I dont find it difficult to digest that people are less willing to believe a thing with 1% chance over 2%.
Can MS change their ram to GDDR5 or is it too late at this point?
- Thread starter Globox_82
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We'll find out soon enough anyway.
UberTag
Member
Dude, your point is sound but don't label Sony enthusiasts as Flowerbros.
That's an insult to Flower. Flower's an amazing experience.
Thatgamecompany can do no wrong in my book.
bigboss370
Member
I don't know that they can make significant spec changes, but whatever they're doing, I hope MS brings it. big time.
I'm really hoping that they're not going to focus too much on entertainment/tv and media extras. thats not what i'm looking for. i'm looking for the system that advances gaming. Sony did the right thing in setting the bar so far, if MS match it then as gamers it will be glorious.
I'm really hoping that they're not going to focus too much on entertainment/tv and media extras. thats not what i'm looking for. i'm looking for the system that advances gaming. Sony did the right thing in setting the bar so far, if MS match it then as gamers it will be glorious.
ilikesanta
Member
I don't get this idea that people think that MS is just going to install Win 8 on the 720 and not have a unique OS? I think I remember people thinking that the original xbox would run windows as well. I would be shocked, Shocked! that 720 would be running win 8. MS will make a unique OS for the 720, it will look very metro, for sure, but it wont be running win 8.
*based off of my gorilla logic
Goodacre0081
Member
at this point the only thing that MS can do now is launch at E3. everything points to xbox going in the opposite direction I want them to go. weaker system, paywall, lack of first party effort, developers frustration with their policies, kinect.
Death @ Flowerbros. Lord y'all are messy let me leave
Gemüsepizza
Member
It has been said multiple times before:
Doubling the RAM is soooo much easier than what Microsoft would have to do in order to increase system performance. They would have to rework the complete chip design, and completely scrap things like ESRAM, their memory controller etc. - all of that maybe 3 months before mass-production. That's not really doable.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
Gemüsepizza;48071125 said:
no they wouldn't, all they would have to do is account for the extra size/power consumption.
Warm Machine
Member
I remember when the original Xbox was coming out and they Dev kits started with an rough equivalent PC you needed to build and the slowly morphed into the actual machine over what seemed like 6 iterations.
Same thing with the 360. Real dev kits hit only a month or two before release for us. No clue how flexible the specs ever were during that period though. It was that you needed this type of card, this much ram, etc. Just like the PS 4 the first thing that was actual Xbox 360 was the controller.
I doubt anything will change but it could be that reported specs/hardware is the equivalent available devkit and not the actual machine itself. Who know though.
Really nice to know that the PS4 is clean and concise when it comes to the GPU, CPU, Ram, storage, and base input device. Glad that Cell is out of the picture and dev tools can mature and be shared across platforms with more confidence.
Same thing with the 360. Real dev kits hit only a month or two before release for us. No clue how flexible the specs ever were during that period though. It was that you needed this type of card, this much ram, etc. Just like the PS 4 the first thing that was actual Xbox 360 was the controller.
I doubt anything will change but it could be that reported specs/hardware is the equivalent available devkit and not the actual machine itself. Who know though.
Really nice to know that the PS4 is clean and concise when it comes to the GPU, CPU, Ram, storage, and base input device. Glad that Cell is out of the picture and dev tools can mature and be shared across platforms with more confidence.
Gemüsepizza
Member
Extra size because of what? Cooling because of higher clocks? This is an APU. There are thermal power limits, you can't just increase clock frequencies from the GPU part by a considerable amount without it affecting the rest of the chip.
Those rumors did turn out true when looking at the PS4.
Unless MS wants to change the memory subsystem completely and throw away all their investment on the original spec, they will prefer to sit on the same architecture. A radical shift like that would also incur potential coding/library/tool changes.
I also own Flower bro (dump pun intended) and Im also a fan of ThatGC. Which means that Flowerbros and Dudebros can like the same games. Which is weird becuase it seems some people label others because They can't handle that all gamers can enjoy games that are not their preference or their preferred console.
This has nothing to do with Sony. Games like Call of Duty are the top selling games on The PS3 as well as the Xbox.
This is what I was responding to
Gemüsepizza
Member
Which is absolutely trivial compared to a redesign of a chip which is very difficult to produce.
Neko Mimi Mode
Member
Gemüsepizza;48071203 said:
Aside from RAM, you mean?
Not that it makes them any more reliable, unless your wishful thinking extends to MS sitting on their hands for a year.
If things have changed, that would have been known beforehand.
A reaction to a recent spec bump (weeks old) that MS predicted over a year ago. What are the chances?
Besides, MS knows very well that the console war is not won on pure spec alone, current-gen is a good example.
Gemüsepizza
Member
Because at that time, memory chips of the needed size simply weren't ready. Now they are. Still a completely different thing than a redesign of the APU.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
Gemüsepizza;48071274 said:
you wouldn't need a redesign. The apu doesn't access ram, it has its own l1 cache.
Just remember, the rumored spec bump to the CPU was not in the leak from February of last year. So we really have no idea what else has changed.
Brad Grenz
Member
GDDR5 has a special technique built into the spec for doubling capacity by soldering chips on opposite sides of a PCB. All Sony had to do to double the RAM for PS4 was basically decide to order twice as many chips and use this technique.
The desperate way you cling to the purported age of the specs is really sad. That may be how long ago they were first disseminated, but leakers have had a whole year to tells us about changes and there have been none. In fact most people who seem to have actual knowledge are suggesting they remain spot on.
After they go back to the drawing board on the actual chip design that had to have been finished last year... The type of RAM you connect to a processor is governed by the kind of memory controller that processor has built into it. You can't just swap to a different kind of RAM. First you have to redesign the fucking chip. Likewise you can't just increase the amount of Embedded Memory on a chip. The chip was designed to interface with a certain amount, and was laid out to accommodate a certain amount. Any change means going back to the design phase and starting all your testing over. The lead time on that is significant.
Gemüsepizza;48071125 said:
Yeah this, im not going to front and say i know the ins and outs of anything, but even from a layman point there would be little chance of a full redesign months before mass production starts. These machines arnt just knocked out over night they take months and years to get to the stage we are at now. Bumping the ram up is a little different from changing the type of ram. Wouldnt bumping the ddr 3 to 16 also be pointless cost?.
travisbickle
Member
You're talking about making a games console, the specs were decided years ago with incremental changes based around breakthroughs in testing ... possible bumps in clock speeds if they can keep the heat under control.
Just pixie dust.
The spec bump to the CPU isnt even reported from a reliable source yet. Unless you consider SuperDAE reliable .. woosh.
4GB of DDR5 RAM to 8GB of DDR5 RAM is much different than the leap of DDR3 RAM to DDR5 RAM, if I am not mistaken.
EDIT: Dyslexia acting up again.
Just like you were sure that the CPU in Durango from February was a lock. Sure.
That was from BGAssassin actually. SuperDAE never said anything about a CPU bump.
Sounds like you've already confirmed the spec bump!
16gb
16gb is utterly pointless. At the bandwidth they're at currently, you can only actually access 1gb per frame at 60fps, and 2gb per frame at 30fps. You'd never need to preload 16gb in memory for just a single scene or area lol. The actual bandwidth is much more important.
EDGE got it right. It is possible that the decision to shift to 8GB was decided upon really, really recently, hence why it wasn't reported by VGleaks and the likes. But the rumors rearding the GPU, CPU, controller, share Button...were SPOT ON.
It's not a matter of adding more GB, but rather having a good reason to do so. Yeah, MS could augment the RAM capacity, but to really take advantage of it, they would have to upgrade the GPU; otherwise, it would benefit solely multitasking.
Now, the real question is to know whether MS has had multiple designs to chose from from te get go. This a a much more interesting possibility...
Doesn't it even say in their official specs that all is subject to change?
Anyhow, if Microsoft is going for stacked DDR3 it won't matter at all because that is even faster than GDDR5.
If Sony can do it anyone can. Right guys?http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=47802013&postcount=996
Aside from the 4GB he already knew beforehand... (I highly doubt he knew about the 8GB)
Official PS4 specs and current Durango specs from February don't line up with what he said.
Brad Grenz
Member
The change that is completely unsubstantiated by anyone who's isn't proven to be very unreliable about unreleased specifications? You don't think the many, many, detailed leaks are reliable, but the first guy (who recently overestimated the WiiU GPU's capabilities in an almost pathological fashion by 2-4X it's actual power) that hints it might somehow be better than stock, is to be taken as fact?
You better hold bgassassin to that since Y2Kev said he will ban him for lying.
Especially since he's backing his statement 100%.
I'll side with him on this one. On the VGleaks documents, there weren't that many details concerning the CPU (unless I'm mistaken).
I don't know bg's track record to comment but it seems like you were very eager to believe any positive leak for Durango. If bg's correct then the rest of the things he said about Durango make it sound like a very poor platform.
Brad Grenz
Member
He's fled when his outlandish claims started proving false before.
Well he's going to be banned anyway for lying if false.
If MS follows through with the rest of what he stated... They are done.
Brad Grenz
Member
That only supports my position. The leak is vague enough on the CPU that even if it is twice as powerful as a stock Jaguar design, we can't conclude anything actually changed between then and now.