VGLeaks: First look as Durango XDK (always connected, kinect required, must install)

SatansReverence said:
How so?

Crysis 3 is around 15gb isn't it?

Just because blurays can have 50 or so GB of data doesn't mean games are going to be anywhere near as big.
Click to expand...

Games are going to take advantage of the increased format size. I obviously don't expect all to be 50GB but I do expect quite a few to have above the 20GB range going to 40GB.

However let's go with Crysis 3 being the minimum so assuming a 500 GB, then you get 33.333 games out of a HDD before you have to buy a new one. That isn't including DLC and patches.

Now let's assume the average size of a next gen game is 25GB then you get 20 games before DLC and patches.

strata said:
There's absolutely no reason why you'd have to have every single game installed to the HDD at once.
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If they're making the disk useless after the initial installation then yes there is a problem. I can't repeatedly install it.
 
Marty Chinn said:
I think it's a bit annoying to have to manage installing and deleting stuff all the time. Installs are a pain unless they're done without your knowledge. PS3 installs were bad enough as is, and installing on the 360 isn't fast either.
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I'm betting there's not even any manual management going on. Storage space for games on the HDD could be treated as dynamic with games removed automatically if they haven't been played recently.

Jarmel said:
If they're making the disk useless after the initial installation then yes there is a problem. I can't repeatedly install it.
Click to expand...

The disc won't be useless if they go ahead with something like that. It might be similar to Steam backup discs where they contain all the data but the game can only be installed on accounts that own it.
 
Marty Chinn said:
I think it's a bit annoying to have to manage installing and deleting stuff all the time. Installs are a pain unless they're done without your knowledge. PS3 installs were bad enough as is, and installing on the 360 isn't fast either.
Click to expand...
Though I agree managing your files is a pain, the rumor is also saying you can start playing before the install is even done.
 
Marty Chinn said:
Game sizes are going to remain static especially with a 16 fold increase in RAM?



I think it's a bit annoying to have to manage installing and deleting stuff all the time. Installs are a pain unless they're done without your knowledge. PS3 installs were bad enough as is, and installing on the 360 isn't fast either.
Click to expand...

We don't know how the system will manage the games installation.

Separate (hidden) installation partition?
 
XtremeXpider said:
I don't know why Durango is using Windows 7 instead Windows 8:

Windows 7 window decoration:

visual_studio_2012_express_windows_desktop.jpg


Windows 8 window decoration:

IC621219.png


"Old" dev kit?
Click to expand...

Doesn't say they have a devkit. They just installed the xdk on their computer I imagine
 
SatansReverence said:
How so?

Crysis 3 is around 15gb isn't it?

Just because blurays can have 50 or so GB of data doesn't mean games are going to be anywhere near as big.
Click to expand...

They'll still be pretty damn big and I wouldn't be surprised at all if we see a 40-50 gb game next gen (that doesn't use redundant data like many PS3 games do in order to speed up load times). Higher res textures, mesh, better audio, etc all contributes to bigger games. Max Payne 3 was what, 20 gbs on PC? Games were more like 4 gbs at the start of this generation and now 15+ gb games are common.
 
Tripp Daily said:
Oh wow, you are so bright!

If you do not like ads: turn off your computer, turn off your Tv, turn off your radio, go to your room and discard all clothes posters and items that are branded, lock your doors shut the blinds and do not speak to anyone about their opinion on any manufactured item.

Once again, ads are a good thing. They inform you on different products and they help keep developers (small and large) that make the games we love in business.

For people to complain about ads when you are surrounded by ads everyday that you have no issue with is pure ignorance.
Click to expand...

My daily exposure to ads is minimal. I have unavoidable billboard ads at the train station on my commute, but in my working day, I see little to no advertising. I use adblock, so that covers me for web sites. I might flick through a news paper, but ads there are easily skippable by a quick turn of the page.

I watch little OTA TV, and when I do, its often on ad free channels. The vast majority of my watching is downloaded. If I play games, Xbox 360 aside, I have zero ads.

So when something like the 360 Metro dsah comes along, and is a fucking Adageddon, it is horrific. Bare in mind, the sheer volume of ads you get in America is far, far higher than any other country I've lived in. So it might seem like nothing much to you, but to my eyes, is appalling.
 
Jarmel said:
Unless the size of the HDDs are terabytes, a person is going to run into storage issues.
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Well it won't be big problem if it can play the game after starting install,not after install finished
That means you can play the game very quick even you uninstalled the game
But can it do that actually?(i heard Halo 2 PC can though)
 
Marty Chinn said:
Game sizes are going to remain static especially with a 16 fold increase in RAM?
Click to expand...

I was talking about Crysis 3 PC. Not the console install sizes (which are probably smaller because of the significantly smaller textures).

With the trend towards shorter flashier single player games and CoD clone rip off multiplayers, game install sizes won't double, triple or quadruple while the standard installed HDDs will probably be about 1tb.

Marty Chinn said:
I think it's a bit annoying to have to manage installing and deleting stuff all the time. Installs are a pain unless they're done without your knowledge. PS3 installs were bad enough as is, and installing on the 360 isn't fast either.
Click to expand...

Durango installs are automatic and done in the background while you play the game. It would be a case of installing the game engine and the first level or something and than as you play the install finishes without you even knowing.
 
KidBeta said:
The better question is why can't you have both?. Why restrict to HDD only, surely streaming off the disk + hdd would be better.
Click to expand...
Best case scenario: Durango ships with a large SSD, and then using the optical drive becomes unnecessary as both seek times and transfer rates would be significantly worse.

Realistic scenario: The data in disk might be formatted in a way that prioritizes streaming, and wouldn't be adequate to anything other than continuous reading, and can transfer as fast as possible without worrying about seek times.
 
Alfred Jodl said:
Well it won't be big problem if it can play the game after starting install,not after install finished
That means you can play the game very quick even you uninstalled the game
But can it do that actually?(i heard Halo 2 PC can though)
Click to expand...

Microsoft definitely has the technology to do it. The latest version of Office for example can be used before it's finished installing because it streams application data over the internet. It doesn't work all too well due to internet speed issues but it could be awesome using a disc. It's called App-V and it's very neat.
 
Alfred Jodl said:
It's "during gameplay, games will not use content from optical disc",not useless after install,and no way they won't let you install more than one time
Click to expand...

It sounds exactly the same as the current xbox 360 install system. Nothing is read from the disc during gameplay (it doesn't even spin while playing) but the disc is still required to play.
 
GuitarAtomik said:
Though I agree managing your files is a pain, the rumor is also saying you can start playing before the install is even done.
Click to expand...

The document to me seems to not support that rumor. If game developers assume installs and no streaming from the disc, even for loading, then it seems questionable to me that there will be a loading mechanism that is possible from the disc. There will have to be some knowledge of what order to copy data over if that's the case rather than doing a full install upfront.

XtremeXpider said:
We don't know how the system will manage the games installation.

Separate (hidden) installation partition?
Click to expand...

I agree, we don't know how it will be, but I can easily understand why people are concerned or even unhappy about the notion of mandatory installs.
 
SPE said:
The Windows OS version wouldn't matter. It just needs Visual Studio 2012, which runs in XP/7/8.
Click to expand...

VS2012 can't be installed on XP or Vista, it need Win7 or Win 8.

I agree, we don't know how it will be, but I can easily understand why people are concerned or even unhappy about the notion of mandatory installs.
Click to expand...

I think you will not be prompted for and installation, you will insert the disc, console will begin the installation at background (for user, things will see as current loading) and game will begin to play.
 
LukasTaves said:
Best case scenario: Durango ships with a large SSD, and then using the optical drive becomes unnecessary as both seek times and transfer rates would be significantly worse.

Realistic scenario: The data in disk might be formatted in a way that prioritizes streaming, and wouldn't be adequate to anything other than continuous reading, and can transfer as fast as possible without worrying about seek times.
Click to expand...

A large SSD is price at more then the consoles cost. This is not really realistic. I think its a bad move to not allow HDD + disc, whilst disc might not give you much more its still more bandwidth and it doesn't really give any disadvantages that I can see.
 
Anyone that looked through the whole document, please tell me they're not doing nonstandard gamma adjustments again.
 
SatansReverence said:
How so?

Crysis 3 is around 15gb isn't it?

Just because blurays can have 50 or so GB of data doesn't mean games are going to be anywhere near as big.
Click to expand...
That is true, but some games are that nearly that big
So they will exist, especially now both consoles have access to 50GB discs
 
Imm0rt4l said:
Well the system doesn't stream data from the disc only from the mandatory install so it stands to reason.
Click to expand...

No, that's actually a huge jump. It's the same way PC works. There isn't any suggestion that you can never use the disk again. There are rumors about whether someone else can use the disk (and if you can install and run the game without a disk then reason would suggest that no, nobody else can use it). Technically that is probably more tied to a code or something anyway and not the disk. I really don't see any reason why the disc would suddenly become useless or how they would even do that
 
SatansReverence said:
It sounds exactly the same as the current xbox 360 install system. Nothing is read from the disc during gameplay (it doesn't even spin while playing) but the disc is still required to play.
Click to expand...

it had better not require disc to start. I want to install the disc and throw it up in the closet (or better yet Day 1 DD for all titles)
 
Jarmel said:
Games are going to take advantage of the increased format size. I obviously don't expect all to be 50GB but I do expect quite a few to have above the 20GB range going to 40GB.

However let's go with Crysis 3 being the minimum so assuming a 500 GB, then you get 33.333 games out of a HDD before you have to buy a new one. That isn't including DLC and patches.

Now let's assume the average size of a next gen game is 25GB then you get 20 games before DLC and patches.



If they're making the disk useless after the initial installation then yes there is a problem. I can't repeatedly install it.
Click to expand...

Buy a new one????????

Are your hard drives unable to erase?

Who plays 33 games in a couple of months? Have the games you are currently playing installed and games you havent played in years can be erased until you have the urge to play them again. With you being able to play the game immediately while its installing there is no inconvenience other than having to get up and insert a disc, which you already have to do now.
 
Marty Chinn said:
The document to me seems to not support that rumor. If game developers assume installs and no streaming from the disc, even for loading, then it seems questionable to me that there will be a loading mechanism that is possible from the disc. There will have to be some knowledge of what order to copy data over if that's the case rather than doing a full install upfront.



I agree, we don't know how it will be, but I can easily understand why people are concerned or even unhappy about the notion of mandatory installs.
Click to expand...
It's the document saying that it can start the game before install finished
 
Sporran said:
Im cool with that notion, but im reading that as potential DRM. What happens when the tinternet drops off and mid game, it happens shit got real.
Click to expand...

You really shouldn't read it like that as it doesn't say anywhere that an internet connection will be required.

devonraynor said:
games mandatory of being installed, sounds like a form of DRM?
method to block anti used games?
Click to expand...

Some PS3 xbox 360 games have mandatory installs without DRM.
 
Klocker said:
it had better not require disc to start. I want to install the disc and throw it up in the closet (or better yet Day 1 DD for all titles)
Click to expand...

Maybe, if physical media is required, then second hand will be ok, if the disc is not required for start the game or gameplay, I think there will be some kind of DRM... I prefer the first scenario...

games mandatory of being installed, sounds like a form of DRM?
method to block anti used games?
Click to expand...

Not necessary, maybe it is mandatory for performance, as in PS3, or for muyltitasking (freeze/unfreeze game).
 
SatansReverence said:
I was talking about Crysis 3 PC. Not the console install sizes (which are probably smaller because of the significantly smaller textures).
Click to expand...

I think it's naive to assume that a 15gb Crysis 3 on PC is proof that sizes won't be that big. Fixed console platforms are more likely to push the larger end because of the fixed expectation compared to how PC games target multiple specs. We need not look further than just some PS3 games to see how big they can get already. Max Payne 3 on a PC is a lot bigger than Crysis 3 if you want to talk about PC games though.

Durango installs are automatic and done in the background while you play the game. It would be a case of installing the game engine and the first level or something and than as you play the install finishes without you even knowing.
Click to expand...

Edit: My bad, I only read the part about not allowing loading from the disc during the game. I didn't see the part where they were designing it to install as you go.
 
As a Sony fanboy who plays my 360 99% of the time over my ps3, I have to say MS is making it very easy to go back to Sony, and at this stage just Sony. I've had phone lines down for for a few days, lol @ not being able to play my fucking single player games because of shit like that.
 
strata said:
I'm betting there's not even any manual management going on. Storage space for games on the HDD could be treated as dynamic with games removed automatically if they haven't been played recently.

The disc won't be useless if they go ahead with something like that. It might be similar to Steam backup discs where they contain all the data but the game can only be installed on accounts that own it.
Click to expand...

sangreal said:
Where does it say that?
Click to expand...

It depends if it's part of Microsoft's anti-used game strategy, which is the major reason I see for this being mandatory across the board. They could sync the initial install to your account and you can redownload any game you buy in the physical store. This could get around the storage issue I suppose.
 
Sounds pretty ambitious for Microsoft. They are doing something completely different from the norm. Just the meltdowns in this thread is indicative of that. Will be interesting to see if they are successful.
 
Westlo said:
As a Sony fanboy who plays my 360 99% of the time over my ps3, I have to say MS is making it very easy to go back to Sony, and at this stage just Sony. I've had phone lines down for for a few days, lol @ not being able to play my fucking single player games because of shit like that.
Click to expand...

If you didn't already have your mind made up, I'd encourage you to wait until they unveil the system.
 
Westlo said:
As a Sony fanboy who plays my 360 99% of the time over my ps3, I have to say MS is making it very easy to go back to Sony, and at this stage just Sony. I've had phone lines down for for a few days, lol @ not being able to play my fucking single player games because of shit like that.
Click to expand...
huh?how can you be a sony fan yet play 360 most of the time?
 
Marty Chinn said:
Where is there proof of this is how it will work? How can you assume this when you're telling developers to not worry about loading off the disc? You have to be able to tell what order to install files in if you're going to install as you play.
Click to expand...

You don't need to say anything to devs, games can have a structure in the disc, and the system will do the rest.
 
Klocker said:
so is your tv, microwave, stereo, phone charger :(


alert the media!


it's in LOW power mode
Click to expand...

I really don't see the big deal with always on.

Now if it needs an Internet connection required at all times to function. That's a completely different story.
 
Marty Chinn said:
I think it's naive to assume that a 15gb Crysis 3 on PC is proof that sizes won't be that big. Fixed console platforms are more likely to push the larger end because of the fixed expectation compared to how PC games target multiple specs. We need not look further than just some PS3 games to see how big they can get already. Max Payne 3 on a PC is a lot bigger than Crysis 3 if you want to talk about PC games though.
Click to expand...
I used Crysis 3 because it is arguably the best looking game available today.[/QUOTE]


And even with 50gb of space to play with, how many PS3 devs actually used that much unique data (i.e not redundant or back up).



*NVM*
 
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