CoffeeJanitor
Member
All of the arguments are the same, no doubt
Kotaku: The Wii U Won't Be Getting Unreal Engine 4
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I´m fine with Crysis/Crytek diappearing from the console sector, they added nothing of value.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
So the Wii U doesnt have 4x the amount of ram on the PS3,360?
The thing I find funny is that people always like to treat "creative and fun gaming ideas" as a given when it comes to Nintendo. Like it's all the churn out. Nope.
Outside of the spark they hit early last gen with the Wii, Nintendo's output has been just a creatively bland and devoid of big ideas as most other major publishers. Actually, I'd say more so, since other publishers at least make up for it with increased output of both AAA and mid-tier titles. Whereas with the Wii it took Nintendo damn near 5 years to finally put out the Zelda game that would use the wiimote to the fullest extent.
And now they're trying to sell their new console with a mini-game collection and a "New" Super Mario Bros. game.
The Wii U is in the problem that it's in because it's lacking the support of powerful hardware AND the creative, fun games that show off its premise.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
More like marginally more powerful. Most people won't see the differences between current gen games and Wii U games.
Wii U uses 1GB RAM for games, that's 2x more, not 4x.
EatinOlives
Member
I don't think you understand why these games bombed. It's got nothing to do with your fabricated reasons.
Jacksonlee
Member
you mean WII U games, right?
H_Prestige
Banned
Only twice as much usable RAM. And much lower bandwidth. And a weak CPU. It's GPU is probably more capable than the 360, but not enough to produce obvious advantages on screen.
And since when does RAM make up for processing limitations? Does the ps4 smoke a gaming PC because it has 8GB GDDR5?
The relevant RAM is 2x at half the speed.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Yes, Nintendo awful marketing is also affecting my brain.
mentalfloss
Banned
Except that their whole premise of existence is to be the pioneers of graphics development - which is what these next gen consoles are also about.
Heck, even Kotick is saying he's worried about costs, and that it will take a long time for next gen consoles to complete the transition, financially.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
Crysis 2 also underperformed. The series has never been a big seller.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Well its quite likely that the OS footprint will decrease in the end increasing the available ram.
Only on PC. And i couldn´t care less about that.
H_Prestige
Banned
So what if it does? Would ps4 produce even better graphics if it had 16GB GDDR5 instead?
Exactly.
Why aren't indies flocking to Wii U? Recent Vita news has made the talk of the Wii U and indies sound silly. And that's the Vita..
See I could have sworn there was some article, back when I was in high school. that was released that showed the three platforms and the profitability over their tenure [at the time] and Gamecube was ahead of all three. This was back when I used to have to type in forums.gaming-age.com though so its been a while. But I swear it had a lot of people in a frenzy.
Or maybe I'm just wishing that was the case lol
mentalfloss
Banned
Well you should care about fewer third party games with less risks because all indications from what we've seen so far are pointing to that outcome.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
What indications? We've seen a plethora of new AAA IPs announced and rumored for next-gen.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
You said that the Wii U isn't more powerful at all. having 2-3x the ram is an area where the Wii U is more powerful. Ofcourse it's offset with being weaker in the other areas. My point still stands.
well...
H_Prestige
Banned
Which means overall it's on par. A fact evidenced by all the ports released so far and the quality of exclusives not being beyond ps3/360's capabilities.
You can't look at just a single component. You have to look at the whole thing and how it all comes together. The CELL has far more processing grunt inside it than either the 360 or Wii U CPU. Does that mean the ps3 is a more powerful system?
And what other areas is it more powerful in? You said many ways.
You also have to remember the Wii U RAM has half the bandwidth of the ps3 and 360 RAM. Just like with ps4 and 720, 8GB ddr3 isn't the same as 8GB gddr5.
This is a great post, but you can't just look at an exclusive in a vacuum. Sony prides itself on their exclusives as well. The only difference is, they have other games on their systems to compare the exclusives to. When buying a new game for a new system, people are gonna ask, "What makes this game so good when there are other games I can get for every console?" That's what makes a console and its exclusive games stand out: it's multiplatform competition. People will look the exclusive, compare it to the multiplatform offerings say "I'm gonna this buy console to play this game, because it's an experience I can only get on that console."
In the case of the WiiU, it's hard to sell any exclusive titles because currently are THE ONLY TITLES for the system. And when you only have 4 games for a console, and two of them are just subpar multiplatform ports, you're gonna say "I'm good", and save yourself $350.
As far as the rest of your post... It's a copycat industry. As consumers, it's up to us to show which games we support, and who we give our money to. And right now, most gamers support prettier graphics, shoot em up, bald space marines, etc. If you want to see more risks taken, we have to support those games that take those risks, but we don't. There's a reason why Mirror's Edge doesn't have a sequel yet...
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Overall yes but in individual areas it is more powerful I.E. 2-3x ram.
airmangataosenai
Member
Yeah, this was interesting. Logically you'd think we would've heard of at least SOME announcements at GDC from the indie scene, but nothing really came. Sony has PSN cross-play to leverage Vita download support, Nintendo should embrace something similar with the 3DS for the Wii U.`
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Nintendo isn't even able to get Miiverse on the 3DS yet. They're still taking their sweet ass slow time adding more games to the virtual network. They aren't even adding GBA games. They don't have have a true account system yet. No way will Nintendo embrace the type of cross-buy/cross-play that Sony has, at least not anytime soon and that will hurt them as well.
Well technically it's about 2.5 if you take into account ps3 and 360s os ram allotment. Plus they might end up increasing the amount allowed for games.
AZ Greg
Member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Im_U_PFboYI#t=54s
Speaking of more of the same...
How do shoddy launch ports and launch exclusives not designed to show off fancy visuals (due to that not being their only selling point) prove anything to that effect? And are you conveniently ignoring Most Wanted and Deus Ex?
...
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Yes, yes he is. Most Wanted had affects that were missing from the PS3/360.
Dave Meltzer
Banned
There's the potential to get better graphics from Wii U than there is from 360 and PS3. But this potential is nowhere near great enough for it to be seen as a meaningful graphical leap. It's better, but not much better, and due to some poor design decisions there's also the potential for it to look worse.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
I agree with that. The comment that I and a couple others were responding to argued that the Wii U is either WEAKER overall or not more powerful in any area.
DeviousAngel
Member
I am a Nintendo fan, have been so since I was six, and I do have some bias. You can argue about the creative value of games like NintendoLand all you want but it will get us nowhere. It is clear we have different priorities, and we won't change each other's minds.
However, right now at this very moment, if hardware was the main concern at the very least we would be seeing more PS360 ports from 3rd part devs, no? After all, WiiU is at least on par with current gen technology, or so gaf says. Instead they all keep talking about "risk." It seems obvious that the AAA scene is not a forgiving business and that it helps to play it safe. Same with UE4. Is it the tech, or is it the risk involved in optimizing the engine for WiiU?
What does this aversion to risk-taking mean for games in the future? I believe it will take a while for the industry to get out of this rut, and personally I think consoles relying on graphical improvement are only perpetuating it all. The WiiU may not be the way to go about it either, and god knows Microsoft still have a lot hidden up their sleeve, but lets not act like we can point fingers at an individual when it seems to be everyone's problem.
pawelranger
Banned
Funny that you avoid mentioning that the total sales are pretty similar, also 2006 is not equal to 2013, the world is constantly changing, the game industry today is nothing like six-seven years ago, PS4 and the nextbox are going to struggle in first months (you'll see), is not easy anymore to hype the masses about a new product, mostly today people get excited when an existing product turns to be appealable for them, like happen with the Xbox360 and the 3DS (in Japan).
Also first month sales are not good reference to predict the future of a console, the GC for example was a good starter.
We're not the masses, for the masses a PC game looks exactly the same as a Xbox360 or PS3 game. Also "developers erupting into laughter about it" is not Nintendo fault, there is no reason to laugh about it even if the console is totally sh*t.
Is not like Nintendo is completely ruined with the Wii U, they still have chance to recover, the main problem right now is the lack of software. Third party support is important but the console can sell with or without it, is not like there was a lot of third party support in the DS and Wii.
JordanN
Banned
That's the way I see it and was even arguing that for the past view pages.
Someone even called me a "graphics whore" for it but my avatar doesn't even represent cutting edge visuals (and I really do like the style). XD
I despise the idea no one is allowed to enjoy better graphics anymore. I've been enjoying graphics for over 10 years and still do. It has brought me alot of joy.
I'm not sacrificing my happiness so a corporation half away around the world who probably views me as an insect can earn millions and give me nothing back in return.
PhoenixDark
Banned
But it's already been explained the ram is basically twice as much yet half the speed...
Ultimately it's an Xbox 362 or so. It will get current gen ports while developers move to the next gen consoles. If Nintendo wanted to release a transitional console, they should have done it 2-3 years ago. Now they're stuck with a gimped system developers don't care about.
And all this indie talk is spin. I remember Nintendo fans praising The Lord that the WiiU was "powerful" and would get next gen ports; I don't remember much indie talk at all. Indies are doing fine with PC/smartphone titles, and will do fine with the PS4 too. I don't see any evidence that they're excited about another Nintendo console supported by fans who only buy Nintendo games.
So this is where we're at in the discussion? Okay.
Just for the sake of putting this in here, I'll say that I do in fact consider the Wii to be current gen.
I consider it current gen because the system incorporates what I consider to be the defining aspects of current gen console gaming -- an actual operating system with support for all-digital services and software. I really think those features have been more important this generation than the improvement in graphics.
In that respect, who's to say what the defining features or advancement of next gen are going to be. All the machines aren't out yet.
Just for the sake of putting this in here, I'll say that I do in fact consider the Wii to be current gen.
I consider it current gen because the system incorporates what I consider to be the defining aspects of current gen console gaming -- an actual operating system with support for all-digital services and software. I really think those features have been more important this generation than the improvement in graphics.
In that respect, who's to say what the defining features or advancement of next gen are going to be. All the machines aren't out yet.
airmangataosenai
Member
At the same time, do you really think we'll ever see a Wii U game that looks as good as the best from current gen consoles? I seriously doubt Nintendo will ever put out a game for it on par with what Sony has lined up for PS3 this year.
Zombie James
Banned
They have the opportunity to with Zelda, imho. With the fantasy setting it has, it would be nice if they did something as epic and visually spectacular as, say, God of War.
Well... it's not like we had to wait around a year to see indies hugely investing in Vita... And Vita has a big advantage against WiiU : PS3.
These kind of things still takes time, especially with indies.
Zelda, Metroid or next Retro game, maybe next Monolith, even next 3D Mario... there's room for good-looking games from Nintendo. When you see how they squeezed DS with Metroid Prime Hunters or Wii with Mario Galaxy/Xenoblade/Smash Bros, we can be confident they can spit something hot on technical standpoint.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Spoiler: they won't. That's not who Nintendo is. I can't imagine Nintendo releasing anything that looks better than the best current gen titles graphics wise. Maybe Retro will.
AZ Greg
Member
That is because there are other factors that came into play, like shortages. Using the respective platforms first January and February is a much better way to compare demand considering we're past things like shortages and the holidays.
Please give me some reasoning behind your prediction. And I hope it amounts to more than "The 3DS, Vita, and WiiU have all struggled!" The handhelds are competing for mind share in a market with smartphones and tablets. And the WiiU is, well, the WiiU.
What?! Here are the NPD numbers for the Gamecube's first January and February:
January 2002 - 61,685
February 2002 - 78,413
Not exactly blazing out of the gate either...
The N64 and Gamecube had sparse third-party support and they sold poorly compared to the market leader of the time. Those are much better comparisons than the DS, a handheld, which have always sold well for Nintendo, and the Wii, a system that caught lightning in a bottle and briefly captured a market that has moved on.
FieryBalrog
Member
UE4, Frostbite... who needs 'em.
You have to sacrifice quite a bit of gameplay to get there, I imagine.
You have to sacrifice quite a bit of gameplay to get there, I imagine.
Dave Meltzer
Banned
Your definition of what current gen is has little to do with a discussion about Unreal Engine 4.
That's not how things work though.
You're not losing a quantifiable amount of happiness by playing a game with older graphics. It's what you make of it.
On the other hand, you can like new graphics as much as you want to. I'm guessing that other guy called you a graphics whore because you were insistent on the idea that no one should ever want to play a game with older graphics, for any reason.
I don't know how you turned that around into the idea that no one is allowed to enjoy newer graphics.
Bel_Air_Jeff
Banned
there's definitely some discrimination against nintendo in the video game industry these days...
it's a shame that developers disrespect the company that CREATED the industry.
it's a shame that developers disrespect the company that CREATED the industry.
Yeah, no one seems to give a shit about Atari, it's sad.
Bel_Air_Jeff
Banned
atari is a totally different story.
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