EDGE: The next Xbox: Always online, no second-hand games, 50GB Blu-ray and new kinect
- Thread starter Hanmik
- Start date
Mortimer Brewster
Member
MS got away with an entire generation of charging a monthly fee for what is basically a free service everywhere else. While I personally hope that there would be a huge backlash, I feel the reality of the situation is that there will be a lot of noise at first, but then consumers will mostly just adapt as they always have, with reduced rights and less benefits, just to play the casual entertainment they want.
Are we certain it's not going to be the same this time wrong? Doesn't seem like Sony learned much from the PSP -> Vita transition imo. That's the main concern I feel. Any goodwill Sony has always seems to be evaporated by poor business decisions or a shit lineup.
I too am concerned that Sony will still find a way to muck this whole thing up. I also would like to add that I doubt that Sony would have the courage or progressive mindset to implement the plan I suggested. However, if by some miracle Sony did they would have the perfect opportunity to return the Playstation brand to the dominance it enjoyed during the PS2 era.
Nah, as much as I love Nintendo if MS/Sony went for this they would be effectively locking Nintendo out of any third party games cept stuff they bankroll themselves.
Then they will learn a cold hard lesson about economics.
Eighty Deuce
Banned
I have a bandwidth cap so it looks like I'll skip this one. It hurts gaf
dragonfart28
Banned
Wow, I really hope this rumor is pure bullshit. I have no plans on buying a 720 but I fear Sony would be almost forced to follow suit out of fear of 3rd parties giving MS preference. I dont buy used games that often but I would have a hard time justifying spending 400+ on system that wont even play rented, borrowed, or used games. FUCK THAT. And always online? Are you kidding me? Thats even worse.
Delusibeta
Banned
And now for an on-topic post:
If this rumour is true, then the Xbox 3 is going to fail.
The problem with anti-used-game DRM is that there isn't any alternative, unlike on PC where there's a wide selection of digital distributors willing to sell you Steam codes at a discounted price. As I result, if this article proves to be true, I suspect the retail space will become even more toxic, and bombas will become a very regular occurrence on the format due to people not willing to pay $60 in the knowledge that there's no way to claw some of it back. On the plus side, this might mean the format gets a reputation for being very cheap, but on the downside it'll mean more high profile failures and I would not be too surprised if developers and publishers move away from the format as a result.
That all said, I think this rumour is bullshit, since this a blatant violation of the First Sale Doctrine in the US and there are currently efforts to force Steam to enable the resale of Steam games in the EU after the EU Supreme Court ruled that it should be possible for digital content to be resold. If a console manufacturer includes anti-used-game DRM, they're going to get sued for both of their aforementioned reasons.
Of course, we won't know this until the run-up of the console launch, and considering that none of the new gen consoles currently available has this DRM, I'd be doubtful if Microsoft will break rank on this.
tl;dr edition:
If this rumour is true, then the Xbox 3 is going to fail.
The problem with anti-used-game DRM is that there isn't any alternative, unlike on PC where there's a wide selection of digital distributors willing to sell you Steam codes at a discounted price. As I result, if this article proves to be true, I suspect the retail space will become even more toxic, and bombas will become a very regular occurrence on the format due to people not willing to pay $60 in the knowledge that there's no way to claw some of it back. On the plus side, this might mean the format gets a reputation for being very cheap, but on the downside it'll mean more high profile failures and I would not be too surprised if developers and publishers move away from the format as a result.
That all said, I think this rumour is bullshit, since this a blatant violation of the First Sale Doctrine in the US and there are currently efforts to force Steam to enable the resale of Steam games in the EU after the EU Supreme Court ruled that it should be possible for digital content to be resold. If a console manufacturer includes anti-used-game DRM, they're going to get sued for both of their aforementioned reasons.
Of course, we won't know this until the run-up of the console launch, and considering that none of the new gen consoles currently available has this DRM, I'd be doubtful if Microsoft will break rank on this.
tl;dr edition:
I'm concerned about this too - new games sometimes go out of print before I have a chance to get around to buying them - then I just get a used copy but if this happens that won't be possible.
The_Darkest_Red
Member
The RMAH is not a reason to forgive Diablo 3 for anything, it's just one more thing that's wrong with Diablo 3.
RedNumberFive
Banned
Don't be so entitled. Buy a copy for every floor.
Sapphire Dreams
Member
I really hope, I already like it more than the Wii.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
Could you elaborate as to why?
You would just log into your account on that xbox as the game is tied to it. No need to get your knickers in a twist.
Skiesofwonder
Walruses, camels, bears, rabbits, tigers and badgers.
If this happens, both Microsoft and Sony will announce this alongside new "attractive" pricing schedules to soften the blow for us hardcore gamers. Maybe varying price tags for different software, $54.99 starting price tags, and the promise for frequent sales digitally and at retail.
Going by Nintendo's recent stances on DLC, digital, and online as a whole, they will initially refuse to do this.
Going by Nintendo's recent stances on DLC, digital, and online as a whole, they will initially refuse to do this.
Doctor Decimate
Member
i call bullshit based on the required internet connection
Callibretto
Member
Sony's anti used game system according to the rumor and patent is to allow ps4 to recognize used games even when the console is not online, so that leave out the necessity of having an always on connection.
also the rumor mention if the ps4 recognize a used game disc, it will still operate under some limitation, most likely the game goes into demo mode and will prompt you to go online to activate the game, basically, it's an 'online pass' for all games, not just online portion of the game like we currently have.
remember, Sony and game publisher don't really hate the used game sales, but they hate the fact they're not getting any slice of that money. online pass is their way to gain some money from used game sales.
Kill Your Masters
Member
But this kind of restriction is what Kotick and company fap to.
I have a feeling this is for a special model of nextbox and not the only way to fly. Probably a subscription model available in certain territories like NA and UK.
They'd simply kill their sales potential around the world with requirements like being online to function, never mind the loss of used games.
Sony will probably have their own intrusive DRM but I doubt it'll be this flavor, as used games are too big a part of the games industry in Japan.
They'd simply kill their sales potential around the world with requirements like being online to function, never mind the loss of used games.
Sony will probably have their own intrusive DRM but I doubt it'll be this flavor, as used games are too big a part of the games industry in Japan.
The console market has already shown in just the digital ecosystem they are nothing at all like Steam. Many titles stay are fixed prices for far too long, usually at a high range. Steam is far, far, far more frequent in discounting product.
You are delusional to think the console market is going to accurately emulate Steam. Steam can get away with discounts a hell of a lot more than publicly traded corporations who's goal is to make as much money as possible in a single quarter. That type of infrastructure has not accepted or wants to adapt to the exact blueprint Steam does. That's the blessing in disguise for Steam; Valve is a private company, so what they offer can easily be done easier than what Sony or Microsoft can attempt to do.
Felix Lighter
Member
It's a different environment with different expectations in a lot of areas. The second hand market was one of the advantages for consoles and it evaporates with decisions like this.
EdibleExplosives
Member
And what about people who don't have their internet set up on their console? Please explain why you like the idea, I'd love to hear your reasoning.
That makes no sense unless the next-gen consoles sell worse than the Wii U, which would be a hard feat to accomplish. If Sony and Microsoft have it so only new games are bought, that means that publishers get more revenue from those sales.
Don't get me wrong, I think this is going to hurt the industry a lot and will hinder sales, but they're not going to sell less than Wii U.
WiiU won't 'win'. People will just find their fixes elsewhere. Nintendo doesn't cater to that crowd and has never made an attempt to do so.
If these new MS and Sony machines are so 'offensive' to their traditional fan base who says their audience needs to 'update' at all.
It's entirely conceivable that they vote with their feet and just stay with the PS360 at which point the third party developers will have to fall in line.
Tricky I Shadow
Banned
Because I never buy second hand games. It sucks for people that do though.
fastford58
Member
Why is it so hard to believe? If both consoles do it, I'm out for both. Deal with it.
I don't absolutely need to play games and if I support something I don't agree with, companies will just keep pushing to see how much further they can go with BS non features.
If this is true, then this is in direct response to the insanely high costs of developing retail HD console games.
Very few developers actually develop profitable games, as it is, when they have a 150 Million install base to sell too. And those are Generation Seven HD retail game budgets. Can you imagine how expensive Generation Eight games are going to be to make? Some publishers are predicting an average increase of 200% from current HD console game budgets. Now imagine how they are going to make their money back on install bases under 10-15 million.
I think a that the major publishers sat down with MS and Sony, and tried to find a solution to the, out of control, increasing costs of game development. They probably went through all of their options, which probably were;
Raising the price of retail games, yet again, between $70-$80. (They wouldn't sell as many units as consumers wait for cheaper used copies.)
Pulling a corporate American and Outsourcing, in mass, to countries with cheap minimum wages. (Not at all practical.)
Don't fully utilize the features and power of modern architecture. (Which means a barely visible visual leap.)
Reclaim lost revenue by preventing the reselling of their games, from which they do not receive a penny.
They now realize, that a very large portion of gamers, who play their games, choose to buy their games second hand. Season passes, for the online functionality, just aren't enough to make up for the considerably massive amount of revenue lost from used game sales; coupled with the inflating costs of Generation Eight retail games
I feel that they have no choice but to do one of these things above, or something of equivalent impact. Otherwise, we may be privy to the first console game industry crash since 1982. It, very well, could happen, yet have no affect on the mobile games industry.
Very few developers actually develop profitable games, as it is, when they have a 150 Million install base to sell too. And those are Generation Seven HD retail game budgets. Can you imagine how expensive Generation Eight games are going to be to make? Some publishers are predicting an average increase of 200% from current HD console game budgets. Now imagine how they are going to make their money back on install bases under 10-15 million.
I think a that the major publishers sat down with MS and Sony, and tried to find a solution to the, out of control, increasing costs of game development. They probably went through all of their options, which probably were;
Raising the price of retail games, yet again, between $70-$80. (They wouldn't sell as many units as consumers wait for cheaper used copies.)
Pulling a corporate American and Outsourcing, in mass, to countries with cheap minimum wages. (Not at all practical.)
Don't fully utilize the features and power of modern architecture. (Which means a barely visible visual leap.)
Reclaim lost revenue by preventing the reselling of their games, from which they do not receive a penny.
They now realize, that a very large portion of gamers, who play their games, choose to buy their games second hand. Season passes, for the online functionality, just aren't enough to make up for the considerably massive amount of revenue lost from used game sales; coupled with the inflating costs of Generation Eight retail games
I feel that they have no choice but to do one of these things above, or something of equivalent impact. Otherwise, we may be privy to the first console game industry crash since 1982. It, very well, could happen, yet have no affect on the mobile games industry.
Third parties will flock to the WiiU because of used games? lols,consumers currently looking to play 3rd party games will sure as hell not even consider the WiiU.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Always online probably means that XBL is going free, though. That's pretty cool. I mean, if you need to be online to use the console, I can't see them charging to go online with it.
fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
Jacksonlee
Member
ViewtifulJC
Banned
The only part I don't believe is the always-online part
Welcome to the Digital Distribution Future
Welcome to the Digital Distribution Future
Thug Waffle
Member
Always online?
Will not function offline?
No second-hand games?
Damn, and just like that, I'll probably never buy another Microsoft console again. If PS4 goes the same route, then I'll have to re-evaluate this stance or just stick to PC gaming.
Will not function offline?
No second-hand games?
Damn, and just like that, I'll probably never buy another Microsoft console again. If PS4 goes the same route, then I'll have to re-evaluate this stance or just stick to PC gaming.
I know the subtitle says 'always on' but the text says 'internet required' which aren't necessarily the same thing.
I think it means you need to be connected in order to start playing a game for the first time - but I don't think it's an always-on DRM requirement or whatever.
EdibleExplosives
Member
Xbox Live Silver. Don't worry, MS aren't going to stop charging for online any time soon.
rakkadakka
Member
If MS can leverage the lack of second hand games and run Steam like sales then it might not be the end of the world. I sincerely doubt that will happen.
If you use Steam, you're using the inspiration for this move by MS.
dragonflys545
Member
Pays $50 a year, always online... Makes sense LOL!
Always online means always online. Blame it on games like Diablo III.
You don't have to worry though, because I think this whole article is horseshit anyway.
"As long as you don't hurt anyone".... Come on man. Just because you disagree, doesn't mean it isn't the law. Its a murky area admittedly, but "NO BS LICENSING" isn't helping you point either.
3rdamention
Member
I bet this was leaked, on purpose, to gauge public reaction. This would be really easy to cover up, deny, and say "That was a rumor, and it was false, you can play used games!"
However, if this were true, I would assume this is something Microsoft has spent a lot of time and money developing. It would be hard to just scrap it.
There is also the option that all games will have online codes. The codes are really expensive to play a game, (more than $10 like they seem to run now) but of course you get one free when you buy it. So if you want to buy a used game, you know you are going to spend $20 for an online activation code, so you aren't going to pay more than $5 for the used game. This would drive down the cost of used games and drive up revenue for Microsoft selling the codes.This doesn't help if you want to take a game to a friends house. And you must always be online so it can verify your game before loading.
I dont know, I am rambling trying to make sense of it all. Not allowing used games doesn't make sense unless they are copying the Steam Model and they feel not allowing used games will allow them to offer ridiculous gaming values and sales like Steam does.
However, if this were true, I would assume this is something Microsoft has spent a lot of time and money developing. It would be hard to just scrap it.
There is also the option that all games will have online codes. The codes are really expensive to play a game, (more than $10 like they seem to run now) but of course you get one free when you buy it. So if you want to buy a used game, you know you are going to spend $20 for an online activation code, so you aren't going to pay more than $5 for the used game. This would drive down the cost of used games and drive up revenue for Microsoft selling the codes.This doesn't help if you want to take a game to a friends house. And you must always be online so it can verify your game before loading.
I dont know, I am rambling trying to make sense of it all. Not allowing used games doesn't make sense unless they are copying the Steam Model and they feel not allowing used games will allow them to offer ridiculous gaming values and sales like Steam does.
I love how you guys are flipping the fuck out right now. Its very entertaining.
The big problem I see here are with games that don't get a distributed and lost in the past. I don't have a lot of faith in MS doing what Steam has already done all these years, so in the long term, this'll probably be harmful to the industry.
The big problem I see here are with games that don't get a distributed and lost in the past. I don't have a lot of faith in MS doing what Steam has already done all these years, so in the long term, this'll probably be harmful to the industry.