On-die .. complexities go up.
Can MS change their ram to GDDR5 or is it too late at this point?
- Thread starter Globox_82
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katsubento
Member
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Unlike this gen, the Durango and PS4 has the same GPU, CPU, and the same ram set up (one unified poo). The ddifference is that while the CPU is equally powerful, the PS4 has objectively better RAM(2-3 times faster) and GPU (1.8 Tflops +18 CUs vs 1.2 Tflops +12 CUs). Because they have the same architecture, making use of the extra power found in the PS4 won't be a challenge - it's just a matter of flipping a flip.
I thought so.
The damage control is hilarious. The fuming over 8GB GDDR5 lord. They still don't believe it
Well the current leaks are from February of last year.
So we are to believe that nothing has changed since last year.
And then Sony went from 2GB to 4GB to 8GB.
I remember GAF insiders saying adding 8GB of GDDR5 would push PS4 to a 2014 release, and yet here we are today.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
i dont think they would either way.
Nothing will be gained from going that high, nope. It will still be bottlenecked by the CPU-GPU combination they've chosen to put in.
They could, if they wanted to win the marketing specs battle add another 2 Gigs of RAM, but I don't see the benefit of it at this point.
Honestly, I think that the move made by Sony was less about the gaming side per say, but it was necessary to give them some welcome room for implementing OS features and services, and update their system as to counter any next move by Microsoft on that front.
To Far Away Times
Member
I'm trying to figure out how everyone knows how much ram is in the next xbox.
Dreamgazer
Member
Currently bgassassin is claiming the CPU is more powerful on durango due to customizations.
This can't be said enough.
Increasing the ESRAM to 64MB would add a lot of cost and cause yields to drop.
LyleLanley
Banned
If they're not manufacturing consoles yet isn't it possible that they have multiple designs with varying amounts of ram?
UberTag
Member
The same way they know Microsoft is only focusing on Kinect and casuals this coming gen.
Their record towards the end of this generation speaks for itself.
They must be doing a good job if the console is still selling.
Warm Machine
Member
No problem! That is exactly why this game forum FUD about casual focus and Kinect 2.0 all the time is complete crap.
Will there be a Kinect 2? Yeah. Will all games need it? Highly doubtful. When playing a game like Fez what can an always on always tracking system resource like Kinect bring to the table? Nothing.
The next Xbox is without question going to be targeted as an all in one media solution but anything with tech from 5 years ago can do full HD streams and recordings. The footprint and OS overhead for that stuff is tiny.
Also with win 8 obviously transitioning to win 9 in the next few years it seems very strange to do a full win 8 dump with all the security issues amnd daily updates/patches on the Xbox.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
And bgassassin thought that the Wii U was substantiality more powerful before the truth was revealed.
Dreamgazer
Member
Why we even discussing anything?
How do you know it exist? It probably doesn't!
Of course, but there are some that want MS to go the weaker hardware route.
I dont even ..
For what it's worth. Edge, which accurately reported the 8GB and the rest of the stuff from the PS Meeting reveal such as share button, videos, controller etc. is saying
Xbox will not play used games
Xbox will always need to be online
Xbox is not as developer friendly
He also said Xbox will need to be online, no BC, no used games and heavy Kinect focus.
edit:
I hope MS does do this! Also boost the gpu to match ps4. I think MS is going to battle on price. Maybe even a $99 version with a 2 year live pass or something.
He stills think that too.... kinda funny.
He stills think that too.... kinda funny.
travisbickle
Member
Aren't the customisations there to alleviate the issues with the memory bandwidth?
I'm a little confused, but wasn't the consensus (based around the rumours) that MS went with a larger amount of the slower ram because that was better for OS functionality and were working on ways to close the gap of speed between the ram types...then Sony pulls off the seemingly impossible and doubled their available ram and now .. to some .. the difference seems less of an issue?
GillianSeed79
Member
I think it's too late. I think the better question is what will Microsoft's 3rd party relations be like next-gen. The PS4's system architecture seems to be much more developer friendly than the PS3. But all that power probably won't mean a whole lot if third parties use the Durango as the lead platform for development. Of course, first-pary offerings would take full advantage of the power disparity though.
It's kind of like how PC games have been stifled this gen because it makes more financial sense to develop for the base-line, lowest common denominator specs of the 360 than going all out and developing for high-end PC's and down porting.
I guess it will probably come down to sales, but next gen it seems like it will be much more of an even playing field. I don't think MS will be able to get away with being the defacto lead on development again given that third parties won't have to deal with the Cell again and will have a more PC-like platform.
It's kind of like how PC games have been stifled this gen because it makes more financial sense to develop for the base-line, lowest common denominator specs of the 360 than going all out and developing for high-end PC's and down porting.
I guess it will probably come down to sales, but next gen it seems like it will be much more of an even playing field. I don't think MS will be able to get away with being the defacto lead on development again given that third parties won't have to deal with the Cell again and will have a more PC-like platform.
Warm Machine
Member
People have been suggesting that Win 8 takes up oodles of Ram on the Durango because the whole OS is in there. I'm not doubting much of the specs and I'm not doubting always on or used games. I do doubt developer friendly as its just a pc processor and to build for Win 8/PC with C++ is par. It is obvious that the OS is going to grow due to multitasking that will likely form a larger part of the experience.
MS is so fucked
Anybody outside of GAF* hardly gives a shit about these things.
Maybe developers do, but publishers make the call based on other things anyway.
*GAF = hardcore crowd.
You and me, bud, we are not on the same wavelength.
The DME aren't there to aleviate the issues with low bandwidth, but instead it sounds as though they are there to minimize them.
Warm Machine
Member
Let me in.
Brad Grenz
Member
No. Not if they want to launch this year. Don't listen to anyone who says otherwise because they are clinging to false hopes. The fact is changing either the type of memory, or increasing the amount of embedded memory is an incredibly significant change to the silicon. It means rolling back a number of steps in a very long process required for designing, testing and retesting chip designs. Not to mention much of the software stack and dev environment (and games) are currently built around the current paradigm of DDR3, ESRAM and DMEs. Changing any one of those will have repercussions to the whole system, OS, drivers, APIs.
The only thing that is remotely plausible would be an increase of the main memory to 16GB, but that much RAM that is that slow would be incredibly wasteful for games. They'd probably end up locking off half the memory for system use anyway for way more multitasking than is really necessary.
The only thing that is remotely plausible would be an increase of the main memory to 16GB, but that much RAM that is that slow would be incredibly wasteful for games. They'd probably end up locking off half the memory for system use anyway for way more multitasking than is really necessary.
Exactly, its not like dropping in a controller for GDDR5 and the new chips is all there is to do, theres massive differences between the two, voltage for one. You would need to redesign your motherboard as at the moment theres no GDDR5 modules big enough to get away with just 4 of them.
Looks like MS is ready to surprise everyone at the reveal.
Unless.
Significantly Weaker Specs
No Used Games
Always Online
Is true.
Then they are shit out of luck. Looks like only Sony can make last minute changes to their specs. Heh.
Castle Doctrine
Member
This is the correct answer. Microsoft is going to get their new box on Ellen, Oprah, and Live with Kelly Ripa and Jason Statham...or Jason Scrapham.. forgetting his name right now, jump around with Kinect with the audience and it will sell millions in a few weeks. That's what they did with Kinect. Microsoft will heavily target their marketing to women.
The durango specs haven't changed since Feb 2012. It's possible microsoft could be using those specs as a baseline minimum for developers to work on and now with the extra year+ the end machine could end up being more powerful. It's also a good strategy to keep copycat companies like sony from ripping them off and outdoing them. Will this happen? Who knows, i guess well find out whenever microsoft hold their "meeting".
les papillons sexuels
Banned
lol, sony suddenly adds 4 more gigs fo ddr5 but microsoft cant?
Would be a great troll by MS if true.
Remember when 4GB GDDR5 was more than enough? lol
I'm not sure why you keep insisting with this. Bumping the RAM spec to twice is a different animal than changing the memory type. If one is highly unlikely (RAM bump 2x) then the other (mem type change) is highly unlikely squared.
Yup MS just released the most expensive game in Xbox history for its core fanbase only 3 months ago with a team put together of some of the best industry wide.
But still you have the Flowerbros whining that they are only concentrating on casual, while closing their eyes and ears when Sony gave primer one to Wonderbook and Media Molecule demoed a Move game onstage in New York.
All consoles want the casual audience it has no bearing on the specs issue.
I'm not insisting anything, but I'm not taking specs from February of last year as 100% final specs. The fact that only Sony has been able to make changes, and a very big one at the last minute is subject to suspect.
This is what I don't get.
What's with the double standard?
If any company can afford the cost of last minute changes, its Microsoft. Hell, Epic forced their hand with the 360.
I've got a sneaking suspicion Sony's last minute RAM bump was in response to some info they got a whiff of out of Redmond.
Bit rich, coming from you of all people....