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[Opiate]

I don't think some people are thinking like major publishers here. These aren't casual observers like you or I. These are major, multibillion dollar organizations, and decisions on which platform to invest in often decide the fate of hundreds of millions of dollars at a time.

These aren't the sorts of decisions you make by seeing a press event and thinking, "Wow! That sizzle reel was awesome!" Further, as already stated, all of the major publishers (and their subsidiary developers) almost certainly had a pretty strong grasp on the PS4 before this.

This event was not intended to change Publisher's minds.

 

[spannicus]

with the current gen being awesome as it is already all consoles adding something of worth. 99 cent cell phone games cut a big chunk out of the already awesome generations profits so much that consoles were said to be DOOMED. Excitement for the next gen yes but I only really see them appealing to the "Hardcore" gamer Casual gamers will spend their money elsewhere and call us nerds for spending so much on a new video game console.

 

[AZ Greg]

What excitement? The excitement of being able to play the slightly shinier version of last gen games for $400+? Where exactly is the PS4 going to make it's millions I wonder. It's certainly not in Japan based on what we've seen so far. Microsoft could screw up America but otherwise a, likely expensive, console with very few exclusives and no blu-ray/DVD 'new media' to get it out the door like the previous Playstations will likely struggle initially.
Don't get me wrong, there do seem to be some people here excited for it and more to them! They're getting what they want in a high tech box, just it seems to be for no one else but the hardcore Sony minority.

I don't get this thinking. Just because the Wii sold well we're to believe nobody wants traditional console upgrades? Guess I imagined the 150 mil. sales the HD twins combined for.

 

[Takuya]

What excitement? The excitement of being able to play the slightly shinier version of last gen games for $400+? Where exactly is the PS4 going to make it's millions I wonder. It's certainly not in Japan based on what we've seen so far. Microsoft could screw up America but otherwise a, likely expensive, console with very few exclusives and no blu-ray/DVD 'new media' to get it out the door like the previous Playstations will likely struggle initially.
Don't get me wrong, there do seem to be some people here excited for it and more to them! They're getting what they want in a high tech box, just it seems to be for no one else but the hardcore Sony minority.

The WiiU is basically shinier version of current generation and sells for around $300-350..

 

[Verano]

The WiiU is basically shinier version of current generation and sells for around $300-350..

touché

 

[Zaventem]

The WiiU is basically shinier version of current generation and sells for around $300-350..

Yeah, this bs excuse that some nintendo fans like to throw around really makes my head hurt.

 

[Ninman]

The WiiU is basically shinier version of current generation and sells for around $300-350..

But current gen doesn't have nintendo games in HD.

Also, the gamepad is awesome, (off TV play its a next gen feature).

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

Oh now Wii U is shiny.

Spoiler

jk

 

[Jamix012]

I don't get this thinking. Just because the Wii sold well we're to believe nobody wants traditional console upgrades? Guess I imagined the 150 mil. sales the HD twins combined for.

Firstly I think the state of gaming has changed. I think tablets and the long running generation have a lot to do with that but I don't think a new generation will change that. People just aren't willing to shell out a huge amount of money anymore on hardware when they have their phone able to provide entertainment. Yes it's a different type of entertainment: they're not perfect substitutes, but substitutes none the less.

Secondly, I'm not amongst those who think Killzone was umimpressive. It looks nice and certainly what I'd expect from this generational leap. That having been said I do think it's a smaller jump then last generation. It's not that people won't notice the difference, just that the difference isn't worth the additional $400+ purchase.

Thirdly, costs of the HD generation were already high enough for all but the big players in the industry. The cost of making new games is growing faster than the available revenue. The new generation is just going to be far too expensive for many smaller, but popular devs to work with. If their games remain on last-gen consoles, so will the fan base.

Forthly. Maybe I'm remembering past generations wrongly but even with the few announcements we have at the moment this really seems we'll have the most cross-gen games ever. What does that mean for initial sales of the console? They're unlikely to take off if they only have a slightly shinier version of the same games.

Fifthly. I'm not saying I am right, this is only a prediction, but if I am and the PS4 launch is botched, why would developers stay on the console? It somehow happened with the PS3 but will it really happen again? Sony isn't the same giant it was back then (coming off the back of the PS2), not to mention if developers catch a sniff that the PS4 is not going to succeed they may not have the highest confidence in how Sony will handle it based on what we've seen with the Vita. If that happens then we might well end up with a similar case of what happened for a year after Vita's launch with the PSP, the devs supporting the older platform more.

Once again, please understand I'm just stating my logic and I'd like intelligent discussion over rants why I'm wrong.

 

[Eideka]

The WiiU is basically shinier version of current generation and sells for around $300-350..

Unfortunately it's true. The gamepad has brought nothing so far and I doubt this gimmick will impress many people....Going by the sales it has not.

 

[marc^o^]

The WiiU is basically shinier version of current generation and sells for around $300-350..

Read the Wii U satisfaction thread and see what people think of the Wii U (which BTW is a console + a living room handheld, not a mere console as you suggest).

 

[popeutlal]

Read the Wii U satisfaction thread and see what people think of the Wii U (which BTW is a console + a living room handheld, not a mere console as you suggest).

But that thread is on neogaf, which is is completely irrelevant when it comes to the mass market.

 

[Rocky]

But current gen doesn't have nintendo games in HD.

Also, the gamepad is awesome, (off TV play its a next gen feature).

Um, you could do off TV play with some PS3 games on the PSP, so wouldn't it be a last gen feature then?

 

[Green Yoshi]

If you can stream every PS4 game to your Vita, Nintendo is in a worse position than before.

Nintendo has to show some cool games at the E3 and drop the price of the WiiU. It won't sell as good as the Wii, but 20-30 million sold consoles in the next five years are very likely.

 

[Eideka]

Um, you could do off TV play with some PS3 games on the PSP, so wouldn't it be a last gen feature then?

Besides it's not an impressive feature at all.

 

[marc^o^]

Besides it's not an impressive feature at all.

You will likely change your mind the day you get a Wii U, you know, as a gamer.

 

[ThaGuy]

Besides it's not an impressive feature at all.

I take it you dont own one do you? Because if you did, then you would know thats not true imo.

 

[spock]

Nintendo doesnt just need more software, they need the right software hitting the right consumer & media touch points. Personally I think they will hit one of them between e3 and by the end of 2014.

They did not design and make the consoles focus a tablet without good reason. I'm betting there are some new IP's that are casual focused built from the ground up to hit the same notes as wii's big sellers.

Nintendo has more strategy going on behind the scenes then most gaffers ever give them credit for. I personally feel that they are using the early adopter crowd as beta testers in multiple ways.

Lets say holiday 2013 nintendo prices the deluxe at 299. At the same time they have a solid release of major IP's. BUT they also have 1 or 2 new games that have that mass appeal innovation feel (wii sports, wii fit, brain age type apeal but something fresh...l).

If they can time things right and get media interest on this "new" game, they will start to generate a buzz to cut into the ps4/nextbox campaigns. If they get those media spots you know they will point out the price difference, the controller difference, etc to their competitors.

But this is all hinges on software. The right software. Nintendos philosphy of creating hardware to deliver their vision of software makes much more sense if you think of it from the context of...

"how can we create innovative consumer experinces in gaming that are simple, fun and not to expensive with lots of potential"....They use this or something like this as the driving force in designing their hardware. They decide on the hardwar based on potential software ideas and concepts that could match that driving force. Now they just need to bring the software to demoonstrate their vision in action.

Whats funny is thus far most of what has been shown and is out for the wiiu is stuff that has more traditional gamer appeal, perhaps thats part of the strategy...Most early adopters are not the broader market. They did not release any real casual market killer apps...yet. Do you guys think that was just oversight?...

I also dont think they are banking it all on something like wiifit. My guess is they have quite a few new apps that have same philosphy and appeal but are quite different in experince. The controller is the indicator of that. Whatevr they have going on behind the scenes is going to really show why and what they can do with that tablet.

An interesting side point about these mass consumer games which works to nintendos advantage is the cost to create and develop them is CHEAP in contrast to gamer games. They can take lots of risk and try many new ideas quickly and easily...("cough"..shiggy working on smaller games") They can also if they decide to price these "entertainment experinces" much more competitivly.

We all know the 99 cent game scenerio aint going to work well for nintendo. But what about stuff between 4.99 & 39.99. With stuff that has lower production budget they can afford to price things lower. Instead of relying on high visual production values which are expensive as major a selling point for games, you switch to tacticle innovation and appeal and the cost of creating innovative & appealing games goes down quit abit.

Nintendo right now is better then anyone at creating these mass appeal "entertainment experinces" with their games. Thats why they did what they did with the wiiu. Sure its risky, but they do have a track record and strategy in mind.

My guess its just a matter of time before the broader killer app appears on the wiiu. The wiiiu is nintendos canvas for that strategy.

 

[Eideka]

You will likely change your mind the day you get a Wii U, you know, as a gamer.

I already tried this "feature" and it sucks, simple as that.

The only ones trying to elevate this stuff as something incredibly innovative are Nintendo apologists. Go figure.

The truth is that the Wii U would have taken off if this was as ground breaking as some people make it out to be.

The charts don't lie.

I take it you dont own one do you? Because if you did, then you would know thats not true imo.

What kind of logic is that ? In what dimension does one person experiencing the Wii U must be impressed ?
I played a bit on this console and I can say that I don't see it becoming a huge hit, there's nothing revolutionary about this system that will make it stand above the crowd.

 

[ii Stryker]

Sony really only revealed the 8Gb of GDDR5 RAM and 3 exclusives 2 of which were sequels of more of the same only prettier. everything else was cross gen. and no price or functioning features only promises.

Nintendo can only stave off the negativity by showing a LOT of third party support by the likes of a Bethesda RPG or GTA V and the like at E3. If this doesn't happen they're pretty well fucked.

This reveal of the PS4 wasn't damning but there's still E3 so we'll see.

 

[ThaGuy]

The way I look at it is by using a comparison with the ps2.

Remember when the gamecube and xbox were launching. Sony had metal gear solid and gta waiting for them. I believe that was the turning point for sony during that gen.

If Nintendo can get a mario game(kart or galaxy) and a zelda game(windwaker) when the ps4/720 launch, I believe they'll do just fine. I know it would be hard for me to skip out on those games.

 

[Takao]

I wasn't interested in Wii U before this presentation, and obviously this presentation wasn't going to make me interested in it either.

 

[Opiate]

I already tried this "feature" and it sucks, simple as that.

The only ones trying to elevate this stuff as something incredibly innovative are Nintendo apologists. Go figure.

The truth is that the Wii U would have taken off if this was as ground breaking as some people make it out to be.

The charts don't lie.

I agree, and I think it's hard to argue otherwise right now. It doesn't mean you can't personally like the Wii U; that's completely fine. Nor does this spell the final, ultimate death of the Wii U. But evidence is mounting fairly quickly to suggest most other people aren't incredibly excited by this platform.

 

[marc^o^]

I already tried this "feature" and it sucks, simple as that.

Not that simple kid. What sucks?

 

[spock]

I already tried this "feature" and it sucks, simple as that.

The only ones trying to elevate this stuff as something incredibly innovative are Nintendo apologists. Go figure.

The truth is that the Wii U would have taken off if this was as ground breaking as some people make it out to be.

The charts don't lie.


What kind of logic is that ? In what dimension does one person experiencing the Wii U must be impressed ?
I played a bit on this console and I can say that I don't see it becoming a huge hit, there's nothing revolutionary about this system that will make it stand above the crowd.

Not really, becuase the software to power that innovation has not been fully realized or demonstrated yet. The tech it self is a canvas for certain design and gameply innovations, but until there are games showing that...all we have is a funky tablet controller. The current software and experinces show glimpses of the potential, thats it.

 

[thehypocrite]

I don't think the lack of demand for Wii U is affected by the reveal of the PS4. The problem of Wii U is that's outsold by older systems (360/PS3) with a comparable price because of weakness of it's game catalog and lack of perceived value of it's more unique features in regards to them.

So I go with no change.

 

[Margalis]

But that thread is on neogaf, which is is completely irrelevant when it comes to the mass market.

Mass market was highly negative on the PS4 reveal. So yeah.

Edit: As far as off-screen play, the general consensus is that it's awesome. It's cool if people don't care for it but the general reaction from people who have used it is overwhelmingly positive. And why wouldn't it be? You can play a full-fledged console game with your TV off or in your bedroom. Man - that sucks!

I played a bit on this console and I can say that I don't see it becoming a huge hit, there's nothing revolutionary about this system that will make it stand above the crowd.

What's revolutionary about PS4 again? Another Killzone? A share button?

By that metric Durango and Orbis will both completely flop. Not that whether or not something is revolutionary matters that much, but if you want revolutionary you probably want Occulus Rift or something.

 

[Rocky]

I take it you dont own one do you? Because if you did, then you would know thats not true imo.

Honestly, I have a Wii U and I don't think off TV play is impressive at all. I've been playing handhelds for years when I don't want to play on the TV.

The fact that Remote Play allows you to play your games when you're away from home is more impressive to me. Because that's when I would want to play a console game off the TV, when I am away from home and from my TV.

 

[ThaGuy]

I already tried this "feature" and it sucks, simple as that.

The only ones trying to elevate this stuff as something incredibly innovative are Nintendo apologists. Go figure.

The truth is that the Wii U would have taken off if this was as ground breaking as some people make it out to be.

The charts don't lie.


What kind of logic is that ? In what dimension does one person experiencing the Wii U must be impressed ?
I played a bit on this console and I can say that I don't see it becoming a huge hit, there's nothing revolutionary about this system that will make it stand above the crowd.

I can understand where you are coming from and why you might find it unimpressive at this point in time of the wii u's life, but why are you making your opinion out to be fact.

 

[Eideka]

I agree, and I think it's hard to argue otherwise right now.

To specify, I'm not outright claiming that the Wii U won't meet success.

It has a strong line up of quality 1st party games but fact remains that it has not gathered sufficient momentum to fill me with confidence regarding the outcome of its confrontation with the PS4/720 which are going to be efficient at multitasking and gaming. Where does that leave the Wii U ? Hell, some people that I know have bought a Wii don't even know what the Wii U is supposed to be ! That may be completely anecdotal but I wouldn't be surprised if the mass market does not know either.

It doesn't mean you can't personally like the Wii U; that's completely fine. Nor does this spell the final, ultimate death of the Wii U. But evidence is mounting fairly quickly to suggest most other people aren't incredibly excited by this platform.

That's correct, and yet you can see many people flatly refusing to even ponder over the console not being able to compete with MS and Sony.

I can understand where you are coming from and why you might find it unimpressive at this point in time of the wii u's life, but why are you making your opinion out to be fact.

My apologies if I have offended you. No, I'm not even trying to dissimulate the fact that this is merely my opinion.
I'm not an analyst or a market researcher, I'm not nostradamus, I'm not a soothsayer, I'm just a gamer.

 

[thehypocrite]

The way I look at it is by using a comparison with the ps2.

Remember when the gamecube and xbox were launching. Sony had metal gear solid and gta waiting for them. I believe that was the turning point for sony during that gen.

If Nintendo can get a mario game(kart or galaxy) and a zelda game(windwaker) when the ps4/720 launch, I believe they'll do just fine. I know it would be hard for me to skip out on those games.

This is an argument that I think lacks context, The gamecube had all these franchises and wasn't able to take a significant slice of the market, why do you think it's going to be different for the Wii U?

The only reason why the Wii took off it's because it's idea of gaming and value proposition was clear and something that consumers wanted, Wii U is way more complicated as a gaming console in regards to the Wii, it's like if Nintendo is trying to be more CORE focused while forgetting that their image and the content they have, don't align anymore with the current composition of the western bro gamer. It seems the Wii U it's a console made for a target audience they can't resonate with. I hope they turn it around but I don't think the issue is the absence of Nintendo CORE frachises that everyone expects to be there in the first place.

 

[richiek]

Yeah, this bs excuse that some nintendo fans like to throw around really makes my head hurt.

People have been saying that the PS4's graphics were going to be such a quantum leap that Wii U would be not be able to compete. After this weeks presentation, the graphic improvements were not as drastic as Sony and their advocates have been saying. So the the "slightly shinier" moniker still applies.

 

[linkboy]

Um, you could do off TV play with some PS3 games on the PSP, so wouldn't it be a last gen feature then?

Except for the fact that it ran like pure shit, was dependent on your internet connection and the controls sucked since the PSP doesn't have as many buttons as a DS3.

 

[popeutlal]

Mass market was highly negative on the PS4 reveal. So yeah.

Mass market hasn't had the chance to try out the PS4 yet, they have the Wii U...and it's been rejected.

 

[Margalis]

Mass market hasn't had the chance to try out the PS4 yet, they have the Wii U...and it's been rejected.

The mass market also rejected the 3DS. Which is why the Vita is now totally stomping it. Right?

 

[cyberheater]

Mass market hasn't had the chance to try out the PS4 yet, they have the Wii U...and it's been rejected.

Unfortunately. I'm forced to agree with you.

3D Mario and Mariokart better be stellar or I'm going to extremely pissed off for buying a WiiU.

 

[Eideka]

People have been saying that the PS4's graphics were going to be such a quantum leap that Wii U would be not be able to compete. After this weeks presentation, the graphic improvements were not as drastic as Sony and their advocates have been saying. So the the "slightly shinier" moniker still applies.

Yes, yes it was. Haven't you seen Killzone Shadow Fall ?

How can you say that this isn't a giant leap ? People were debating whether or not this was CGI !

I know Nintendo boys have tried to downplay the next-gen visuals ever since it became obvious that the Wii U couldn't compete on that ground, but it's time for them to face reality and to understand that the gap between the next-gen consoles and the Wii U is going to be incredible.
KZ Shadow Fall is a launch game and will run at 1080p, how is that disappointing ?
Even as a PC gamer primarily I was literally blown away by the footage, the new Infamous looks stunning as well.

This is is, finally, this is next-gen.

 

[Hoo-doo]

The mass market also rejected the 3DS. Which is why the Vita is now totally stomping it. Right?

The mass market rejected the 3DS at it's original price point. Did you forget?

 

[ThaGuy]

This is an argument that I think lacks context, The gamecube had all these franchises and wasn't able to take a significant slice of the market, why do you think it's going to be different for the Wii U?

The only reason why the Wii took off it's because it's idea of gaming and value proposition was clear and something that consumers wanted, Wii U is way more complicated as a gaming console in regards to the Wii, it's like if Nintendo is trying to be more CORE focused while forgetting that their image and the content they have, don't align anymore with the current composition of the western bro gamer. It seems the Wii U it's a console made for a target audience they can't resonate with. I hope they turn it around but I don't think the issue is the absence of Nintendo CORE frachises that everyone expects to be there in the first place.

I think the gamecube was a little to late with some software. Smash bros was there a month afterwards and then it took to long to get more games released. Sony already had a stranglehold on the market.

With the Wii U, they have the year to get software ready for the launch of the other next gen consoles which is what I was getting at with the ps2 comparison.

 

[gamergirly]

People have been saying that the PS4's graphics were going to be such a quantum leap that Wii U would be not be able to compete. After this weeks presentation, the graphic improvements were not as drastic as Sony and their advocates have been saying. So the the "slightly shinier" moniker still applies.

Neither the 360 nor the PS3 have a $150 interactive Gamepad either. I would say slightly shinier and much more innovative

 

[gamergirly]

Yes, yes it was. Haven't you seen Killzone Shadow Fall ?

How can you say that this isn't a giant leap ? People were debating whether or not this was CGI !

I know Nintendo boys have tried to downplay the next-gen visuals ever since it became obvious that the Wii U couldn't compete on that ground, but it's time for them to face reality and to understand that the gap between the next-gen consoles and the Wii U is going to be incredible.
KZ Shadow Fall is a launch game and will run at 1080p, how is that disappointing ?
Even as a PC gamer primarily I was literally blown away by the footage, the new Infamous looks stunning as well.

This is is, finally, this is next-gen.

LOL. Okay that's just funny

 

[thehypocrite]

The mass market also rejected the 3DS. Which is why the Vita is now totally stomping it. Right?

They never did that, they rejected the bullshit high price that Nintendo did based on the apparent hype around the system just to rip off consumers.

http://www.bloomberg.co.jp/news/123-L9HYAJ6TTDS001.html

http://www.vooks.net/iwata-says-3ds-priced-high-because-of-hype/

Don't understand why this has been quickly forgotten.

 

[Margalis]

The mass market rejected the 3DS at it's original price point. Did you forget?

And then the price went down. Did you forget?

I was about to say "spam some killzone gifs" but I guess that just happened. Lol.

This is the same sort of damage control people did when PS3 was struggling. Spam killzone gifs!

 

[Eideka]

LOL. Okay that's just funny

Care to elaborate ?
Regardless I'm glad you found my post funny, at least you didn't read it for nothing.

 

[Margalis]

This is is, finally, this is next-gen.

Your second gif is from a PC game.

Next-gen is an on-rails turret sequence and a game running on a laptop. Oh, and Diablo 3.

 

[ugoo18]

If you can stream every PS4 game to your Vita, Nintendo is in a worse position than before.

Nintendo has to show some cool games at the E3 and drop the price of the WiiU. It won't sell as good as the Wii, but 20-30 million sold consoles in the next five years are very likely.

No they are not.

No one in their right mind is going to buy a console that at the very least will cost $350 and a $60 game + a $250 handheld just to get something similar to off TV Play.

$600+ (PS4 + Game + Vita) vs $350+ (WiiU + Game, for that same $600 you could get 4 additional games with the WiiU)

What happens when Nintendo starts releasing dual gamepad games then?

For a similar dual gamepad off tv play experience your now looking at $850+

Just like no realistic 3rd Party would release a PS4 game that requires a second screen in a critical way like ZombiU for instance (Expecting the customer to either have a Vita or go an purchase one just to play their game is ridiculous to say the least)

PS4 to PSV streaming is a nice 'me too' feature but that's all that it is, the PSV being a separate system already handicaps it and will continue to handicap it through out the upcoming generation.

 

[spock]

Mass market hasn't had the chance to try out the PS4 yet, they have the Wii U...and it's been rejected.

The mass market barley know there is a wiiu. But I bet you take a bunch of the broader market and let them play games from the ps4 and games from the wiiu, that they will see the wiiu as more nextgen simply because the controller creates a new experinces more so then updated visuals.

Heres the kicker, there is very little you can do on visuals alone with the ps4 or any console to grab the mass market through "wow" factor, however the wiiu does offer an easy to graps experince that potentially could grab the mass market.

That is a big difference. For nintendo the roadblock is marketing/awarness and that key innovative mass appeal software. For sony the problem is fundemental to the hardware design phiolosphy, which is what the media is resonating. Sony created (in their own words) a canvas for software developers.

The thing is, how many console software developers are good at creating gaming experinces that appeal to the broader market. Not that many. The best console software developer for doing that is nintendo. It doesnt gurantee anything for them but they have the best shot.

Nintendo the last few years has shown they are god at surprising us and creating gaming with broader appeal. They are going to focus on that once again. Its just we havent seen behind their current yet.

 

[PdotMichael]

Even if the PS4 is not a big jump compared to the current gen but why should I and the other 150 million owners of a PS3 and 360 buy a Wii U then?

I don't understand the logic behind talking the PS4 small, it would reduce the Wii U even more to an expensive gimmick.

 

[hwy_61]

The mass market barley know there is a wiiu. But I bet you take a bunch of the broader market and let them play games from the ps4 and games from the wiiu, that they will see the wiiu as more nextgen simply because the controller creates a new experinces more so then updated visuals.

Heres the kicker, there is very little you can do on visuals alone with the ps4 or any console to grab the mass market through "wow" factor, however the wiiu does offer an easy to graps experince that potentially could grab the mass market.

That is a big difference. For nintendo the roadblock is marketing/awarness and that key innovative mass appeal software. For sony the problem is fundemental to the hardware design phiolosphy, which is what the media is resonating. Sony created (in their own words) a canvas for software developers.

The thing is, how many console software developers are good at creating gaming experinces that appeal to the broader market. Not that many. The best console software developer for doing that is nintendo. It doesnt gurantee anything for them but they have the best shot.

Nintendo the last few years has shown they are god at surprising us and creating gaming with broader appeal. They are going to focus on that once again. Its just we havent seen behind their current yet.

I agree with you, and to add to your point, I think Nintendo will have to have big surprises at E3. They've got to focus on the Gamepad feature. Give people a reason to buy this damn thing, because graphics will not do it alone!

 

[amstradcpc]

Your second gif is from a PC game.

Next-gen is an on-rails turret sequence and a game running on a laptop. Oh, and Diablo 3.

Then wiiu u is an Ipod?.