We will see, I guess. Not expecting much though.
VGLeaks rumor: Durango CPU Overview
- Thread starter DieH@rd
- Start date
It's not uncommon for early dev kits to have significantly more powerful GPUs in order to brute force simulate customizations of the final GPU.
HardtopMental1
Banned
But you are not going to stop them in their tracks, especially when you seem utterly incapable of discussing this in a clear, coherent and intelligent manner
You clearly are amuse to hearing yourself talk because i clearly said everyone should wait for official conformation. I mean theres a new xbox is doom and gloom thread every day every hour same rumors its like 2005 all over again we know how that turned out.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
He said 'compared to"
anyway, clockspeed and RAM are both variable to some degree. I expect MS to match anything Sony pulls off hardware-wise in those areas.
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
And you don't get to make demands of what everybody else does, whether you like it or not.
That way heartbreak lies.
That is not an architectural change. They just seized the opportunity to add more RAM as modules became available...
That is in no shape, way or form comparable to using a different GPU, especially when you are dealing with an APU.
nelsonroyale
Member
Then they will have to go with the same set up and lose the esram.
Why do people keep saying this?
EDGE had mentioned that they were hoping to hit 8GB well before the PS4 unveil. The path to that is readily available if you look at what Hynix and Samsung (GDDR5 manufacturers) have started manufacturing (jumps from 2Gb chips to 4Gb chips now hitting retail production stages for both of them).
The bump for PS4 wasn't some crazy ass surprise. It was part of Sony's road map all along, to constantly scale their memory with the latest GDDR5 fabs. Hindsight helps to clear away the cobwebs here but this is why the rumors went from 2GB to 4GB to 8GB in perfect synchronization with GDDR5 fabs scaling up from 1Gb chips to 2Gb chips to 4Gb chips.
It also DID leak. This is just furthering the point that if MS had something new it should have leaked by now. 8GB of ram leaked when Sony was intentionally not putting it in dev kits so as not to over promise and under deliver if memory fabs didn't keep pace. It still got out before the show. Yet somehow MS' basic hardware design is going to be different from every rumor we've had so far? That takes one hell of a leap of faith.
phosphor112
Banned
I don't see anything exotic in here by any means. L1 and L2 sizes are correct... basic same 8 cores at 1.6ghz... nothing new.
HardtopMental1
Banned
you think they haven't changed alter anything in a yr wow ok guess we'll have to see care to wager on that?
dead monkey uk
Member
Totally agree, if MS showed a new Alan Wake and Battlefield 4 (1080P 60fps, 64 player etc) I would not care less about which console is more powerful.
I attend to buy both consoles, only decision is which one to buy first. But this will probably be determined by which console release in the UK first and not the final spec.
How long do you think it takes to produce a console, I'm curious.
Because right now you are saying it takes less then 7 months to completely redesign the GPU and fix all the bugs and get it rolling :/.
Arrogant Menace
Banned
Sounds like it wouldn't be running on hardware at e3 if they were going in the opposite direction
Team Filler
Member
nevermind
HardtopMental1
Banned
you're missing my point im saying the same thing you're saying im just stating that nothing is a fact like most people keep assuming rumors= they don't.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Not unless they want horrible performing games for their launch.
Maybe that's where the stupid rumour came from that NXTBX games would get a significant downgrade on retail boxes.
I'm pretty sure if they did that MS would be liable for refunds under the Trade Descriptions Act, at least in the UK.
What microsoft says != fact according to you, also more full stops please.
How the hell do you think people design hardware? This isn't just stacking more and more shit on top of a pile day after day.
MS had a clear roadmap for where they wanted the X720 to be at come launch. They've been working towards that this entire time. What you're suggesting is that they scrapped the entire plan they'd sunk at least eight figures, if not nine, worth of R&D into over the last half decade and started from scratch about 12 months ago.
Do you understand how loopy that sounds? This is on par with people asking why MS doesn't just replace the DDR3 system memory with GDDR5, ignoring the millions they've spent in developing an APU with embedded SRAM to work around the fact that they chose DDR3.
LabouredSubterfuge
Member
Goodnight sweet prince.
dragonelite
Member
Doesn't make sense to use a 7970 unless it has an efficiency of 30%(-+3.8 Tflops).
To simulate a 1.2 Tflops card having an effiency of 100% very unlikely.
Even a 7950 doesn't make sense it would need a efficiency of like 41%. While the 360 gpu is rated at effiency of 60%, we are like 5 generations further in gpu tech.
Maybe with Esram and the move engines you can get a 7870 behave like a 7950.
If these rumors are true im gonna wait before ordering durango this is some shady ass bait and switch. I may not know enough about hardware but the numbers are telling that if the 7970 is in the alpha kit and developers can use it to make games then the final gpu which is rumored to be a 7770 then either the alpha kit having 7970 rumor is bullshit or the 7770 final gpu is bullshit. Or wizard jizz.
Well it shouldn't come to that, as the rumor is on the verge of loony territory.
Because it was a shock? Even their own developers were suprised.
The wording of the rumor was weird though:
Really weird, why would they want to match it; it was clearly faster already.
Haha, first time witnessing a ban in real time for me I think...it's beautiful.
Id say it might have a GPU in it that has a standard memory interface that is close to the 170GB/s combined eSRAM + DDR3 on the final silicon, and they just used a bunch of BIOS stuff to shut off parts of the GPU to emulate Durangos performance better.
The common consensuses on here was that Sony's solution was the better.
Kazuma Kiryu
Member
hm, i remember bgassassin hinting about the cpu having double the performance right? he's pretty legit if i'm not mistaken, perhaps there's something we're missing?
dragonelite
Member
Sounds also right but then why put in a gpu that is priced $200 more or so(number pulled from ass but i reckon its close to it) and block a part of the gpu.
It makes more sense they used the Esram and move engines to simulate 3D stacked ddr3.
But that is probably a fools dream right.
That reminds me. How does Sony go about replicating it's 8 GB of GDDR5 memory? There isn't a card out there that has it.
Because Sony actively tried to keep it under wraps so as not to overpromise, but again that still leaked well in advance of their show.
I'm assuming Sony's desire to match was based on wanting to have 100% parity or better with the next Xbox in all aspects. The superior bandwidth would generally be a better advantage to have, but then companies like Bethesda are pretty dependent on high quantities of memory. Bethesda also has historically been a closer ally of MS and their games do sell millions of units. I'm sure the last thing Sony wanted was another Skyrim fiasco where Bethesda codes to the next Xbox and becomes reliant on the 8GB of slower system memory, then delivers a broken "solution" to stream through the 4GB of system memory they would have had available.
The only problem in how EDGE worded their article was the assumptions people brought to the table about GDDR5. Primarily people assumed that Sony was just looking to "match" in terms of total productivity, but EDGE didn't write to that effect. They outlined the technical superiority of GDDR5 and then in a separate sentence said Sony wanted to match MS' 8GB. Two discrete thoughts. People's unwillingness to believe that a system could have 8 GB of GDDR5 led to a misconception, not EDGE's reporting.
TheRagnCajun
Member
I'm starting to think there's no 'special sauce'
In the dev kits without it, they don't. The dev kits without it have 8GB of DDR3 and 2GB or something of GDDR5.
I still don't believe these are the final specs, sure it takes months to change and test a change to a console, but at the time these documents were made the console was 1 year and 10 months away. That is more than enough time to change the console's specs. It just not make any sense, why would MS hire all these hardware people from IBM and have a large secret group from amd work on the console to just basically throw in off the shelf hardware?
It currently looks like he (and many others) took the 128 bit pipeline employed by the new Jaguar line to be a Durango specific bump. It isn't and is present in the PS4's Jaguar chip as well, but when the previous generation in the same family was 64 bit you can see why the mistake was made.
Because IBM has some of the best people in the industry, and Microsoft is working on more then one project at a time?.
Also any console is going to require a large group.
It takes a nice long time to get every sorted (even longer if you count there yield issues) 1 year and 8/7 months to go from no silicon to actually shipping the consumer product isn't that bad
So far they haven't. All sources point to them shipping dev kits that had a target of 4GB GDDR5.
We likely won't see PS4 titles actually really exploiting the 8GB of ram until Sony ships final dev kits (probably fairly soon). Them locking in to 8GB has happened too close to final production to waste time and money on an intermediate step when they need to start rolling out something very close to final kits in the near future.
I guess people should calm down about the RAM upgrade for launch games then? It will, most likely, be the second generation of games that will take advantage of it.
you mean the same guy that said 3rd party was unhappy with PS4, while this all time sony has been asking them what they want? Yeah that aegis, lol
Depends how you look at it, the dev kits would have 8GB of GDDR5 because dev kits generally have 2x final. So it might take advantage of some of it.
Those documents were the hardware roadmap. Sure there have likely been a few changes here and there, but it was no less accurate a year and 10 months ago than it was a year ago or six months ago. It was the end goal they were shooting for and that generally doesn't change too massively.
Also, they aren't using mostly off the shelf parts. That's what Sony is doing. MS has a heavily customized APU to allow for the ESRAM, they are supposed to have a heavily customized data manager to make the ESRAM and main system memory play optimally well together. The sound chip is supposed to be something very impressive and highly unique. Kinect 2.0 allegedly has it's own silicon, and likely an additional setup on the system mobo to further reduce latency with it. There are A LOT of customized bits in the next Xbox. This isn't just a Jaguar and 7770 stuck on a white box mobo and pushed out the door.
That rumor cropped up very early though. I think it was to do with Sony planning to go with only 2 GB of GDDR5 memory. Probably not true, but they do go together.
The exclusives will likely utilize it to some degree. I doubt any multiplats are really going to benefit it until they stop making current gen versions.
I have not heard about any changes in the specifications. It would be nice if they do increase them somehow, but the entire console was built around the architecture that you have all seen by now, so I cannot see them implementing major changes such as a new CPU or GPU without serious consequences. I'm also sure that if there were major changes to the specifications developers are aiming at someone would have leaked that by now seeing as so much of the PS4 was coming out.
Who knows maybe it will be my turn to eat crow this time.
Who knows maybe it will be my turn to eat crow this time.
ScepticMatt
Member
Games downsampled from 8k confirmed.
To some degree, but even first party games will have been developed around the old specs. It won't be till the second round of games that are developed with 8 gigs in mind that we will see the true benefits.
Maximilian Kolbe
Member
Normal HD7970 come with 264GB/s
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/toxic-hd-7970-eyefinity-6gb,3264.html
I highly doubt MS put HD7970 in alpha kit if the rumored final spec is true.
What other project would MS be working on where they would need IBM and AMD hardware people? 2012 is too early to start putting so many resources on the xbox 4 when xbox 3 has not come out yet. 1 year 10 months is too long to not change anything.