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[IHaveCandy]

Do you like retro gaming? If yes, of course it will affect you.

Let´s say you want to play a game from your collection 6 to 7 years later... that won`t be possible, because the certification servers stopped working.

In short: you got fucked big time by MS and the devs.

Don't be so short sighted or are you liking to rent games with an expiration date for 60 bucks?

What precedent is there that will happen. Running certification servers is cheap, especially when traffic dies down in later years. Steam is 10 years old and not a single game has lost certification. You can redownload any iTunes purchase from more than 10 years ago right now. So what makes you think old games will be shut down?

 

[RetroStu]

Let's not pretend we have access to the full maths involved here.

I think its pretty accepted that Microsoft and Soney etc make about 50% off every game sold so if a game sells like 3 million (which many do now) thats what $90million off that 1 game sold? and we have multiple games being released pretty much every week, you do the math.

 

[Bsigg12]

So if its true, online multiplayer has to go free. You have to give people a reason to connect the box to the internet so if you make Gold an entertainment and content provider like PS+, then they could make this work. Making people connect to just play games and forcing another 60 a year for online multiplayer seems like a terrible idea if you're trying to win over gamers/consumers.

 

[thebigkahuna]

If true, I wouldn't buy one for a nickel. Goodbye Xbox, hello PS4.

 

[Ding-Ding]

After spending all this money on the Xbox 360 to gain the marketshare they now have we somehow think it's plausible they are just going to drop all support for 40% of it?

Most people are saying Microsoft is shooting for the casual than it would make even less sense. Casual gamers are less likely to have a internet connection than core gamers.

I wouldn't be surprised if MS's chain of thought is that the majority of those 360's without an internet connection, is simply because the user has an ISP but see's no reason to hook it up, as casuals tend not to care about multiplayer.

So knowing them, they think an always online console may boost Gold subscriptions

 

[IHaveCandy]

I think its pretty accepted that Microsoft and Soney etc make about 50% off every game sold so if a game sells like 3 million (which many do now) thats what $90million off that 1 game sold? and we have multiple games being released pretty much every week, you do the math.

No, it's commonly thought they make ~$11 off a $60 game.

 

[KageMaru]

A connected box is worth more than a regular box. The decision is justifiable if the numbers check out. Especially if you believe requiring Internet will compel more people to connect. It absolutely is a viable strategy.

If someone doesn't have a high speed internet by now, they aren't that interested in the devices and features that are enjoyed through a high speed connection. So I doubt a video game console, that requires an internet connection, will suddenly push them to get connected.

 

[NullPointer]

What precedent is there that will happen. Running certification servers is cheap, especially when traffic dies down in later years. Steam is 10 years old and not a single game has lost certification. You can redownload any iTunes purchase from more than 10 years ago right now. So what makes you think old games will be shut down?

Original Xbox Live?

Or can you still play Halo 2 online on the original Xbox?

 

[Baconsammy]

So we have multiple sources saying "Yes, required online," others saying, "I don't know," and nobody saying, "No required online." The I-don't-knows don't mean much at all.

The guy that leaked all the info on Durango to Kotaku said the rumors about always being online are bullshit. That qualifies as a 'no' to me.

 

[pharmboy044]

I like Arthur but he seems to be wrong pretty much 100% of the time when it comes to any of the next-gen rumor mills.

Ah, I guess his sources aren't great when it comes to the PS4 but I think he knows more about the Durango.

Have your PS4 contacts mentioned anything like this for the PS4?

 

[rdrr gnr]

Except for the people who don't have Internet connection and there's a lot of them.

Yes. There are -- but again. If I had MSFT's numbers, I'd bet it would be closer than you think.

 

[3rdamention]

There are a few people on these forums who sweared this would not be the case...they basically guaranteed it.....I wonder if they are backtracking or still confident?

 

[WhiskeyKnight]

Of course. They can't blast you with ads without an internet connection.

 

[krypt0nian]

I think its pretty accepted that Microsoft and Soney etc make about 50% off every game sold so if a game sells like 3 million (which many do now) thats what $90million off that 1 game sold? and we have multiple games being released pretty much every week, you do the math.

That's why I said all the maths. Don't fool yourself that it's their only source anymore.

It's far far less simple than that. Now factor in potential ad rev, Online purchases, DLC, DLC subscriptions, LIVE, etc etc etc. Game rev is a drop in a far larger bucket, and if they have the numbers to make it work, that's the end of that.

 

[ambientmystic]

The lack of empathy displayed by a number of gaffers in this thread is really depressing.

We've really become so individualistic and self-centered that we don't give 2 shits about our fellow gamer and their situations. It's all about the self, wether I can get access to the latest and greatest shit from the companies and damned if the others can't get it, so long as I get my fix. Even If we do have the bestest ISP and internet connection in the world with 99.99999% uptime and no drops to the server side, can we at least spare a thought and understand that not everyone is as blessed or as fortunate as we are? Or how about the dangerous precedent this (if it is true) could potentially set for the future of console gaming?

The bigger picture folks. Spare a thought.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Again, I think it is purely a potential-revenue calculation.

If MS has numbers that say, for example:

connected customers: spend an average $100/year between digital purchases and Live, vs

unconnected customers spend: spend an average of $30/year

.. or somesuch... then yes. It's worth it to them.

Pure speculation on my part. I just don't find it hard to believe.

How would online only increase potential revenue? It would lower the total marketshare and in effect lower the potential revenue...

 

[DragonSworne]

What precedent is there that will happen. Running certification servers is cheap, especially when traffic dies down in later years. Steam is 10 years old and not a single game has lost certification. You can redownload any iTunes purchase from more than 10 years ago right now. So what makes you think old games will be shut down?

The arguement basically boils down to Microsoft is going to microsoft.

The biggest reason you should be worried is those other services you mentioned are one platform. When the next Xbox comes out after this new one, you can bet MS is going to be up to no good getting people to upgrade hardware.

 

[IHaveCandy]

Original Xbox Live?

Or can you still play Halo 2 online on the original Xbox?

Supposedly MS had to do that to improve 360 XBL.

 

[shinobi602]

The lack of empathy displayed by a number of gaffers in this thread is really depressing.

We've really become so individualistic and self-centered that we don't give 2 shits about our fellow gamer and their situations. It's all about the self, wether I can get access to the latest and greatest shit from the companies and damned if the others can't get it, so long as I get my fix. Even If we do have the bestest ISP and internet connection in the world with 99.99999% uptime and no drops to the server side, can we at least spare a thought and understand that not everyone is as blessed or as fortunate as we are? Or how about the dangerous precedent this (if it is true) could potentially set for the future of console gaming?

The bigger picture folks. Spare a thought.

 

[FordGTGuy]

The arguement basically boils down to Microsoft is going to microsoft.

The biggest reason you should be worried is those other services you mentioned are one platform. When the next Xbox comes out after this new one, you can bet MS is going to be up to no good getting people to upgrade hardware.

A company coming out with a new console is going to try their hardest to promote and sell it? Those bastards!

 

[DragonSworne]

Supposedly MS had to do that to improve 360 XBL.

They'll say the samething next next gen...

 

[RetroStu]

Can you imagine the consumer backlash to this if you like gaming as a little hobby or a past time, or you're a parent who's kid want the new systems but you can't game anymore as you don't have the internet, you can not carry on your hobby any longer, you have to quit gaming forever because you don't have the internet.
The reviews from the papers etc would be pretty harsh, the public backlash would be harsh as the public are being told they are not allowed to game anymore because they don't have an internet connection.
The more i think about it the more it seems obvious to me that its bullshit.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

Yes. There are -- but again. If I had MSFT's numbers, I'd bet it would be closer than you think.

They're still going to lose money. Like mentioned in this thread as well, there's plenty of people who don't have reliable Internet either. That's besides all the other issues like what happens if servers go down, bandwidth caps, etc.

I still think the "720" will do well enough but if the rumors are true, a lot of people including many Xbox 360 supporters will turn their heads towards the PS4.

 

[Oppo]

How would online only increase potential revenue? It would lower the total marketshare and in effect lower the potential revenue...

See my previous post. Basically # of total Xbox owners is not a linear function of profitability, on a per-user basis.

My theory hinges on the idea that connected customers pay so much more in a given time span than unconnected customers, that they've decided this is worth "losing" the unconnected customers, to guarantee a fully-connected userbase.

Think of what it means just in advertising revenue alone, for MS to claim "we have X million 720 users, and every single one of them will see your ad".

Then add the potential for upsell, the anti-piracy, etc.

 

[sflufan]

There are a few people on these forums who sweared this would not be the case...they basically guaranteed it.....I wonder if they are backtracking or still confident?

I am still 100% confident that this is not the case and will not relent until proven otherwise.

Yet another article with "unnamed sources" simply does not qualify as anything resembling evidence in my book.

 

[IHaveCandy]

Can you imagine the launch of an online-only Xbox? Imagine Sim City/Diablo 3, but for every single game for the system during launch week or any big occasion like Christmas

 

[BadAss2961]

I know baconsammy wants always online. He thinks it's a good thing for gamers somehow.

Planting that seed just in case MS goes through with it. lol

 

[DragonSworne]

A company coming out with a new console is going to try their hardest to promote and sell it? Those bastards!

Have fun being locked out of Halo 8 and being forced to spend hundreds of dollars to play Halo 9

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Ah, I guess his sources aren't great when it comes to the PS4 but I think he knows more about the Durango.

Have your PS4 contacts mentioned anything like this for the PS4?

No your guess is as good as mine as far as the PS4 online infrastructure will behave. Arthur has been wrong about a lot of Durango rumors though as well.

 

[Penguins&PolarBears]

Picture this:

You take your new Xbox on vacation with you to play with your friends but there's no internet connection!

I don't think I know anyone who doesn't have an Internet connection. Nor do any places I've vacationed or visited in the last 5 years lack Wi-Fi.

Even most airlines have Wi-Fi now.

You have to be visiting some pretty remote places on the globe to be avoiding Internet access. In which case your new Xbox is more likely to die from the extreme elements before it even attempts to connect to the net. Microsoft isn't building a mobile device here. This is like complaining that your cable box needs to be connected to coax to be used.

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

How would online only increase potential revenue? It would lower the total marketshare and in effect lower the potential revenue...

Unless they can leverage their guaranteed online network of players to generate more revenue than they lose from cutting the no-internet users entirely.

They must have ideas about how to capitalize on a mandatory network. Just the data gathering alone could be worth a lot to them and others. I don't think piracy is a big enough problem for them to be the sole motivator for this kind of change in infrastructure.

 

[RetroStu]

No, it's commonly thought they make ~$11 off a $60 game.

I read about 50% but even taking your number, thats still about $30million off that one game, imagine how much they make off the 500+ games released every generation?.

 

[Mesoian]

they better really sell the reveal of this thing...

I bet you that, when they do have their presser, they don't mention any of this, and it comes out on a bulleted list a few days later.

 

[IHaveCandy]

A company coming out with a new console is going to try their hardest to promote and sell it? Those bastards!

Apple may add a new exclusive new feature to their new iPhone, but they don't disable old ones to strong arm you into upgrading.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

How would online only increase potential revenue? It would lower the total marketshare and in effect lower the potential revenue...

The suggestion is that they'll purposefully lower their market-share and focus on those people spending $100 a year and ignore those who spend $30 a year.

 

[Oppo]

You have to be visiting some pretty remote places on the globe to be avoiding Internet access. In which case your new Xbox is more likely to die from the extreme elements before it even attempts to connect to the net. Microsoft isn't building a mobile device here. This is like complaining that your cable box needs to be connected to coax to be used.

That's not a good comparison.

All of our previous consoles could work offline. An expectation has been set.

The suggestion is that they'll purposefully lower their market-share and focus on those people spending $100 a year and ignore those who spend $30 a year.

In case you missed it, this is my argument on that point. I think they will do whatever they think will make them more money in total.

 

[sflufan]

Arthur has been wrong about a lot of Durango rumors though as well.

And do tell me how one can be "wrong" about rumors that have yet to be actually proven as being true.

Think about that for a second.

 

[Beer Monkey]

I don't think I know anyone who doesn't have an Internet connection. Nor do any places I've vacationed or visited in the last 5 years lack Wi-Fi.

Even most airlines have Wi-Fi now.

You have to be visiting some pretty remote places on the globe to be avoiding Internet access. In which case your new Xbox is more likely to die from the extreme elements before it even attempts to connect to the net. Microsoft isn't building a mobile device here. This is like complaining that your cable box needs to be connected to coax to be used.

Playstation Network went down for 24 days for EVERYBODY ON THE PLANET.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Microsoft and anyone supporting this bullshit trying to say its a positive deserves to be punched. Options are always better than having no options. Also there seem to be a lot of self-centered people here. At least understand why it may be such a big problem to the some people.

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

I bet you that, when they do have their presser, they don't mention any of this, and it comes out on a bulleted list a few days later.

I'll bet they will present it front and center and enumerate the ways that constant interconnectivity can fundamentally change the user experience and functions of the console.

(Which is not to say anyone will necessarily find those features to be worth the sacrifice.)

 

[RedNumberFive]

Microsoft can't blast advertisements to you if you're offline. That should tell you all you need to know about how they see core gamers.

 

[DragonSworne]

And do tell me how one can be "wrong" about rumors that have yet to be actually proven as being true.

Think about that for a second.

He says she says schoolyard rules. Welcome to our house!

 

[FStop7]

My Internet connection has been pretty reliable, but if I were to move somewhere without that benefit I'd be pretty unhappy about not being able to play any XBox 720 games reliably.

But more importantly there's the matter of my Internet connection not being the weak point, but rather Microsoft's infrastructure being weak. During Christmas of 2006 and 2007 (2nd and 3rd holiday seasons for the 360) there were all kinds of problems with Live going down due to being overloaded. And more recently there have been a lot of issues with cloud saves being unavailable.

If an always on Durango is what we end up with I'll probably stay away from it for at least a year, maybe two. I think being an early adopter is going to cause nothing but frustration.

 

[Persona86]

You work at MS?

Nah just a guess.

 

[Carlbeego]

What does a man do when his internet connection is down?

 

[fastford58]

NOPE.

3 minute time out for connection loss? F that noise.

 

[artist]

On my phone so can't really see how the usual suspects are spinning this news ..

Personally I hope it's still not true and for the 20th time I'll say that if MS announces Durango will play used games and no forced online would be MEGATONS for me.

Also this bit is surprising;

Two Kotaku sources have added more credence to the rumor that the next Xbox, expected to battle the PlayStation 4 in late 2013 or early 2014

Early 2014, so delay? Is this why the Durango reveal event got pushed back?

 

[Penguins&PolarBears]

Can you imagine the consumer backlash to this if you like gaming as a little hobby or a past time, or you're a parent who's kid want the new systems but you can't game anymore as you don't have the internet, you can not carry on your hobby any longer, you have to quit gaming forever because you don't have the internet.
The reviews from the papers etc would be pretty harsh, the public backlash would be harsh as the public are being told they are not allowed to game anymore because they don't have an internet connection.
The more i think about it the more it seems obvious to me that its bullshit.

If you don't even have Internet access in 2013 then you probably aren't realistically in the market for a $500 console with $60-$70 games.

If you're living without Internet access you have far bigger problems than worrying about buying a luxury game console. Microsoft probably has a new 360 to sell you instead.

Playstation Network went down for 24 days for EVERYBODY ON THE PLANET.

And yet after that happened PSN is now more profitable for Sony than it has ever been. If you have an incident you compensate your customers, release new games and move on. Fear of server outages is not going to keep the digital age from moving to the cloud

 

[krypt0nian]

See my previous post. Basically # of total Xbox owners is not a linear function of profitability, on a per-user basis.

My theory hinges on the idea that connected customers pay so much more in a given time span than unconnected customers, that they've decided this is worth "losing" the unconnected customers, to guarantee a fully-connected userbase.

Think of what it means just in advertising revenue alone, for MS to claim "we have X million 720 users, and every single one of them will see your ad".

Then add the potential for upsell, the anti-piracy, etc.

Exactly, not all customer are valued equally.
If they have the maths to back this up, it's a lock.

 

[RetroStu]

I hope someone releases 'Adblock' for the 720 or we are going to have more pop ups than you get on most porn sites on the web! lol.