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[Jas]

There's none.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is even if you have a connection it can still make games an unpleasant experience.

I was trying to play Diablo 3 the other night by myself and was getting some nasty lag spikes. (can't wait to have to check what my ping is for every game next gen)

My ping was around 180ms. My internet connection is pretty good 60Mbs down and 10 up. After 20 minutes of playing the lag just got so irritating that I gave up and went on to play something else.

 

[Purexed]

So your saying if I go online now I cannot do the above? I have to be forced to be always 24/7 online to do those?

I think you need to try a little harder.

You're asking the wrong question. It's not a matter of whether it's possible or not, the question should be does having an always-on machine better enhance the use cases I outlined. I'd argue yes especially it you can tap into your machine's OS from remote devices.

 

[Dibbz]

Keeping out the riff raff. Why would I ever want to play the same console as the filth who can't even sustain regular internet? They are beneath me!

When the servers on their end meltdown you could have the Internet of the Gods, it will not save you from error messages.

You're asking the wrong question. It's not a matter of whether it's possible or not, the question should be does having an always-on machine better enhance the use cases I outlined. I'd argue yes especially it you can tap into your machine's OS from remote devices.

Let me put it this way then.

PS4 is connected to the internet and you can access it via remote devices.
720 is connected to the internet and you can access it via remote devices.

One of them requires always online connection, the other doesn't. Where is the advantage?

 

[mclem]

You don't get that experience.

And as a result, you're playing a different game.

You're just arguing for multiplayer, which this topic is not about. It's about arguments for required internet connections.

I think this is the fundamental impasse we're at: I don't think it's valid to exclude the involvement of other players from this argument. The opportunity to have other players influence your game - that's a slightly broader concept than 'multiplayer' - without you necessarily instigating it directly or being a willing participant is, I feel, is a valid answer to the question.

 

[blame space]

you will always know the exact time you unlocked achievements !

 

[benny_a]

You're asking the wrong question. It's not a matter of whether it's possible or not, the question should be does having an always-on machine better enhance the use cases I outlined. I'd argue yes especially it you can tap into your machine's OS from remote devices.

The PS3 can be turned on remotely via the PSP or PSVita and the PS3 is not a required "always online" machine that refuses to play games when no Internet connection is present.

And as a result, you're playing a different game.

Which you want to remove from people by requring an online connection for the device itself. Does not sound like an advantage but rather like a disadvantage.

I think this is the fundamental impasse we're at: I don't think it's valid to exclude the involvement of other players from this argument. The opportunity to have other players influence your game - that's a slightly broader concept than 'multiplayer' - without you necessarily instigating it directly or being a willing participant is, I feel, is a valid answer to the question.

Journey does seamless multiplayer better than anything that preceded it. It runs on he PS3 which doesn't require an internet connection to operate.

You can't cite an example that was on a PS3.

 

[AkuMifune]

Hackers magically disappear?

Pro: If it gets rid of piracy and hacking I'm kinda all for it.

Con: MS will never be able to guarantee their authentication servers will NEVER go down. The first time it happens and we can't play a game because of them = bloodbath.

 

[Doffen]

you will always know the exact time you unlocked achievements !

Finally some common sense! You wouldn't want an empty date for your achievements, or worse; wrong date.

 

[SuperEpicGuy]

Piracy will be hurt

From laughter as they are enjoying their cracked games offline while paying customers have to put up with drm.

 

[mclem]

Oh, shit. And as I type that, I remember an art game, 4'33" of Uniqueness. It's not a good game, really, but it's an *interesting* one, and it absolutely requires online.

I have won it. Took many tries.

 

[Silly.Mikey]

I think this is the fundamental impasse we're at: I don't think it's valid to exclude the involvement of other players from this argument. The opportunity to have other players influence your game - that's a slightly broader concept than 'multiplayer' - without you necessarily instigating it directly or being a willing participant is, I feel, is a valid answer to the question.

Yes but i think what hes saying is, this can all be done without having your console always connected to the net. They can just save the info of other players affecting your game on servers and you retrieve it when you log in. The always being online isnt necessary for that.

Always online is never absolutely necessary, unless its for trying to prevent piracy. I cant really think of anything else tbh.

My first post i find is a great idea, but still, theres really no good reason to prevent people who choose not to connect from playing on your console.

Thats the thread: no internet, console no worky.

 

[AgentP]

I can already digitally download thousands of games right now. I do not need to be connected 24/7 to do that.

I was talking about retail discs.

 

[1-D_FTW]

You missed the biggie, OP. At least for the publishers. It's a stealth way to incorporate the end of resale. You include a single code that's tied to requiring authorization before play and bam, it becomes worthless to anyone else.

 

[mclem]

Journey does seamless multiplayer better than anything that preceded it. It runs on he PS3 which doesn't require an internet connection to operate.

You can't cite an example that was on a PS3.

Ah, I think I've just realised something. Go back to my original post. Note that the bit this whole strand stemmed from was me talking about games which require online, not hardware.

 

[Dibbz]

Oh, shit. And as I type that, I remember an art game, 4'33" of Uniqueness. It's not a good game, really, but it's an *interesting* one, and it absolutely requires online.

I have won it. Took many tries.

I have another game that requires online. Every online game in existence. You're missing the point completely.

If I'm offline of course I cannot play an online game.

 

[Toppot]

What can be done that cannot currently be done with the online/offline solution?

There are none.

Livestreaming of events, news, e3, other keynotes/talks and press conferences.

Streaming in general, films tv etc

Up to date information, games, apps, social feeds.



Online is online, there's no 'differences' as far as what you are looking for, being always online just has advantages. The problem is in making it compulsory rather than optional.

 

[Dibbz]

I was talking about retail discs.

I don't understand. You buy a disc and it is tied to your account? And what, this means no disc swapping? I'm not following.

 

[mavs]

I see people bitching about online yelling "get off my lawn!" I've been always online since 1997 and have never been inconvenienced by it.

You fall unconscious when you lose connection to the internet?

 

[mclem]

I have another game that requires online. Every online game in existence. You're missing the point completely.

If I'm offline of course I cannot play an online game.

See above. I've been presenting an argument entirely from the standpoint of games requiring online, not hardware. The OP might need a touch of clarification.

I did make a point about advantages of hardware requiring online, too, but that's a different affair and framed in business terms.

 

[grumble]

Advantages:

Important to enable a subscription model, as they can lock out non-payers.
Maximizes online community for games
Allows for subsidizing services and content via larger subscription base. (imagine paying fifteen dollars less for a new release digitally, for example)

 

[Purexed]

The PS3 can be turned on remotely via the PSP or PSVita and the PS3 is not a required "always online" machine that refuses to play games when no Internet connection is present.

It's a given that the always-on requirement should introduce new features justifying the approach, but I'm thinking more broadly than mobile game machines on the remote streaming front.

I'm taking the leap that Microsoft probably has some interesting bait on the hook. There just has to be.

EDIT - Remote play and the lag on PS3 has always been spotty for me. For me, the feature doesn't really exist because the function is unreliable.

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuABhumm6fY

 

[Dibbz]

Livestreaming of events, news, e3, other keynotes/talks and press conferences.

Streaming in general, films tv etc

Up to date information, games, apps, social feeds.



Online is online, there's no 'differences' as far as what you are looking for, being always online just has advantages. The problem is in making it compulsory rather than optional.

Where are the advatages? You're just listing stuff that can be done "online". Yes I can watch live events when I'm "online" I know that. What I'm asking is why have "always online" as in have to connect to a server 24/7 vs offline/online?

Advantages:

Important to enable a subscription model, as they can lock out non-payers. yes locking out potential customers, big advantage
Maximizes online community for games how? people that are offline now will be offline then unless they package new broadband contracts with games
Allows for subsidizing services and content via larger subscription base. (imagine paying fifteen dollars less for a new release digitally, for example)not going to happen, just means bigger profits

 

[Toppot]

Where are the advatages? You're just listing stuff that can be done "online". Yes I can watch live events when I'm "online" I know that. What I'm asking is why have "always online" as in have to connect to a server 24/7 vs offline/online?

Ok.

The advantage of being always online is that the console and everything on it are always up to date. You don't need to take the console online when you are ready and then wait for patches/new content to download and install first. For example the console can download all these things while you are asleep, allowing you to do things immediately when you are ready.

It basically saves you time.

 

[Dibbz]

Ok.

The advantage of being always online is that the console and everything on it are always up to date. You don't need to take the console online when you are ready and then wait for patches/new content to download and install first. For example the console can download all these things while you are asleep, allowing you to do things immediately when you are ready.

It basically saves you time.

PS3 already does that.

 

[Hawkian]

Oh, shit. And as I type that, I remember an art game, 4'33" of Uniqueness. It's not a good game, really, but it's an *interesting* one, and it absolutely requires online.

I have won it. Took many tries.

This is fascinating and a great John Cage reference but holy cow did you miss the entire point of this discussion. "Always online" would have the net effect of making this transparently multiplayer game more difficult to win.

Ok.

The advantage of being always online is that the console and everything on it are always up to date. You don't need to take the console online when you are ready and then wait for patches/new content to download and install first. For example the console can download all these things while you are asleep, allowing you to do things immediately when you are ready.

It basically saves you time.

This is how it works now! I lose that functionality if I unplug the ethernet cord from my PS3. I don't lose the ability to play Vanquish.

 

[mclem]

not going to happen, just means bigger profits

Tell me, if third parties get significantly bigger profits on Durango than the other systems, what would be the result?

 

[Duster]

Maybe in the future, toasts will have to be online and you will not be able to sell them to someone else.

In the future your online toaster will burn the logo of your favourite companies straight onto the bread, you wouldn't want to sell such a personalised product.

 

[tkscz]

Microsoft to push Xbox live on people who don't care too much for it/ don't want it. Oh you meant advantage for us... you got me.

 

[1-D_FTW]

Ok.

The advantage of being always online is that the console and everything on it are always up to date. You don't need to take the console online when you are ready and then wait for patches/new content to download and install first. For example the console can download all these things while you are asleep, allowing you to do things immediately when you are ready.

It basically saves you time.

Sony is doing the same thing. None of those things require you be online. Those are convenience things the ARM processor will be updating at night when you're asleep. That's completely separate from requiring you validate your game or it won't launch.

 

[mclem]

This is fascinating and a great John Cage reference but holy cow did you miss the entire point of this discussion. "Always online" would have the net effect of making this transparently multiplayer game more difficult to win.

Well, yes. Playing it offline would make it ridiculously trivial; it's no game at all at that point, nor is it an artistic statment (well, except for possibly a nihilistic one!). That was my point.

 

[dark_prinny]

It saves me money.

 

[IHaveCandy]

That nifty PS4 feature that allows you to watch other people play live.

That would certainly not be possible if everyone was not online.

So social features only I guess.

But the PS4 isn't always online-required. Not sure why you think that feature needs that.

 

[Hawkian]

Well, yes. Playing it offline would make it ridiculously trivial; it's no game at all at that point, nor is it an artistic statment (well, except for possibly a nihilistic one!). That was my point.

I completely got your point and my point is that you're missing the point.

That's a multiplayer game. There are lots more. This is irrelevant to the discussion.

Let's say the game isn't 4'33 of Uniqueness or Journey, it's Super Mario Bros. Now what's the advantage of requiring an internet connection to play it?

To further flesh out this discussion, how about Starcraft? That's both a multiplayer and a singleplayer game. Without an internet connection, you lose out on an enormous amount of functionality.... but you can still play it. See the difference?

 

[Polk]

I was talking about retail discs.

so like all steamworks games and those games that register on origin/uplay?

 

[Toppot]

PS3 already does that.

Only you pay for it with PS+, anyway:

The PS3 only searches for updates for your last 10 played games. It doesn't keep my friends list up to date, only when it is online does it update and reload my whole friends list. It doesn't check for updates for app's like Vidzone/Lovefilm/Netflix (As far as I am aware, I could be wrong) and compared to always online there is less chance the PS3 will be able to download and install everything by the time I want to use it, where as an always online console would get you things as quickly as possible, not at a time of the day you choose it to.

This is how it works now! I lose that functionality if I unplug the ethernet cord from my PS3. I don't lose the ability to play Vanquish.

Sony is doing the same thing. None of those things require you be online. Those are convenience things the ARM processor will be updating at night when you're asleep. That's completely separate from requiring you validate your game or it won't launch.

I believe the OP was asking for advantages of an always online console, not asking what new things can be done that and always online console of today wouldn't be able to do. I am not defending what Microsoft is planning to do with the nextbox, I am simply trying to show the advantages of always online, not defending that a console should require always online.

 

[Kunan]

I can't think of one good reason why it would be a benefit. Games and applications that need online already exist. What would I possibly get by having the console itself, and games that have no muliplayer components, require it? Updating, friends, etc. can all be done if my console happens to be online.

 

[Hawkian]

so like all steamworks games and those games that register on origin/uplay?

There's no precedent for this outside of PC gaming.

 

[BigDug13]

piracy is a bitch to most unknown devs / new ips and if its always on or not they will get fucked by piracy no matter what. piracy is a total bitch killing this industry more than what people believe

Piracy always finds a way. Eventually a hack to play games offline comes out. It's been proven that DRM only screws legit customers. Yet companies are still trying to screw legit customers.

It's the little things. We used to have big weekend get together a at a cabin at Big Bear and Rock Band and other games were always on the menu. That wouldn't be possible on Xbox next.

 

[mclem]

I completely got your point and my point is that you're missing the point.

That's a multiplayer game. There are lots more. This is irrelevant to the discussion.

Let's say the game isn't 4'33 of Uniqueness or Journey, it's Super Mario Bros. Now what's the advantage of requiring an internet connection to play it?

To further flesh out this discussion, how about Starcraft? That's both a multiplayer and a singleplayer game. Without an internet connection, you lose out on an enormous amount of functionality.... but you can still play it. See the difference?

All *that* section was about talking why it's valid for games (that aren't ''multiplayer games' in a traditional sense) to be always online. I've only made a couple of posts about possible advantages of hardware requiring online.

I made a mistake at the start; the OP was a little ambiguous. I was missing a point that wasn't actually stated. I was thinking more ways in which the SimCity model could be justified rather than ways the Durango model could be justified, since both are recent relevant topics.

 

[Polk]

There's no precedent for this outside of PC gaming.

So? If it's available on PC without always on it should be doable on consoles.

 

[Freshmaker]

You can annoy people with your DOA5+ achievements on Facebook more efficiently?

 

[Boss Man]

I think cloud processing was a legit one. Maybe?

All of the others are things that can be done with a system that can stay online but doesn't have to.

 

[IHaveCandy]

It would allow for developers to have greater analytical capabilities with how people play games. But they could already do that now. It would just make sure 100% of their users participate.

 

[milsorgen]

piracy is a bitch to most unknown devs / new ips and if its always on or not they will get fucked by piracy no matter what. piracy is a total bitch killing this industry more than what people believe

Runaway budgets and corporate leadership is what's killing this industry. Piracy is really nothing more than an unofficial demo system.

 

[Dibbz]

The PS3 only searches for updates for your last 10 played games. It doesn't keep my friends list up to date, only when it is online does it update and reload my whole friends list. It doesn't check for updates for app's like Vidzone/Lovefilm/Netflix (As far as I am aware, I could be wrong) and compared to always online there is less chance the PS3 will be able to download and install everything by the time I want to use it, where as an always online console would get you things as quickly as possible, not at a time of the day you choose it to.

Those are restrictions of software/hardware. Nothing to do with the online connection. If the PS3 required a constant online connection it would still have all those faults you listed.

Also Steam pushes updates straight to me, so no the instant updating point is null.

 

[dollartaco]

Not "never online."

 

[IHaveCandy]

So? If it's available on PC without always on it should be doable on consoles.

Every game that has used always-online on PC has gotten chewed out for it. Ubisoft even stopped doing it.

 

[Toppot]

Those are restrictions of software/hardware. Nothing to do with the online connection. If the PS3 required a constant online connection it would still have all those faults you listed.

Also Steam pushes updates straight to me, so no the instant updating point is null.

I said 'The advantage of being always online is that the console and everything on it are always up to date.'

You said 'PS3 already does that.'

I showed how it doesn't and then you say thats software/hardware fault. You lied, by your own admission the PS3 does not automatically keep everything up to date.

That aside, Steam instantly updates your games when your PC is offline? Steam only pushes updates if it's online.

Lets say Steam releases an update for TF2 at 10pm and my computer is off. The next day at 2 pm I want to play TF2, I turn on my PC, Steam logs in and I then have to wait for the update to download and install. If the PC was 'always on' it would download at 10pm the day before and be ready as soon as I wanted to play.

This is an advantage of an always online console.

 

[jimi_dini]

Everything will be an MMO, isn't that great?

I mean yeah that's somewhat it...

...I mean...

Look behind you, a three headed monkey