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[Deified Data]

No second-hand I can deal with...I love the games I buy and I don't sell them (though I prefer to pay used price on "riskier" titles...but whatever). I'm not going to buy a console built around the concept of always-online DRM. I have absolutely zero faith in Microsoft's, or anyone for that matter, ability to implement it seamlessly. I'm primarily a single-player gamer, and I'm not going to pay for XBL to maintain DRM servers for games I'm playing by myself.

But yeah, god help Edge if this story turns out to be bogus. Credibility-shattering.

 

[Baconsammy]

We all know Sony is thinking about it. They patented the ability to do it. The question is why. Most likely they heard Microsoft was doing it, so they came up with a way that they could implement it quickly if they deemed Microsoft was "winning" with their strategy. Unlike last gen where they had to quickly copy and tack-on features to their OS, being prepared ahead of time would make it seem like less of a clone than a planned feature. If I had to bet, I'd wager that Sony is going to position themselves as the gamer's game console. Ability to buy/sell/trade games, more power, less reliance on gimmicks. And if that strategy fails them because publishers dick them over in favor of the box that doesn't allow used game sales, here comes the publisher-pleasing used-game-limiting feature that they already devised and patented.

 

[Biggzy]

If that is the case, then I am never reading anything from EDGE ever again. Would be pretty stupid of them to not only hang themselves out like this for Microsoft, but to come right back with a solidifying back-up article to reinforce the previous one.

They are not affiliated with Microsoft, why would they sacrifice themselves and their future credibility in order to make the truth more palatable in the end? It would take some straight-up blind fanboyism to agree to throwing themselves on the fire for Microsoft like that. I would hate to think they would risk their own credibility in such a fashion, but time will indeed tell the tale.

As zomgbbqftw has said, this stuff happens all the time in journalism.

 

[Lambda Pie]

The problem is you are saying you buy ALL games used, so that means you are a gamer that never buys any games new. So you are saying you wouldn't be a gamer AT ALL then if not for used? I find that hard to believe. You bought the console, logic would say you may not buy as many games new as you do used, but you would still buy some games. Which still has its drawbacks for publishers and developers. Extreme hyperbole on both sides of the argument doesn't help either side.

This line of thinking really doesn't help the industry at all. Used as a supplement helps the industry but not putting back into the video game ecosystem does nothing. Trade your games in and buy new once in a while.

@ the bolded:

absolutely. i only game because i managed to make it a fairly inexpensive hobby (25€ is usually the most i pay for a game).

i was forced to pay 60€ for every game i would quit in a heart beat.

 

[Mxrz]

Many GAFers are seriously over reacting over this IMHO. Most main stream gamers and dudebro players won't even care about this always online and no used games.

Edit: if you were blindly following them... does this mean this rumor if true has opened your eyes?

Dudebro is probably the biggest consumer of used games. Its what makes the annual $60 CoD a little more viable.

Even if you want to think Western Pubs would somehow freeze out Sony for not following, there's still all of Japan, Asia, Europe and all the secondary markets. Sony's brand has too much pull for them to be be threatened. If anything, they would need to sweet talk Kaz into agreeing to pass up a very good opportunity.

 

[Etzer]

Not believing this until MS confirms it / reveals the console. This year's E3 will be very memorable, I think.

For those wondering why Edge would sign up for something like this, expect them to get something like the world exclusive reveal/first hands on of the Next Xbox in return.

Oh.

*re-reads*

I see!

Well, I seem to have ruptured a spleen while laughing uncontrollably.

 

[Sickboy007]

I wonder how many billions MS is prepared to pay to the EU this time around...

 

[BruiserBear]

Edge is a reputable site, and if they're saying they trust their sources on this, you can believe there is a reason. They're talking to someone with first hand knowledge of this.

So people can stop passing this off as some random blog report.

 

[Ponn]

If these are all true and happened this year, I wonder how "Brand Loyalty" really affect someone after all this shitstorm. lol

Nintendo would be unaffected. Well, actually they would probably get some loyalists back, including me.

 

[soundahfekz]

So I like to actually have evidence and logic rather than assumptions and speculation and refuse to mindlessly hate without it?

BTW personally I do own a Windows gaming PC and I'm not going to lie I lean towards Microsoft products but I'm definitely interested in the next Playstation.

Going hard in the paint about a website wanting hits (duh) is much more than wanting logic and assumptions. How many quotes did he have of you saying the same thing over and over? don't play that card man.

 

[Fistwell]

What if Sony announces the same thing on February 20th?

Then they can fuck right off as well.

 

[metareferential]

You think a company that exists due to second hand sales will support a console that blocks them?

You think they will encourage sales of a device that destroys their business?

I do not.

And since when is Gamestop the only retailer on earth?

And they're already bleeding to death. Time to ease the pain. xD

And it's funny how Gamestop is often seen as the devil, yet in this case is the last bastion of hope since "but retailers will cut Ms off!!".

 

[FairXchange]

I just love how none of these companies take in consideration the crappy bandwidth limits we get here in Canada.

Somebody's going to have to adjust.

Very true, even if I were on Unlimited download, I still wouldn't be able to use an always online service (as well as full digital distribution, etc) because my highspeed Bell internet cuts out internet for everyone else at home if I download over 1GB files.

I'm looking into whether Teksavvy is the better alternative, because as it stands, I barely take advantage of my PS Plus subscription because all the games are often 10GB or more.

 

[chubigans]

Edge is a reputable site, and if they're saying they trust their sources on this, you can believe there is a reason. They're talking to someone with first hand knowledge of this.

So people can stop passing this off as some random blog report.

I dunno, this just sounds so crazy. EDGE's reputation is really on the line here.

 

[ironcreed]

that of course is what makes it a conspiracy theory at this point. Would they be willing to put their credibility on the line for traffic? In this day and age who knows.

Short term traffic influx, wasteland future after everyone knows they can't be trusted, lol. Not a gamble I would take with my publication, but I guess we will see what happens.

 

[gaming_noob]

Since it is well known that industry insiders read neoGAF, I wonder what they have to say about this. Can Cliffyb or Stinkles chime in?

 

[cbox]

I don't care about that model because I've been a PC gamer my entire life. As long as they supplement their store with steam esque sales I'm down, though that probably won't happen.

I personally never buy used games, maybe on occasion last gen.

 

[PFD]

I just love how none of these companies take in consideration the crappy bandwidth limits we get here in Canada.

Somebody's going to have to adjust.

Change your ISP. I got unlimited 10mbps under $50/month in Montreal last year, and there are better deals now. You should check out the 3rd party ISPs.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

I'm sorry, but every way I look at this is a win for Microsoft.

The race for absolute console sales is over. Noone cares about that anymore. It's about retention. Grabbing and keeping as many dedicated numbers as possible over your suite of hardware.

Microsoft doesn't care about selling you the console so much as they do XBOX Live. 50 dollars a month in perpetuity. 100 percent of dollars being funnelled to developers directly, with no middleman.

This is what Apple does with the iPhone. The hardware itself is just a delivery device for iOS and the apps.

Third parties will be delighted to deal with this, as there is no time limit and lost sales for them. Brilliant idea. People will bitch but it's what people always say you want - 1 unified hardware that runs all their games via an account system.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

yeah but he talks alot of shit. You know who would LOVE that to be true though? EA and Dice. Battlefield on both consoles ---> becomes the bigger game.

Kotick is an idiot though so who knows how much truth there was to that. Personally, I think Activision is a shit stain on the game industry.

 

[Can Crusher]

he idea is that they leak this bad info, but the reality of the situation is not as bad, so people have a "ohh so it's not AS BAD as before". Still bad just not as bad as maybe this article points out, so it makes the bad news more palatable.

So they are lying?

 

[BruiserBear]

I dunno, this just sounds so crazy. EDGE's reputation is really on the line here.

Just to be clear, Edge is not saying they know for a fact Sony isn't also doing this. They're just saying that for now they know Microsoft is.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

The reason I'm saying that it is likely a case of MS preparing the ground is that Edge have really gone to town with this rumour. It means the source must be MS themselves, they would never, ever publish something like this with such confidence if it was just a third party publisher or developer saying they had seen documentation about it.

For Edge to put their credibility on the line like this the source has to be Microsoft or the editor will have to resign. That's why it must be a controlled leak of information.

Sort term traffic influx, wasteland future after everyone knows they can't be trusted, lol. Not a gamble I would take with my publication, but I guess we will see what happens.

So you're saying that if Edge had the world exclusive first ever Next Xbox hands on you wouldn't visit their website or buy their magazine?

Plus Edge can just pass it off as MS changing direction because of the bad reaction to their information leak, so it's not a big deal.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Since it is well known that industry insiders read neoGAF, I wonder what they have to say about this. Can Cliffyb or Stinkles chime in?

I believe Cliff Blezinsky has publicly stated that the way to avoid being a use game purchase or a rental is to offer more value, such as good multiplayer to a game that is considered short or just one and done game people beat and sell.

So they are lying?

yes if that theory is true it means MS and Edge are both lying to everyone for now, lol.

 

[UberTag]

In politics this is known as preparing the ground.

This is a controlled leak of information from MS to Edge, the purpose is to put a ghastly idea out there that people deem unpalatable and then when MS announce much less draconian measures (such as mandatory online passes/activation codes at $10-15 for used games) people are more willing to accept it.

This is certainly a plausible scenario (emphasis on plausible, not likely). My argument is that they would have taken less of a hit just laying out that "less draconian" solution in the first place in the public eye.

The negative press brought on by prepping the ground with this ghastly doomsday scenario... especially on the doorstep of Sony's February 20th reveal... is far more grave than any they would have faced simply by saying "cheapskate gamers who buy second-hand have to pay an extra $10-15"... something we're all by-and-large already on board with.

Plus, if this were an intentional ploy by Microsoft to "prep the ground" they're doing an awful lot of unnecessary damage to GameStop in the process. Is MS willing to face the ramifications for doing that or are they paying off GameStop as well as EDGE?

 

[Oemenia]

Fuck next-gen, go fully retro and play the next-gen games when they are retro without DRM.

 

[hawk2025]

@ the bolded:

absolutely. i only game because i managed to make it a fairly inexpensive hobby (25€ is usually the most i pay for a game).

i was forced to pay 60€ for every game i would quit in a heart beat.

And not a single publisher would care.

Again, you give the industry no money. They want to get rid of you, or change your buying patterns. If the latter is not possible, you are out.

They should be worried about people that mix new and used games when thinking about this, not you.

 

[Nokagi]

Since it is well known that industry insiders read neoGAF, I wonder what they have to say about this. Can Cliffyb or Stinkles chime in?

Pretty sure Cliffy is very anti-used games.

 

[gofreak]

More I think about this, the more complex the potential situation becomes. There's so many levers at play.

I'm not sure the situation is as binary as is being suggested. If it was, I'm not sure it would remain that way for a long period. There's lots of possible middle grounds and compromises vs 'yes' and 'no' to all-out banning of second hand usage.

 

[DopeyFish]

Because of this news, I am buying the new Xbox and only the new Xbox.

I support the developers. I do not support GameStop, or shit second hand stores. I want my money to go to people who deserve it. If I want to buy a game at a cheaper price, I'll wait until its a cheaper price. Simple as that.

If I want to play my game at a friends house, I sign in on live at my friends house.

Last time I purchased a second hand game was for my SNES- and I'll never do it again - not after seeing how difficult developers lives can get, how worn down they become by the chaotic and stressful working conditions. Compared to who? People with some petty desire to make a quick buck back because they didnt have the patience to wait until inevitable price decline?

Seeing guys like Schaefer and others needing kick starter to fund a game because there's too much inherent risk in B games with a dreadful second hand market that cores out any revenue.

I am not greedy, unlike the circus of people which have their own petty goals in mind. Using new releases as a fake rental? Fuck that. The second that goes back to the game store, that rips $40-50 right out of developers pockets- developers and publishers closing left and right? Who fucking cares? I gots me my monies! We must look at the reasons for this! (Derp, second hand sales IS the reason)

What an utter disgrace the gaming community is. No wonder its looked upon like its an irrelevant art form, a children's toy... The majority of so-called gamers are children.

iOS locks you in? No problem!
Steam locks you in? No problem!
XBLA and PSN locks you in? No problem!
Durango locks you in? Omg end of world cry piss and moan

Fucking hypocritical.

I want my favorite developers to stay strong forever, whatever of them are left... I want my favorite games to be made, not just the flavor of the moment- rehash rehash rehash.

But no! I must be able to recoup my monies! Who cares about the state of our hobby! I want my monies!

@ the bolded:

absolutely. i only game because i managed to make it a fairly inexpensive hobby (25€ is usually the most i pay for a game).

i was forced to pay 60€ for every game i would quit in a heart beat.

The price isn't going to magically stop dropping, FYI they will still lower prices like they always have

 

[DRock]

Being a console warrior is a hard and creative work.

I can live with not used games part but always online is such a bad idea. It is almost debilitating.

I'm hoping they mean always online in the sense that you need to be online to activate new games. They better have an offline mode so that you can play games already downloaded and installed.

I don't sell my games as it is so this doesn't bother me too much, but needing to be online to play would be some bullshit.

 

[nickp]

I think this thread should be titled "What an always-on Xbox could mean for PlayStation 4."

This is a speculative discussion about unannounced consoles. There's a lot of extreme reaction going on here and we don't even know what we're actually talking about. Even if the rumor is true, we then have no idea what the nature of the situation is until Microsoft announces it to the public.

With brick-and-mortar retail on the way out, the idea of an always-online system that mitigates second-hand sales is not a shocking one. Steam has proven that millions of gamers have no problem giving up physical ownership and resale privileges if provided enough value in return. Steam offers easy access, [mostly] painless updates, wallet-crushing sales, cloud saving, voting for what games you can buy, easy ways to connect with friends, free voice chat and more still.

Perhaps most important of all is the ability to easily download free mods and premium items created by the community for some of the most popular games. Some community members are making six figures a year just from their Steam Workshop items. This ability for talented community members to contribute back into the system is incredibly valuable.

That's a lot of value in exchange for physical ownership and resale privileges. Over 50 million gamers seem to agree. That just leaves one question: What value can Microsoft provide?

 

[sp3000]

Only problem for Sony is that publishers will flock to the Xbox for games. PS4 will have a huge amount of trouble in getting third party support.

 

[gururoji]

Unless Xbox is also copying Steam prices then the Steam comparisons have to stop.

Quoting for visibility. This is a crucial point and it needs more attention. Not saying everyone views things like I do, but I for one wouldn't care about the no-resale thing if the games were far cheaper. I don't care that my XBLA purchases don't have sale value because I paid $20 max for them (and because they all have demos so I knew what I was getting into). I will almost never buy a $60 game if I can't sell it, and especially not if there's no demo for it.

 

[Ponn]

@ the bolded:

absolutely. i only game because i managed to make it a fairly inexpensive hobby (25€ is usually the most i pay for a game).

i was forced to pay 60€ for every game i would quit in a heart beat.

New games drop to that price point eventually so I still don't believe you would stop being a gamer all together if used was completely factored out on price alone. I have bought used in the past but I still want to inject money into the industry or it will fail eventually, just the way economy works. I would be more concerned about not being able to sell or trade in my games to supplement my purchases.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

More I think about this, the more complex the potential situation becomes. There's so many levers at play.

I'm not sure the situation is as binary as is being suggested. If it was, I'm not sure it would remain that way for a long period. There's lots of possible middle grounds and compromises vs 'yes' and 'no' to all-out banning of second hand usage.

How do you mean? The only way I see it as being binary is if they are not convinced of the direction. MS is in the position with both marketshare and influence to pioneer this in the console space.

 

[Takuya]

Only problem for Sony is that publishers will flock to the Xbox for games. PS4 will have a huge amount of trouble in getting third party support.

They will flock to the platform with the most support, regardless.

 

[ironcreed]

As zomgbbqftw has said, this stuff happens all the time in journalism.

Of course it does, FUD is everywhere. But this is pretty significant news, which they even immediately wrote a solidifying back-up for. I don't think a publication like EDGE is going to spread that much FUD and then immediately back it up. This is not some Sony Defense Force blog we are talking about, lol.

 

[PhatSaqs]

More I think about this, the more complex the potential situation becomes. There's so many levers at play.

I'm not sure the situation is as binary as is being suggested. If it was, I'm not sure it would remain that way for a long period. There's lots of possible middle grounds and compromises vs 'yes' and 'no' to all-out banning of second hand usage.

Agreed. Way too many potential complexities for people to be so cut and dry about it right now.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

I'm with i-Lo. To me the disappointing news about all this isn't the used game thing, personally it doesn't mean much to me but if that's true then that means the always online thing is probably true...and that is just....the worst. It NEVER works out well.

 

[TheOddOne]

Leaks have been fishy for a while now:
- Initial DF/Eurogamer article goes into full detail about the next PS4. Xbox gets mentioned but no follow up article about that;
- Nvidia developer goes into great detail about the DF/Eurogamer article, praises the PS4 hardware but has less kind words about the next Xbox;
- Durango specs released, with some interesting tidbits still deemed to be "incomplete";
- Orbis Roadmap and types releases, charting in bizarre detail how everything will go;
- Poll is setup to ask to people what they want to know about the PS4;
- We get the PS4 unveiled article, what makes it weird is that moments after it is updated because of CPU confusion;
- Sony announces the February 20 event.

Bottom line is this all feel like the leaks are very controlled. Like it feels all too convenient leading up to the Feb event.

Maybe I’m reading too much into this.

 

[Mikey Jr.]

If MS stops used games, Sony has to as well.

Yeah, the consumers would be pissed at Sony, but the publishers/developers would LOVE it. Maybe they would love it so much that they would not release games on Sony's system? Or they would eventually, but a few weeks/months later?

 

[MikeE21286]

What’s trickier for Microsoft is in explaining its decision when faced with Sony’s plans for the PlayStation 4. Walk into a game retailer (should you be able to find one by the time these consoles arrive) and the choice could be simple: PlayStation 4 is more powerful, and plays second-hand games.

If PS4 allows used games...

 

[sp3000]

They will flock to the platform with the most support, regardless.

No, they will flock to the platform that provides them with the most revenue. If used game sales are cutting significantly into profits, then it's simply a matter of the math working out which determines if a game should be sold on that system.

 

[Mononoke]

This is certainly a plausible scenario (emphasis on plausible, not likely). My argument is that they would have taken less of a hit just laying out that "less draconian" solution in the first place in the public eye.

The negative press brought on by prepping the ground with this ghastly doomsday scenario... especially on the doorstep of Sony's February 20th reveal... is far more grave than any they would have faced simply by saying "cheapskate gamers who buy second-hand have to pay an extra $10-15"... something we're all by-and-large already on board with.

Plus, if this were an intentional ploy by Microsoft to "prep the ground" they're doing an awful lot of unnecessary damage to GameStop in the process. Is MS willing to face the ramifications for doing that or are they paying off GameStop as well as EDGE?

What if both Sony and MS were going to do this anyways? For instance, what if MS knows that if they do this, Sony HAS to follow suit. Or what if MS knew Sony was going to do this anyways (let's say the patents Sony filed were actually going to be used).

By MS leaking this info, it then puts a lot of negativity around Sony's press release, especially if it forces Sony to talk about this.

Of course, I'm going under the assumption that - this new system is inevitable. That MS has already decided on it along w/ publishers etc. So that would be the purpose of this kind of leak. That it was going to get out anyways, so might as well have it come out before Sony's conference. Not like Sony can NOT go with this (as others have pointed out, publishers would basically force Sony to also implement this, they weren't already planning on doing so).

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

No, they will flock to the platform that provides them with the most revenue. If used game sales are cutting significantly into profits, then it's simply a matter of the math working out which determines if a game should be sold on that system.

ignoring a console with as big a base as PS4 will likely have is a huge loss of potential revenue. More than you would get from one console with no used game sales. By far.

 

[alphaNoid]

Could this requirement be in place for the cloud-console hybrid processing Microsoft is planning for 2015?

This is what I was thinking, perhaps his only affects the Xbox TV console they are rumored to be launching alongside Durango. Maybe that is an always on, digital only box.

Time will tell

 

[MikeE21286]

No, they will flock to the platform that provides them with the most revenue. If used game sales are cutting significantly into profits, then it's simply a matter of the math working out which determines if a game should be sold on that system.

But if nobody buys their console....

 

[Can Crusher]

It does make sense what gst said.

If MS does this because Publishers want it, Sony will have to follow suit or they get Dreamcasted.

I hope the whole conspiracy theory is right, this is one shitty future for gaming I won't have the time for.

 

[btkadams]

Because of this news, I am buying the new Xbox and only the new Xbox.

I support the developers. I do not support GameStop, or shit second hand stores. I want my money to go to people who deserve it. If I want to buy a game at a cheaper price, I'll wait until its a cheaper price. Simple as that.

If I want to play my game at a friends house, I sign in on live at my friends house.

Last time I purchased a second hand game was for my SNES- and I'll never do it again - not after seeing how difficult developers lives can get, how worn down they become by the chaotic and stressful working conditions. Compared to who? People with some petty desire to make a quick buck back because they didnt have the patience to wait until inevitable price decline?

Seeing guys like Schaefer and others needing kick starter to fund a game because there's too much inherent risk in B games with a dreadful second hand market that cores out any revenue.

I am not greedy, unlike the circus of people which have their own petty goals in mind. Using new releases as a fake rental? Fuck that. The second that goes back to the game store, that rips $40-50 right out of developers pockets- developers and publishers closing left and right? Who fucking cares? I gots me my monies! We must look at the reasons for this! (Derp, second hand sales IS the reason)

What an utter disgrace the gaming community is. No wonder its looked upon like its an irrelevant art form, a children's toy... The majority of so-called gamers are children.

iOS locks you in? No problem!
Steam locks you in? No problem!
XBLA and PSN locks you in? No problem!
Durango locks you in? Omg end of world cry piss and moan

Fucking hypocritical.

I want my favorite developers to stay strong forever, whatever of them are left... I want my favorite games to be made, not just the flavor of the moment- rehash rehash rehash.

But no! I must be able to recoup my monies! Who cares about the state of our hobby! I want my monies!

i'm pissed off because of the always-online portion. my internet connection isn't always working and the psn hack lasted a month...i doubt a failure that large will happen again, but i'd like to be able to play my games when i want to. what wil happen when microsoft shuts down the online service for the 720 (when a successor is out)? will people not be able to play games on it anymore? this is my issue. i don't really care that much about anti-used games since i buy new all the time.