I don't like to take part in these kind of discussion, but here is where I think it's not cool. I have a Wii U. I really like the Off-TV play feature that the GamePad offers. I really believe that it's next gen technology powering this feature. Why does this make me a 'Nintendo apologist'?
The Wii U in a worse or better shape after the PS4 reveal?
- Thread starter JaxJag
- Start date
I don't like to take part in these kind of discussion, but here is where I think it's not cool. I have a Wii U. I really like the Off-TV play feature that the GamePad offers. I really believe that it's next gen technology powering this feature. Why does this make me a 'Nintendo apologist'?
ThaGuy
Member
No offense taken over here. Just good conversation between two gamers opinions.
So the PS4's b-teir, latency riddled remote play solution is better than the Wii U's dedicated, latency-free streaming technology? Give me a break man.
This. It's obvious that the PS4 is stronger than the Wii U, no one is denying that. However, both the Wii U and the PS4 are "slightly shinier" than current gen consoles and they both fit the next gen moniker. The PS4 just fits the bill even more so. In summary, both consoles are next gen, and the rift isn't as large as the disillusioned tend to believe (even though there is a rift).
Did you forget that the 3DS sold more consoles at this "unacceptable" price point at launch than the Vita has sold world wide after a year on the market despite such rejection?
Have to agree. I hope for both consoles to do good. "Competition" like this is good for the industry and there's a place for both to co-exist since they both offer unique things.
I would hate if it ends up like last gen once the dust settled with PS3/360 and it was constantly a question of which one to get since they were relatively similar in offerings.
I agree with this, the WiiU is competing with the PS3.
For any console better graphics was always the core argument for people to buy a new console when the established ones have the better game library.
The lacking leap in graphics is not going to make wiiu suddenly more relevant but the ps4 and 720 will be a harder sell to the audience you are talking about.
Being a competitor has nothing to do with technology. It had to do with the fact that its going to be on the market and will try to get money from similar people for similar needs
Actually I think for nintendo the wiiu is isnt competing with anyone but aspiring to follow the path as close as they can of the original wii.
"HEY MOM LOOK I CAN FLAME ASWELL!"
ThaGuy
Member
This is how every gamer should think. I would like all three console makers to do good this gen. Im tired of hearing about game companies layoffs/shutdowns. We lost some damn good companies over the last 10 years. It hurts that I probably wont ever play another timesplitters, rouge squadron, eternal darkness, etc.
Is diverting the discussion to the poor sales of the Vita truly the only argument you got?
Chuck Norris
Banned
That's not comparable or accurate. PS2 was one of the biggest console launches of all time. It sold quickly based on the compelling factor of having DVD playback and it had already gotten Final Fantasy X, Devil May Cry, Jak and Daxter, SSX, Silent Hill 2, ICO and a little game called Gran Turismo 3 well before GC or Xbox came out.
2001 PS2 probably had one of the richest lineups for a single system of all time. You can't say the same for WiiU in 2013
Vane_MagicCity
Banned
Are you claiming that anyone who has tried it will like it?
Majmun
Member
Depressingly Realistic indeed.
People thinking that the big publishers havn't made their decision for next gen yet are only lying to themselves.
And their decision is the Ps4 and the next Xbox. Just like last gen. It's the safest bet with the largest userbase.
I made my arguments.
A guy posted a picture of a PC game and called it a game that couldn't be done on PC. After that I'm not sure what more can be done other than having a little fun.
Nothing about the PS4 reveal was shocking. It was pretty much what any informed person already expected. Does the fact that the PS4 does in fact exist make the Wii U look worse? I don't see why it would, unless you believed it was vaporware.
Personally what Sony showed was on the low end of my expectations, at least on the software side. Knowing that Diablo 3 is coming to PS4 doesn't make me less excited for Pikmin.
Vane_MagicCity
Banned
We already knew that the WiiU would be on the weak side again but we didn't not how big the gap would be. I think that the PS4 reveal showed us how big the gap would be. 8 GB GDDR5 vs 2 GB DDR3 and 8 Core CPU vs 3 Core CPU are a nice sized gap. We can assume the 720 will be closer to the PS4 than to the WiiU.
I think the WiiU looks worse after the PS4 reveal.
I think the WiiU looks worse after the PS4 reveal.
No no. Not claiming that at all. That's my own opinion. My issue with what he said was that he claimed that just because I personally think it's a next-gen, groundbreaking feature, that I'm a Nintendo apologist...which I'm not. I am indeed a Nintendo fan, but I'm well and aware of their faults.
Also, I will be getting a PS4 in the future for 'TEH GRAFIX', lol...and because I like Sony's exclusives.
It's a gap, but thank God it's not the same size gap as the PS360 to the Wii was. Downports will be just that, downports (if developers even bother), but I still think that Nintendo might have a chance with some titles.
Also, this is Nintendo we're talking about here. They WILL make some pretty astonishing looking games on their hardware.
prag16
Banned
Zero user base is the largest?
Why don't we see how many people actually buy these things first.
Again, please accept my apologies if you felt offended. I never voluntarily implied as such, but there's some truth to it, the most hardcore defenders of the Wii U's gamepad are the ones who try way too hard to damage control as much as possible. I'm impressed by their natural ability to put a positive spin on any criticism.
I wonder what they have to say now that we know what kind of visuals we should look forward to.
That's okay man, it's all about gameplay anyway™
Oh I know what you're talking about, and I've seen it here on GAF. So I can understand the frustration.
I watched the Meeting. I saw Killzone. It's freakin gorgeous. The Wii U will not reach that level of visual fidelity, but I still believe that it can produce some very nice looking titles. There's a reason people keep posting that X gif. Not trying to compare and contrast because I know that Killzone looks better, but X is still a very nice looking game.
If you look at this christmas. What will launch titles look like? Will they have some big hitters that can selll similar numbers to mario kart ? Will people think Modernwarfare 4 looks much worse on Ps3 or wiiU than PS4 ?
People that care about 8GB GDDR will be very few and a chunk of those people may also be PC only players
Those comments don't frustrate or upset me, I find them very entertaining.
It's a nice looking current-gen game indeed. I'm well aware that the Wii U is definitely more powerful than the 360/PS3 (NFS Most Wanted has mild graphical enhancements) but nothing stroke me as particularly impressive. Not even the Zelda tech demo.I watched the Meeting. I saw Killzone. It's freakin gorgeous. The Wii U will not reach that level of visual fidelity, but I still believe that it can produce some very nice looking titles. There's a reason people keep posting that X gif. Not trying to compare and contrast because I know that Killzone looks better, but X is still a very nice looking game.
Hum...I'm not sure they won't care when they will see the visual gap between the best of the Wii U and an average next-gen title. Once again an attempt to downplay the importance of the specs as if it won't show in games.
GillianSeed79
Member
Sales numbers worked wonders in securing 3rd party support for Wii. I'm platform agnostic, but people are forgetting that when Wii was selling like hotcakes and the PS3 was collecting dust on store shelves, Sony was still receiving much more third party support. I want the WiiU to succeed, but I'm expecting a repeat of last gen when it comes to third parties.
TheNatural
My Member!
They care about power though, and they're the same type of people who have purchased a 360 that has kicked the Wii's ass the past two to three years, and the Wii U thus far the past 3 months and foreseeable future.
In other words, however it looks like, no one is buying the version of the franchise they want on a Wii U.
boyshine
Member
I'm very positive about Nintendo's chances at least the coming 2-3 years. I see a lot of comments about Nintendo wasting their first year, but I don't think that's the case at all. Nintendo simply saw the possibility of releasing the console early, without the complete firmware puzzle in place and with their big name games (sans NSMB) still 6-12 months away from being ready. I think that was a smart bet, but the results won't show until this holiday, where I think a Wii U with Mario Kart U, Galaxy sequel (yes/no/maybe), Wii Fit U, Wii Sports U (oh, it's coming..), Wind Waker HD, Yoshi U and Retro + same day multiplat releases is in a very good position to at least win the kids/family support, where I think both Sony and MS once again will have their main focus on the male 16+ audience. Beyond nostalgic fans (like myself) I don't believe Wii U will be able to attract that audience, unless they somehow stumble upon a new "GoldenEye" or "Halo"; an exclusive, must-have flagship title. 3rd party multiplatform releases won't help, no matter how solid the support is, so the one larger-than-life exclusive is the only key that will open the door to that audience on a Nintendo platform.
PdotMichael
Banned
"We" had the same discussion for the 360 and PS2 back in the days that the launch games doesn't look much much better.
The difference between PS4 and the next Xbox to the Wii U is that they will get the next-gen treatment from the third parties. Wii U doesn't even get ports of all current gen titles.
Steve Youngblood
Member
Why would positive results during the holiday season retroactively make the current situation -- where sales are currently (please don't cite the three month total as beating the 360/PS3) abysmal with no good indicators for improvement in the immediate future -- seem like a smart gamble?
prag16
Banned
I expect at least SOME publishers to be more cautious this time around considering how many dev houses went under last gen and the likelihood of even higher dev costs this gen.
But who knows, maybe nobody learned anything...
Oppo
Member
There aren't any booths at the mall with scores of people lining up to try the new Nintendo Thing. No mainstream buzz at all really.
3rd month sales have cratered.
I think it's in worse shape, but time will tell. I'm not willing to call anything of the sort until after E3. But yeah it looks kinda bad for Wii U, at least relative to the Wii. I don't think it'll get Dreamcasted or anything. But the lofty heights of last gen are over for them.
True fans won't care either way. Apologists will probably be insufferable for the next year but what can you do.
3rd month sales have cratered.
I think it's in worse shape, but time will tell. I'm not willing to call anything of the sort until after E3. But yeah it looks kinda bad for Wii U, at least relative to the Wii. I don't think it'll get Dreamcasted or anything. But the lofty heights of last gen are over for them.
True fans won't care either way. Apologists will probably be insufferable for the next year but what can you do.
Majmun
Member
Just like last gen, two consoles (PS360) will sell more than just one(Wii). And since we won't have leading consoles such as the Ps1 and Ps2 anymore, I'm most certain that Ms' and Sony's consoles together will outsell the Wii U.
Especially with WiiU's current hw sales and popularity (or the lack of them both). Both separately could even outsell Nintendo's effort at this rate.
If they both start at consumer-unfriendly prices, this will absolutely not happen, regardless of the Wii U's performance.
Thats not the kind of gap that that actually makes a difference in the eyes of most consumers. Direct marketing 101, your talking features when cosumers want and buy on perceived benefits.
Videogames sell on TANGIBLE experinces. 8GB has to be translated into an experince people can feel and understand. Its not the specs that make a game its how the specs are used. So specs are the canvas of the developer imgination but also the bottleneck.
The strength of the PS4 is its tech which manifests in visual experinces. The wiiU's strength is it's controller/tablet which manifests in more tacticle experinces.
Let me put the "gap" in a different perspective.
Sony has room to innovate from the visual side of things. So from this perspective they are on the positive side of the gap. Nintendo has room to innovate on tactile gaming expeirince itself, so from here they are on the positive side of the gap.
Now...which side has more room, leverage and possiblities?
Personally I would rather be in nintendos shoes then sony's. Nintendo has many more options and chances at creating wii level killer apps during the wiiu life cycle. Sony on the other hand is stuck "grinding it out" based on the pure tech paradigm.
Sony is tech driven, while nintendo is user experince driven.
Who do you think is in a better situation to "potentially" create next generation type success along the lines of wii sports, wii fit, brain age, etc?
On the flip side...
Who do you think is in a better position to "potentially" create next gen success along the COD, GTA, etc lines?
Now I think MS is going to try and play the middle and hit on both. Will see how they do.
And to those talking about vita streaming, etc. That kind of stuff has the same problem as move. It cost extra and is not part of the core systems philosphy.
Nintendo knows from the wii that if they are going to make something a key focus they need it to be part of the core and they have to be the ones to standardize it and show its capability through there own development.
Thats Sonys weakness and Nintendos strength. Nintendo is a game company first then a technology company where as sony is a tech company first and gaming second.
The problem with the PS4 right now is that there is really nothing thats been shown so far that will make the mass market jump to it over another console. Steaming games didn't take off the first time around. Better graphics and more powerful hardware don't equal mainstream sales. The Vita stuff is meh unless you have or want one and lets face it sales show most don't so far. These things together in one box could somehow appeal more or the mainstream can just still not care when it launches.
The problem with the Wii U is no existing game on it is selling it. The off TV play is not appealing enough alone to sell it. Being Nintendo's fist HD console is meh until they do something new with that extra power. Unlike the Wii they don't have anything with that instant appeal. Not launching with a Wii Sports title , better advertising , and more pre launch build up was a big blunder. It's pretty much the 3DS all over again only in a market that they don't dominate in every generation. Right now they need to get more games pumped out and better marketing to try to increase sales.
The problem with the Wii U is no existing game on it is selling it. The off TV play is not appealing enough alone to sell it. Being Nintendo's fist HD console is meh until they do something new with that extra power. Unlike the Wii they don't have anything with that instant appeal. Not launching with a Wii Sports title , better advertising , and more pre launch build up was a big blunder. It's pretty much the 3DS all over again only in a market that they don't dominate in every generation. Right now they need to get more games pumped out and better marketing to try to increase sales.
TheNatural
My Member!
Nintendo will never go third party. They have enough money to last forever with even Gamecube level sales, and would go handheld only with a TV out or dongle before anything else if things ever got Sega level.
And the second statement, I don't get why if part one is true of true fans not caring why part two is true as well and people have to act like idiots for the next year.
Fuck, most of my enthusiast gaming in my life was done on N64 and early to mid Gamecube life, even though I had an NES and SNES. Those two systems are the two worst selling Nintendo has ever released outside of Virtual Boy. It didn't bug me any. I was on message boards at the time, but I wasn't rambling on about how the next Final Fantasy was going to come to the N64 along with Metal Gear Solid and Tekken once third parties jump on the 64DD. I don't need to rationalize sales or what third parties will do to justify my purchases like some people need to.
For people that don't seem to care and only buy Nintendo games, they sure seem to care a hell of a lot about making up shit about how well its doing or what third parties are going to do when all evidence and common sense points in the opposite direction.
It's sad some people have to keep yelling "its going to become popular just like X system, just wait for Y!" to enjoy their system. If they really didn't give a fuck the wouldn't be on here trying to convince themselves that all these third party games are coming that aren't, and sales aren't horrible now and in the forseeable future.
Vane_MagicCity
Banned
It's not that people will care about the amount or type/speed of the RAM but people will care about the results. Maybe we should be running Windows 7/8 with 8 MB of EDO RAM because RAM isn't really that important?
I think many people assume that not having that wii sports killer app out of the gate was a blunder. While its not a good thing it may not be a blunder either. Saying that its a blunder implies that nintendo made the business decsion without knowledge that it would or could be a problem.
I highly doubt that...They knew they wouldnt have that killer app off the bat. They knew they would have sneak peak type apps but no true big gun. This begs the question, then why release knowing your going to be short on software and lacking a killer app?
I think there is an element of business strategy going on that most of us are unaware of. I do think part of it is to beta some of the wiiu on a large scale. I also think wanting time for the HD transition was a consideration. But I also think there are some lean and agile business philosphies at play in regards to value positioning, etc.
Given some time, perhaps e3, we will begin to see the software the wiiu was meant to showcase...
TheNatural
My Member!
Nintendo knew it would have a horrible launch, and have a secret strategy no one knows!
Wow I have really read it all. Companies don't put products out to fail for a year for nothing, anyone who releases a product expects it to succeed.
With the year one lineup of the Wii U and the horrible sales it's had and likely up until the holidays, if they knew now what was going to happen, I would bet almost anything they would have kept this thing in the oven for another year getting the UI working right, compiling a better games lineup, getting out better dev kits, finding more ways to cut costs and change hardware, and getting down production efficiency.
There's no strategy here, only poor planning and preparation. And since they basically nerfed the last two years of the Wii's life with basically no games, they couldn't let a dead legacy system sit on the shelves with absolutely no game releases for yet another year and hoped some smoke and mirrors would work and it didn't. That's basically it.
Steve Youngblood
Member
This strikes me as insanely off-the-mark analysis that seems more reliant on blind faith that Nintendo always makes good calls than it does on actual examination of reality. I think it's clear that it's performing well below Nintendo's expectations, and the reasons aren't difficult to ascertain. One is that I think they expected New Super Mario Bros. U and NintendoLand to carry the platform as real system-sellers moreso than they have. And the other -- and you can go back to Iwata's interviews with investors for this -- is that they expected third parties to help fill the current gap better than they have.
It's silly to look at the current situation and surmise that things may be going according to plan.
boyshine
Member
Because the console is out, even if it was a soft release, consumer awareness is increasing. Also developers are playing the console, seeing the possibilites for the GamePad. If we still don't see games announced for Q4 at E3, there's a real problem, but it takes time to switch generations, and it was better to release the console early, so they can use software to combat the new hardware releases this holiday. I don't see how Sony or Microsoft can compete with Wii U on the kids/family audience this holiday if Nintendo have the Mario Trio (NSMB+3D+Kart) + Fit + Sports + Yoshi. I don't think Sony is even trying to, they will keep focusing on PS3+Move this holiday for that audience. It takes 12-24 months for a console to find its audience and get games to sell it. For PS3 it took perhaps even longer.. and PS4 and Durango will be a slow process as well. Wii U will have a very different visibility starting the second half of this year, and a lot of what we'll see will be a direct result of those extra months.
I hugely enjoy the Off TV play feature and it gives the Wii U a next gen feel. I really find discussions like this stupid. Why does anyone have to be a Nintendo apoligist if they like something about the Wii U? That is an incredibly stupid opion in itself, sorry.
I could go the same way and say that you are a Sony apoligist because you claim to have seen mind blowing graphics while they were, IMO, not very advanced at all. I found the whole Sony conference to be quite boring but I still will be there day one because I know what to expect from them and I believe the PS4 will perfectly fill in the certain genres that the Wii U will be missing.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
I assume all Off TV Play aficionados own a Vita/or are planning the purchase of one in conjunction with a PS4 and dat next gen Gakai streaming. HD Console level games are what I've been playing on it in the house, away from the house, for a whole year already too. With cross platform initiatives theres also like a double library for PS3 owners. Lets also not espouse the "it has no games" line of argument when arguing about the library juggernaut that is the WiiU.
Of course this becomes an inconvenient truth for anyone rushing to the soap box and proclaiming Off TV Play as the best thing ever. I also don't know about anyone else but I purchased my HDTV and HD consoles to actually use the expensive things, not slide off into a side room or bed and never get a chance to utilise.
Of course this becomes an inconvenient truth for anyone rushing to the soap box and proclaiming Off TV Play as the best thing ever. I also don't know about anyone else but I purchased my HDTV and HD consoles to actually use the expensive things, not slide off into a side room or bed and never get a chance to utilise.
soundahfekz
Member
when in doubt, trash Vita apparently
Q
qizah
Unconfirmed Member
I don't know about others, but I'm not trying to convince myself of anything. We're in a thread discussing whether or not the Wii U is in a better position now or before the PS4 reveal. At least, the things I discussed with you earlier were with regards to third parties and sales - all relevant to the thread and not simply just for convincing myself on the Wii U. Neither of which I really care about since I know I'll get awesome Nintendo, with a few third party titles I want because of a certain feature or their uniqueness with the GamePad - AC3, ZombiU for example.
I'm not a person who is only going to be dedicated to one machine, so whatever is not offered on the Wii U I'll end up finding elsewhere; though I'm still undecided whether that means a PS4 or a PC for me.
TheNatural
My Member!
Soft release worked wonders for the Saturn. Third parties sure love to know a console is out and selling poorly rather than not being out at all, lemme tell ya.
Some of GAF should make a reality show that is an offshoot of that show Shark Tank. Instead of 5 CEO's sitting around investing money in a startup product, let 5 games sit around making decisions on how to sink gaming companies.
"No games? We need more marketing! Hit the marketing button that'll save it! It's not ready yet? Use out secret strategy, awareness! That with marketing will save everything!"
metalslimer
Member
Are people serious when they say the Wii U isn't competing with the PS3/PS4? That is just ludicrous. Nintendo made the Wii U because the Wii couldn't handle multiplats with the 360/PS3 like CoD. They said one of their primary objectives was to capture that high spending audience. Half of there launch lineup is ports from the other systems. How in the hell are they not competing? This about as bad of damage control as people trying to defend Vita saying it's not competing with the 3DS.
Steve Youngblood
Member
I think you're ignoring the damage that a poor launch can do to a brand. I'm not saying the situation is unsalvagable, but while good software will surely increase interest, I don't think sitting on the shelves as a piece of electronics that is available, but nobody wants, helps its future prospects.
Yeah. Let's pretend Vita streaming works as well and without latency just as the GamePad.
Off TV play is, definitely, one of my favourite features of the Wii U. And no, I'm not planning to buy a Vita, because so far all we have is promises without any concrete evidence it will work as well as the GamePad does. If, and only if, Vita and Gakai manage to make the same latency-free Off TV I would certainly consider picking one. Until there I don't think it's wise to put both on the same level. Just saying.
TheNatural
My Member!
Protip: when 90% of the posts follow the logic of "once X happens then we'll get Y" instead of looking at the here and now and what we have a pretty good idea of what's releasing for the rest of this year up until the holidays at least, it's a bunch of pie in the sky bullshitting.
We're talking multi million dollar companies here, investing time, money, and planning into games. Nintendo had their chance to prove themselves to third parties in the past three months and what will be the next six or so, and failed. You think any of these companies or games, outside of franchises like Madden, Call of Duty, and even Watch Dogs now who strive for market saturation on multiple platforms, are ever going to want to develop for Wii U again after those abysmal third party launch sales?
If there was a time to rack up sales a holiday launch is golden for it. Little first party competition and high attach rate usually drive third party sales. Then when you look at the NPD threads, and you see games for holiday months selling literally in the THOUSANDS or tens of thousands at most, you think anyone will want to ever want to support it again? The time was then to do it, not 10 months from now or two years from now. Thinking they'll have a change of heart just because for no reason is a lot of head patting and delusion.
Wow so you know how the consoles will sell up front because...?