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[ViperVisor]

Nintendo had not one but two opportunities to position itself perfectly. The first was back in 2010 when it could have released a WiiU specced system (minus the technically impressive but expensive and pointless tablet controller) and managed to make the HD console market a true 3 way fight.

This was and is a stupid idea.

Either make a new console or don't. The Wii HD Pachter nonsense was dumb enough but WTF does a clone console on the other 2 in 2010 do? And what Nintendo games would of been released on it when you considered what they have released at the end of the Wii run and start of Wii U's?

 

[not_so_special]

I'm not sure what I'm molesting, but my general point was that it's unprofessional and childish, which is something that should be discussed amongst an industry that claims that it wants its output to be recognized like film and books, which the other poster I replied to seemed to understand. It's clear this went right over your head, with both of your posts illustrating that.

This level of unprofessionalism isn't some sort of isolated incident.

what went over my head its that your response was making a big fuss about nothing,in the vein of -look they laugh at nintendo,omg to the barricades-

have u been on a professional movies panel or critics ( book,magazine)convention? because its the same,people make jokes,laugh..you know..they are human beigns and in a good mood,excuse them if some irritating fanboy takes this thing too seriously,its not their fault
Last time i checked gdc panels were a good place to chat and have fun,not a funeral

btw sorry for my english,i know its abysmal

 

[NotLiquid]

I don't expect them to sell millions and millions day 1. But last gen, there was a Wii to compete with them. This time around, I don't see where the competition is coming from.

If we're expecting slow sales, I can easily see the competition being... well, themselves. This is the first time in a while when we're expecting two new consoles coming out in just about the same timeframe and holiday period; one which looks to offer everything a gamer could want from a console and one which is a heavily established brand name in the west, particularly the US.

Sony is most likely looking to compete with Xbox at their home turf and the race can go either way at this point. Depending on the prices and compatibility with previous software, either or can end up faltering heavily out of the gate, or just strike a lukewarm balance. Wii U is just going to become an x-factor in that equation.

 

[GhostTrick]

Not the entire industry at first because of cross generation games, but the focus will be on the next gen versions even if they sell less

And the more they'll focus, the more they'll lose money. People are still thinking they can throw money like this while a lot of big publishers are facing difficulties.

 

[MisterHero]

Honestly, I think Nintendo Land is a more convincing demonstration of what the GamePad can do than Wii Sports was for the Wii Remote. It's a far, far better game, but tablet controls aren't new and novel and didn't "become a thing" the way motion controls did.

Recent history is somewhat amusing given that everyone was expecting Revolution to feature the touchscreen controller.

Wii U's pad is pretty much the 3rd iteration of the same concept. GBA connectivity, dual screens, Wii U. That said, it's pretty comfortable [if not bulky] as a standard controller.

I wonder if the streaming tech behind the pad can be repurposed as a method for VR gaming in this same gen. Sounds crazy, but I feel like Nintendo's heading in that direction.

 

[TheDrowningMan]

I don't expect them to sell millions and millions day 1. But last gen, there was a Wii to compete with them. This time around, I don't see where the competition is coming from.

Microsoft missed its early targets by a mile with the entire market to itself.

 

[SturokBGD]

I don't think it was ever particularly realistic to expect UE4 on the Wii U. At an absolute basic level, no matter how you slice it, under the hood the Wii U could be said to be give or take largely on par with the 360 and PS3. There's already a version of the Unreal Engine that targets those kinds of platforms, and Epic have already done their part and made those tools available for possible Wii U development. The UE4 engine is a showcase for considerably higher spec sheets, that's what Epic are aiming for, that's what they're trying to sell; a toolset for tomorrow's tech. It was the same with the Wii. If third parties wanted an engine for their games on Wii, then Epic provided one - UE2.

^ yeah, basically this.

The issue with Nintendo and third parties goes much, much deeper than which version of the Unreal Engine is out there. You can't blame Mark Rein for what kinds of games Nintendo and third parties bring to the Wii U. I would go as far as to say at this point that even if the Wii U was as powerful as what we've seen of the PS4, and Epic were to push UE4 on it, it really wouldn't make a whole hell of a lot of difference.

 

[GhostTrick]

Well they've been willing to change platforms for decades.

Because they could see the benefit from upgrading. And because the market was expanding. And also because we could se huge upgrades in graphics. Costs were smaller.

 

[Dave Meltzer]

Microsoft missed its early targets by a mile with the entire market to itself.

OK?

I'm not really interested in short term sales. I'm talking about the generation as a whole. PS4 and 720 may start slow, sure. But I find it hard to imagine the console market is going to shrink is such a massive way that they'll do as badly long term as Wii U looks to be doing.

 

[RedSwirl]

I'm honestly tired of people calling the GamePad a complete failure just five months after the system's launch. The "second wave" of Wii U games isn't even being talked about yet. To me it sounds like shades of what people were saying about the DS in early 2005.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

have u been on a professional movies panel or critics ( book,magazine)convention? because its the same,people make jokes,laugh..you know..they are human beigns and in a good mood,excuse them if some irritating fanboy takes this thing too seriously,its not their fault

last time i checked gdc panels were a good place to chat and have fun,not a funeral

I have a problem with someone being a tool while representing the gaming industry and while being asked a question that can be answered without a ton of ridicule. His follow-up with IGN was just as bad, if not worse.

I'm not sure why my position on Mark Rein's comments and general unprofessionalism in the games industry bothers you so much, buddy.

 

[JordanN]

Huh? Did you look at it? The Wii got Legends. It was a dumb spin off that no one liked, but it's still technically an entry.

You can drop Legends from the discussion. I'm talking about the fighting series.

But the PSP got Broken Destiny, which was directly based on 4, only with different single player modes, improved character creation and obviously worse graphics. If the PSP could get a version of 4, there was nothing power-wise stopping the Wii from getting one.

Except for having to rebuild the game again for Wii. The gamecube never presented this obstacle.

 

[BlackJace]

I'm honestly tired of people calling the GamePad a complete failure just five months after the system's launch. The "second wave" of Wii U games isn't even being talked about yet. To me it sounds like shades of what people were saying about the DS in early 2005.

It seems like a lot of things about this industry are cyclical.

 

[Visualante2]

Will be interesting to see if Fortnite comes to WiiU. Seems a good fit but it's all about where Epic sees the most profit.

 

[not_so_special]

And you're thinking the whole industry will get away from PS360 to throw millions on consoles with no userbase ?
Games will cost a lot more, userbases will be a lot smaller.

you know? i remember this same argument on the ps2 to ps3 and xbox360 days

I'm not sure why my position on Mark Rein's comments and general unprofessionalism in the games industry bothers you so much, buddy.

doesnt bother me at all,its just you are making a big fuss about nothing,thats not the news

 

[SeanR1221]

This too. I'm not one of the "out there" Nintendo fans who randomly thinks that Durango and PS4 will sell as poorly as the Wii U, but when the entire industry's contracted by ~20% two years in a row and Square-Enix loses enough money that they have to restructure the company because their three latest AAA games only sold a combined total of 7 million copies, there are things to worry about.

I'm considering going PC more and more next gen...and I love my 360.

 

[Dave Meltzer]

I'm honestly tired of people calling the GamePad a complete failure just five months after the system's launch. The "second wave" of Wii U games isn't even being talked about yet. To me it sounds like shades of what people were saying about the DS in early 2005.

The problem is, who is excited about the dual screen of the 3DS? Or the touch screen aspect of it?

It's hard to see the Gamepad as being exciting or something with potential to really improve games when it's just doing shit we've seen before. Yay, a map. Yay, a touch screen. I know all this shit.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

I'm honestly tired of people calling the GamePad a complete failure just five months after the system's launch. The "second wave" of Wii U games isn't even being talked about yet. To me it sounds like shades of what people were saying about the DS in early 2005.

Not only that but the Gamepad itself is a gamechanger for many that have experienced Off Tv play.

Maybe not revolutionary but playing full fledged games in bed is a big deal.

As far as games/developers making great use of the second screen the "intended" way, that's up to them and their imaginations.

I'm sure we'll see some really innovative ideas, just not at all across the board.

 

[Orayn]

I'm considering going PC more and more next gen...and I love my 360.

I've been Nintendo/PC since 2006, no regrets whatsoever. (I did get a 360, but it hasn't seen that much use outside of Halo 3 and Dark Souls.)

 

[Chinpoko_Master]

This too. I'm not one of the "out there" Nintendo fans who randomly thinks that Durango and PS4 will sell as poorly as the Wii U, but when the entire industry's contracted by ~20% two years in a row and Square-Enix loses enough money that they have to restructure the company because their three latest AAA games only sold a combined total of 7 million copies, there are things to worry about.

It depends on what you mean by contracting. Sales have been down but that has more to do with this console generation winding down, which was bound to happen at some point. This generation has already gone on too long as is.

Square-Enix is doing poorly because they're Square-Enix. They've had their head up their ass this entire generation and Wada has finally stepped down after years of poor management. I don't think they're a good representation of the industry.

 

[gundalf]

This is strange... I had a talk with Mark Rein & he told me UE4 will be a very versatile engine that will work with small and large games alike... so why won't it work on a modest chipset like Wii U?

It's certainly more powerful than an ipad...

Yes you are right, its not about processing power.
The real reason is that the PowerPC architecture is dead and Epic don't see the market to port and support their new engine for that little Platform.
Needles to say that Mark Rein is probably kinda salty about the fact, that Nintendo heavily supports the Unity Engine.

 

[metalslimer]

When Nintendo's premier core launch game is NSMBU, no wonder people will doubt the gamechanger gamepad. Nintendo's brought every bit of skepticism on themself. I'm sure there will be some clever uses eventually

 

[BGBW]

What Nintendo really should have done was make a dock able table that could connect to bluetooth Wii controllers for multiplayer action.

A table? If I wanted a table I'd go to IKEA.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

I'm honestly tired of people calling the GamePad a complete failure just five months after the system's launch. The "second wave" of Wii U games isn't even being talked about yet. To me it sounds like shades of what people were saying about the DS in early 2005.

It's weird, and it's a trend that keeps happening.

DS vs PSP
Wii vs HD Twins
3DS vs Vita. This one was especially glorious because the 3DS didn't come out the gate doing gangbusters, everyone was SURE it was doomed.

Nintendo isn't in a good place right now with the WiiU, but it's way too early to count them out. With that said, they've got some work to do with the system, and I'm not 100% sure they'll turn it around. I'm optimistic, though. Competition is a good thing, so Nintendo vanishing from the home console world isn't good for anyone except for console warriors.

doesnt bother me at all,its just you are making a big fuss about nothing,thats not the news

What the hell are you talking about? I made one post about the lack of professionalism to which someone quoted in response to. I'm not making a big fuss out of anything. In fact, the only reason it's still being discussed is because you keep responding to me.

 

[NotLiquid]

Not only that but the Gamepad itself is a gamechanger for many that have experienced Off Tv play.

Maybe not revolutionary but playing full fledged games in bed is a big deal.

As far as games/developers making great use of the second screen the "intended" way, that's up to them and their imaginations.

I'm sure we'll see some really innovative ideas, just not at all across the board.

Personally this is why I'm rather miffed by the lack of support as of late, since with the Wii and GC I didn't really bat much of an eye towards the games it didn't get as I didn't feel those consoles had something that made them feel like they benefit from being on them. I know Nintendo's games are going to excel but there are so many games coming and currently out there that I'd love to play on my pad while chilling and being unable to use the television.

 

[RedSwirl]

The problem is, who is excited about the dual screen of the 3DS? Or the touch screen aspect of it?

It's hard to see the Gamepad as being exciting or something with potential to really improve games when it's just doing shit we've seen before. Yay, a map. Yay, a touch screen. I know all this shit.

Feels a lot like the stuff that showed up during the very beginning of the DS's lifespan.

I'm just sayin'. If a control method get's enough developer support thrown at it, people eventually think up great ideas. That's what happened to the DS.

With that in mind, I'm a bit interesting in seeing what ramifications Nintendo's courting indies could have for the GamePad.

 

[not_so_special]

Not only that but the Gamepad itself is a gamechanger for many that have experienced Off Tv play.

Maybe not revolutionary but playing full fledged games in bed is a big deal.

As far as games/developers making great use of the second screen the "intended" way, that's up to them and their imaginations.

I'm sure we'll see some really innovative ideas, just not at all across the board.

the gamepad its a good idea,i love it,its not the problem of the wiiu

 

[NeonZ]

You can drop Legends from the discussion. I'm talking about the fighting series.

I'm talking about the Soul Calibur series too. Is Legends part of some other series I've never heard about?

Except for having to rebuild the game again for Wii. The gamecube never presented this obstacle.

They had already rebuilt Soulcalibur 4 and all of its assets aside from cutscenes for a lower powered console. And yet there was no Wii version.

 

[Fox318]

A table? If I wanted a table I'd go to IKEA.

:/

My bad I meant tablet.

TABLES ARE THE FUCKING FUTURE



LOOK AT THAT FACE. THE FUCKING FUTURE OF ENTERTAINMENT

 

[GhostTrick]

you know? i remember this same argument on the ps2 to ps3 and xbox360 days

Yes, and this generation was brillant in term of market.
Oh wait, it's the opposite. PS360 had a slow start. Lot of publishers died. THQ died. Square Enix is losing money, EA is struggling, games are expensive and have to sold 5 millions.
And PS2 to PS3 the difference was spotable graphic wise, but also in term of connectivity. People wanted to upgrade because of graphics and online.
Now do you think people will go crazy for graphics they may not be able to see the difference at the begining and for posting screenshots of their games ?

 

[Rocky]

There's no way Wind Waker, 3D Mario and Mario Kart U will all come out this year.

Why not? Ocarina remake, 3D Mario and Mario Kart all came out the same year for 3DS.

 

[JordanN]

Except they had already rebuilt the game and all of its assets aside from cutscenes for a lower powered console. And yet there was no Wii version.

PSP represented handheld technology for its time. It had to be downgraded.

The Wii willing came out with 2 powerful consoles shouldering it. Considering developers already made their bets with more power, the Wii looked like an outlier for its time.

Gamecube didn't.

Everything about being low powered requires more resources.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

Why not? Ocarina remake, 3D Mario and Mario Kart all came out the same year for 3DS.

I don't think we'll see all three, but I could be wrong. If we get all of them this year (especially all for Holiday 2013) it'll be a fantastic offering and a great way to stimulate sales, but I'd worry for the 2014 lineup. If Nintendo isn't getting third party support, they're going to have to step up first and second party development hardcore to offset that.

Also, for the love of god, please don't do a 15 minute presentation of WiiFitU at E3, Nintendo.

 

[Meelow]

All we know is UE4 can be ported to Wii U if a dev does it.

Still Mark could of just said that and not make it sound worse than it is.

 

[NeonZ]

PSP represented handheld technology for its time. It had to be downgraded.

The Wii willing came out with 2 powerful consoles shouldering it. Considering developers already made their bets with more power, the Wii looked like an outlier for its time.

Gamecube didn't.

That's all true, but I don't see where you're going with it. It's still a fact, in Soul Calibur 4's case, that they had assets that could have been used for a Wii version, but just didn't make one. The costs of those assets weren't a factor in that case because they did exist anyway.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

All we know is UE4 can be ported to Wii U if a dev does it.

Still Mark could of just said that and not make it sound worse than it is.

He's sad that Nintendo didn't tailor every aspect of their system to his unbelievable engine.

 

[Sandfox]

I don't think we'll see all three, but I could be wrong. If we get all of them this year (especially all for Holiday 2013) it'll be a fantastic offering and a great way to stimulate sales, but I'd worry for the 2014 lineup. If Nintendo isn't getting third party support, they're going to have to step up first and second party development hardcore to offset that.

Also, for the love of god, please don't do a 15 minute presentation of WiiFitU at E3, Nintendo.

They'll be announcing more games as well in addition to some of the game we already know about that should be coming in 2014.

 

[airmangataosenai]

I wish we had some footage of this so someone could make an equivalent snapshot to this:

 

[Ridley327]

PSP represented handheld technology for its time. It had to be downgraded.

The Wii willing came out with 2 powerful consoles shouldering it. Considering developers already made their bets with more power, the Wii looked like an outlier for its time.

Gamecube didn't.

Everything about being low powered requires more resources.

So, why is downgrading Soul Calibur 4 to a system with even worse specs than the Wii and a far more disastrous software sales situation more logical than just making a Wii version?

I guess I'm not really seeing the point that you're trying to make here in the face of the facts, but then Soul Calibur has always been a weird series about doing the obvious thing, like SC3 going PS2-exclusive and skipping arcades after how successful SC2 was on all the platforms it released on.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

the gamepad its a good idea,i love it,its not the problem of the wiiu

It is a good idea.

It just has limited appeal. Which is a problem when you are expecting a Wii phenomenon.

 

[shinra-bansho]

All we know is UE4 can be ported to Wii U if a dev does it.

Still Mark could of just said that and not make it sound worse than it is.

Remember this.

http://www.videogamer.com/news/unreal_engine_4_games_could_be_ported_to_wii_u_epic.html

It was also said UE4 can be ported to Wii U by a developer.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=51951426&postcount=39

Seriously...

It's not happening.

 

[Waylon Drums]

yeeish, that was cold.

And embarrassingly unprofessional. A theme I've begun to sense in the gaming industry.

 

[JordanN]

That's all true, but I don't see where you're going with it. It's still a fact, in Soul Calibur 4's case, that they had assets that could have been used for a Wii version, but just didn't make one. The costs of those assets weren't a factor in that case because they did exist anyway.

Look at all the hoops necessary to bring a game to the Wii. We're also talking a game that comes years after SCIV came out. From timing to resources, it becomes too much.

If the Wii was never weak, its chances for receiving a proper console port on day one, rises dramatically.

 

[Dave Meltzer]

Feels a lot like the stuff that showed up during the very beginning of the DS's lifespan.

I'm just sayin'. If a control method get's enough developer support thrown at it, people eventually think up great ideas. That's what happened to the DS.

With that in mind, I'm a bit interesting in seeing what ramifications Nintendo's courting indies could have for the GamePad.

Trust me, I really liked the DS. And I don't dislike the 3DS. But how many 3DS games are doing unique and interesting things with that second screen? Does it really feel like a necessary part of the system for most games?

The second screen has pretty much been reduced to a second HUD or a quick inventory management screen for most games.

 

[Starfish Hero]

Yes, and this generation was brillant in term of market.
Oh wait, it's the opposite. PS360 had a slow start. Lot of publishers died. THQ died. Square Enix is losing money, EA is struggling, games are expensive and have to sold 5 millions.
And PS2 to PS3 the difference was spotable graphic wise, but also in term of connectivity. People wanted to upgrade because of graphics and online.
Now do you think people will go crazy for graphics they may not be able to see the difference at the begining and for posting screenshots of their games ?

This makes me wonder: what, exactly, do people think will make the PS4 and/or 720 hits out of the gate? The biggest AAA titles are releasing at the same time as their launches on the PS3 and 360. Neither Sony nor Microsoft have first party titles that sell nearly as well as Nintendo's. Nintendo will probably have them beat on price as well, and even if they don't the old consoles definitely will. Shinier graphics haven't been a huge draw to mainstream consumers in 20 years. Where do people see guaranteed success in either of those consoles? If anything, the Wii U's woes (as well as the 3DS's and Vita's before it) paint a grim picture for any hardware launch. Unless that rumor of Call of Duty exclusivity on the PS4 and 720 ends up being true, I see no reason to expect those two to do any better than the Wii U is, at least not at first.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

It is a good idea.

It just has limited appeal. Which is a problem when you are expecting a Wii phenomenon.

I really don't think Nintendo thought an already used concept(by them to boot) would be as compelling to people as something no one has ever used before(the Wii Remote in its form).

Do I think they thought it would be more compelling to people than it has been so far???

Absolutely.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Seriously...
http://www.capitolhillblue.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/060812ronpaul.jpg[IMG]
It's not happening.[/QUOTE]
Not at the hands of Epic at least.

And no one is saying that any version of it on WiiU will be at feature parity with higher tech consoles or PC's.

[quote="TheGreatMightyPoo, post: 51993534"]I really don't think Nintendo thought an already used concept(by them to boot) would be as compelling to people as something no one has ever used before(the Wii Remote in its form).

Do I think they thought it would be more compelling than it has been so far???

Absolutely.[/QUOTE]
If they didn't expect something big from it, then I'm not sure what the point was.

Nintendo doing Nintendo?

 

[Kimawolf]

no,seriously,you seem very molest because some people laugh at that panel and you extrapolate that to the whole development comunity and gaming press

Well we have a entire other thread talking about how industry parties and "get togthers" should represent the industry, how they need to be professional etc etc, then we come here, and have a guy with an ego bigger than Tony Starks making fun of major platform holders and developers during an actual presentation, hooting it up, then fans joining in all the while they are decrying "professionalism" and "please take us serious! Let us at the big boys table!" You can't have it both ways.

 

[zainetor]

Seriously...

It's not happening.

there's no way ue4 can run properly on wiiu, withouth beeing terribly butchered.
Man, it even struggles with u3 sometimes.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

All we know is UE4 can be ported to Wii U if a dev does it.

Still Mark could of just said that and not make it sound worse than it is.

It's strange he'd go out of his way to make a soundbite. He doesn't have a history of being overly supportive of Nintendo hardware, though. I'm not surprised, I just think it was lame.

They'll be announcing more games as well in addition to some of the game we already know about that should be coming in 2014.

Yeah. I'd hope that Nintendo's presser is not an entire retread of the Direct that got everyone excited again, but "Panic mode" Nintendo should know better than that. I'm sure Retro's game will be shown, and I'm hoping for some new secret sauce as well.