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[ViperVisor]

That's nice and all but someone needs to inform the Japanese-centric Iwata that this won't help them.

The 90s are over, it's 2013 and Japanese games are a niche in today's western market.

This is legitimate and far reaching criticism not nit-picking price or power.

At the end of the 90s Nintendo was part of the movement. The had The Game you can point to, GoldenEye. They had exclusive MLB and NBA games.

Those games were more invigorated by the move to 3D than RPG, Platform, Fighting or Racing games.
I can see why they ceased the sports game development when you are limited to 1 platform when other sports games have budgets to make an all encompassing game.

But not putting money into having their own shooters as a result of the late 90s was questionable.

And then XBOX with Halo happened. N64 with GoldenEye the shoot-quel.

That should of been where the skeptics were convinced.

The online aspects of a console are more of a result to being aware of how games were evolving to be played. Those games need to exist and then you are pushed to put that online and a fire is under you to solve the problem. Nintendo didn't make those games.

I see how you can have a disconnect back in the 90s before high-speed internet. It was harder to have a grasp on what the other culture was in the market for.
Were the Nintendo of America people only Japan surrogates that were neutered or were they stupid?

 

[Infernal Monkey]

Wii U is the Nintendo 64 2.0

I wish. That'd mean the Wii U would have a bunch of super awesome arcade racers by now.

 

[Shion]

The console market of the past generation would disagree.

A few devs kept budgets manageable. Some even excelled under the constraints. But budgets for a good chunk of the generation were too high to be sustainable. And not every title has the luxury of having a built in userbase like Call of Duty or Grand Theft Auto.

This has less to do with hardware but more with the fact that there's a notion within the industry that every game needs to be a Michael Bay-style production.

Better hardware and technology have made even small and indie productions to look good.

 

[not_so_special]

Bold claim for a system that is looking like it has no support let alone exclusives.

he must forgot sony dev teams and ms money hats

 

[Radec]

The Wii didn't have Unreal Engine 3 and it seemed to do just fine.

The only thing Wii U would need Unreal Engine 4 for is overblown, overbudgeted games that would need to sell 3-5 million copies to make it's money back and that ain't gonna happen. In the end, the Wii U will probably end up with an install base similar to Gamecube's and if that's the case, they'll need to keep their budget's low to be profitable. A NSMB will make much more money for them in the end than a game with a Tomb Raider sized budget.

Add this to the 'fuck UE, they suck anyways" list.

 

[onipex]

This market is too busy playing super-cheap games on their tablets, smartphones as well as free browser games now.

Good luck making them buy a console and, more importantly, convincing those people becoming actual consumers on it.

This is actually one of the reasons why I believe that today's casual-centric Nintendo isn't going to release another home console after the Wii U.

What do you consider casual-centric Nintendo? I just haven't seen them do anything lately that makes them seem that way with the 3DS or Wii U. I thought people were labeling them casual centric with the Wii/DS because they were going after non-gamers using the blue ocean strategy but Nintendo has stated they are no longer using that strategy. Maybe they should try to go back to it instead of trying to do whatever they are doing now.

 

[DrWong]

That was kind of already covered in the first thread, in which he said it's possible to port UE4 to the Wii U, but UE3 is a better fit.

hes basically saying that if a dev wanted to downport a UE4 game to Wii U it would be possible, but its highly unlikely, cause UE4 doesn't directly support Wii U. Its completely hypothetical. It would be very expensive to port it, but its possible, just as it would be technically possible to downport to 360. This has been said by others numerous times through out the thread.

For me the news wasn't here, as you said it's was already known that UE4 is scalable. The news was Rein saying his declaration was a "gaffe".

I wouldn't like to be here when he'll meet Reggie in an elevator at E3, his body will not be ready for the phart.

 

[Unknown One]

Nintendo games do seem to sell along with hardware. When that hardware does well the games do well, but there has to be a catalyst spurring that growth. Wii Sports/Fit were that for the Wii.

NintendoLand is not that for WiiU.

edit: So I don't expect the same performance out of Mario and Zelda this generation that we saw in the last.

That's how I see it. The Wii sold a ton of system and since the parents already have the system they just bought Mario games. Unlike other publishers Nintendo has a household name. A lot of people associate gaming with Mario.

If you take that out of the equation, I bet there will be a drastic drop in Nintendo software.

 

[pixlexic]

if you down port UE4 to Wii u levels you probably just end up with UE3 functionality anyway. so whats the point? It isn't like UE4 is completely different from UE3. They both probably share the exact same base level apis.

 

[Joe Molotov]

The 'more on the way on UE3' comment should be what's interesting to game enthusiasts, yet somehow I don't see Kotaku or any of their bargain bin peers drawing attention to that statement. Much easier to get clicks whipping the internet into a furor by basically spinning on what we've known for just about as long as the Wii U has existed - that the system does not feature bleeding edge 3D graphics hardware. We've known that for a long time, it's not news. When you look at it that way, you can't really blame Mark Rein for getting a laugh out of being asked a stupid question.

"More on the way" meaning more PS3/360 ports. Aliens: Colonial Marines and Injustice: Gods Among Us coming out any day now!

 

[Thunder Monkey]

This has less to do with hardware but more with the fact that there's a notion within the industry that every game needs to be a Michael Bay-style production.

Better hardware and technology have made even small and indie productions to look good.

I freely admit this a problem for larger publishers more than the industry at large.

 

[not_so_special]

Well I think it's just the constant barrage of stories that makes people think it. and there's talking about sales and then there's "lol teh nintendo, lol nintendo fans lol" it only serves to make everyone defensive. with people feeling like they are celebrating a console's failure.

you are talking about every vita thread on this forum in the past months xD (3ds got the same too)

 

[wsippel]

Epic has an engine it is more than happy to license for Wii U games. It's not the next gen engine, but UE 3 is fine for Wii U games.

No it's not. Because the tools and workflow are worse, and that's what developers actually care about the most. Also, UE3 was designed with very different and older hardware in mind, and the Wii U version doesn't even appear to be all that well optimized or supported.

 

[Eteric Rice]

I wonder if Nintendo themselves could mod unreal 4 to run on the Wii U, and give it out to devs who have a UE4 license?

 

[JordanN]

Honestly I agree with this. In some ways Nintendo kinda called it right with the Wii -- one of the reasons they went with a low-spec machine was to try to halt the increase in development costs.

That actually seems pointless as you would need to force the whole industry into following.

Development costs going up seems to be inevitable as long as you have people who want better graphics (and a company ready to exploit that).

It's better to support other venues that allow for low budget games to exist (i.e XBLA/PSN). Or even better. Turn the platform into a PC one where all sorts of games can exist.

 

[Donnie]

if you down port UE4 to Wii u levels you probably just end up with UE3 functionality anyway. so whats the point? It isn't like UE4 is completely different from UE3. They both probably share the exact same base level apis.

You should send Epic an email about this, they've wasted millions designing a multi-platform engine that goes right from high end PC's to mobile phones when really they could have just used UE3 on anything lower end than a gaming PC. If only they'd realised that the only thing a new engine actually achieves is allowing you to use more of teh power..

 

[AniHawk]

Aliens: Colonial Marines and Injustice: Gods Among Us coming out any day now!

this truly is the worst nintendo console.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

this truly is the worst nintendo console.

But hey!

Pikmin!

 

[Alebrije]

this truly is the worst nintendo console.

To early to say that.

 

[pixlexic]

You should send Epic an email about this, they've wasted millions designing a multi-platform engine that goes right from high end PC's to mobile phones when really they could have just used UE3 on anything lower end than a gaming PC. If only they'd realised that the only thing a new engine actually achieves is allowing you to use more of teh power..

UE4 push new tech found in the newer hardware and graphic apis. It has new libraries yes. but its big claim to fame is its new workflow and tool sets and at its base level it has the exact same functions as the UE3.

 

[PaulExcellent]

this truly is the worst nintendo console.

HEY.
Hey.

Maybe.

 

[MisterHero]

But hey!

Pikmin!

Remember GAF.

You begged for Pikmin. ;p

 

[ViewtifulJC]

But hey!

Pikmin!

Coming to a

Spoiler

re

launch window near you!

 

[Drago]

But hey!

Pikmin!

Pretty much

I'm starting to regret my WiiU purchase but as long as I get Pikmin, Smash Bros, and Earthbound VC then I guess I can't complain. Only paid $200 anyways :/

 

[SturokBGD]

Why are you defending him?

Because for every one of me, there's apparently a hundred thousand people making this into something it's not.

The no UE4/Frostbyte 3 thing was decided the very moment Nintendo said "OK, we'll go with these shitty specs", and the so-called gaming press should be offering us something a little more intelligent than the presumption that things could possibly be any different now. I have a hundred reasons the Wii U is so far (and by far) the most disappointing piece of Nintendo hardware I've ever owned but Mark Rein laughing at someone asking a silly question isn't one of them. Even if he didn't slip up with his response, it's still a silly question.

 

[Aquamarine]

this truly is the worst nintendo console.

Someone's forgetting about the Virtual Boy.

 

[Jinfash]

Lmao. So much sad, pathetic ignorance. Why don't you ask fellow GAFer Element if his game is overblown, overbudgeted and needs 3-4 million copies sold to break even. And while you are at it go look at a list of UE3 games. I get the feeling you are one of those guys that thing all UE games feature buff roided out bros. Educate yourself.

[Retweeted]

 

[AzaK]

Your point makes no sense.

They want the unique experience but they also want to be able to play the top third party games from other systems.

What we, or I would think anyone, would want are three systems are exactly the same essentially in terms of what they offer. Ideally I would want a system that offered the most of everything. Best Nintendo first party games plus the very best of the 3rd party offerings. Unfortunately Nintendo doomed themselves by thinking the Wii strategy can simply be replicated.

What I find most surprising are the comments they made leading up to the Wii U.

That they learned from the long periods/droughts between big releases from the Wii and even the poor launch of the 3DS. Yet here we are with no games since launch and no work on Pikmin 3.

They also talked over and over about partnerships with 3rd parties and especially EA. Yet here we are and no one is committing to it outside of some multiplatform ports.

WHAT HAPPENED? Were they just flat out lying? Why? Why lie so far out from the actual release of the system? I mean some of these comments were from early 2011. What purpose did they serve? Surely they didn't affect the early adopters of Nintendo loyalists. And they sure as hell didn't win over any new audience. So either they just flat out lied to get some good will or something seriously went wrong between them and some of the major third parties out there.

Basically the thing that pisses me off with Wii U is the bullshit Nintendo fed me wrt the points you mentioned. The last few launches from them have seen them say they learnt from the previous launch only to fuck it up again.

 

[Tobor]

No it's not. Because the tools and workflow are worse, and that's what developers actually care about the most. Also, UE3 was designed with very different and older hardware in mind, and the Wii U version doesn't even appear to be all that well optimized or supported.

The point remains. Epic has a product available for Wii U.

 

[wsippel]

Because for every one of me, there's apparently a hundred thousand people making this into something it's not.

The no UE4/Frostbyte 3 thing was decided the very moment Nintendo said "OK, we'll go with these shitty specs", and the so-called gaming press should be offering us something a little more intelligent than the presumption that things could possibly be any different now. I have a hundred reasons the Wii U is so far (and by far) the most disappointing piece of Nintendo hardware I've ever owned but Mark Rein laughing at someone asking a silly question isn't one of them. Even if he didn't slip up with his response, it's still a silly question.

Frostbite 3 and UE4 both run on much weaker hardware (unless Epic dropped their plans to have UE4 on smartphones and tablets in the near future). This isn't about specs in any way, shape or form. Doing a proper port of an engine costs a lot of money and manpower, and if there's no demand for that engine on a given platform (and neither EA nor Epic's licensees plan to release games using either engine on Wii U), there's no port. That's really all there is to it.

 

[Mr_Antimatter]

Someone's forgetting about the Virtual Boy.

As someone who owns one, I actually find myself wanting some of the 'better' VB games remade for the 3ds. Wariorland, mario clash, and a few others would be nice to see in a format that is closer to what was originally imagined for the console.

 

[AniHawk]

Someone's forgetting about the Virtual Boy.

the virtual boy never had to worry about possibly getting aliens: colonial marines.

 

[SturokBGD]

Frostbite 3 and UE4 both run on much weaker hardware (unless Epic dropped their plans to have UE4 on smartphones and tablets in the near future). This isn't about specs in any way, shape or form. Doing a proper port of an engine costs a lot of money and manpower, and if there's no demand for that engine on a given platform (and neither EA nor Epic's licensees plan to release games using either engine on Wii U), there's no port. That's really all there is to it.

I'm aware that this doesn't really disprove your point, but the smartphone/tablet thing is somewhat different... there's an element of future proofing there that makes high tech engine development important on those platforms because that hardware is being refreshed so quickly. You could have said the same thing about UE3 on iOS but not on the Wii but the smartphone I have in my pocket now is generations ahead of the one I first tried the Citadel demo out on. The Wii U hardware isn't ever going to change and Nintendo won't have anything better for years from now. That's why Epic offer UE3 for it. There's no agenda here. UE3 can already be used to make software that's light years ahead of anything that's possible on my Wii U anyway (see: the PC version of BioShock Infinite).

 

[Blood Diamonds]

the virtual boy never had to worry about possibly getting aliens: colonial marines.

fucking lol

 

[wsippel]

The point remains. Epic has a product available for Wii U.

What point? Epic has a product available, but that product isn't "fine for Wii U".

 

[Thunder Monkey]

the virtual boy never had to worry about possibly getting aliens: colonial marines.

Good show.

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

As someone who has been a Nintendo fan since the NES, I think Nintendo has pinned themselves into a corner. Instead of just sticking with the Wiimote, they gone an created a console that doesn't give much incentive to support with next gen ports. They should of went for power, and refinement of Wiimote tech.

 

[BD1]

As someone who owns one, I actually find myself wanting some of the 'better' VB games remade for the 3ds. Wariorland, mario clash, and a few others would be nice to see in a format that is closer to what was originally imagined for the console.

I want Mario Clash U, where the two planes aren't 3D, but exist on the GamePad and TV Screen.

 

[Freezie KO]

As someone who owns one, I actually find myself wanting some of the 'better' VB games remade for the 3ds. Wariorland, mario clash, and a few others would be nice to see in a format that is closer to what was originally imagined for the console.

Buy Mutant Mudds for 3DS. It plays like Wario Land VB (crossed with MegaMan).

 

[Thunder Monkey]

As someone who has been a Nintendo fan since the NES, I think Nintendo has pinned themselves into a corner. Instead of just sticking with the Wiimote, they gone an created a console that doesn't give much incentive to support with next gen ports. They should of went for power, and refinement of Wiimote tech.

In retrospect I think the safest thing Nintendo could have done was "New Wii! Use your old Wiimotes for new games!" That NSMB New star over Wii, make it known that your old controllers work and it plays advanced games.

Have a Wii Sports alike title ready for launch. And stick to the Wii pricing.

No Upad which inflated the price of the console. Interesting idea it may have been. I don't think the system would be all that more powerful. If at all changed from what was released. I also don't think that matters.

At the very least they could have said "Price of a PS3, new era of gaming!" or something asinine like that.

Honestly I'm just ranting at this point.

 

[shinobi602]

“I just laugh at the question…Unreal Engine 4, we’re not PlayStation 3, Xbox 360, or Wii U. It’s next-gen technology. That’s what we’re aiming for.”

Ice fucking cold, goddamn.

 

[NBtoaster]

Ice fucking cold, goddamn.

Reinforces that it's a power issue.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Honestly I'm just ranting at this point.

It's ok, Thunder Monkey

Wii still love U

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

In retrospect I think the safest thing Nintendo could have done was "New Wii! Use your old Wiimotes for new games!" That NSMB New star over Wii, make it known that your old controllers work and it plays advanced games.

Have a Wii Sports alike title ready for launch. And stick to the Wii pricing.

No Upad which inflated the price of the console. Interesting idea it may have been. I don't think the system would be all that more powerful. If at all changed from what was released. I also don't think that matters.

At the very least they could have said "Price of a PS3, new era of gaming!" or something asinine like that.

Honestly I'm just ranting at this point.

As a hardware manufacturer, you definitely want those third party game sales. Gamers would be less likely to see the console as a Nintendo only console. They wouldn't feel the need to own more than one console.

 

[Aquamarine]

As a hardware manufacturer, you definitely want those third party game sales. Gamers would be less likely to see the console as a Nintendo only console. They wouldn't feel the need to own more than one console.

It's more than that. Nintendo can make a significant amount of money on game royalties.

More third party games = More royalties = More manufacturing for NCL = More exposure for the console = Free advertising + Free income = Better bottom-line

There's a reason why Nintendo has stuck to the video game console industry all these years...it can be very profitable.

 

[ASIS]

Man, it is really depressing. But they deserve it. I don't know how on earth would the game pad be enough to compensate for ... Well this situation.

Such a disappointment.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

As someone who has been a Nintendo fan since the NES, I think Nintendo has pinned themselves into a corner. Instead of just sticking with the Wiimote, they gone an created a console that doesn't give much incentive to support with next gen ports. They should of went for power, and refinement of Wiimote tech.

I agree. Seemed to be the obvious route.

 

[PhoenixDark]

The WiiU is basically the Wii without casual gamers. It has no userbase outside of the group of people who exclusively buy every iteration of Nintendo games. I think Nintendo feels they can weather this current storm, but reality will set in when WiiUFit bombs. That fad, market...whatever you want to call it, has moved on and is now buying 99 cent games on their smart phones while reading Kindle books.

A price cut and new Mario Kart will breath some life into this thing eventually, perhaps come November. But overall I think it's safe to say the WiiU is finished.

 

[MisterHero]

Man, it is really depressing. But they deserve it. I don't know how on earth would the game pad be enough to compensate for ... Well this situation.

Such a disappointment.

If they treat them as a wide variety of inputs for developers to choose from, a developer will do fine.

But no, modern gamers seem to think that Street Fighter 2 must've had light guns, a dance mat, a steering wheel, a flight stick and boxing gloves. Because all arcade games supported every interface invented for arcade cabinets.

 

[njean777]

Nintendo games do seem to sell along with hardware. When that hardware does well the games do well, but there has to be a catalyst spurring that growth. Wii Sports/Fit were that for the Wii.

NintendoLand is not that for WiiU.

edit: So I don't expect the same performance out of Mario and Zelda this generation that we saw in the last.

The gamecube also sold little compared to the Wii and was still profitable for nintendo. I see the same happening for this gen as well. Sure third parties have abandoned nintendo, but Mario will sell consoles, Zelda will, Metroid may depending on who develops it, Smash Bros will. You cannot bet against those franchises and everybody that has, has been wrong to do so. People were calling singing the swan song for the 3ds just like they are for the Wii U, but guess what? Nintendo turned it around. Do I see the same results for the wii U? no actually I dont, but it most likely will sell alright when nintendo gets some games to the damn thing.

This coming from a bitter Wii U early adopter. I am actually angry that I have this thing and really do not play it at all. MH3 finally came out and I am now playing it. But that is one game since the launch titles that has even got my attention.