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[Dave Meltzer]

Wait... you really think Nintendo would mess with PC configurations if they turn to 3rd party? No way, they'd stick to consoles to squeeze only 2 different configurations.

Sega do. Sega are actually a pretty good PC publisher nowadays.

 

[AzaK]

To point out how serious this is, look at this link, and scroll through the UE3 section:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unreal_Engine_games

Notice all the developers( among the numerous AAA titles) who are now comfortable with the Unreal Engine tool kit and most likely will naturally move to UE4 for future development.

Now realize that the Wii U may never see any titles on this list starting in 2014 and beyond (if not now with recent news).

Or they are comfortable with it and don't want to spend more money moving to UE 4 if they don't have to.

 

[AniHawk]

If you count XBLA and PSN, I don't see how you can't say there's a pretty broad range of software available for those two systems. Three of my favourite platformers (Super Meat Boy, Braid and Fez) were on 360 and/or PS3.

platformers on the 360 and ps3 are sorta like first-person shooters on the wii. the audience is there and they will buy the good ones, or games with effort, but the environment wasn't really fostered by the first-party developers outside of maybe one game. my point was, when people discount the ps3 or 360's libraries, they tend to look only at retail for the games that are big on the wii. when people do the same to the wii, they're looking only at the retail, but also the games that are big on the 360 and ps3.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Smash Bros. will arrive soon enough, but I'm worried about their controller situation though. The CC/pro series works, but they weren't specialized for Nintendo games.

Didn't Iwata imply that it wouldn't be released this year? He said that the 3D Mario and Mario Kart would be playable at E3 while Smash Bros. would only have screens. Which I guess means we'll see a trailer.

Fascinating then that Nintendo just sat on their thumbs and watched as Eurocom, developers of the damn decent Goldeneye Wii, fell apart and had to find employment in that always bulging appstore world.

Opportunities to expand were not seized, and Nintendo's conservative approach to the future has got them into this mess. Its all just too damned deserved to feel bad for them.

They pretty much allowed MS to take away that multiplayer market that they created with the N64. RARE should've been working on a new shooter for the console. One that would be ready in the first year.

 

[Steve McQueen]

Because it has games people want?

That's what I meant to say.

Even 3DS isn't getting good 3rd party support, though, so specs obviously matter a bit.

Doesn't harm the sales atm.

This lazy argument again? Just because specs matter doesnt mean they are the only thing thst matters. Besides nintendo fucked the wiiu up in 100 other ways.

Why is this lazy? Come on....this is GAF, we care, but most people who play games now and then don't give a damn about specs. I bet most of the people that own a console nowadays aren't even aware of the specs of any current consoles, or that a the PS4 and Durango are coming up. Most people do not even care. It's games that most people are interested in, not specs. And if the WiiU will eventually get some decent games, devs will support it, no matter the specs. Imo devs will go where the money is, not where the best specs are.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Sega do. Sega are actually a pretty good PC publisher nowadays.

Sega is a company whose American half is not only relevant, but makes major decisions about the company's future.

 

[la_briola]

Nothing of value was lost. Nintendo doesn't use it, so all is fine.

edit: for me, of course.

 

[nekomix]

Sega do. Sega are actually a pretty good PC publisher nowadays.

Sega doesn't do Nintendo numbers.

 

[ffdgh]

*sigh* Depressing as usual. I'll hold on to false hope that they can turn this disaster around.

 

[Ridley327]

Didn't Iwata imply that it wouldn't be released this year? He said that the 3D Mario and Mario Kart would be playable at E3 while Smash Bros. would only have screens. Which I guess means we'll see a trailer.

That's what I'm gathering as well; with Sakurai's recent health issues, I doubt we'll be seeing it in 2013. I could see Nintendo spending cash to ensure that it gets a spring 2014 release, but that's the best case scenario as I can tell.

 

[Dave Meltzer]

Sega doesn't do Nintendo numbers.

So? Nintendo won't do Nintendo numbers if current trends continue

 

[Dave Meltzer]

Sega is a company whose American half is not only relevant, but makes major decisions about the company's future.

Well before Nintendo go third party, they'll need a CEO who isn't an idiot. Maybe that CEO would be wise enough to ramp up Western influence.

 

[Version 3.0]

Precisely. You know it's gonna work out well for Ubisoft. once Wii U starts rolling along they'll be the ones up to speed.

Like they did on Wii? Ubisoft got to to reveal the very first Wii game ever shown - Red Steel - and they still never put any real effort into Wii game development.

 

[majik13]

Not quite 8 year old but the idea is not all that different from Nintendo's previous idea of GBA and GC connectivity or Sony's remote play, both ideas that maybe 10 people in the world loved.

well my point was that he was basing the price of the wii u soley on the console components, and not considering the price of the gamepad controller.

 

[Dysun]

Regardless of what you think of Nintendo and Wii U, this quote (if true) is wildly unprofessional and speaks volumes about why the games industry has a reputation of being run by arrogant children.

Yes because I'd rather they laugh in private, lie to my face, and leave me knowing that they fed me a bullshit line like the rest of the PC world

 

[Oblivion]

Didn't Iwata imply that it wouldn't be released this year? He said that the 3D Mario and Mario Kart would be playable at E3 while Smash Bros. would only have screens. Which I guess means we'll see a trailer.

Wait, did he actually confirm that SSB4 won't be playable at E3? Or is that just conjecture?

 

[VinLAURiA]

Disagreed. Just about every home console they've released since the N64 has had at least a few baffling design decisions that wound up hurting it in the long run. I love Nintendo's games and the idea of them creating their own hardware-software ecosystem, but on a certain level I admit that their engineering just isn't very good. It's the equivalent of some run-down restaurant on Kitchen Nightmares, and they need a Gordon Ramsay help them get their act together. Honestly, if the Wii U doesn't recover in a big way, they need to hire someone like Cerny and get to work on a smarter, more sensible successor.

Arg! This is what I don't get, and people keep saying it over and over! "Get their act together?" If they were to make another 720, how would that have helped? How would that - at all - have improved their situation? Another system with a standard controller that's comparable in power to the other two: they-- they tried that! With the GameCube! It. Didn't. WORK. Why would it work two generations later?!

 

[Dave Meltzer]

Arg! This is what I don't get, and people keep saying it over and over! "Get their act together?" If they were to make another 720, how would that have helped? How would that - at all - have improved their situation? Another system with a standard controller that's comparable in power to the other two: they-- they tried that! With the GameCube! It. Didn't. WORK. Why would it work two generations later?!

Because they had momentum with Wii and they should have done a much better job maintaining their audience and delivering a product they were interested in.

Instead, Wii U.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Wait, did he actually confirm that SSB4 won't be playable at E3? Or is that just conjecture?

He specifically noted that the 3D Mario and Mario Kart would be playable. All he said about Smash Bros. is that Sakurai would deliver screenshots at the event.

 

[Ridley327]

Wait, did he actually confirm that SSB4 won't be playable at E3? Or is that just conjecture?

He didn't SPECIFICALLY say that it wouldn't be playable, but he mentioned that both 3D Mario and Mario Kart would be, while SSB4 would have a more limited presence.

 

[MisterHero]

Didn't Iwata imply that it wouldn't be released this year? He said that the 3D Mario and Mario Kart would be playable at E3 while Smash Bros. would only have screens. Which I guess means we'll see a trailer.

Yeah it's not coming this year. Don't forget that they're also making a 3DS game. That may or not be a good decision if people stick to 3DS and don't have to pick up a Wii U for it.

 

[Oblivion]

He specifically noted that the 3D Mario and Mario Kart would be playable. All he said about Smash Bros. is that Sakurai would deliver screenshots at the event.

He didn't SPECIFICALLY say that it wouldn't be playable, but he mentioned that both 3D Mario and Mario Kart would be, while SSB4 would have a more limited presence.

I see. Hopefully it turns out to be playable, otherwise me getting into E3 will be a waste this year.

 

[VinLAURiA]

Because they had momentum with Wii and they should have done a much better job maintaining their audience and delivering a product they were interested in.

Instead, Wii U.

And the product Wii audiences would've been interested in is another PS4? I honestly don't understand this. You realize who the majority of people who bought the Wii were, right? They don't share our tastes. "More power" doesn't appeal to casuals. Seeing the same controller we've had since the PS1 days doesn't appeal to casuals. Should the system have come out when more Nintendo games were ready to capture the ever-present Nintendo first-party fans? Yes. But seriously, do you even know what they could've done to capture the casual audience? 'Cause I'll tell you right now - nothing they could've done would ever get the attention of hardcores with no interest in Nintendo. They already have their 360/PS3 and they're likely already gonna get their 720/PS4.

 

[AkIRA_22]

Why is this lazy? Come on....this is GAF, we care, but most people who play games now and then don't give a damn about specs. I bet most of the people that own a console nowadays aren't even aware of the specs of any current consoles, or that a the PS4 and Durango are coming up. Most people do not even care. It's games that most people are interested in, not specs. And if the WiiU will eventually get some decent games, devs will support it, no matter the specs. Imo devs will go where the money is, not where the best specs are.

People do worry about the results those specs provide.

 

[AZ Greg]

Arg! This is what I don't get, and people keep saying it over and over! "Get their act together?" If they were to make another 720, how would that have helped? How would that - at all - have improved their situation? Another system with a standard controller that's comparable in power to the other two: they-- they tried that! With the GameCube! It. Didn't. WORK. Why would it work two generations later?!

It didn't work because the Gamecube was a purple box with a handle, software-wise it didn't do anything to shed the "kiddie" label, 3rd party relations still weren't taken seriously by Nintendo and the releases, or lack thereof, showed this, it used a proprietary disc format instead of DVD, etc...

People act like the Gamecube was shunned just because it was more of the same in terms of what their competitors were doing. But in actuality, it was shunned because of the above. Nintendo, thanks to their 1st party, is in the best position to be the go to "core" console. Nintendo just can't get their shit straight.

 

[D3RANG3D]

Sega does what Nintendon't.

FTFY

 

[Ridley327]

And the product Wii audiences would've been interested in is another PS4? I honestly don't understand this. You realize who the majority of people who bought the Wii were, right? They don't share our tastes. "More power" doesn't appeal to casuals.

One would argue that if the philosophy of the Wii U was centered around casuals first, then Nintendo clearly made a grave error in not noticing sooner that that crowd has moved onto mobile platforms and are not coming back.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Well before Nintendo go third party, they'll need a CEO who isn't an idiot. Maybe that CEO would be wise enough to ramp up Western influence.

Nintendo would need a lot of things before they go third party, or else people will have to face the sobering reality that a third-party Nintendo would be a nightmare and not gumdrops and ice cream for other platform owners.

 

[VinLAURiA]

It didn't work because the Gamecube was a purple box with a handle, software-wise it didn't do anything to shed the "kiddie" label, 3rd party relations still weren't taken seriously by Nintendo and the releases, or lack thereof, showed this, it used a proprietary disc format instead of DVD, etc...

Is that what this boils down to? Kiddie? Because the third-parties deciding not to release on GameCube wasn't Nintendo's fault or problem, and most Gen6 games weren't even over a gig so this constant "proprietary disc" argument is a load of tripe. The GameCube disc was a smaller DVD with less space, but still more than enough for most games that were coming out at the time and storing games on one was no more complex than storing games on a normal DVD with the same amount of space.

Two generations later, and that's what this all about: the GameCube failed because it was a purple box and the first-party stuff was kiddie. That's what you're telling me.

 

[Dave Meltzer]

Nintendo would need a lot of things before they go third party, or else people will have to face the sobering reality that a third-party Nintendo would be a nightmare and not gumdrops and ice cream for other platform owners.

I don't see how third party Nintendo can be anything but good for video game fans.

And the product Wii audiences would've been interested in is another PS4? I honestly don't understand this. You realize who the majority of people who bought the Wii were, right? They don't share our tastes. "More power" doesn't appeal to casuals. Seeing the same controller we've had since the PS1 days doesn't appeal to casuals. Should the system have come out when more Nintendo games were ready to capture the ever-present Nintendo first-party fans? Yes. But seriously, do you even know what they could've done to capture the casual audience? 'Cause I'll tell you right now - nothing they could've done would ever get the attention of hardcores with no interest in Nintendo. They already have their 360/PS3 and they're likely already gonna get their 720/PS4.

When did I say they needed more power.

I think Wii U should probably have just been a better motion control gimmick with a bit more power, with the money saved from the stupid tablet gimmick being spent on some better hardware, and trying to launch at $250 again. They'd still get shitty third party support, but at least the system wouldn't be a flop.

 

[Replicant]

Accept it Luigi Hats, Wii U is the laughing stock of the industry. As long as you enjoy it thats all that matters.
I can imagine a room full of developers eating lunch, a random guy walks in & yells out Wii U & the room erupts in jovial laughter.

For some reason that imaginary scenario made me laugh harder than what transpired @ GDC. XD

 

[MisterHero]

Is that what this boils down to? Kiddie? Because the third-parties deciding not to release on GameCube wasn't Nintendo's fault or problem, and most Gen6 games weren't even over a gig so this constant "proprietary disc" argument is a load of tripe. The GameCube disc was a smaller DVD with less space, but still more than enough for most games that were coming out at the time and storing games on one was no more complex than storing games on a normal DVD with the same amount of space.

So that's what it boils down to. The GameCube failed because it was a purple box and the first-party stuff was kiddie. That's what you're telling me.

I don't know what's more sad; publishers and media who repeated it back then, or customers for eating it up and still are.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

I don't see how third party Nintendo can be anything but good for video game fans.

Think about what markets Nintendo targets, what its shareholders want, what they make when they're under duress, and how easily they've transitioned into HD development on their own hardware.

Hint: you're not going to get a steady release of next-gen AAA hardcore Nintendo franchises. You'll get half-baked, rushed out Mario and Mario Kart games for consoles with even less originality than before and at a faster pace, and a bunch of Japanese-only browser and phone Pokemon games.

 

[AZ Greg]

Is that what this boils down to? Kiddie? Because the third-parties deciding not to release on GameCube wasn't Nintendo's decision, and most Gen6 games weren't even over a gig so this constant "proprietary disc" argument is a load of tripe. The GameCube disc was a smaller DVD with less space, but still more than enough for most games that were coming out at the time and storing games on one was no more complex than storing games on a normal DVD with the same amount of space.

So that's what it boils down to. The GameCube failed because it was a purple box and the first-party stuff was kiddie. That's what you're telling me.

So why didn't 3rd parties support it like the PS2/Xbox? It wasn't a power issue. It wasn't hardware sales since GC sold around the same as Xbox. So it either falls on Nintendo's relationship building skills with them or on GC owners/Nintendo fans who historically don't support third-party efforts as well as owners of the competing consoles. Regardless, both of those shouldn't be a cause for completely switching your strategy. Now that the Wii fad is over, Nintendo is seeing this. Only problem now, however, is that their temporary success with the Wii has hurt their image with core gamers and 3rd parties even more than the GC did. And the casuals who kept them afloat with the Wii have all moved to greener pastures.

 

[Schnozberry]

Yes because I'd rather they laugh in private, lie to my face, and leave me knowing that they fed me a bullshit line like the rest of the PC world

Or, you know, he could have just said that Epic won't be supporting it, but it would be up to licensees. That way he can still be honest without being a total jackass.

 

[Starfish Hero]

Because they had momentum with Wii and they should have done a much better job maintaining their audience and delivering a product they were interested in.

Instead, Wii U.

If momentum didn't help the Wii U, why would it help this idealized Wii U? The mainstream audience that ate up the Wii wouldn't be even less interested in a console that offers little unique features.

 

[dmr87]

I own Nintendo consoles for their 1st party games, I'll play the rest on PS4/PC. Sure it's sad for Nintendo but I don't really care.

 

[Box]

I don't see how third party Nintendo can be anything but good for video game fans.

I'm pretty sure anyone can think of how it might not be a good thing.

 

[VinLAURiA]

So why didn't 3rd parties support it like the PS2/Xbox? It wasn't a power issue. It wasn't hardware sales since GC sold around the same as Xbox. So it either falls on Nintendo's relationship building skills with them or on GC owners/Nintendo fans who historically don't support third-party efforts as well as owners of the competing consoles. Regardless, both of those shouldn't be a cause for completely switching your strategy. Now that the Wii fad is over, Nintendo is seeing this. Only problem now, however, is that their temporary success with the Wii has hurt their image with core gamers and 3rd parties even more than the GC did. And the casuals who kept them afloat with the Wii have all moved to greener pastures.

GameCube failed due to the very reason PS2 succeeded: gamers go where the devs are and devs go where the gamers are. Coming off of Gen5's honeymoon with the PS1, all the gamers had already made up their mind to get a PS2. Gen6 was decided before it began. Only reason Sony's success didn't continue with the PS3 was because they couldn't have screwed up the PS3's launch any harder. I honestly don't see how making another GameCube would've helped them in Gen7. And if gamers are still jealous and bitter about the Wii's success after it found a more lucrative audience that it's affecting their image of Nintendo, then maybe they should man up.

I don't see how third party Nintendo can be anything but good for video game fans.

I'm going to indulge my irrational emotional side for a second, so bear with me:

"You point and laugh from your Xboxes and PlayStations at Nintendo rather than support them by buying their systems, and then have the gall to ask for their games to come out on the very havens you used to ridicule them from?! You don't deserve Nintendo's games."

When did I say they needed more power.

I think Wii U should probably have just been a better motion control gimmick with a bit more power, with the money saved from the stupid tablet gimmick being spent on some better hardware, and trying to launch at $250 again. They'd still get shitty third party support, but at least the system wouldn't be a flop.

This is actually reasonable.

 

[The Hermit]

I figured I'd ask straight-out, so during the Q&A with Rein, I did. "Will UE4 run on the Wii U?"

"Hahaha no." Rein said, with expert comedic timing. The room erupted with laughter.

Holy shit

This is the funniest thing I've read all day, wow

I laughed too... but I imagine if I had a Wiiu I would drop a tear.

 

[Haunted]

Think about what markets Nintendo targets, what its shareholders want, what they make when they're under duress, and how easily they've transitioned into HD development on their own hardware.

Hint: you're not going to get a steady release of next-gen AAA hardcore Nintendo franchises. You'll get half-baked, rushed out Mario and Mario Kart games for consoles with even less originality than before and at a faster pace, and a bunch of Japanese-only browser and phone Pokemon games.

Nintendo getting Sega'd?

say it ain't so


edit: everyone just put all of the games on the PC. or the splorgenborg

 

[GC|Simon]

I don't see how third party Nintendo can be anything but good for video game fans.

And I don't see how third party Sony can be anything but good for the video game fans. Can people who are going to be PS4/Xbox 720/PC-only please stop to basically beg for Ninteno games on their systems?

Nintendo won't go 3rd party, no matter what. They got tons of money on their bank accounts and they will make profit with the Wii U like they did with the N64 and the GameCube. If you want the next Mario / Zelda / Metroid game or things like The Wonderful 101 and Bayonetta 2: Get a Wii U. It is as easy as that.

I personally cannot wait until E3. Then this doom and gloom shit will finally stop.

Edit: And plase also stop to cry for better Nintendo hardware. Look back at the GameCube times: The GameCube had more hadware power than the PS2 and a classic controller. The GameCube sales were on par with the Xbox sales for a couple of years. And - surprise, surprise - the support of Western 3rd parties still sucked. No GTA and bad ports of games like SSX.

 

[coinoperatedboy]

I don't understand people who actually think Nintendo should have jumped in the arms race.
They tried that once with the game cube (and don't spout that crap about it looking funny or the discs that were fine in relation to the amount of data games contained).
No way that they could compete with sony and MS who have been playing this game for a whole generation longer.

 

[MisterHero]

who needs nintendo when theres playstation all-stars battle royale

people only buy nintendo for smash anyways

I don't understand people who actually think Nintendo should have jumped in the arms race.
They tried that once with the game cube (and don't spout that crap about it looking funny or the discs that were fine in relation to the amount of data games contained).
No way that they could compete with sony and MS who have been playing this game for a whole generation longer.

They did it twice with N64. It didn't work.

 

[?oe?oe]

Wow, this thread is embarrassing...

 

[EmCeeGramr]

"wow, nintendo, you're making hd f-zero that's modern in every way, a dark souls style 1080p 60fps zelda, console pokemon, five new ips, and a gritty but satirical mach rider reboot from platinum, wow this is just great"
-gaffer having a wonderful dream in 2016 before waking up and seeing a bait-and-switch wario64 thread about a new fire emblem game finally coming only it looks like a flash game and it's a f2p phone title and no plans for a western release

 

[AZ Greg]

GameCube failed due to the very reason PS2 succeeded: gamers go where the devs are and devs go where the gamers are. Coming off of Gen5's honeymoon with the PS1, all the gamers had already made up their mind to get a PS2.

Then explain why the Xbox had much better 3rd party support than the GC despite facing the same PS2 juggernaut and selling about the same as the GC?

 

[KillerTravis]

Well the Wii didn't support UE3 or Frostbite 2 and still got some great games. I'd really not start worrying until after this holiday period when Wii U had it's first year and the other consoles are already out.

 

[Azure J]

"wow, nintendo, you're making hd f-zero that's modern in every way, a dark souls style 1080p 60fps zelda, console pokemon, five new ips, and a gritty but satirical mach rider reboot from platinum, wow this is just great"
-gaffer having a wonderful dream in 2016 before waking up and seeing a bait-and-switch wario64 thread about a new fire emblem game finally coming only it looks like a flash game and it's a f2p phone title and no plans for a western release

Forgot to mention people pining for the good old days and waxing nostalgic on the Wii.

 

[not_so_special]

I don't understand people who actually think Nintendo should have jumped in the arms race.
They tried that once with the game cube (and don't spout that crap about it looking funny or the discs that were fine in relation to the amount of data games contained).
No way that they could compete with sony and MS who have been playing this game for a whole generation longer.

they have money,more than sony,so? they got conservative and lazy

Then explain why the Xbox had much better 3rd party support than the GC despite facing the same PS2 juggernaut and selling about the same as the GC?

microsoft was much much supportive of western thirds?