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[phisheep]

A love letter that ignores all the ills she created that still plague us today? That hardcore Conservative base with its altered perception of history is still strong I see.

The ills have been sufficiently rehearsed in this thread already, I saw no need to repeat them.

As for hardcore conservative? Not at all. I was a union member, the child and grandchild of Labour councillors, a signed-up card carrying member of a broad left party, living in the South Wales valleys, and it's not my perception of history (or at least of my history) that is altered.

 

[kitch9]

This. So much. This.

What have bankers got to do with this particular issue. If anything it proves if you give anyone too much power and leverage they will take the piss and they need dealing with.

 

[SmokyDave]

Fuck you and your one-sided revisionist bullshit. Fuck her for the evil she did and has been done in her name.

Section 28.

Right to buy.

Supporting Apartheid.

Poll tax.

Support for Pinochet and Saddam.

Once again: Fuck you. Fuck her. Glad she's dead.

Wind your neck in. This is not how adults communicate.

 

[phisheep]

while i cant get exact figures it looks like income tax was only at 83% and obviously that was just the higher rate, VAT was only at 10% (compared with 20 today) overall take take as a percentage of gdp was similar to how it is today

Just for clarification, the marginal 98% rate was on investment income, and if I recall correctly it was Mrs T who put VAT up (to 17.5%) - one of the few bits of wriggle-room she had on taxation.

 

[kitch9]

Fuck you and your one-sided revisionist bullshit. Fuck her for the evil she did and has been done in her name.

Section 28.

Right to buy.

Supporting Apartheid.

Poll tax.

Support for Pinochet and Saddam.

Once again: Fuck you. Fuck her. Glad she's dead.

Lol, chill out.

Cute.

 

[Toa TAK]

The Iron Lady can rest now. I know she doesn't have a lot of fans, but at least she had the balls to do something. I respect that.

 

[daviyoung]

well that gem was last post of that page, glad it didn't go to waste

 

[Pasco_]

Wind your neck in. This is not how adults communicate.

When presented with a wall of absolute shite, that rebuttal seemed the only reasonable response.

Section 28 alone is enough to justify anyone's enduring antipathy towards this vile excuse for a Prime Minister, I refuse to allow the evil to be whitewashed off of Thatcher's fresh corpse.

 

[kurtrussell]

Wind your neck in. This is not how adults communicate.

Seriously man, I rarely agree with you, but every time you come out with something like this, I just can't help feeling my respect increase :-\

Stop confusing me.

Also do people really believe that right to buy caused more harm than good? Surely the whole point of it was to empower the working class to become home owners? If you're expecting the working class to just live in houses they borrow from the state, that hardly seems like a win for equality.

 

[IronicallyTwisted]

When presented with a wall of absolute shite, that rebuttal seemed the only reasonable response.

Section 28 alone is enough to justify anyone's enduring antipathy towards this vile excuse for a Prime Minister, I refuse to allow the evil to be whitewashed off of Thatcher's fresh corpse.

So are the lefties going to spit on Clinton's grave because of DOMA? How about DADT? Or punitive HIV/AIDS immigrant laws? All three were worse than section 28.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

He was providing balance in a mostly negative thread. What do you want him to do, wipe your ass or something?

Wind it in. I don't mind balance, only problem is that isn't balance.

 

[frankie_baby]

Just for clarification, the marginal 98% rate was on investment income, and if I recall correctly it was Mrs T who put VAT up (to 17.5%) - one of the few bits of wriggle-room she had on taxation.

ah ok thats what it was on, the tories constant rising of VAT is disgusting though it effects the poor disproportionately but they get away with it as its an 'invisable tax' the poor are what keeps the eonomy going, they get money they spend it, taxing spending means they can buy less

 

[QuicheFontaine]

A love letter that ignores all the ills she created that still plague us today? That hardcore Conservative base with its altered perception of history is still strong I see.

Well, it's obviously retrospective but I think it should be acknowledged that this is a first hand account from someone who was (and excuse me here Phi) old enough to know what was going on at the time. This isn't just someone analysing 'history', it's someone's life experience.

EDIT: Damn it, too slow. I shouldn't have gone back to add that deferential parenthetical plea.

 

[LukeTim]

What have bankers got to do with this particular issue. If anything it proves if you give anyone too much power and leverage they will take the piss and they need dealing with.

Thatcher had a program of deregulation of the financial sector which ultimately led to the fucked up situation we find ourselves in now. With an economy based on debt, rather than money. Banks making huge losses but still paying out disgustingly large bonuses and salaries to executives who do fuck all to benefit society, all they do is load society with debt.

And we allow this debt to ruin people's lives. We allow the suffering of the poorest in society all because of this fiction. These ultimately valueless, meaningless numbers, which we are taught to give up almost our entire lives to acquire. How is it a sustainable situation when the ones who have all the money are giving it away to those who have no money, and then demanding it be paid back, plus extra?

The whole thing is completely fucked up, and hopefully it'll soon come crashing down.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Fuck you and your one-sided revisionist bullshit. Fuck her for the evil she did and has been done in her name.

Section 28.

Right to buy.

Supporting Apartheid.

Poll tax.

Support for Pinochet and Saddam.

Once again: Fuck you. Fuck her. Glad she's dead.

Come on now, there's no need for this. Let's try to keep it civil.

 

[kharma45]

Fuck you and your one-sided revisionist bullshit. Fuck her for the evil she did and has been done in her name.

Section 28.

Right to buy.

Supporting Apartheid.

Poll tax.

Support for Pinochet and Saddam.

Once again: Fuck you Fuck her. Glad she's dead.

can't beat a good mature, rational discussion.

 

[kurtrussell]

A love letter that ignores all the ills she created that still plague us today?.

The "ills" that a ruling left-wing party had over a decade to fix? Hmmm right.

 

[daviyoung]

When presented with a wall of absolute shite, that rebuttal seemed the only reasonable response.

Section 28 alone is enough to justify anyone's enduring antipathy towards this vile excuse for a Prime Minister, I refuse to allow the evil to be whitewashed off of Thatcher's fresh corpse.

you crazies are like fucking Hydra

 

[SKINNER!]

Fuck you and your one-sided revisionist bullshit. Fuck her for the evil she did and has been done in her name.

Section 28.

Right to buy.

Supporting Apartheid.

Poll tax.

Support for Pinochet and Saddam.

Once again: Fuck you. Fuck her. Glad she's dead.

There was absolutely no need for that. Calm the hell down. Phisheep's only sharing his opinion.

 

[kitch9]

When presented with a wall of absolute shite, that rebuttal seemed the only reasonable response.

Section 28 alone is enough to justify anyone's enduring antipathy towards this vile excuse for a Prime Minister, I refuse to allow the evil to be whitewashed off of Thatcher's fresh corpse.

Do you even know what section 28 was? Your bile and venom doesn't really suit what you are talking about, it's a bit weird.

 

[frankie_baby]

Seriously man, I rarely agree with you, but every time you come out with something like this, I just can't help feeling my respect increase :-\

Stop confusing me.

Also do people really believe that right to buy caused more harm than good? Surely the whole point of it was to empower the working class to become home owners? If you're expecting the working class to just live in houses they borrow from the state, that hardly seems like a win for equality.

as is pretty clear the basic concept of right to buy is pretty sound it was however the implementation the fucked the country up, every house sold should have been replaced one for one at least and discounts should have been repayable when the house was sold

 

[Enron]

Do you even know what section 28 was? Your bile and venom doesn't really suit what you are talking about, it's a bit weird.

Well, it looks like Pasco_ isn't going to be answering any of these questions soon.

 

[frankie_baby]

Do you even know what section 28 was? Your bile and venom doesn't really suit what you are talking about, it's a bit weird.

i'm sure he does do you?

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Well, it's obviously retrospective but I think it should be acknowledged that this is a first hand account from someone who was (and excuse me here Phi) old enough to know what was going on at the time. This isn't just someone analysing 'history', it's someone's life experience.

More than fair. I'm simply stating that it's not wholly representative of the facts. As someone who lived through it, he doesn't make mention of many of the negative things she did back then that would have directly affected him/his family.

 

[kitch9]

Thatcher had a program of deregulation of the financial sector which ultimately led to the fucked up situation we find ourselves in now. With an economy based on debt, rather than money. Banks making huge losses but still paying out disgustingly large bonuses and salaries to executives who do fuck all to benefit society, all they do is load society with debt.

And we allow this debt to ruin people's lives. We allow the suffering of the poorest in society all because of this fiction. These ultimately valueless, meaningless numbers, which we are taught to give up almost our entire lives to acquire. How is it a sustainable situation when the ones who have all the money are giving it away to those who have no money, and then demanding it be paid back, plus extra?

The whole thing is completely fucked up, and hopefully it'll soon come crashing down.

13 years of a Labour government but it's Thatchers fault the banking sector crashed?

Tbh, I'm not seeing it fella, that's a bit of a stretch even in Ed Millibands wettest of dreams

 

[freenudemacusers]

Margaret Thatcher
Pasco_
????

 

[LukeTim]

13 years of a Labour government but it's Thatchers fault the banking sector crashed?

Tbh, I'm not seeing it fella, that's a bit of a stretch even in Ed Millibands wettest of dreams

I didn't say Labour were absolved of blame. She got the ball rolling.

 

[Kurtofan]

George Square in Glasgow Scotland:

 

[kurtrussell]

I didn't say Labour were absolved of blame. She got the ball rolling.

 

[kitch9]

i'm sure he does do you?

It's not a law banning gays and making it illegal as that would be the only thing that would justify his weird shite?

 

[Psychotext]

Do you even know what section 28 was? Your bile and venom doesn't really suit what you are talking about, it's a bit weird.

I really hope you're kidding about bile and venom related to Section 28. There's really not enough bile and venom to cover just what a horrifying effect that legislation had on young gay people.

 

[frankie_baby]

13 years of a Labour government but it's Thatchers fault the banking sector crashed?

Tbh, I'm not seeing it fella, that's a bit of a stretch even in Ed Millibands wettest of dreams

while there were certainly fuck ups at our end the banking crisis was a global problem that can not be placed squarely within our shores

 

[Miles Quaritch]

The "ills" that a ruling left-wing party had over a decade to fix? Hmmm right.

I'm not claiming Labour were any better. I have as much contempt for Blair and co for their inaction in trying to fix a lot of the problem Maggie caused. That doesn't automatically discount the things she did.

I'd also argue some things she did like privatising the railways, utilities, etc were simply impossible to fix.

The issue with generations of families living on benefits wouldn't have an issue back then anyway, such a thing takes decades to see the effects of, which is why we're only beginning to see the effects of it now.

 

[kitch9]

I didn't say Labour were absolved of blame. She got the ball rolling.

Nah, not wearing that one fella.

 

[Ding-Ding]

while i cant get exact figures it looks like income tax was only at 83% and obviously that was just the higher rate, VAT was only at 10% (compared with 20 today) overall take take as a percentage of gdp was similar to how it is today

Yeah everything is so similar now thanks to the evil world Thatcher created.

We have bodies going unburied today.
We dont have electricity or gas at home
We have to fight our way through picket lines to get to a hospital
We have rubbish tips on every street 4 feet high
We have food & petrol shortages due to lorry drivers striking

Oh, sorry. Thats the Neo Socialist economy of the 70's i'm thinking about. My mistake as the utopia of that time is so similar to todays UK

 

[Kurtofan]

13 years of a Labour government but it's Thatchers fault the banking sector crashed?

Tbh, I'm not seeing it fella, that's a bit of a stretch even in Ed Millibands wettest of dreams

New Labour is Thatcherist in case you didn't know...

 

[frankie_baby]

It's not a law banning gays and making it illegal as that would be the only thing that would justify his weird shite?

no but it was a law banning gays and being gay being being mentioned in schools, at a time when many kids are struggling to come to terms with their sexuality, so he was totallity justified

 

[LukeTim]

Nah, not wearing that one fella.

I don't understand what that is supposed to mean.

 

[Psychotext]

We have food & petrol shortages due to lorry drivers striking

That particular one wasn't so long ago...

 

[kurtrussell]

I'm not claiming Labour were any better. I have as much contempt for Blair and co for their inaction in trying to fix a lot of the problem Maggie caused. That doesn't automatically discount the things she did.

Or is it simply because the "problems" she caused were simply the least-objectionable choice, and there are indeed no other options?

 

[kurtrussell]

Oh, sorry. Thats the Neo Socialist economy of the 70's i'm thinking about. My mistake as the utopia of that time is so similar to todays UK

Don't forget the unions demanding 20% pay rises that effectively crippled and destroyed the UK car industry!

 

[Miles Quaritch]

I really hope you're kidding about bile and venom related to Section 28. There's really not enough bile and venom to cover just what a horrifying effect that legislation had on young gay people.

Let's just remind ourselves, shall we...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_28#Background

Disgusting doesn't begin to cover it.

 

[Kurtofan]

Or is it simply because the "problems" she caused were simply the least-objectionable choice, and there are indeed no other options?

"there is no alternative"

 

[akira28]

dancing on his grave? That's amazing.

 

[kitch9]

I really hope you're kidding about bile and venom related to Section 28. There's really not enough bile and venom to cover just what a horrifying effect that legislation had on young gay people.

It was all a bit weird fullstop that subject back then... Aids was becoming a thing, people were scared, stupid shit including that happened. It got pulled fairly quickly if I remember.

 

[Acorn]

The Iron Lady can rest now. I know she doesn't have a lot of fans, but at least she had the balls to do something. I respect that.

Sure she had the biggest balls in british politics in last 50 years, doesn't mean she used it for anything good.

And the politicians are doing something - continuing thatchers policies, it would be run the same way were she in power today. Just with more aggression and less tact.

 

[frankie_baby]

I'm not claiming Labour were any better. I have as much contempt for Blair and co for their inaction in trying to fix a lot of the problem Maggie caused. That doesn't automatically discount the things she did.

I'd also argue some things she did like privatising the railways, utilities, etc were simply impossible to fix.

The issue with generations of families living on benefits wouldn't have an issue back then anyway, such a thing takes decades to see the effects of, which is why we're only beginning to see the effects of it now.

actually privatisation of the railways wasnt thatcher, it was put in as a stupid unthoughtout inclusion in john majors manifesto when he thought he had no chance of winning the 92 election then somehow (combination of the sun and his opponent being ginger) he won and had to follow through and we ended up with the batshit insane situation we have today

 

[Psychotext]

Or is it simply because the "problems" she caused were simply the least-objectionable choice, and there are indeed no other options?

Like supporting Pinochet?

It got pulled fairly quickly if I remember.

You remember wrong. Try to stay away from subjects you don't understand, because I'm getting a feeling you have no idea just how much pain this particular one caused.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

The "ills" that a ruling left-wing party had over a decade to fix? Hmmm right.

New Labour. "left-wing"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA my fucking sides brb hernia

The reason fuck-all's changed is because of her - neoliberalism is now the default stance of British politics.

 

[Ding-Ding]

That particular one wasn't so long ago...

The difference is because of the laws that Thatcher put in, they can go on strike but cant stay on strike indefinitely.

In the 70's, it was strikes lasting weeks, and it always ended with the government having to pay up