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[SerOnionKnight]

Not sure if the Wii U is doomed or gonna die or what, but I'm getting that "Dreamcast" feeling. Probably best to jump on the PS4 or next Xbox than trying to wait out the situation on the Wii U. Either way, I'll still buy games for it and all that, but I can't help but feel like Nintendo really needs to do something about this situation.

Know what the Dreamcast didn't have? Nintendo making games for it. There is not a single franchise Sega had aside from Sonic that has even remotely the same following as Nintendo's franchises. New 3D mario, Zelda, and Smash Bros. is going to a huge boost.

Wii U is going to be in a significantly better position once the PS4 releases and it goes through the 'no games' phase, the same thing people are complaining about the Wii U now. Not to mention by the time PS4 finally launches Nintendo will be in a good position to make an even larger price difference between the two consoles by cutting cost.

All I see in this thread is a bunch of butt hurt by people tearing down the Wii U and trying to build up the PS4. 95% of you have probably never even tried a Wii U. And to top it off, you people must not have been watching the same stream I was last night because that was underwhelming. They don't even have a console to show at this point.

 

[jmls1121]

Dismissing every PS4/720 game as same old same old while listing 20 year old Nintendo franchises as a reason to be excited about the Wii U, for one. Makes it hard to take them seriously.

Nintendo innovates with their franchises.

Killzone looks like the same exact game as all the others with slightly prettier graphics. After 10 minutes of "wow" you will realize you are playing the same old boring corridor shooter. My opinion of course.

 

[Alienous]

I have no interest in a WiiU, and the PS4 solidifies that notion.

Mario, Zelda ... I've played them. I've played most all of them. I got the Wii, and the only games I played on that were SMG1, SMG2, NSMB Wii, Mario Kart Wii, Twilight Princess Wii, Skyward Sword, Super Smash Bros Brawl, Donkey Kong Country Returns and Goldeneye. Of those games I only sincerely enjoyed 3.

The WiiU will have the same problems. They'll have a new Smash Brothers, a new Mario Kart, a new Zelda game, and a new Super Mario game. If I believed that they would make a new Star Fox game, or a new F-Zero, then the console would be more appealing. Otherwise, I more interested in the suprises that are certainly in store for the PS4.

 

[gcubed]

depends on the price of the ps4. Such a stark contrast though between a nintendo reveal and a sony reveal

 

[Brinbe]

Nintendo's gonna do just fine with their first party offerings and over in Japan. But they're not reaching the heights of the Wii ever again. Business as usual like with the 64/Gamecube.

 

[Kai Dracon]

Nothing has changed really. It should have been expected that PS4 and (eventually) Xbox 720 reveals would be impressive. This is why Nintendo was on that "one year timer" to do something with Wii U before the other consoles launched.

Due to various problems that appear to have gotten in the way, they haven't established any momentum to take advantage of that head start and build their own quadrant of the market with Wii U. That's where they're in trouble, but this is not a new prediction which has changed due to finally seeing some tech demos for PS4.

Everyone is just flush with hype right now due to actually seeing the Sony event, but Nintendo's in the same shape as yesterday morning. (Not saying it's GOOD shape, but you get the idea.)

Nintendo innovates with their franchises.

Killzone looks like the same exact game as all the others with slightly prettier graphics. After 10 minutes of "wow" you will realize you are playing the same old boring corridor shooter. My opinion of course.

The truth of the matter is that a large portion of the audience comes for the production values. Same reason popcorn movies are blockbusters every summer - even if they're basically the same movies made over and over again.

Nintendo could make the most original and innovative game ever made, but if it starred Mario, a great many people would indeed say "that's a 20 year old game I already played."

Note I am not saying Nintendo shouldn't make new characters or worlds. This is more a point about psychology and what people are really motivated by. As they say, don't listen to what people say, but watch what they do. People pay money for fresh graphics and new skins on old games, and are happy with that.

But it's a reason why the real innovations and platforms selling features for PS4 were not pretty graphics or impressive vertical slice demos. It was the other features Sony focused on, the sharing, social, and network related ideas.

 

[SerOnionKnight]

The Wii U is in the same position it was 24 hours ago. Games required!!

If you think the Wii U is hurting for games wait till the PS4 releases. Guaranteed 1 year from know the same crowd will be saying the same thing except Wii U will be replaced by PS4. If you've been around long enough you know every console launch it never changes.

 

[NotLiquid]

So you're going to get the 360 version ported over and if you're lucky it'll be slightly better looking/running.

With the amount of screen tearing involved in merely the PC build it's hard to be impressed by how little "next gen" that particular game is.

 

[spock]

Oh I agree the social crap isn't really a big draw and doesn't add that wow factor, but unless your eyes are broken if you show the "average consumer" that Capcom demo or something on the level of Agni's Philosophy, KZ4, or the UE4 demo and put it next to NSMB and Zombie U then I'm sure their decision on which "feel" more next gen would change. And that's not even the crux of the reason why I feel people won't buy Nintendo. As I said they've got a legacy of not delivering the games people want unless its Nintendo 1st party. They aren't going to instantly shake that reputation even if people think there's some sort of system parity.

Personally I think your over estimating the value of visuals in relation price and generational leaps. I don't think average consumers are going to see justifable value or next gen innovation if Sony prices high.

Sony will get core gamers and techies, but I have no idea if thats good enough for them or who they want. Thats who they targeted with vita, and thats not going well. Obviously this is a console and not a handheld so the stage is different.

For me personally I'm drawn to the PS4 for all the features outside of the visuals. I think they really opened things up for some cool experinces, but I don't feel its going to be an easy sell. That means they need to sell on something else. Ala visuals, but like I said the visuals aint worth $400-500 IMO.

 

[tarzanpuyol]

I had hopes for Nintendo to finally turn around and give an honest try to capture the hardcore gamer back. I grew up with Nintendo but with anything in life you need to keep interest by creating new things and for Nintendo that means doing more than just the big 3 games and then nothing. It also means to be competitive with the other 2.

The WiiU could be something good, but unfortunately if the distance in tech is that big between the ps4 and WiiU, I already know where I am going to buy my games except mario zelda and metroid of course.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

All I see in this thread is a bunch of butt hurt by people tearing down the Wii U and trying to build up the PS4. 95% of you have probably never even tried a Wii U. And to top it off, you people must not have been watching the same stream I was last night because that was underwhelming. They don't even have a console to show at this point.

Well, just for the record, I have had a Wii U since US launch day (was that the 18th or 20th of November, I can't remember), and I'm also not on board the PS4 hype train. None of that affects my perception, though, that I personally think Nintendo is in some trouble with the Wii U right now that certainly isn't going to be aided by the release of newer, more powerful hardware.

 

[SerOnionKnight]

Nintendo innovates with their franchises.

Killzone looks like the same exact game as all the others with slightly prettier graphics. After 10 minutes of "wow" you will realize you are playing the same old boring corridor shooter. My opinion of course.

Exactly, It's Crysis 3 I swear it is the exact same game. And Watch Dogs? Assasins Creed in the future. Been there, played that.

 

[Sponge]

I'd say Nintendo's worse off at that reveal.

 

[Haunted]

Exactly the same as before.

WiiU will not get Western third party support and will survive on the strength of Nintendo's first party alone. True last month, true today.


I joked about having a juxtaposition of Nintendo's last "third party partners" slide with a handful of logos on it and Sony's from yesterday to illustrate the point, but eh.

 

[Alienous]

Nintendo innovates with their franchises.

Killzone looks like the same exact game as all the others with slightly prettier graphics. After 10 minutes of "wow" you will realize you are playing the same old boring corridor shooter. My opinion of course.

Nintendo innovates with their franchises? No, no they do not.

Nintendo innovate with hardware, then they sell you the same experience with a different motif. "Experience Mario on the Gamepad", "Play Ocarina of Time in 3D!". In terms of true innovation, Sony takes the lead. Heavy Rain is innovative, irregardless of how good a game it is. Journey is innovative. Skyward Sword is not. It is the same tired gameplay with a new control mechanic.

Killzone looks like the same game, sure. It fufills what particular people want from a FPS. Not every game is going to innovate, as Nintendo demonstrate. Some, like Nintendo, work on perfecting a formula rather than changing it.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Exactly, It's Crysis 3 I swear it is the exact same game. And Watch Dogs? Assasins Creed in the future. Been there, played that.

And Mario Kart, Smash Bros., 3D Mario, and Wind Waker HD promise to bring brand new experiences? Personally, I think given the current state of the industry at large, going to the "I'm tired of Company X releasing the same stuff over and over" well is not a very on-point critique when singling entities out.

 

[ReconPeon]

Super Smash Bros.

 

[Laguna]

And Mario Kart, Smash Bros., 3D Mario, and Wind Waker HD promise to bring brand new experiences? Personally, I think given the current state of the industry at large, going to the "I'm tired of Company X releasing the same stuff over and over" well is not a very on-point critique when singling entities out.

It´s still quite different to release these rather unique titles than the ten-thousandth FPS, especially if its a relatively unpopular one like Killzone, which is only highlighted by Sonyfans and mostly ignored by anyone else.

 

[Deleted member 1235]

Can't wait, nintendo must be fully set to ramp up panic mode again, looking forward to reaping the benefits...

 

[Dali]

Personally I think your over estimating the value of visuals in relation price and generational leaps. I don't think average consumers are going to see justifable value or next gen innovation if Sony prices high.

Sony will get core gamers and techies, but I have no idea if thats good enough for them or who they want. Thats who they targeted with vita, and thats not going well. Obviously this is a console and not a handheld so the stage is different.

For me personally I'm drawn to the PS4 for all the features outside of the visuals. I think they really opened things up for some cool experinces, but I don't feel its going to be an easy sell. That means they need to sell on something else. Ala visuals, but like I said the visuals aint worth $400-500 IMO.

Yes as I said I agree visuals wouldn't be the only factor. Nintendo's legacy is also a hurdle they need to overcome. I believe a lot of people will think should I get this console that has Madden, fighting games, mainline franchises I love: GTA, Kill Zone, Call of Duty, Halo, God of War, future, "epic", AAA 1st, 2nd, and 3rd party games and more than likely guaranteed 3rd party support OR go out on a limb and hope Nintendo gets support it hasn't really had in abundance since the SNES?. They're going to have to see a lot more than what Nintendo has shown to make them choose Wii U over other options.

 

[Ironchef3500]

Exactly, It's Crysis 3 I swear it is the exact same game. And Watch Dogs? Assasins Creed in the future. Been there, played that.

How the hell are Mario and Zelda innovative?? Come the heck on. Entertaining yes, innovative... how?

 

[Baconsammy]

With the amount of screen tearing involved in merely the PC build it's hard to be impressed by how little "next gen" that particular game is.

There's no tearing in Watchdogs. It was the stream. Go watch the direct feed footage Ubisoft put up last night. No tearing at all.

 

[diffusionx]

Wii landed in the market with a wet splat and only is looking worse as time goes on. The PS4 looks like a great piece of hardware with lots of developer support and some great social features.

Right now, the Wii U's best case scenario is starting to resemble GameCube's market performance. Nintendo fans will buy Nintendo games, as always, but I'm struggling to find a single damn reason why anyone else would want one.

 

[Majmun]

Nintendo innovates with their franchises.

Yeah, NsmbU didn't look, sound and play like its 2006 counterpart. Everything stayed basically the same. 3D Zelda hasn't changed much either since OOT. Mario Kart is also still the same.

People are really overrating the current Nintendo when it comes to innovation.

 

[tapedeck]

I really dont think the conference changed anyones perceptions, except maybe restoring faith that Sony gives no fucks and is making a true next gen system. We all expected PS4 to be a powerhouse (well most of us) and we already know the Wii U isnt. So the needle hasnt moved, people are still going to wait for Nintendo franchises to come out before being really interested in Wii U (Im still planning on getting a Wii U when Smash/Mario Kart drops, PS4 specs dont have any affect on that decision). And people hyped for PS4 should have gotten most of what they wanted out of that show.

Also those hating on the PS4 demos saying they dont look that much better? Sure maybe the games that are being released on current gen AND PS4 dont, of course they wouldnt. Killzone and Deep Down however look mighty impressive, and in all likelyhood they were running on incomplete hardware. I expect the PS4 stuff shown at this years E3 to make alot of what was shown yesterday look like total crap.

 

[SerOnionKnight]

Wii landed in the market with a wet splat and only is looking worse as time goes on. The PS4 looks like a great piece of hardware with lots of developer support and some great social features.

Right now, the Wii U's best case scenario is starting to resemble GameCube's market performance. Nintendo fans will buy Nintendo games, as always, but I'm struggling to find a single damn reason why anyone else would want one.

Great piece of hardware? What? You must mean the controller because I know you didn't see anything about any other hardware.

 

[freddy]

It certainly seems like 3rd parties are all on board the PS4 and not too much noise about WiiU still. Seems to be the red-headed stepchild, in that regard.

 

[Derrick01]

With the amount of screen tearing involved in merely the PC build it's hard to be impressed by how little "next gen" that particular game is.

That was the really poor quality stream tearing.

And besides even if it was tearing last night I'm sure they wouldn't forget to tack on Vsync in the following 8 months before release. We're not exactly dealing with consoles like 360/ps3 that are completely tapped out and need to make drastic cuts to remain playable.

 

[dsmoke1986]

Worse, I think the WiiU is toast, we're starting to see new Sku's coming through...Will be discounted heavily in the next 12 months, but not sure it's going to matter.

I love Nintendo, but see the WiiU going back to Gamecube relative to the next gen system wars.

 

[prag16]

All I see in this thread is a bunch of butt hurt by people tearing down the Wii U and trying to build up the PS4. 95% of you have probably never even tried a Wii U. And to top it off, you people must not have been watching the same stream I was last night because that was underwhelming. They don't even have a console to show at this point.

This, 100%.

Beforehand I was prediction backpedaling, denial, and damage control from those who had massive expectations going into last night. We're seeing all three.

The damage controllers are manifesting their disappointment as vitriol towards the Wii U, and the denial'ers are clearly suffering from confirmation bias.

Maybe Sony ran two different streams; one for the hardcore Sony fans and one for everyone else. You and I must've seen the "everyone else" version.

All I saw was a nice bump in graphics (not an incredible jump) and a bunch of miscellaneous features that I (and I'd guess a majority of gamers) don't care much about, along with hardware that will be expensive enough that Sony can't offer it for under $500 without taking another massive loss. :/

 

[ari]

Nintendo innovates with their franchises? No, no they do not.

Nintendo innovate with hardware, then they sell you the same experience with a different motif. "Experience Mario on the Gamepad", "Play Ocarina of Time in 3D!". In terms of true innovation, Sony takes the lead. Heavy Rain is innovative, irregardless of how good a game it is. Journey is innovative. Skyward Sword is not. It is the same tired gameplay with a new control mechanic.

Killzone looks like the same game, sure. It fufills what particular people want from a FPS. Not every game is going to innovate, as Nintendo demonstrate. Some, like Nintendo, work on perfecting a formula rather than changing it.

Eww

 

[CorporateClown]

I'm not one to get too caught up in console wars (I own pretty much every system over the last 20 years, minus the U), but I find it amusingly sad how defensive nintendo fans can get sometimes. It actually makes me want to see the Wii U remain completely irrelevant just to hear them whine. And that makes me sad

 

[PG2G]

The graphics in Killzone are absolutely mind blowing. If you can't tell from the stream, I suggest you take a look at some of the direct feed shots. There is a huge gap in performance between the PS4 and WiiU, larger than I would have imagined.

I'm not really excited about the games they showed, but I am excited about what that hardware means for the future.

 

[Relax.MX]

Better for me.. 400 usd for a console? Never!! (that is part of my PC money)..250 usd for the deluxe version to play Nintendo games is not bad

 

[Huff]

It´s still quite different to release these rather unique titles than the ten-thousandth FPS, especially if its a relatively unpopular one like Killzone, which is only highlighted by Sonyfans and mostly ignored by anyone else.

totally not coming off as biased here

 

[Discomurf]

Call me crazy but I think Nintendo has a genuine opportunity to win E3 this year. Their system is out and ready to go so they can spend all their time on content... its up to them... on top of Mario games they need to go all in with a ton of new exclusives, partnerships, indie stuff, price cut etc. We also need to see a really unique use of the controller. They need to have a 'holy sh*t that Wii U game looks as good as anything I've seen on ps4' moment. Retro needs to wow us with a 'uncharted' type game, after seeing what they pulled off in the past on Wii, I have faith they can do wonders with the new hardware... graphics isn't just about beefed up horsepower its also about art direction, style and polish.

 

[diffusionx]

Great piece of hardware? What? You must mean the controller because I know you didn't see anything about any other hardware.

We saw the specs, which is enough for me. Are you referring to the enclosure? Who cares about that?

 

[ari]

totally not coming off as biased here

He is right though. :/

Kz 3 was the best looking ps3 title for me but isnt popular at all.

 

[metalslimer]

At this point it's pretty obvious what the situation is with 3rd parties. Capcom, Square Enix, Crytek, and Epic are all building engines that work around PS4 (and presumably Durango). The only thing we have now is 3rd party committement to the PS4 but its more than Nintendo ever got wth the Wii U

 

[Laguna]

totally not coming off as biased here

I´m just telling the truth, Killzone isn´t that popular outside the Sonyfans crowd and in fact every game he mentioned outsold Sonys top FPS. I´m tired from the hundreds and hundreds FPS games this gen, so excuse me if I´m not interested in this genre anymore, if you still have such an interest for another one go ahead.

 

[birdchili]

one (or two) pad-requiring must-have games from nintendo at e3 would potentially put them back in decent shape. ps4 reveal isn't going to do wiiu sales any particular damage that isn't already done in the short-term.

that said, nintendo needs to get sales up well enough that they can keep *some* third-party western support. again: this depends way more on their own sales and perceived audience than it does on anything sony is going to do before the ps4 releases.

nintendo still has work to do justifying the existence of the pad. if they can do that in a more compelling way, they still have a prayer. just looking at the thing, it seems clunky and confusing - that's not a ps4-related issue, it's an overall image issue.

 

[Alienous]

Eww

Please, if you want to respond do so in a constructive fashion.

If Nintendo could show an 'God of War: Ascension' level game, graphically, then that could alleviate some of the comparisons between graphics. But it took Sony's developers 5-6 years to achieve that fidelity, and Nintendo don't have the experience or internal team sizes to pull that off.

I think that Nintendo have made the major jump. Everything that is possible, gameplay wise, seem to be possible on the PS3/360/WiiU. Textures might differ, and loading times might vary. What follows from here is real-time fingernail light refractions, but those don't change what a game is.

I'd like for Nintendo to try to innovate with their games, and that is the impression I get from them. Take the concept of 'The Legend of Zelda' and reimagine it, find the core of it. They need to push Star Fox, Kid Icarus, Metroid and F-Zero. They can cover every concievable genre with AAA efforts from Nintendo's main studios. Then, they might have a chance.

 

[Dali]

At this point it's pretty obvious what the situation is with 3rd parties. Capcom, Square Enix, Crytek, and Epic are all building engines that work around PS4 (and presumably Durango). The only thing we have now is 3rd party committement to the PS4 but its more than Nintendo ever got wth the Wii U

The thing is commitment isn't even enough to give confidence in the quality of the 3rd party support Nintendo would receive. They were adamant about getting endorsements from 3rd parties with the Wii. They were particularly proud of their EA nod... and yet look at the 3rd party games the Wii got; Mostly spinoffs and lesser quality ports and ultimately abandoned completely.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

If it wasn't already an afterthought it now surely is. Does anyone care it outside of people who enjoy Mario, Zelda, and so on? The PS4 conf (and most likely 720's as well) was so far above and beyond the Wii U it's nuts. It's going to sell like the Gamecube except more in proportion to how bigger the gaming market is now (meaning, if the GC sold 20 mil and the overall sales of that gen were 150 mil, then the Wii U would sell 30-40 mil if the overall sales are 250 mil, I suck at math).

 

[Tash]

If anything I think it's more clear than ever that Nintendo is going its own way while Sony and Microsoft are going up against PC. Trying to push graphics and hardware mostly.

I mean, I used to be excited about Playstation Consoles back when Final Fantasy was big but now - there is only so much of the same freaking game genre I can take. Yes graphics look much more amazing now but if a game is exclusive to a hardware than it better be mindblowingly different than what I can get on PC game-play wise. And from what I saw yesterday it doesn't seem to be.

That's something Nintendo tries to do. The only problem is that the release games really didn't do the WiiU justice or showed what it can do. Big problem there but that's Nintendo's problem and it's completely un-influenced by the PS4 presentation imo.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Nintendo's gonna do just fine with their first party offerings and over in Japan. But they're not reaching the heights of the Wii ever again. Business as usual like with the 64/Gamecube.

This is spot on.

Can't wait for X.

 

[tkscz]

If it wasn't already an afterthought it now surely is. Does anyone care it outside of people who enjoy Mario, Zelda, and so on? The PS4 conf (and most likely 720's as well) was so far above and beyond the Wii U it's nuts. It's going to sell like the Gamecube except more in proportion to how bigger the gaming market is now (meaning, if the GC sold 20 mil and the overall sales of that gen were 150 mil, then the Wii U would sell 30-40 mil if the overall sales are 250 mil, I suck at math).

talk about pulling things from your ass. SMH

OT: It's in the same shape it was in before. While competition plays a part in sales, games play a bigger role. The PS3 and 360 were way beyond the Wii, more so than the PS4 is from WiiU, but it sold like hotcakes because of software, not hardware. So I say wait.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

talk about pulling things from your ass. SMH

OT: It's in the same shape it was in before. While competition plays a part in sales, games play a bigger role. The PS3 and 360 were way beyond the Wii, more so than the PS4 is from WiiU, but it sold like hotcakes because of software, not hardware. So I say wait.

You can shake your head all you want man but this is the most likely scenario for Wii U.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

talk about pulling things from your ass. SMH

How so? Was I off on the gamecube sales? wait yeah I might've been... 20 mil is probably just NA?

 

[Steve Youngblood]

I´m just telling the truth, Killzone isn´t that popular outside the Sonyfans crowd and in fact every game he mentioned outsold Sonys top FPS. I´m tired from the hundreds and hundreds FPS games this gen, so excuse me if I´m not interested in this genre anymore, if you still have such an interest for another one go ahead.

For the record, I don't think there's anything wrong with liking Nintendo games more than what Sony showed. However, I think what some are trying to do is make their case via some sort of objectively meaningful rhetoric, which is just odd. I'd rather play a new Smash Bros. as opposed to Killzone as well, but I'm not going to attack Sony for showing the same stale gameplay, as I realize that there's a certain hypocrisy there that undermines my point.