Thunder Monkey
Banned
It honestly is.
If his intent is to be a joke character it could be funny for a time. But sooner or later people expect to see if there's more behind the veil than just anal fig jokes.
Kotaku: The Wii U Won't Be Getting Unreal Engine 4
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If his intent is to be a joke character it could be funny for a time. But sooner or later people expect to see if there's more behind the veil than just anal fig jokes.
I'm guessing he means that is sacrificing power in order to try and innovate the gameplay in their games.
SturokBGD
Member
Sorry, I was talking about my own posts. Click my name. Just a random little forum social experiment that has shown me some pretty ugly truths.
I wonder how many people have actually looked at Mark Rein's Twitter and compared it to Kotaku's angle.
It's supposed to be a hypothetical situation, like the ones in which most business decisions are made.
Ninja Scooter
Member
It is in their best interest to make their engine seem as efficient and versatile as possible. They were gunning for middleware from the start.
There we go. Now the facade is cracking.
There's a line between hypothetical and fantasy
The gamecube failed because it was just like the Ps2 or the Xbox, but didnt have a DVD player. They decided to stop running for the power route, like they did with the NES, SNES, 64 and Gamecube, and instead went the gameplay way. Offer new way to play games. The wii was very successfull on that regard, and the two competitor had to stop and turn around to go the Wii way. Now with the Wii U they added a new gameplay option, the Gamepad. I have no doubt that the Wii U will have more unique exclusive than the other two.
what nintendo would do to have a franchise like football manager to resurrect the possibility of anyone in europe buying one of their consoles.
metalslimer
Member
Bold claim for a system that is looking like it has no support let alone exclusives.
The consumer and the company technically decide when the next generation starts. Yes it was an early death for the Wii because game sales all but stopped, AAA third party stopped etc. Why would Sony and MS stop their consoles early if they're still selling quite well? Of course some deva aren't happy, but the past year and a half have seen some of the best games come out. Not to mention we still have the grand theft auto 5 juggernaut coming.
Console cycles don't need to necessarily be set in stone. And I'm all but certain Wii hasn't cracked up the hundred million barrier yet. And if the ps4 does come out this year, it means that ps3 was only out on the market for a year longer than the Wii. Remember, the Wii launched in 06 and the Wii U came out last November in 2012.
JohnnySasaki86
Member
hes basically saying that if a dev wanted to downport a UE4 game to Wii U it would be possible, but its highly unlikely, cause UE4 doesn't directly support Wii U. Its completely hypothetical. It would be very expensive to port it, but its possible, just as it would be technically possible to downport to 360. This has been said by others numerous times through out the thread.
This dichotomy is nonsense. More power allows for more innovation in games -- technological progress opens the door for more opportunities.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Well it will have some of my favorite exclusives.
*hugs LoZSS, SMG, and MP3*
*cries*
I guess it's good that I had a facade.
I don't think anyone in a position of power will see this as fantasy. Nintendo was much worse off prior to the Wii and look what happened - business foresight prevailed.
nintendo would have needed to have shipped 620,000 between last december and now for that to happen. it's a pretty reasonable suggestion.
metalslimer
Member
Assumed he meant 3rd party as obviously it will have 1st party games.
wii has held well with no games thanks to the price and wiiu failed launch. It looked like it would die before 100
Thunder Monkey
Banned
In a purely technical sense yes.
But it also potentially limits. Especially for larger investments. Risk is bad when you have a winning formula. It's even worse when $100 million is on the line.
I'm just being a bad jokester.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
He's no Kamiya.
metalslimer
Member
He's no Kamiya.
Im more interested with the more on the way comment.
Not if they have to buy Sammy as well.
In what universe?
The Wii was in the exact same position. And yet the support came. We got a pretty high numbers of gems that we cant play on anything else, all because of the new gameplay options.
The Wii U look like it will be the same thing. I really doubt that in 6 years, the Wii U wont have more exclusive than the Ps3 or 360. The Wii U play a different game from the other. They are not oblivious to the other either, but when the other consoles just try to compete with the PC, then why wont people simply buy a PC? The Wii U is trying new stuff, and like everything new, people hate it or are "afraid" of it.
RobbieNick
Junior Member
The Wii didn't have Unreal Engine 3 and it seemed to do just fine.
The only thing Wii U would need Unreal Engine 4 for is overblown, overbudgeted games that would need to sell 3-5 million copies to make it's money back and that ain't gonna happen. In the end, the Wii U will probably end up with an install base similar to Gamecube's and if that's the case, they'll need to keep their budget's low to be profitable. A NSMB will make much more money for them in the end than a game with a Tomb Raider sized budget.
The only thing Wii U would need Unreal Engine 4 for is overblown, overbudgeted games that would need to sell 3-5 million copies to make it's money back and that ain't gonna happen. In the end, the Wii U will probably end up with an install base similar to Gamecube's and if that's the case, they'll need to keep their budget's low to be profitable. A NSMB will make much more money for them in the end than a game with a Tomb Raider sized budget.
I should've ended my sentence with "in new ways" or something to that effect since that's what I meant lol.
Then how is Daylight getting created with Unreal Engine 4 by an indie studio?
Football Manager sells well on PC... At the PC scale. Mario games on handhelds sell more.
And when you (not only you) talk about Sega as a successful PC publisher, you forget to mention that they are focusing right now only on a few IPs like FM, Sonic, Total War in the West. It's like saying Nintendo only focuses on Mario, Pokémon, Animal Crossing, yay...
my money's on black college football: bcfx: the xperience director's cut
Third party support is non-existant, first party support is dragging their feet, sales are disastrous, marketing & branding is disastrous, the machine has no hook for the masses or the "hardcore" leaving it without an audience, etc.
It's getting increasingly safe to say the Wii U does not have a bright future, and the concept of Epic actually suffering for not supporting the Wii U in UE4 is laughable.
You don't need $100 million to take advantage of new technology.
If anything this generation will lead to cheaper games for developers who know what they're doing (most of them don't, however) -- less time squeezing assets into a tiny pool of memory or scrapping them because they can't be used and more time creating.
Tell that to the graveyard of devs who piled up this generation. The industry would be a lot more healthier if third parties were able to get a bigger slice of the Wii pie.
PaulExcellent
Member
Aw, man.
Talk about a blow to the WiiU's library.
Oh, well, except that he later said it was possible.
Huh.
Well, damn. I want the third-party industry to expand and use the WiiU's capabilities as much as I want first-party games to do the same. Honestly, I do not see why people are stating that third-party games are not why you would get a WiiU, and that they are not needed for the console.
I'm buying a WiiU to play all kinds of games. Not just Nintendo ones.
Talk about a blow to the WiiU's library.
Oh, well, except that he later said it was possible.
Huh.
Well, damn. I want the third-party industry to expand and use the WiiU's capabilities as much as I want first-party games to do the same. Honestly, I do not see why people are stating that third-party games are not why you would get a WiiU, and that they are not needed for the console.
I'm buying a WiiU to play all kinds of games. Not just Nintendo ones.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Lmao. So much sad, pathetic ignorance. Why don't you ask fellow GAFer Element if his game is overblown, overbudgeted and needs 3-4 million copies sold to break even. And while you are at it go look at a list of UE3 games. I get the feeling you are one of those guys that thing all UE games feature buff roided out bros. Educate yourself.
That's one scenario, yes, but is it invalde because the person is a Nintendo fan? What if they legitimately think that the company in question truly sucks? Is their opinion invalid because they are a Nintendo fan?
This will occur more and more, and definitely not only when someone says "well, this company sucks anyway, soo..." Maybe I'm wrong in worrying, but I suppose time will tell. Best of luck GAF!
Do you think Nintendo will not be able to release any of their massive IP's on the system before they end its life?
More power? Sure you can make more things happen, but most of the time, its to make things more shiny and good looking. Which is great, but its not the only thing. The SNES had plenty of gems and it was a 16 bit system. There was room for more. Same for the 32,64 bit era. More power simply mean that people dont have to think about how they do stuff, where with less power they have to think and do new stuff.
No More heroes or Kororinpa or Zack and Wiki for example. They went and they used the Wiimote to create something unique.
Joe Molotov
Member
He's no Kamiya.
Haters can't fade his swag.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
The console market of the past generation would disagree.
A few devs kept budgets manageable. Some even excelled under the constraints. But budgets for a good chunk of the generation were too high to be sustainable. And not every title has the luxury of having a built in userbase like Call of Duty or Grand Theft Auto.
The concept that I was pushing was that Epic was best off not supporting the Wii U. The sooner it dies, the better and more relevant they become and they'll eventually - through time - solidify UE as being the industry standard engine which would be hugely profitable for them. UE is highly used as it is but not enough to be considered industry standard, especially when newer developers are becoming more familiar with Unity.
Or they can let Wii U control the market and have Unity engine play catch up, and give that position over to them instead.
metalslimer
Member
That has nothing to with his comment. He said he has no doubt it will have more exclusives than the other two.
Okay stop. I can sort of understand this post if I do some really roundabout thinking:
It can be argued that the kind of gaming Nintendo is trying to promote is completely different from what companies like Epic/DICE/etcl are used to. Nintendo just has different ideas about where console gaming should go and they want to offer an experience different from what the other two console want. They may not even give a fuck about Frostbite 3 and UE4.
I could maybe see Nintendo's mission right now as an ideological battle against the kind of gaming that's prevalent on PlayStation and Xbox. If Epic counts themselves along with the Unreal Engine as being on one side of that battle, Nintendo can count itself as being on the other.
I mean, what are we really looking at the Wii U's loss of Unreal Engine 4 as here? A lack of competence on Nintendo's part? That they couldn't convince Epic to support their platform with the engine? Or that they simply decided they didn't to go for the kind of gaming that UE4 is supposed to support?
LiveFromKyoto
Member
It sucks, but on the other hand here we are 5 months in and even Nintendo themselves have only released two games for it. Both on launch day. WTF is going on with them? Why are they hanging this system out to dry so badly?
Yes, but that has more to do with bad management and indulging in excess than it does better technology. (although, the better technology allows them to indulge in excess, but that's their own bad decision)
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Unfortunately one of the biggest advantages I saw going forward in console development isn't quite there yet.
Baking lighting is generally a huge time sink. I was really hoping a purely realtime approach would be feasible.
Oh I don't disagree with your point.
It just seemed a little idealistic for this industry. Resistant to change unless delineating on a direct course of their choosing and the people in charge of funding said endeavors. Wanting a piece of whatever pie is hot.
SturokBGD
Member
The 'more on the way on UE3' comment should be what's interesting to game enthusiasts, yet somehow I don't see Kotaku or any of their bargain bin peers drawing attention to that statement. Much easier to get clicks whipping the internet into a furor by basically spinning on what we've known for just about as long as the Wii U has existed - that the system does not feature bleeding edge 3D graphics hardware. We've known that for a long time, it's not news. When you look at it that way, you can't really blame Mark Rein for getting a laugh out of being asked a stupid question.
Epic has an engine it is more than happy to license for Wii U games. It's not the next gen engine, but UE 3 is fine for Wii U games.
Honestly I agree with this. In some ways Nintendo kinda called it right with the Wii -- one of the reasons they went with a low-spec machine was to try to halt the increase in development costs.
You have to admit that for a lot of companies this gen, the HD twins were the wrong horse to bet on.
Don't know how that could play out next gen.
Yes. Also, considering Cerny's next game is developed by Sony Japan Studio and his past working experience in Japan, it's certainly is the best of both worlds.
In other words you have no idea?
You seem much less sure now..
Why can't you go into detail on these huge issues? Remember one thing here, you're the one making grand claims. I paraphrased Epic (that if a developer chose to port UE4 to WiiU they could do that) and you've spent a few posts now ranting at me about how impossible that is and what a silly idea it is. Well stop being vague and tell me what issues specifically WiiU's performance would cause with porting UE4.
WiiU doesn't use DX and we really don't know what its feature set is exactly, only that it began at DX10.1 level, also source please for GX2 being a shader model 4 specific API?
I don't know why you keep saying it at all, considering you can't tell me what these requirements are.
What? You just talked about needing to "tone down visuals" to get an engine ported, are you being willfully ignorant here?
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Nintendo games do seem to sell along with hardware. When that hardware does well the games do well, but there has to be a catalyst spurring that growth. Wii Sports/Fit were that for the Wii.
NintendoLand is not that for WiiU.
edit: So I don't expect the same performance out of Mario and Zelda this generation that we saw in the last.
Chie Satonaka
Member
You seem to be more bent out of shape about Kotaku reporting this than anything. I'd usually never defend Kotaku, but in this situation this isn't a sensationalist click bait article. It is exactly what happened.
Additionally, Rein himself called it a "gaffe", though as many have stated before, this isn't the first time he's been kinda shitty in regards to how he speaks of Nintendo. Even he's trying to clean it up a little. Why are you defending him?
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