkel]

I understand RAM types and speed, that's why I asked a serious question that why next gen games would require such obscene amount of RAM.

Amount of data next gen will increase with that you will need better bandwidth. Without it you will have popins everywhere.

 

[Backfoggen]

8 GB for the OS...

 

[Racer30]

thank god you don't have anything to say regarding these consoles.

Because then next gen would maybe provide something exciting, god forbid. But it will bite them in the ass soon enough, the market/competition will see to that.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

8GB is the miniumum and i mean absolute minimum for next generation.

If you want to see a truly next generation experience that lasts 7 years till 2021 you need to have lots of ram.

It's just basic common sense. If it were upto me i would have 8gb for ps4 os and 8gb for games.

Then you will have a console that will keep game developers happy and also sony firmware engineers who want to add new services and apps to the system. win win

... and no one would be able to afford one. Brilliant plan there.

 

[phosphor112]

Anybody know the amount of SIMD operations those ALU's can do, and general latencies?

 

[The Omega Man]

Anybody know the amount of SIMD operations those ALU's can do, and general latencies?

sure, the engineers who created the consoles.

 

[Pie and Beans]

Because then next gen would maybe provide something exciting, god forbid. But it will bite them in the ass soon enough, the market/competition will see to that.

You're looking at like 6-8x spec bumps from the 360/PS3. The market at large is going to find the stuff on show plenty fucking impressive, especially from first parties and other tech wizards still impressing millions with current HD games.

Only the small "well its not got as much RAM as my cutting edge custom built PC!" subset that doesnt understand what coding to console metal provides will continue to piss into the wind.

 

[Risk Breaker]

Well, if my ~700 GFLOPS laptop GPU with only 67 GB/s can run the Crysis 3 MP beta at 35+ FPS, at 1440x900, everything medium and SMAA... I now expect PS4 with a 1.4~1.8TF GPU and ~175 GB/s to easily hit 1080p@30FPS maxed or almost. (VRAM usage was around 1.1GB too)

Right?