Projectjustice
Banned
Looks like i made the right decision by upgrading my PC and going with PC gaming this time around. No thanks MS.
VGLeaks: First look as Durango XDK (always connected, kinect required, must install)
- Thread starter DieH@rd
- Start date
Or Edge formed their article from the exact same documents , and wrote it in a way to gain the most clicks ?
Or are certain sites bastions of truth when they confirm a bias ?
GuitarAtomik
Member
Also, are people forgetting that a LOT of PS3 games had mandatory installs? Were your discs useless after that as well? Did they require you to register it to one console or need online verification? No.
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Uno Venova
Banned
Seriously doubt it, they have multiple sources with experiences with the consoles. Don't know why people are trying to discredit all other rumors suddenly.
Someone said it on page 1 of the thread but it seemed to be glanced over...
For the same reason that The Hobbit can't be released in "High Frame Rate" version on Blu-Ray, Durango games can't be streamed from the disk at a reasonable speed. Reading from Blu-Ray is simply not fast enough...
If you want to see The Hobbit in HFR at home, you'll need to download it (if they ever make it available). Same reason why if you don't want loads to be 5-10 minutes in length all the time, you'll need to install a Durango game to the HDD.
Also, I expect the exact same from PS4. Sony just didn't say it... but very likely they will have the exact same requirement. I also suspect PS4 to be "always on, always connected" as well, btw.
For the same reason that The Hobbit can't be released in "High Frame Rate" version on Blu-Ray, Durango games can't be streamed from the disk at a reasonable speed. Reading from Blu-Ray is simply not fast enough...
If you want to see The Hobbit in HFR at home, you'll need to download it (if they ever make it available). Same reason why if you don't want loads to be 5-10 minutes in length all the time, you'll need to install a Durango game to the HDD.
Also, I expect the exact same from PS4. Sony just didn't say it... but very likely they will have the exact same requirement. I also suspect PS4 to be "always on, always connected" as well, btw.
When you say download, I assume you mean from DVD. And no, I have yet to play D3.
That kind of installer is the one that makes sense. It's both modular and occurs in background.
They have already stated otherwise. As for installations, both will have it.
You know, installing games to the HDD seems to me to be a good thing. The kinds of games that can get made aren't hamstrung by the read speed of the Blu-Ray discs.
Imagine filling the RAM from disc? Not without compromises. Let's put it this way.
6x read speed = 216Mbps, or 27MBps.
RAM = ~8000MB.
Time to fill to full from empty = ~5 MINUTES.
It's not feasible to have games reading purely off the BRD unless they are either using a fraction of the RAM or using a streaming technology to slowly fill it while you start a level.
With the HDD:
7200 RPM typical = 1030Mbps, or 128.75MBps.
RAM = ~8000MB
Time to fill from empty = ~ 1 minute.
This is way way faster and makes things possible that would not be with Bluray reading. If they cache part of the blu ray on the HDD it would mitigate the difference, but it's much easier to use the HDD for most of it. Probably use loading from both eventually to cut loading times.
Imagine filling the RAM from disc? Not without compromises. Let's put it this way.
6x read speed = 216Mbps, or 27MBps.
RAM = ~8000MB.
Time to fill to full from empty = ~5 MINUTES.
It's not feasible to have games reading purely off the BRD unless they are either using a fraction of the RAM or using a streaming technology to slowly fill it while you start a level.
With the HDD:
7200 RPM typical = 1030Mbps, or 128.75MBps.
RAM = ~8000MB
Time to fill from empty = ~ 1 minute.
This is way way faster and makes things possible that would not be with Bluray reading. If they cache part of the blu ray on the HDD it would mitigate the difference, but it's much easier to use the HDD for most of it. Probably use loading from both eventually to cut loading times.
Crimson_Gold
Member
But Sony already said that you do not have to have an online connection to play games. I know some people hate the idea of always online, I'm not particularly fond of it myself, but to say that Sony is doing it as well when it has been stated that this is not the case, is just wrong.
I still plan on getting both consoles. PS4 will just be the one that I purchase 1st.
Captain Tuttle
Member
That document is strange, not written like an internal communication. Something's off about it.
Could be true though, the online rumor and the Kinect rumor have been tenacious.
Edit: And I suspect that online passes will be the norm for Durango and the PS4, used games will work but not without purchasing an "unlock key".
Could be true though, the online rumor and the Kinect rumor have been tenacious.
Edit: And I suspect that online passes will be the norm for Durango and the PS4, used games will work but not without purchasing an "unlock key".
There's no "probably" about it, the doc outright states it plainly. But it's like people stop reading after the "always online, always connected" part, and go off on their tangent. The funniest posts are the people who keep coming in stating shit like "lol i hope this is true, so i have a reason not to buy the new Xbox".
I am sure these people were likely never intending to buy one regardless, so it begs the question why they would care or want something they see as a negative to be true about a console they never intended to buy?
So Sony has confirmed that the PS4 won't be connected to the internet and updating/background downloading while the console isn't in use?
Pagusas
Elden Member
You really think its going to have a 7200rpm, full 120MBps+ hard drive in there? It wont, it will have a 5200rpm laptop hard drive that can read at about 60-70MBs.
SneakyStephan
Banned
From the OP it looks like there has been a lot of warping of information to be more sensationalist for hits/clicks.
Nothing in the OP suggests it has always online drm or that you can't play games without a connection.
The article describes how the console is (like some shitty DVR, a feature I don't care about but that isn't the point) always at least in suspend mode (never completely off) and that it will retain an online connection while suspended so that if a patch /update is ready for a game it will download it even while the consumer has 'turned it off' (suspend)
None of this has anything to do with how you play games.
I hate to have to come to the defence of MS (fuck MS) but I hate sensationalist junnalists more.
All the outrage on gaf over always online xbox due to journalists 'quoting their sources' has been a waste of time.
We should redirect our pitchforks at every douchebag writer who willingly and knowingly misconstrued always connected (in the way described above) into always online (and all the baggage that term comes with) in order to get clicks.
Also you can tell the console only users in this thread apart from a mile away since they would be the only people who would ever complain about something like mandatory installs.
Mandatory installs are GOOD (faster game boot, far less loading times) and have been the standard on PC for 20 years.
Welcome to the 90s console only users, you'll learn to love it once you understand why it's good for you.
Nothing in the OP suggests it has always online drm or that you can't play games without a connection.
The article describes how the console is (like some shitty DVR, a feature I don't care about but that isn't the point) always at least in suspend mode (never completely off) and that it will retain an online connection while suspended so that if a patch /update is ready for a game it will download it even while the consumer has 'turned it off' (suspend)
None of this has anything to do with how you play games.
I hate to have to come to the defence of MS (fuck MS) but I hate sensationalist junnalists more.
All the outrage on gaf over always online xbox due to journalists 'quoting their sources' has been a waste of time.
We should redirect our pitchforks at every douchebag writer who willingly and knowingly misconstrued always connected (in the way described above) into always online (and all the baggage that term comes with) in order to get clicks.
Also you can tell the console only users in this thread apart from a mile away since they would be the only people who would ever complain about something like mandatory installs.
Mandatory installs are GOOD (faster game boot, far less loading times) and have been the standard on PC for 20 years.
Welcome to the 90s console only users, you'll learn to love it once you understand why it's good for you.
flyinpiranha
Member
Very skeptical. I'll admit to being a fan of what the Xbox has offered because "services" and "connectivity" were always second to games. It hasn't been the case the past two years so I am extremely skeptical of what may come from MS.
I am the same with Sony, they took out BC, they took out Linux, they aren't doing any better but at least I still feel that Sony is focused on games (even if that isn't their main reasoning behind creating a games machine).
E3 is going to be huge. There are so many outlying factors that weren't part of previous generations. Before it was all about games, now it seems to be second to what services can be offered. As much as I may enjoy an all-in-one miracle box, if I'm not interested in 50% of those miracles, it depreciates in value dramatically.
I don't think MS will blow what lead they have. They have to see how Sony and Nintendo have fallen and risen and take that into account.
The main thing that worries me is focus groups.
That's every console. Outside of the exclusive games, all consoles are PCs with less benefits.
I am the same with Sony, they took out BC, they took out Linux, they aren't doing any better but at least I still feel that Sony is focused on games (even if that isn't their main reasoning behind creating a games machine).
E3 is going to be huge. There are so many outlying factors that weren't part of previous generations. Before it was all about games, now it seems to be second to what services can be offered. As much as I may enjoy an all-in-one miracle box, if I'm not interested in 50% of those miracles, it depreciates in value dramatically.
I don't think MS will blow what lead they have. They have to see how Sony and Nintendo have fallen and risen and take that into account.
The main thing that worries me is focus groups.
That's every console. Outside of the exclusive games, all consoles are PCs with less benefits.
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
mandatory install is the only good thing i see on this list
Maximilian Kolbe
Member
Since it's about software if they're not right,it may not because they're biased,it may because they're misunderstand(yeah i know i may misunderstand either)
The only way that I will buy a Durango is if the games are exclusive and incredibly awesome, like many of us bought a PS3 just for Versus (how well that turned out, lol...)
PS4 it is I guess... or maybe I should just stick with PC + old consoles, I still have tons of things to play on my Xbox 360 / PS2.
PS4 it is I guess... or maybe I should just stick with PC + old consoles, I still have tons of things to play on my Xbox 360 / PS2.
Oppo
Member
Sony has confirmed the part we are actually concerned about, which is that the PS4 will be able to go offline.
That's what all of this is about.
And the crazy parsing of "Always Online, Always Connected" as well as the "will always maintain a network connection" phrase is people mixing up the other features we know are almost certainly in there, which is entirely the point of branding it that way.
You make the bitter pill easy to swallow by wrapping it in sugar, right?
So basically both MS and Sony will have in their next boxes:
- background/low-power downloading
- background/progressive installing
- suspend/resume on games
- day 1 digital
Sony has clarified one thing that MS hasn't yet, which is that it can go offline. If MS says the same thing, we've got no problem. If they get all cagey and basically start speaking like Maxis' spokespeople, we designed it this way, massively connected experience, you want this etc. then we have a potentially Maxis-style problem. It will be billed as A Feature, Not A Bug, because of course you need to be online to have your amazing "connected experience" (more marketing phrasing).
MS wants their audience online for the same reason the publishers want control of that portal experience, so they can flog their wares, and so you can easily buy them. It's just very in-character for them to push for something like this. You know, like paying for online multiplayer
Good point. Still though they're moving closer and closer to full-fledged PCs. Like, if I really need to always be connected, install every game, use things I don't want to like Kinect... Why wouldn't I just plug my PC into my TV at some point? I feel like the line is blurring more with each gen.
Unspeakable Evil
Member
I could of sworn that Edge(or maybe someone here) said that MS has considered that online is required, but that it was not set in stone.
Untrue.
Consoles have their advantages.
The chief advantage is guaranteed content access from one (relatively) cheap box for 5+ years.
PCs are a bit more of a gamble in that regard. If I build a $500 PC in 2013, will it still be able to play blockbuster hits in 2018/2019/2020..? The consoles will. My PC? Dunno.
That's the big advantage...long term, subsidised, relatively guaranteed performance/content support.
Which is why I hope MS doesn't undermine that to any significant degree in their box with this talk of restrictions wrt low level development. THAT could erode some of the key console advantage if there's much significance to that.
Maximilian Kolbe
Member
The "Always on" not even means Always online...
"Durango will implement different power states so that it can always be powered on, but will draw minimal electricity when not in use."
Sony has confirmed the part we are actually concerned about, which is that the PS4 will be able to go offline.
That's what all of this is about.
And the crazy parsing of "Always Online, Always Connected" as well as the "will always maintain a network connection" phrase is people mixing up the other features we know are almost certainly in there, which is entirely the point of branding it that way.
You make the bitter pill easy to swallow by wrapping it in sugar, right?
So basically both MS and Sony will have in their next boxes:
- background/low-power downloading
- background/progressive installing
- suspend/resume on games
- day 1 digital
Sony has clarified one thing that MS hasn't yet, which is that it can go offline. If MS says the same thing, we've got no problem. If they get all cagey and basically start speaking like Maxis' spokespeople, we designed it this way, massively connected experience, you want this etc. then we have a potentially Maxis-style problem. It will be billed as A Feature, Not A Bug, because of course you need to be online to have your amazing "connected experience" (more marketing phrasing).
MS wants their audience online for the same reason the publishers want control of that portal experience, so they can flog their wares, and so you can easily buy them. It's just very in-character for them to push for something like this. You know, like paying for online multiplayer
Because paying for Live is exactly the same as a game not being able to function in any way without an online connection. Also Sony confirmed it because they were directly asked, MS hasn't even acknowledged there is a new xbox, so yeah we will see when they unveil it. What's in the OP however is what we have to go on now and it makes no indication whatsoever of "mandatory online", which is interesting since it clearly spells out "mandatory" installs and "mandatory" Kinect.
Don't you mean 5,400RPM? Also, I agree that we won't see 7200RPM discs come packed in.
I was talking about being online to play SP games. Pertaining to patch/update purposes, given that the PS4 is stated to be always in low power mode and Mr. Cerny's quote about background downloads, it is not only possible but will be the case (by default with option to perhaps toggle it on and off, I assume).
Oppo
Member
Please read my post again, I addressed this specifically.
Of course, MS hasn't had their say yet. And no I don't think it's the same, I said it was "in character". Just an opinion.abadguy said:
And again I just can't go with you guys who somehow, some way, read "must maintain a network connection" as "no it doesn't need a network connection". Reading it that way makes no sense to me, and in context with rumours and events leading up to the unveil, it really doesn't.
My hope at this point is that they've done an about-face on this behind the scenes and will relax or kill the idea because it's just not a direction I'd like to see them go in, at least for this next console.
dragonelite
Member
Yeah that is not that hard in the gaming press world these days.
But if this is the source they had to work with.
Their durango article was written for hits.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Except they were absolutely correct with everything else in that article. People in this thread act like it was a hit piece on Microsoft for some reason.
Where does it say this
Interfectum
Member
Eh... you could probably upgrade your PC's video card to keep up with the pace with the money you save from not spending $60 on games. Also, when getting into PC gaming you have a back catalog of classics that go back decades plus continued & guaranteed content support.
The only real advantages I see for consoles: 1st party exclusives and potentially cheaper price of entry
Uno Venova
Banned
EDGE rumors.
BattleMonkey
Member
Sounds like PS4 and my PC will be all I need
Oppo
Member
The image in the OP. 2nd para.
Alx
Member
it's "will always maintain a network connection". Not "must".
dragonelite
Member
We still dont know the specs not that i think it will be any better then the shitty specs of the rumors. They were spot on with Sony stuff so yeah maybe they are right. But just like i said if this is the info they have to work with(SDK documentation shitty pictures) then the DRM part was written for hits. Or they are confused on what always online means in the context written here.
But then again we are talking about the gaming industry and it is evolving more and more into the music industry with the drm left and right and exclusive publisher platforms and stuff.
Meccanical
Member
gaming_noob
Member
^ I don't think the document from OP is part of a hoax. Can lherre or Stinkles confirm?
GuitarAtomik
Member
That is a big difference.
I'll ask this again. Do you think it's feasible for one of the big 3 to release a console this year that is 100% digital games with no physical media? If not why? Why doesn't that apply to the idea of an always online console? Do you think any of the manufacturers are so disconnected from reality that they don't already realize that?
Uno Venova
Banned
Like I said, it's just a semantics game itt..
Maximilian Kolbe
Member
What they reported other than Sony bump the RAM to 8GB?i just forgot the article
BradleyLove
Member
This is not true. The bluray spec supports 1080p60. It doesn't support 1080p48. It has nothing to do with streaming speed.
Maximilian Kolbe
Member
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=50798253#post50798253
The whole sentence is "The console will be ready instantly when users want to play, and will always maintain a network connection so that console software and games are always current."