RPGCrazied
Member
I don't know. Seems like a female cloud, while thats not a bad thing, I don't think it turned out that way. I much prefer the character Noel. Him and Sazh are the best characters from the XIII universe.
Lightning - "Why the hate?"
- Thread starter TheFLYINGManga_Ka
- Start date
toastyToast
Member
She's a flat character in a boring ass world (unless you read the codecs lol). I bought shitty ass XIII day one on good faith. Faith that an FF game following XII couldn't actually be bad.
Never again
Never again
TacticalFox88
Banned
The only thing Lightning has going for her, really, is that's she mildly attractive to hot, depending on the costume, camera angle, etc.
As a character? Atrocious.
As a character? Atrocious.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Honestly, in the grand scheme, almost all of FF's characters are terrible or have terrible arcs. There's three chars I've seen have great development in Square games, Celes, Delita, and Zack. If you count side chars, then Seifer.
Cloud's development is as poor as Lightning's in other words?
Yes.
Devilgunman
Member
Her character is so bland and stories around her are uninteresting so after I finish the game there is nothing memorable at all. I personally think even Ashe from FFXII is more interesting than Lightning.
badcrumble
Member
I think there wouldn't be nearly so much Lightning hate if FFXIII hadn't inexplicably gotten so many unneeded sequels and tie-ins. The hate is directed at Lightning because Toriyama acts like everyone loves her when she's actually fairly unremarkable.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Cloud is probably the worst FF protag ever. Especially once you really flesh out his backstory and Zack's. He's daft.
what if lighting looked like this op
would you still like her
Am I messed up since I actually like that shopped screenshot? Shepard looks like a 80's hair metal dude and Final Fantasy with the Mass Effect dialog wheel would kick ass.
That's precisely when his character got actually interesting and meaningful to me, but to each their own I guess.
28 Posts Later
Member
I think she's a quite well designed, but ultimately a horribly written character [at least in XIII, I haven't played the sequel]. Melodramatic dialogue with little purpose other than to give her the illusion of depth. The same is true of most characters in XIII, but because she's such a bland character [not to mention the face of the XIII franchise] it's more difficult to ignore.
Will make you an avatar for the award.
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
It's fine :3 You can do it!
Yea, I know it has nothing to do with character development or how they relate to the story, but I just feel the need to point out those "facts" every time a Lightning discussion is started.
Eh, I liked Lightning. Other than her appearance I liked that she was the badass of the group. Every RPG got them, she's FFXIII's badass. Her interactions with Hope was pretty good too.
Some people like characters because of their appearance. I like Nowi, Lucina, and Tharja in FE Awakening primarily because of their appearance.
Some people like characters because of their appearance. I like Nowi, Lucina, and Tharja in FE Awakening primarily because of their appearance.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
How.. he's even more meaningless at that point. You can't even appreciate the depth of his relationship to Aerith without knowing Zack's arc. Dude is just a Crono clone, except Crono actually has character development through a few facial gestures.
tiggerkiddo
Member
I thought Fang did a better job of that. And she was a bit less obnoxious.
Beelzeboss
Member
You guys are throwing Cloud under the bus and I'm not liking it one bit.
He's not that bad and I don't even really like FF7
He's not that bad and I don't even really like FF7
BassForever
Member
No problem with the character I feel she works great in Dissidia 012, it's the writing of XIII that's the problem
This is where your post falls apart. You should practice not replying like a child, in general.
Fair enough.
That's fine. I have no problem with that, but in a discussion about why a character is good and what makes them good, appearance is an absolute non-factor.
I didn't mind Lightning in XIII. Fang and Vanille were more interesting, but Lighting was mostly palatable.
But since then, she's morphed more and more into Squall. I can not stand mean, drab, grouchy characters, so she's really lost any sort of appeal to me. Sareh is actually quite a bit more likable and relatable.
But since then, she's morphed more and more into Squall. I can not stand mean, drab, grouchy characters, so she's really lost any sort of appeal to me. Sareh is actually quite a bit more likable and relatable.
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
Messi's taken over that role.
Not a lot of people have said they outright hated her in here.
A lot of people have said, "I like Lightning's design, but I really dislike her _______".
So okay, for starters here's why I liked Lightning. She was angry, and sucker punched Snow, who I hated instantly. So she was endeared to me for just being on full rage mode, which was nice. But as of XIII-2, she isn't that anymore at all. The anger is completely taken out of her and so she is, as people have said, bland.
But here is why people don't like her:
FFXIII sucked. It really did. It was a waste of great potential. The battle system was a good start toward being fun, and the world was very pretty, but there was nothing to do except march straight to the end. There were hunts, sure, but no sidequests, no minigames, no extra dungeons, no turning left, right, or back. Just forward, always forward.
To top that off, the plot was easily the worst Final Fantasy plot prior to XIII-2. It, like the gameplay, was a waste of potential. Everyone, Snow included, had the potential to be a compelling interesting character. The idea of six losers having to band together to fight a common curse and save the world sounds nice on paper. XIII's plot, typed up on internet forums can sound nice, but its execution left much to be desired.
Now, how does all this fall on poor Claire's head? Well, Lightning has been made into the figurehead for this game. As the facewoman for the game that is so hated, the negative feelings related to how disappointing XIII was (and it was, considering how hyped we all were for it) become attached to her. She's on the cover of both games, Square ASKED US HOW WE FELT ABOUT HER IN A POLL, Toriyama touted her as the only female protagonist of an FF (sleighting Yuna and Terra in the process), and she has been receiving the kind of publicity usually reserved for people like Mario, who you know, have been around long enough to deserve the hype.
It shouldn't be hard to anyone to see why Lightning gets so much hate these days. She's become the symbol of XIII, and XIII the symbol of what's gone wrong in SE in turn. XIII sucked and Square has continued to act as if it was everything it was supposed to be. There's nothing wrong with liking Lightning. As she was in XIII I liked her, too, but people are upset because she's everywhere now and there's no good reason.
I wish I could find the post where I had explained this better.
But here is why people don't like her:
FFXIII sucked. It really did. It was a waste of great potential. The battle system was a good start toward being fun, and the world was very pretty, but there was nothing to do except march straight to the end. There were hunts, sure, but no sidequests, no minigames, no extra dungeons, no turning left, right, or back. Just forward, always forward.
To top that off, the plot was easily the worst Final Fantasy plot prior to XIII-2. It, like the gameplay, was a waste of potential. Everyone, Snow included, had the potential to be a compelling interesting character. The idea of six losers having to band together to fight a common curse and save the world sounds nice on paper. XIII's plot, typed up on internet forums can sound nice, but its execution left much to be desired.
Now, how does all this fall on poor Claire's head? Well, Lightning has been made into the figurehead for this game. As the facewoman for the game that is so hated, the negative feelings related to how disappointing XIII was (and it was, considering how hyped we all were for it) become attached to her. She's on the cover of both games, Square ASKED US HOW WE FELT ABOUT HER IN A POLL, Toriyama touted her as the only female protagonist of an FF (sleighting Yuna and Terra in the process), and she has been receiving the kind of publicity usually reserved for people like Mario, who you know, have been around long enough to deserve the hype.
It shouldn't be hard to anyone to see why Lightning gets so much hate these days. She's become the symbol of XIII, and XIII the symbol of what's gone wrong in SE in turn. XIII sucked and Square has continued to act as if it was everything it was supposed to be. There's nothing wrong with liking Lightning. As she was in XIII I liked her, too, but people are upset because she's everywhere now and there's no good reason.
I wish I could find the post where I had explained this better.
Her design is pretty decent(at least in FFXIII) , but Toriyama i guess wanted to give her a strong personality. But given his talents as a writer, its no surprise we got a incredibly boring and bland character. It doesn't help that SquareEnix keeps pushing her as being amazing, which honestly only fuels more hate.
Consensus is, while FFXIII is melodrama, the rest of the series is drama. Protagonists have actual reasons to feel doomed and gloomed in said games; for FFXIII tho, they expected you to swallow their pathos while plugging your nose altogether so that you can cry about it. Sorry for the reference to that one serbian movie (careful if you resort to Google to decipher that part, it's extremely NSFW), but the representation seems accurate still.
badcrumble
Member
lol oh my godMy birthday cake in 2009.
Whenever Fang wasn't with Vanille she was kind of annoying to me. Dunno why for some reason. Still like her though.
I dont remember Cloud getting shit on this much by FF fans when I was younger.
I like Cloud personally. One of my favorite FF protagonists along with Cecil, Terra, Yuna and Lightning.
I stopped using her in my avatar because I was getting annoyed of being avatar quoted. -_- Iksel will continue reigning my account at least until a new FF is out (I think
).My birthday cake in 2009.
Wow. You are amazing Yoshi.
Cloud's not great, but he was in the same game as Sephiroth and Aeris dying so him being bland and semi-lame didn't drag things down. And I never really felt like Square was trying to convince me Cloud was this revolutionary character that must not be forgotten and needs sequels. SE is trying really, really hard to make Lightning happen, and it's not going to happen.
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
Characters designed by Nomura deserves to be thrown under the bus.
In all seriousness though, its not like Cloud really had a personality in 7 anyways. Everyone else did but him.
People need to stop saying this.
That's not really true. She started cold, selfish and uncaring to everyone except Sarah and developed into a decent character. Sure her writing could have been better but that applies to Vanille, Snow, Sazh, especially Hope and some of Fang as well.
djplaeskool
Member
Tearing of robes and gnashing of teeth.
I agree with Corvo.
It's less Lightning as a character, and more Lightning as a representative of a divisive set of games.
Shake my head at all this Cloud hate. People have totally forgotten what Cloud is like in FF7. He's CLOUD, the guy who rides motorcycles, snowboards, races chocobos, and ruins plays. He starts out arrogant, but quickly moves into being a chill, if self-deprecating guy. People like to say he's Zack, except . . . even in the opening minutes of VII he's nothing like Zack. He's very much his own guy.
SMH at these people who base what they know of FF on what they learned in KH.
SMH at these people who base what they know of FF on what they learned in KH.
tiggerkiddo
Member
Hey hey, he started off on a good foot until his belt fetish took hold.
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
I liked FF7 Cloud because he made me laugh at times. Even after he had his character revelation, he was still kinda funny, and the conversations in the airship kind of humanized him a little (ie: the chat he had about motion sickness with Yuffie).
I disliked Advent Children/KH Cloud because he made me feel bored. It's like they sucked out everything I liked about him.
Weirder things from Square has happened. I know they are supposed to be separate but whats to stop Wada from making Nomura add a Lightning cameo to it or Nomura doing it himself after all these years?
EDIT: Why is it whenever I post my post looks all lime green-ish?
They still call her Lightning. Which is dumb. The whole reasoning behind her name change is just stupid.