Lightning - "Why the hate?"
- Thread starter TheFLYINGManga_Ka
- Start date
Tell me how relevant Lightning is again when she only got dragged into the plot of FF13 because her sister accidentally stumbled into a ruin.
FF10 is Tidus's story, sure, but it is a story following Yuna's pilgrimage. 10-2 focuses on how Yuna deals with a world after the big bad has gone away. In both 10 and 10-2, Yuna is easily a central, active, 'relevant' character.
Pretty sure I mentioned this on the comparison b/w Cloud and Lightning before but I'll reiterate. Cloud gets actual character development and Lightning doesn't. In addition, Lightning is not a cool character whereas Cloud is. I mean... are you going to like someone with depth or someone completely devoid of it.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Not really, Cloud after recovering his real personality is quite different. For example, he admits feeling sick when travelling on planes, ships, etc... (like the soldier, Cloud, in the Nibelheim flasback) something he dosn't have while being "Zack".
I know, I've understood that Cloud was schizophrenic for a great part of the game. I just don't get where worldrevolution is coming from when he claims FFVII's plot has no worth as a stand-alone.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
All of that is exactly the point of 7. The resolution of that. It's like a weird Star Wars original/prequel trilogy type thing. You get the end of Vader first, but seeing how he got there is the important part. Anyway, the usual crew is here and I'm no match for them. See you in the 13-3 OT!
The expansion on anything in that game is atrocious.
Zack was much better left off in a secret scene.
Derp, sorry. Even then, there can only be one female in that game.
I dunno, I think Lightning does get SOME character development. It's just all related to SNOW. As in, she goes from socking Snow every two seconds to tolerating his presence.
Much as I hate Snow, I actually think he had better chemistry (if making toxic chemicals counts as chemistry) with Lightning than Serah. Just as Noel had better with Serah than Snow did and better than he did with Yuel.
Didn't work for Type 0.
The great irony is that Lightning is a better character outside of XIII than in it.
I don't like characters just because they are sexually attractive.
I disagree. While Crisis Core had many characters that didn't get ANY development at all or lacked personality altogether, save Genesis, Zack was portrayed as a cool guy trying to get somewhere in life. Additionally, you get to see him develop over time from a rookie into a battle-hardened soldier. Everything else is shoehorned lol.
What kind of delusion? Yuna is awesome and was the lead of her own game well before Lightning was a twinkle in Toriyama's eye.
The Mango Sentinel
Member
Lighting is just a boring character. Most of the FF main characters are boring as fuck. I'm surprised Zidane hasn't been mentioned more. He's one of the only main characters that wasn't a total drag. Too bad FF9 is one of my least favorite FF's. It seems like everyone else enjoyed it though. Tidus was ok....but....I don't even know what to say. He was just ok. Yuna as a main character was pretty boss though. What a cheesy ass game.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
I'm glad I'm not the only one.
But Lightning had way better chemestry with Hope, both characters evolved together in XIII.
Nothing to be passive-aggressive for. Almost makes me regret to take your defense the other day, when I pulled the whole "Kagarmi" pun.
The Mana Legend
Banned
Anyone find it weird that in FFXIII-2, Serah was way more obsessed with Lightning than she was with her fucking husband, Snow?
It's like Toriyama was trying to live through Serah.
It's like Toriyama was trying to live through Serah.
Anyone would be lucky to be Noel's partner. Seriously.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
toddhunter
Member
It made perfect sense to me. Her marrying Snow in the first place was the strange/creepy bit.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Better than Snow:
Serah:"Hey! this is the guy I'm gonna marry even if he just went to have some kind of adventure and leave me alone for 2 years!"
Snow:"Sorry babe, that's on hold, I gotta try and be the hero again!"
Ugh, no. Lightning's only good pairing is with Firion. In one scene in Dissidia she had better romance than with any character in XIII. Much as I think Misato is best girl, I don't think Lightning has a Misato thing going on with Hope's Shinji.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
It's not really Snow's fault though. It's the writer. Some things the character's do make no sense.
dramatis is spot-on; FFXIII was Vanille's story. Fang's role was mostly to be her
boyfriend.
There's a whole host of reasons why Lightning is disliked by so many. The character herself fails to be particularly interesting or entertaining. The game she debuted in is awful. The FFXIII games have become the "Lightning Saga" so she represents the weak XIII games. Square-Enix have made a special effort in giving Lightning exposure levels reserved to folks like Cloud, Mario, Master Chief in making her a mascot for the series.
They've made her a damn lightning rod for people disappointed or fed up with Square-Enix's output this generation. It doesn't help that you have the director/writer making matters worse.
They've made her a damn lightning rod for people disappointed or fed up with Square-Enix's output this generation. It doesn't help that you have the director/writer making matters worse.
^^ Wow, use a quote there. It's too big.
Have you seen that haircut? It's atrocious! Not fitting for a Goddess like Lightning.
Didn't work for Type 0.
Have you seen that haircut? It's atrocious! Not fitting for a Goddess like Lightning.
It's hard to deny the ending wasn't sub-par, but I can understand people disliking the rest, even though I've enjoyed it myself.
So like... the entirety of XIII?
Wait... What? The excellent was nowhere near subpar. To say subpar I think is a great disservice.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Yep.
And don't forget NORA.
The name of Hope's mom is Nora.
The mercenary band is known as N.O.R.A.
And Hope's revenge plan to kill Snow is called Operation Nora.
encephalon
Member
After replaying FFX, I was left with the impression that Yuna was the most realistic, well thought out FF character to date ...
But Seven is BEST Lightning. And also that haircut is the same one Lightning has.
Noel would be the most recent one that's realistic to a degree.
SixMachine
Member
When I first played ff7 I liked Cloud. It think it was because when I read the dialog in my head I gave him a confident voice. After he went through his coma and breakdown episode I thought he became assured of himself and had Tifa alongside him, where before it was him projecting Zack and had Aeris. Then when the anthology stuff came out and the movie, they made him a wet noodle and took away the confidence from him. It's like they read some bad fanfiction and tried to make him have the emotions of a kicked puppy to get sympathy points.
I think the 2nd example of this kind of phenomenon is with Samus in Other M. Even in Fusion people felt that she was a confident lone wolf. Then the writer decided to mess with a perception people had already made up on their own.
I think the 2nd example of this kind of phenomenon is with Samus in Other M. Even in Fusion people felt that she was a confident lone wolf. Then the writer decided to mess with a perception people had already made up on their own.
Getting tired (+2:35 AM here). I meant "wasn't sub-par". Stealth-edited, thanks.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
I think GILGAMESH is the best FF character in all aspects, especially after Type 0.
And throws all the old FFV theories out the window and opens up several new interesting ones.
But I really liked Zidane as a character I must say.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Well but Dissidia plots is just fanfic material...also I didn't play them. And well Hope isn't as lame (and underaged) as Shinji anymore!
So... now we're debating the legitimacy of two fanfic tales. right?
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Well considering Toriyama worked on the Dissidia scenario...
Well, the thing is Lightning was missing and all, so Serah being obsessed with finding her isn't that unbelievable. It's her sister after all. Snow was just "there", until he went off and started fighting Caius in his own way.
You're dead to me. I can't believe you just insulted her.
Ghost_Protocol
Member
Why the hate? Because the kind of character she represents is totally indicative of all that is wrong with FF (and a lot of other JRPGs & anime) today. All style. Zero substance. The same overly melodramatic, angsty, shallow, generic "animu" tropes that have been run into the ground repeatedly by the genre. God, we JUST had an incredibly well written JRPG starring an entire cast of teenagers that proved that it IS possible to sidestep every single one of those awful stereotypes and tell a great story in the process (Persona 4), but FFXIII just went ahead and jumped headfirst right into the pit again.
What's even more upsetting though is that the previous game in the same series had a great cast of well written, mature, intelligent, nuanced, and respectable characters that didn't appeal to terrible anime stereotypes and treat the player like an idiot. Heroes and villains alike. They didn't throw temper tantrums and whine about their lives in every other cutscene. It's a shame that somehow that those characters managed to worm their way into 3 games while characters like Baasch, Gabranth, Vossler, Balthier, & Reddas are totally forgotten.
Maybe they should have spent more time staring off into the distance and soliloquizing.
What's even more upsetting though is that the previous game in the same series had a great cast of well written, mature, intelligent, nuanced, and respectable characters that didn't appeal to terrible anime stereotypes and treat the player like an idiot. Heroes and villains alike. They didn't throw temper tantrums and whine about their lives in every other cutscene. It's a shame that somehow that those characters managed to worm their way into 3 games while characters like Baasch, Gabranth, Vossler, Balthier, & Reddas are totally forgotten.
Maybe they should have spent more time staring off into the distance and soliloquizing.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Cloud is to terrible in Dissidia (watched some cutscenes) to allow that...but he's also terrible in AC/KH/KH2 and well...in everything since FF VII.
tiggerkiddo
Member
Noel is one of my favorite main protagonists, can't believe Squeenix made him. Never thought they had it in them as they are now.
What kind of delusion? Yuna is awesome and was the lead of her own game well before Lightning was a twinkle in Toriyama's eye.
Well, Lightning will be remembered as the goddess who ruled Valhalla, in the role of the main protagonist. While Yawna in her first attempt to shine, was more of a pop star (not considering X because she wasnt really the protagonist, more of a sidekick). Seems really different to me, in relevancy, that is. Also search for fan appreciation over the internet, you will find a clear winner. Also see the OFFICIAL pool made by Square Enix in Japan, and see the winner. The receipts are all over the place, you guys are just blind to it.
Insulted who? :c
Im just saying they are not as relevant as Lightning. It doesnt mean I hate her. I like Yawna, in all her weirdness, but when compared to Lightning she is just... yeah.
Just saying, Lightning had such good chemistry with Kain that they put him in XIII-2.
Well, Lightning will be remembered as the goddess who ruled Valhalla, in the role of the main protagonist. While Yawna in her first attempt to shine, was more of a pop star (not considering X because she wasnt really the protagonist, more of a sidekick). Seems really different to me, in relevancy, that is. Also search for fan appreciation over the internet, you will find a clear winner. Also see the OFFICIAL pool made by Square Enix in Japan, and see the winner. The receipts are all over the place, you guys are just blind to it.
Why does Lightning get to be remembered by the role in which she was not protagonist, but Yuna does not? Why does XIII-2 count for Lightning, but X does not count for Yuna?
Lightning was just a cop in XIII, and I'd rather remember her as such than whatever that travesty of a plot made her out to be in XIII-2.
Freezasaurus
Member
I don't really get all the Lightning hate. Yeah, she's a bit on the bland side, but I started liking her more once they tossed that suit of armor on her in XIII-2. Hopefully Lightning Returns won't be terrible.
gamergirly
Member
I don't think it's any character (type) in FF13 that's the problem. All of them could succeed given a great plot and story piece. I just think that Square Enix forgot about the fanbase and steered the game too far away from any perception of the previous goodness of the franchise. Look at what happened with DMC for example. If they wanted to experiment, they should have created a no-name jrpg and let FF13 continue the tradition. I hope that FF15 and/or Versus don't end up taking the same path....