Missiles are supposed to be used when you have established a game and then can fill holes in your zoning or to contain opponents super jumping around. Ain't nobody going to snipe Doom if they are blocking Soul Fists or Disruptors or eating some block strings. Some characters can't snipe Doom anyway especially if they are jumping around.
Final Round 16: The Mustache Curls Back | Fighting Game Tournament | Mar 29-31
- Thread starter A Pretty Panda
- Start date
The scary thing about the design of the move (to me, anyway) is that it was almost certainly added into the game as a move specifically to be an assist, as it's not a move that you can really use with Doom in most situations.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Calm down.
crimsonspider89
Banned
Yeah you know it isn't like Sent drones has horizontal coverage making it harder to snipe. AzureJ is correct. The way to fix HM is to make it easier to dodge and less lockdown. None of the make it useless.
I for one like seeing zoning and not just Logan going herp derp.
I for one like seeing zoning and not just Logan going herp derp.
There ARE moves in the game that are there just for assists. Sentinel Drones, Frank Shopping Cart, Morrigan Dark Harmonizer. There isn't anything wrong with that because this way we get better assists from characters who may not have moves by default that would make great assists.
Professor Beef
Banned
So do I. I also like seeing smart assist calls/protection of assists rather than "I can keep calling this assist with no repercussions."
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Yeah Dark Harmonizer is pretty dumb.
Professor Beef
Banned
In comes Karst!
I like seeing zoning too but I like seeing it when it's two players actually zoning not one character filling up the screen and the other person blocks/stalls for 20/30 seconds. FChamp vs ChrisG at FR was a joke of a match, FChamp blocked for 70 seconds just to build enough meter from blocked attacks to fuel a hail mary DP comeback. These are two of the best players in the world and one of them essentially wasn't playing a game for 75% of the game time.
And like Professor Beef mentioned, there is no skill or thought put into mashing Hidden Missiles even during defensive states like during a reset situation. It's a dumb easy mode assist that gives you a ridiculous amount of control in the neutral and auto fills in gaps/holes/flaws in your game plan.
You know what, I think I jumped too soon with that post and put my foot in my mouth. I see where you're coming from now, but I'm still kinda left wondering how missiles should be re-worked.
I like my idea because it keeps the main problems in check vs. scrubs, but then when you get up the ladder closer to Chris G levels, I dunno how it'd fare.
Dieminion doesnt use Doom
the problem is morrigan buidling meter during illusion thats it nerf that and shes fair
That or she needs a little more recovery after the unfly.
DR2K
Banned
There's an opening in Diemenion's team, Morridoom when player correctly is untouchable.
Every high level player needs to get Morridoom on their team if 1st place is their goal.
Professor Beef
Banned
Dieminion also doesn't regularly place as well as ChrisG, or even JRosa.
And she's a lot worse because of it.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Just give up and play Injustice. That's what I'm doing!
What's the Injustice equivalent of a Minion?
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Indignant Injustice Idiot
Dieminion' Joe is a much bigger threat than his Morrigan. He takes out 1.5-2 characters with his Joe while building a ton of meter and his Morrigan is on clean up duty. No way will her solo Morrigan ever survive the opening game unassisted.
Like stated numerous times already, Morrigan's winnings in tournaments are all on the shoulders of one player. You can't even say Morrigan is a rare character now, she is popping up here and there but the success isn't there from other people. Until some other player wins with the combination it's a bit of an anomaly and it's hard to distinguish between strength of duo and strength of player. It's a combination of both but we won't really find out until one of the other gods picks up MorriDoom.
JRosa' best performance was at the previous CM where he got 3rd place. In majors he is not a top player yet. Dieminion has consistently placed higher than him.
Like stated numerous times already, Morrigan's winnings in tournaments are all on the shoulders of one player. You can't even say Morrigan is a rare character now, she is popping up here and there but the success isn't there from other people. Until some other player wins with the combination it's a bit of an anomaly and it's hard to distinguish between strength of duo and strength of player. It's a combination of both but we won't really find out until one of the other gods picks up MorriDoom.
JRosa' best performance was at the previous CM where he got 3rd place. In majors he is not a top player yet. Dieminion has consistently placed higher than him.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Just get rid of Viewtiful Joe. So dumb looking.
He doesn't place as well as Chris G at tournaments with a lot of competition, but then again nobody else really does so it's a crap comparison.
Both Die and JRosa usually place very well thoug, JRosa less so recently.
Obviously Die wont place as well as Chris G, die isnt in Chriss level. But Dieminion places way better than jrosa
ChrisG's Morrigan "zoning" doesn't look as impressive to me as, say, watching FChamp's Dhalsim in SF4 or Dieminion's Guile.
But maybe that's just cause I don't play or watch Marvel that much.
I thought I liked you Panda.
Your idea of the "correct" way to nerf missiles is terrible.
Please read what Prof. Beef had to say:
Hidden missiles is too good regardless of it's use with morrigan or not. People should have to protect an assist that good, not just be able to blindly call it out and have it interput combos, pressure, ect.
It also doesn't help that Doom is hands down one of the best characters in the game, between plain stupid foot dive shenanigans, cross ups, relatively easy TAC infinities, and brokenly easy corner combos for the damage they do, he doesn't ALSO need the best assist in the game.
like I said, make hidden missiles disappear when Doom is hit. I'd even consider taking away a rep or two from him during footdive combos, it's stupid how many times he can pick people back up.
I always laugh when people complain about Morrigan considering there really is only 1, ChrisG. Yet, Doom is on nearly everyones team and...nothing, Morrigan still considered the problem.
anyway, ya, Morrigan is fine. learn to beat ChrisG and get around Doom. I don't think people should be wasting X factor on Morrigan either, they should be snapping Doom in. She losses A LOT of her bite without Doom/
He doesn't play Capcom characters although he actually does have a training mode Morrigan.
Ragingnight
Member
die best character is definitely joe. Joe is the biggest threat on that team. Morrigan is just icing afterward.
I wouldn't be surprised if he picks her up after Flocker's performance with her (he was actually winning the Morrigan mirror, imo.)
He was doing the same but having Zero first to build meter with Harmonizer and chip Morrigan a bit with Sogenmu allowed him to gain an upper hand in the mirror match. Flocker certainly did better with the mirror than with his own team which is pretty telling.
crimsonspider89
Banned
Again, DRONES has horizontal coverage. HM does not. You can not use the same argument for them.
So when drones is called, it can protect itself where HM cannot.
The assists are nothing alike.
The comparison isn't thought out at all.
Nerfing HM would be bad for the entire game since it would mutilate a lot of characters and teams without nerfing the other assists.
So when drones is called, it can protect itself where HM cannot.
The assists are nothing alike.
The comparison isn't thought out at all.
Nerfing HM would be bad for the entire game since it would mutilate a lot of characters and teams without nerfing the other assists.
Professor Beef
Banned
Yeah, god forbid that I should have to protect my own assist.
CrimsonSpider is a scrubby Hidden Missile user confirmed.
And Drones does not protect itself. It takes a while for the first Drone to appear and you can easily be 2 for 1'd in that time. Most characters can crouch underneath it anyway, alot of characters can't avoid missiles especially in mid air due to lack of mobility.
Who would actually be "mutilated" if HM is nerfed? Dormammu? Quite a few players perform with him without using Missiles and he's a solid character without it. Morrigan? See Dieminion. Magneto? Still destroys teams without that assist. Sparda bros? Unoptimized to play those duo with missiles. Zero and Viper? They like Jam Session better. MODOK? Is very good with a lot of assists. Spencer? Oh noes he won't be able to do 150% damage now.
No one gets mutilated by removing/nerfing missiles but quite a few good characters become retarded with it.
And Drones does not protect itself. It takes a while for the first Drone to appear and you can easily be 2 for 1'd in that time. Most characters can crouch underneath it anyway, alot of characters can't avoid missiles especially in mid air due to lack of mobility.
Who would actually be "mutilated" if HM is nerfed? Dormammu? Quite a few players perform with him without using Missiles and he's a solid character without it. Morrigan? See Dieminion. Magneto? Still destroys teams without that assist. Sparda bros? Unoptimized to play those duo with missiles. Zero and Viper? They like Jam Session better. MODOK? Is very good with a lot of assists. Spencer? Oh noes he won't be able to do 150% damage now.
No one gets mutilated by removing/nerfing missiles but quite a few good characters become retarded with it.
Drones isn't anywhere near as bad as Hidden Missiles. Drones disappear when hitting the assist. HM doesn't just cover horizontally since they follow the target AND it has OTG properties. You can punish Drones a lot easier and Sentinel is out there forever, plus the start up is way slower than missiles. And let's not forget Sentinel's huge ass hitbox. You'll see a lot more Sentinel 2 for 1s than Doom who is always blowing up combos.
EarlyEarly
Member
For example?
crimsonspider89
Banned
Yeah I use HM with the characters that benefit it.
Like Zero users use Jam Session. Viper users use Vajira. Forbid I use the best assist for my team.
Drones does protect itself since the drones prevent rushers from interrupting your setup.
You are correct. HM OTGs and tracks. Vajira is an AA, combo extender, mix up tool, and combo maker. Jam session sets up incomings, extends, and protects from projectiles.
HM to be nerfed would nerf Morrigan, Dorm, Spidey, Thor, and several others.
I do agree HM need to be nerfed. Just the nerfs people suggest 9 out of 10 times are stupid.
Like Zero users use Jam Session. Viper users use Vajira. Forbid I use the best assist for my team.
Drones does protect itself since the drones prevent rushers from interrupting your setup.
You are correct. HM OTGs and tracks. Vajira is an AA, combo extender, mix up tool, and combo maker. Jam session sets up incomings, extends, and protects from projectiles.
HM to be nerfed would nerf Morrigan, Dorm, Spidey, Thor, and several others.
I do agree HM need to be nerfed. Just the nerfs people suggest 9 out of 10 times are stupid.
Professor Beef
Banned
HM does all of the above.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
fak u
HAHAHAHA April Fool's joke right? Try sniping slow ass Sent drones + the other character from full screen. You're probably going to damn near kill Sentinel because he has Phoenix health and an Apache Chief hitbox. Now try sniping a full screen Doom Hidden Missiles call. 90% of the hypers that you use will get blown up by Hidden Missiles. Dante guns? Combo broken. Ryu beam? Combo broken. Iron Man beam? Combo broken.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Man I was telling people that drones were overrated in week 1 vanilla.
Although to be fair, nobody was protecting their assists correctly at that point.
Although to be fair, nobody was protecting their assists correctly at that point.
Parallax Scroll
Banned
If obama played marvel he would just spam drones
Lolololol
Spider Man and Thor aren't that great with HM. Spider Man uses it mostly for big combos and generally being a nuisance. Thor can't cover Missiles to be effective with it. Thor is way better with Bolts and Dagger Toss or even Unibeam and Drones. People play Doom with Spidey because of the free OTG combos Doom gets off of Web Throw ala Mamespider.. Strange is just a way better partner for Thor. There are other characters who use Missiles better than these two. It's like saying Spencer is great with missiles... people only use it for combos that do overkill damage. Iron Man is a better user of HM than all these characters and it's not even the best assist for him.
Hidden Missiles does all the things you mentioned with the MAJOR bonus of being the game's best combo breaker. In this game that feature is damn near game breaking because it can turn a disadvantageous position into a winning game.
The funny part is that if you give it the Drones treatment is will STILL do everything. It will still track, lock down, hit OTG twice, be great for combo extensions, combo break (provided you protected Doom), fill holes in your offense/zoning, excellent anti air at super jump height and screen filler. There is no assist in the game that has the utility of HM... Vajra and Jam Session are distant 2nd and 3rd ranked assists.
Hidden Missiles does all the things you mentioned with the MAJOR bonus of being the game's best combo breaker. In this game that feature is damn near game breaking because it can turn a disadvantageous position into a winning game.
The funny part is that if you give it the Drones treatment is will STILL do everything. It will still track, lock down, hit OTG twice, be great for combo extensions, combo break (provided you protected Doom), fill holes in your offense/zoning, excellent anti air at super jump height and screen filler. There is no assist in the game that has the utility of HM... Vajra and Jam Session are distant 2nd and 3rd ranked assists.
Amazing. :lol
1st - drones doesn't protect itself, sent gets blown up and caught in happy birthdays all the time. Do you even watch streams? He's out there fooorrreeeeevvvveeeeerrrrrrr. Good Sent players pick and choose when and where they call him as an assist. You can't call it whenever you want. This makes playing him, even as an assist take more talent and skill. They same can't be said for Doom. Get those missiles out there and go to town, they will come back down and save you when you fuck up.
2nd - Vajira is no where close to as good as Hidden Missles. No. Where. Near. It.
It tracks worse, it's only a single hit and worst of all, it's the assist (strider) himself performing the move. Strider and his assist are way over rated imo.
He's an ass character who poses as high mid/top because it *looks* like he has everything it takes to win, but he is trash and as the meta evolves more he is going to get left behind.
Don't get me wrong, I like him as a character but that's because I think he's cool and I grew up playing Strider 1 and 2. But in Marvel? Fuck, just say no to drugs.
*dies*