Support NeoGAF

[Kenshin001]

Pretty sure GG have read the comments about spawn grenades a thousand times so I'm a bit disappointed we still get nothing but silence. They really need to hit the ground running and start either allaying some concerns or setting parameters and feeding out information about the nuts and bolts of the game.

For me, it's hard to get hyped for the game when there is the expectation they are going to screw it up like they did KZ3.

 

[meta4]

Pretty sure GG have read the comments about spawn grenades a thousand times so I'm a bit disappointed we still get nothing but silence. They really need to hit the ground running and start either allaying some concerns or setting parameters and feeding out information about the nuts and bolts of the game.

For me, it's hard to get hyped for the game when there is the expectation they are going to screw it up like they did KZ3.

They really need to interact with their fans better. Is anyone from GG a Gaffer?

 

[Kenshin001]

They really need to interact with their fans better. Is anyone from GG a Gaffer?

I think Tempy. They read this thread though.

 

[noah111]

Such an incredible backstory. I remember the actual timeline on the Killzone website a long time ago; it was beautiful and well designed.

Reading it again, I think one of the biggest issues with each game is not going into to detail over the course of the game about the complex relationships between the different factions. We see a large picture, but not some of the more intricate and unique details. It is understandable that the games are designed to depict the conflict and scale of the second extrasolar war, but there is so much detail left floating around that could really separate it from everything else out there. I have no issue with the game depicting the war, but we need to see more of the history of the universe and the different factions, groups, planets and politics that caused it. Don't sugar coat it or lighten it up. It is a dark history, but that is what makes it unique. A very grounded and harsh depiction of the future.

Hopefully Shadow Fall will take a very serious approach to its storytelling and not step aside from the complexities of politics and conflict. Make it a focal point of the game and the series going forward and take it seriously.

Exactly, I also remember that.

Agreed that they don't let you know enough to get immersed, it's like a 30m movie being made of a 500 page book; you can capture certain things but much ends up being left in between the lines and impossible to figure out unless you read the book.

Shadow Fall is an opportunity to learn about all that history, from the WW3 on Earth to the early beginnings of the UCN. I'm hoping the slightly more 'open world' elements (such as seeing people converse and whatnot) will help in that.

After all for us to know the Helghan struggle (or Vektan depending on perspective) we have to know their origins, which has never really been aptly explained before like it is in that backstory GG wrote up.

 

[TimeEffect]

Yes, the backstory is amazing! Never got a chance to read it in depth, but will do so with that wiki link.

I too really wish I could communicate with GG, on here or the forums. I just want to be assured that they will bring back what made K2 so great, but they really made it hard for me to have hope with them.

I just really hope that they read and understood the criticism during K3's time, and that they remember what they had with K2. But even with SF's demo, there is a clear lack of that K2 tension. I will withhold that judgment, though, as it seems to be just one section of a more diverse game, and the AI was incredibly poor due to presentation purposes, I hope. But, something like the lack of recoil in the guns just turned me off, and has me incredibly worried. Someone said it reminded them of Crysis, and it's been bothering me since. I mean, Killzone 2 had that oomph with the guns that I didnt see with the demo playthrough.

I much appreciate the brighter side of Vekta, not because I dont like K2's grayness, but because it fleshes out the backstory we so crave, but I do hope that they can maintain that rawness. If we can indeed play both sides and see it from both perspectives, then this can easily be a fantastic game.

I do hope that we get a strong cast. There was something so badass with Radec, it's such a shame what they did with the likeable characters.

 

[waypoetic]

I contacted Herman Hulst and the GG twitter account over the fact that the awesome backstory bit on their site isn't working (and hasn't for a long while); http://www.killzone.com/kz/storyline.psml

He said he'll look into it. Really want to re-read it all in preparation, as the back story is actually really dense and well written, with deep history of events we've never seen in any of the KZ events and whatnot.

Hopefully they'll get it back up somehow.

Did you tell them about the screw up that we were talking about?

 

[Sorral]

Maybe the story is really 30 years after what happened in KZ3, but the CS/demo we saw was an incident 9 years prior? Kinda like a prequel in the new game's storyline?

Just speculating. Pretty weird if it was a real error, because that's not a small one to make.

 

[noah111]

Yes, the backstory is amazing! Never got a chance to read it in depth, but will do so with that wiki link.

Although I knew that the KZ series for the most part focuses on two planets named Helghan and Vekta in the nearest start system to Earth, Alpha Centauri, I totally forgot how the latter got its name.

Although Vektans are now part of the ISA and wage war against Helghast, the irony is that the name of the planet was actually coined by Helghans (which was simply the Helghan Corporation fleet at the time), and they chose to name the second planet of the Alpha Centauri system Vekta after the CEO of the Helghan Corporation, Philip Vekta. :lol

Interesting little tidbit that I didn't realize.

[edit] It's also even more ironic because the Helghast say things like 'Vektan scum' and whatnot, but they're really talking about (essentially) the founder of their society.

Did you tell them about the screw up that we were talking about?

Yup. Was a bitch fitting into 140 characters, lemme tell ya.

 

[fixuis]

The spawn smoke also looked really cool.Needs squad spawning too.

yup the smoke looked awesome. A well placed spawn point plus spawning on squad leader really turned the tide of the battle.

 

[noah111]

Apparently 'Jamie Gray Hyder' who played as Danielle in True Blood, is acting (mocap? VO?) for Shadow Fall.

Herman tweeted "Scene we just did have me chills. We have such amazing talent to work with” to which she RT'd with "And we're lucky to have you!!", so I can only assume as much.

 

[Perkel]

I think it will end up as usual with lore.
Amazing lore, tons of things to learn good story arch.... NOT IN DAMN GAME.


Killzone 2 was worst offender. Literary it felt like just shooting mission ala Serious Sam rather than interesting FPS with good lore.

Guerilla need to learn a bit from Half life how to do pacing.

When i killed Radec i felt no joy or anything. It felt like i killed stronger random helgast instead General with backstory.

Now we see Shadow Fall which can have amazing lore as well and i am 99% sure there won't be even 5 minutes combined where you can learn lore or just put finger off.

 

[evolution]

Apparently 'Jamie Gray Hyder' who played as Danielle in True Blood, is acting (mocap? VO?) for Shadow Fall.

Herman tweeted "Scene we just did have me chills. We have such amazing talent to work with” to which she RT'd with "And we're lucky to have you!!", so I can only assume as much.

Interesting... she says she playing the lead too!

Jamie Gray Hyder ‏@JGHyder
Excited to finally announce I'll be playing the lead in the new Guerrilla Games KillZone 4: Shadow Fall for Sony Playstation 4!! #PS4

 

[RoboPlato]

Interesting... she says she playing the lead too!

Visari's daughter?

 

[noah111]

Interesting... she says she playing the lead too!

Didn't catch that, neat!

Wild prediction: Main character infiltrates the helghast at some point and slowly falls for Visari's daughter while appreciating the helghan struggle more, and eventually turning on the ISA. By murdering Rico.

 

[waypoetic]

Didn't catch that, neat!

Wild prediction: Main character infiltrates the helghast at some point and slowly falls for Visari's daughter while appreciating the helghan struggle more, and eventually turning on the ISA. By murdering Rico.

Yes.

Yeeeesss!

WITH FIRE!!

 

[Sephiroth503]

Wild prediction: Main character infiltrates the helghast at some point and slowly falls for Visari's daughter while appreciating the helghan struggle more, and eventually turning on the ISA. By murdering Rico.

Mother of God........

 

[Perkel]

Didn't catch that, neat!

Wild prediction: Main character infiltrates the helghast at some point and slowly falls for Visari's daughter while appreciating the helghan struggle more, and eventually turning on the ISA. By murdering Rico.

YEEEESSS YEEEESSS YESSSS

Their kids will have toys made of Rico bones.

 

[Mikey Jr.]

All helghast Elite shock troopers are women. You will play as lucas keller (isa special forces, first time ever seen in kz), and as the female helghast elite shock trooper (they were in kz3. They had blades in their wrists).

Count on it.

 

[jaosobno]

Didn't catch that, neat!

Wild prediction: Main character infiltrates the helghast at some point and slowly falls for Visari's daughter while appreciating the helghan struggle more, and eventually turning on the ISA. By murdering Rico.

I approve of this Ricocide.

 

[waypoetic]

All helghast Elite shock troopers are women. You will play as lucas keller (isa special forces, first time ever seen in kz), and as the female helghast elite shock trooper (they were in kz3. They had blades in their wrists).

Count on it.

No they're not. And you're thinking of the capture trooper :

 

[noah111]

One thing I hate about the KZ series is the lack of children, anywhere, ever. If they do have you kill Rico at some point, it would be an interesting twist if it turns out he has children/married (chick from KZ3?).

That said, I do hope they at least mention Sev/Rico in this, whether or not we directly see or interact with them ever, there needs to be some acknowledgment of their existence. And that they were ass holes.

 

[Sorral]

In Killzone 3

Spoiler

you blow up Helghan home planet

so they extend an olive branch to the Helghast? Start the game by

Spoiler

executing Rico

as part of a peace agreement?

I still want to play as helgast and kill rico.

I'm so glad they've left that garbage cast of characters behind. I hope this game is as fresh as possible.

Good it means a whole new cast and hopefully no more Rico.

30 years after KZ3? Does that mean Rico and Sev have been tried and executed for war crimes? If so, I'm in.

No. Played Killzone 2 a little after release. The story was bad and I really wanted to punch

Spoiler

Rico

(spoilered just in case anyone cares)

I hope so. Because while I enjoyed the Campaign in 2 & 3 I didn't give a fuck what was going on. I'm happy they went with all new characters. Fuck Sev , Rico, and the ISA.

wait so no shithead rico?

im now 100% interested

I'd be surprised if Rico wasn't executed or atleast jailed for life for what they did to the helgast.

Please let there be no Rico in this game!

I hope the game starts with old man Rico in a chair, alone and reviled by everyone, only to be assassinated brutally by one of the cloaked Helgast as revenge

Cut to "SHADOW FALL"

And there is more. Plus the ones on this page, which I find all justified. I went through the search in posts to see if it was a lot more people and it really was.

Is Rico one of the top 5~10 hated characters of all time or at least this generation?
Tbh, I'd say yes. I too hate him for all the stupid things he did in the series .

Spoiler

One that I will never forget is when he was the cause of Garza's death. That moment made me really dislike his character and him being in the series after like nothing happened. Hell, KZ2's ending too. -_-

Edit: Someone said GG were reading this thread?

That said, I do hope they at least mention Sev/Rico in this, whether or not we directly see or interact with them ever, there needs to be some acknowledgment of their existence. And that they were ass holes.

Me too. I want them to be at least mentioned and say what happened to them.

 

[Callibretto]

One thing I hate about the KZ series is the lack of children, anywhere, ever. If they do have you kill Rico at some point, it would be an interesting twist if it turns out he has children/married (chick from KZ3?).

That said, I do hope they at least mention Sev/Rico in this, whether or not we directly see or interact with them ever, there needs to be some acknowledgment of their existence. And that they were ass holes.

I think KZ mercenaries have a kid in there, let me try to find a pic

edit: couldn't find pic, but here's Mercenary plot synopsis
http://killzone.wikia.com/wiki/Killzone_Mercenary

"Starting just after the ending of the original Killzone, and revisiting many of the events from the Killzone trilogy, the game puts players in the rugged combat boots of a mercenary named Arran Danner. Danner is a former UCA-soldier who has no qualms about taking on paid contracts from the ISA as well as the Helghast.

When a seemingly routine mission to evacuate the Vektan Ambassador and his family in Pyrrhus goes awry, Danner discovers that the outcome of the war could very well depend on the fate of the Ambassador’s young son. With both sides going through increasingly desperate lengths to get hold of the boy, he begins to wonder whether the price of victory is really worth the paycheck"

so, I think the ending of Mercenary could be setting up how Helghan got to live side by side in Shadow Fall.

 

[Number45]

So all this talk of the story has me hankering to go back through all of the games (I've completed them all at some point). Is the trilogy really not available via PSN? Seems like it's not readily available in disc format either (at least not without paying full retail price).

 

[Callibretto]

So all this talk of the story has me hankering to go back through all of the games (I've completed them all at some point). Is the trilogy really not available via PSN? Seems like it's not readily available in disc format either (at least not without paying full retail price).

all the interesting story tidbit is not present in the game unfortunately

 

[noah111]

So all this talk of the story has me hankering to go back through all of the games (I've completed them all at some point). Is the trilogy really not available via PSN? Seems like it's not readily available in disc format either (at least not without paying full retail price).

Not worth bothering tbh. :lol Story wise you'll get more by reading through GG's official back story. It's no longer on their site but here's a wiki of it that thankfully copied everything.

Reading through it now (last time I did so was pre-KZ2) and it's epic. So multifaceted with the UCN/UCA, ISA, ICSA, Helghast, Vektans, etc. Real-world type of 'shades of gray'.

I think KZ mercenaries have a kid in there, let me try to find a pic
edit: couldn't find pic, but here's Mercenary plot synopsis
http://killzone.wikia.com/wiki/Killzone_Mercenary

Ahh, interesting. Been a bit out of the loop lately so I hadn't caught up on Mercenary.

 

[Number45]

all the interesting story tidbit is not present in the game unfortunately

Not worth bothering tbh. :lol Story wise you'll get more by reading through GG's official back story. It's no longer on their site but here's a wiki of it that thankfully copied everything.

You both missed the point where I said I'd already completed them?

Enjoyed all of them (yes, even the original on PS2) and I'd like to play them again. I have read (and will reread) the timeline, but I love the presentation of the games, and to be honest I'd also like to replay KZ3 without the Move (the implementation was absolutely fine, but there are times when quick turning was required (one spot that I can think of in particular) that I think I'll enjoy it more with the DS3).

 

[Alienous]

All helghast Elite shock troopers are women. You will play as lucas keller (isa special forces, first time ever seen in kz), and as the female helghast elite shock trooper (they were in kz3. They had blades in their wrists).

Count on it.

I don't think they were female in the final game. This is the concept:

 

[Drencrom]

Visari's daughter?

She's an old hag by KZ:SF (30yrs after KZ3), most definitely a new character.

 

[Sorral]

The capture troopers(that's what they were called iirc) in KZ3 were not females like that concept art. First time I see that one.

She's an old hag by KZ:SF (30yrs after KZ3), most definitely a new character.

She would be around 50. Not an old hag, but def. not someone that actor would represent/do mo-cap for.

 

[Acquiescence]

As someone who has never played a Killzone game before... why does everyone hate this Rico chap? Is it a personality thing, or does he commit some act of atrocity at some stage during the series? Don't worry about spoilers, I don't really care.

 

[archnemesis]

As someone who has never played a Killzone game before... why does everyone hate this Rico chap? Is it a personality thing, or does he commit some act of atrocity at some stage during the series? Don't worry about spoilers, I don't really care.

It's a combination of both. He's just an unlikable asshole. The protagonist in K2/K3 isn't much better. I'm a fan of the series, but I don't sympathize with any of the characters.

 

[noah111]

She's an old hag by KZ:SF (30yrs after KZ3), most definitely a new character.

She would be around 50. Not an old hag, but def. not someone that actor would represent/do mo-cap for.

Could just as easily be Visari's granddaughter.

 

[Number45]

As someone who has never played a Killzone game before... why does everyone hate this Rico chap? Is it a personality thing, or does he commit some act of atrocity at some stage during the series? Don't worry about spoilers, I don't really care.

As said, he's a dick in dialogue (oddly I don't recall him being quite such a caricature in KZ1) and commits multiple acts of atrocity throughout the games.

 

[Violater]

. But in clan battles were tacticians know what they are doing and game plan to set it up was a Beauty to execute.

Problem is beside warzone, nobody gives a crap about team but just kills

Thank you, the problem was not the mobile spawn but the people throwing them down.

 

[Shikoro]

As someone who has never played a Killzone game before... why does everyone hate this Rico chap? Is it a personality thing, or does he commit some act of atrocity at some stage during the series? Don't worry about spoilers, I don't really care.

I really don't mind him that much (except for one thing), but to answer your question: he's generally considered to be a dick with his bossing around, swearing like a trooper and acting like a bad ass mofo. The thing I didn't like was that

Spoiler

he is responsible for killing Garza,

one of the awesome characters in KZ2. RIP. ;_;

 

[Number45]

Thank you, the problem was not the mobile spawn but the people throwing them down.

I was always too scared to play the tactician because I couldn't get the hang of placing those damn things well, or facing them the right way. Still think I had the most fun in the game with the Scout - loved planting C4 and hearing the random "pling" sound as some poor unfortunate triggered it from across the map. ^_^

EDIT: All this talk of KZ2 multi. Trying to convince my work colleagues to get back into the game.

 

[Perkel]

As someone who has never played a Killzone game before... why does everyone hate this Rico chap? Is it a personality thing, or does he commit some act of atrocity at some stage during the series? Don't worry about spoilers, I don't really care.

I played only KZ2 and part of KZ3 and he is easily one of the worst side characters ever in gaming. What is worse is that GG every single time ties him to you.

He is not your regular dudebro he is just annoying and tree has more character than Rico.

Thanks to him mostly we wish to play Helgast fighting ISA.

 

[Hypereides]

Would be pretty awesome if the new voice for the Helghan people was a woman; A Queen, Empress, Ambassador, minister or something to that order.

There's a severe lack of female main- and supporting characters in the Killzone universe. Shadow Fall should change that.

 

[Number45]

Thanks to him mostly we wish to play Helgast fighting ISA.

He's not the only reason. The timeline that's been posted paints a far less black and white picture of the conflict, that sadly doesn't come across in the games.

 

[Perkel]

He's not the only reason. The timeline that's been posted paints a far less black and white picture of the conflict, that sadly doesn't come across in the games.

Yeah all that lore is not ingame. Game is wub wub pew pew go go where lore is really interesting.

 

[SolidSnakex]

There's a severe lack of female main- and supporting characters in the Killzone universe. Shadow Fall should change that.

Which is shocking given that Luger was such a good character. Far more interesting than those in KZ2 and KZ3. Both from a gameplay and story perspective.

 

[Seventy_X_Seven]

In regards to spawn grenades, I don't think they should be destructible. Put a limit on how many can spawn from it, but definitely not destructible. All those times in Killzone 2 where the enemy pushes you back and starts camping all the exits to your main spawn, sprinting out and tossing a spawn grenade was the only way to assure that you would at least make it out of your base for awhile. KZ3 really sucked here because once you started getting camped there was nothing you could do. And speaking of which, they should really design the main spawns better so it isn't possible to camp all the exits.

all the interesting story tidbit is not present in the game unfortunately

While true, the Killzone trilogy is still definitely worth playing through again after you read the time line.

 

[Razgreez]

Which is shocking given that Luger was such a good character. Far more interesting than those in KZ2 and KZ3. Both from a gameplay and story perspective.

Still doesn't beat Colonel Gregor Hakha though. A shotgun favoring gentleman and scholar

 

[Violater]

I was always too scared to play the tactician because I couldn't get the hang of placing those damn things well, or facing them the right way. Still think I had the most fun in the game with the Scout - loved planting C4 and hearing the random "pling" sound as some poor unfortunate triggered it from across the map. ^_^

EDIT: All this talk of KZ2 multi. Trying to convince my work colleagues to get back into the game.

Mobile spawn points are actually one of the most tactical mechanics in a FPS, they worked well when used properly in KZ2 and they make a world of difference in BF3.

 

[Kenshin001]

Apparently 'Jamie Gray Hyder' who played as Danielle in True Blood, is acting (mocap? VO?) for Shadow Fall.

Herman tweeted "Scene we just did have me chills. We have such amazing talent to work with” to which she RT'd with "And we're lucky to have you!!", so I can only assume as much.

So, her acting experience is playing a werewolf on TV. Not really encouraging.

 

[SolidSnakex]

"There's a series of escalating events that will happen across the game and you need to make sure the cold war stays where it is. As you know these things can become a powder keg ready to explode, so that's sort of the premise where we're coming from with the game," he tells CVG

Hulst continues: "We've put in a lot of effort over the last couple of years and this is a brand new direction for the game. It's a new hero, a new conflict, it's an all new world that we're creating. We're trying to create this living, vibrant world that people want to be in and want to have a reason to fight for, so that's kind of the premise that we started with."

Guerrilla is eager to point out to us, however, that the demo showed only a fraction of the overall picture.

"The thing is, when you demonstrate a title for launch you want to do something that's in your game and is part of the core experience," Hulst explained.

"So we picked something that's very central in our game, with Vector City, this futuristic city which is at the heart of the game experience, and obviously we picked something that demos reasonably well.

"There's going to be - and we'll talk about this at later events - a lot of player choice and things like that, but some of those things don't demo as nicely, so we picked something that has a beginning and an end while at the same time shows off some cool new features.

"The guys who made it are no longer in an ivory tower in Tokyo, [the development has been] shared with us and not just with us, but with Evolution, Santa Monica, Naughty Dog, everybody and together we've built the machine.

"They've made sure that all the focus is just on how we can make the games as good as possible."

The console's power is only one aspect of the PlayStation 4 that Guerrilla helped design. The new controller, the DualShock 4, was also the result of a collaboration between Guerrilla and other development teams. Each team told Sony exactly what it was looking for from Sony in terms of the genres they were most familiar with working on.

Evolution Studios offered feedback on the motion control aspects with racing games in mind, while Guerrilla asked for the controller to be more suited to FPS gaming.

"It's a great controller for an FPS," ter Heide says.

"For example, there are little tweaks to the indentation on the sticks, where you have your thumbs on them, we've slightly raised them so there's a little bit more precision. They're slight changes but they make a huge difference."

Hulst agrees: "I think it's a big step forward from what we have [on PS3]. It feels incredibly accurate, in your hands it feels solid, it feels really high quality with the materials that have been used, it feels like you're in control and particularly with that feeling of being a Shadow Marshal, this big hero guy with extra capabilities, it's very suitable. And like we said earlier, we've been feeding back on what it should be for so long that I think we have what we wanted to have. It's very suitable for Killzone."

"The number of hours of feedback we've given on [the controller] to get it exactly to what we want - with the outward curving triggers, the indentations - and from all these different studios doing the same thing, it's a lot of detailed stuff, making games but also making hardware for games," Hulst says.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/393510/killzone-shadow-fall-preview-ps4/

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Didn't catch that, neat!

Wild prediction: Main character infiltrates the helghast at some point and slowly falls for Visari's daughter while appreciating the helghan struggle more, and eventually turning on the ISA. By murdering Rico.

Beautiful. So beautiful

 

[UnluckyKate]

people should not expect a more open game. Remember this is first gen, lauch title. It's amazing it's looking this good. I wouldn't be surprise if it was the least interesting game/worst paced/shorter on the series because of all the hard condition, unfinished hardware, super tight dead line etc...

I have great great hope for the next one, even if I want to believe Shadow Fall will be as good as the last entries

 

[Always-honest]

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/393510/killzone-shadow-fall-preview-ps4/

Awesome, thanx.

And thank you devs and Sony for making it all about GAMING!