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[Jeff Albertson]

I know this all have been posted a million times but I do agree with this, certainly seen it happening on my timeline

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/...her-was-ecstatic-that-shes-dead-2013040865066

As I'm a bit ignorant and don't really do politics or grave dancing (the damage done is no better for her death) ill just say thank you for the Mr Whippy Mrs Thatcher

 

[radioheadrule83]

Oops, sorry Radiohead - missed your excellent post somehow. It's too long to respond to tonight, so maybe tomorrow if we are still here. I started, but it all ended up too long and there was still half a post to go.

Besides, best not to do it when I'm tired.

No probs man. Sorry about my recent not so excellent post depicting celebrations btw... just sharing what I'm seeing on my social feeds

 

[BraXzy]

This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen to justify anything ever. Slight hyperbole but still.

It amazes me how news channels/papers manage to get the story put together and out so quickly.

 

[kharma45]

Scary place. Will be interesting to see how things go for the UK City of Culture this year.

Been grand so far but the Culture team need to get the finger out a bit more.

 

[Acorn]

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/...her-was-ecstatic-that-shes-dead-2013040865066

Nonsense article, her policies affect people today still. Also you don't have to be there to have a view.

Are we not allowed to have a view on Stalin, Hitler, Mitterand, churchill etc because you weren't there?

 

[BGBW]

Wow, actual street parties in Brixton (South London) and Glasgow: http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...rixton-glasgow

The people who were involved in the Brixton riots were far worse than Thatcher when it comes to Brixton's image today.

 

[Chichikov]

It amazes me how news channels/papers manage to get the story put together and out so quickly.

News organizations generally have files ready on most ailing or just old world leaders just for this case.

 

[Acorn]

This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen to justify anything ever. Slight hyperbole but still.

It amazes me how news channels/papers manage to get the story put together and out so quickly.

They have rehearsals for major deaths. For instance the BBC ran a dry run for the queens death a few years ago.

 

[Polari]

Brixton tonight:

Sizable celebrations in Brixton, Liverpool, Derry and Glasgow it seems:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/08/margaret-thatcher-death-party-brixton-glasgow

 

[SKINNER!]

Isn't The Daily Mash a satirical website like The Onion?

 

[CyclopsRock]

Nonsense article, her policies affect people today still. Also you don't have to be there to have a view.

Are we not allowed to have a view on Stalin, Hitler, Mitterand, churchill etc because you weren't there?

To the point where you set of flares and fireworks outside train stations, though? Seems like some people have had a few too many sweeties and got all excited.

 

[Acorn]

To the point where you set of flares and fireworks outside train stations, though? Seems like some people have had a few too many sweeties and got all excited.

I personally wouldn't do it, I understand why others do. Don't condone it, but what can you do?

My point was you can have a view on Thatcher or (anyone) irrespective of your age of birth.

 

[Danny 117]

Scary place. Will be interesting to see how things go for the UK City of Culture this year.

Scary? In what way?

Spoiler

Can't wait to leave this year.

 

[metalslimer]

Holy shit, I wonder if there will be this kind of celebration when W dies, although from the way people speak he is much less hated

 

[radioheadrule83]

To the point where you set of flares and fireworks outside train stations, though? Seems like some people have had a few too many sweeties and got all excited.

partly political activism, partly deep seated hatred, partly sweeties, mostly any excuse for a party I think

Isn't The Daily Mash a satirical website like The Onion?

Yep

See also NewsBiscuit, NewsThump and the pros PrivateEye

 

[Jburton]

Scary place. Will be interesting to see how things go for the UK City of Culture this year.

What do you mean "scary place"?

Always had a great welcome in Derry, especially at the Bloody Sunday marches ..... always gracious and generous hosts.

 

[PJV3]

partly political activism, partly deep seated hatred, partly sweeties, mostly any excuse for a party I think

It isn't that long ago anyway.
Parents who were affected by her policies etc.

 

[kharma45]

What do you mean "scary place"?

Always had a great welcome in Derry, especially at the Bloody Sunday marches ..... always gracious and generous hosts.

aye we're all friendly enough bar a few nutcases but that's the same anywhere.

 

[phisheep]

You're splitting semantics hairs with 'supported', but whatever.

Not at all. That's not hairsplitting by any means. She did not support apartheid.

"We believe that the objective for South Africa must be rapid progress towards equal human rights for all South Africans, Furthermore, we have strongly condemned the recent repressive measures adopted by the South African authorities"

]The policy of apartheid, with its emphasis on separating peoples rather than bringing them together, and all the harshness required to impose it on the South African population is wholly unacceptable.

I cannot accept that any government is justified in pursuing policies which are based on discrimination against one citizen as opposed to another on grounds either of race or religion. It is a basic principle of civilised society that all citizens are equal before the law. A system based on apartheid cannot be defended.

You want more there's more ... plenty more. Look, I know that she did not support sanctions against South Africa, but that does not justify you in saying that she supported apartheid, she did not. No hairsplitting.


Now, back to you.

More importantly, by your standards we can never judge politician because 'well, it was just an opinion and we only know it was wrong in hindsight'.
Like, do you apply the same forgiving logic to Chamberlain and the Sudetenland?
I mean, there were more people who thought we should concede to Hitler than there were who thought that sanctions on south Africa is a bad idea.

Yes I do. And why should I not? The Nazi menace then was apparent, but was not apparently what we now know it to be. The politics were different, the country was tired of war and thought another unlikely, if there was a possibility of peace then surely it should be taken? There are a myriad different ways of forgiving the Munich agreement and maybe only two against, one of which involves hindsight that was unavailable at the time (or foresight which was rare and is always unreliable until afterwards) and the other of which involves rampant warmongery which at the time we were not armed up for.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Sizable celebrations in Brixton, Liverpool, Derry and Glasgow it seems

From the pics, Brixton looks the most fun at the mo.

Not that I would attend any of them.

 

[Jburton]

Party in Derry too!





An iconic woman.

Party on the Falls Road at the Bobby Sands mural, saw the pics on Facebook.

 

[BGBW]

I wonder how many of them were even alive when the riots happened.

 

[CyclopsRock]

I personally wouldn't do it, I understand why others do. Don't condone it, but what can you do?

My point was you can have a view on Thatcher or (anyone) irrespective of your age of birth.

I don't think the Daily Mash's point was that you can't have a view, it's the rampant personal hatred that they find dumb (as do I). To quote their piece...

"19-year-old student Stephen Malley said: “The worst thing about Mrs Thatcher was her lack of humanity, empathy or emotion.

“That’s why it’s great that she’s succumbed to dementia after what would have been a long, frustrating and humiliating illness of the type commonly affecting elderly people. The fucking old cow.”"

It's satire, but only just.

 

[umop_3pisdn]

I have no real moral qualms with anyone celebrating the death of a person who - at least arguably - brought misery to millions and long-lasting negative aftereffects to many more.

I think the problem with celebrating a death shouldn't have anything to do with those who have died. They're dead, so why should they care how we feel about it. As far as their loved ones that are still alive my attitude would also be along the lines of 'who cares?'. I think it's probably not an ideal mental state to be glad that someone suffered, but I'm not about to get on a high horse about it as I'm no stranger to schadenfreude.

 

[operon]

What do you mean "scary place"?

Always had a great welcome in Derry, especially at the Bloody Sunday marches ..... always gracious and generous hosts.

They welcome will be great its the accent that's the problem

 

[PJV3]

I think the problem with celebrating a death shouldn't have anything to do with those who have died. They're dead, so why should they care how we feel about it. As far as their loved ones that are still alive my attitude would also be along the lines of 'who cares?'. I think it's probably not an ideal mental state to be glad that someone suffered, but I'm not about to get on a high horse about it as I'm no stranger to schadenfreude.

Luckily her family are bleeding awful, which makes it a lot easier.

I'm not celebrate celebrating her illness, that's going too far, though the Claw that she developed in the 90s was rather fitting.

 

[Measley]

Though I don't agree with her politics, I applaud her for succeeding at a man's game and becoming the first (and only) female PM of the UK.

RIP.

 

[Codeblue]

Not at all. That's not hairsplitting by any means. She did not support apartheid.

You want more there's more ... plenty more. Look, I know that she did not support sanctions against South Africa, but that does not justify you in saying that she supported apartheid, she did not. No hairsplitting.

Those quotes are great and all, but her actions weigh more heavily than her words.

 

[Chichikov]

Not at all. That's not hairsplitting by any means. She did not support apartheid.

She supported Apartheid with her actions, namely, her fighting against sanctions.
Call it what you want, I don't think it matters all that much.

p.s.
Do you think the sanctions against South Africa were a bad idea?

Though I don't agree with her politics, I applaud her for succeeding at a man's game and becoming the first (and only) female PM of the UK.

RIP.

She didn't exactly made it easier for women to get elected in the UK.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

I don't think the Daily Mash's point was that you can't have a view, it's the rampant personal hatred that they find dumb (as do I). To quote their piece...

"19-year-old student Stephen Malley said: “The worst thing about Mrs Thatcher was her lack of humanity, empathy or emotion.

“That’s why it’s great that she’s succumbed to dementia after what would have been a long, frustrating and humiliating illness of the type commonly affecting elderly people. The fucking old cow.”"

It's satire, but only just.

She should've taken advantage of that "care in the community" stuff.

 

[Jburton]

They welcome will be great its the accent that's the problem

Lol, fair enough .....it's a bit rough.

Nothing tops the Belfast accent, I can turn off and on at will ......handy in some situations lol.

 

[ksan]

From my view Scargill was the far more evil person in the domestic UK political arena, however Thatcher did a lot of other stuff that was morally reprehensible.
I don't think that there's any doubt that economically, times of transformation will always be a hard challenge for any leader.

She supported Apartheid with her actions, namely, her fighting against sanctions.
Call it what you want, I don't think it matters all that much.

p.s.
Do you think the sanctions against South Africa were a bad idea?

Where do you draw the line when sanctions are needed? Empirics at least seems to tell us that economic sanctions don't work.
Still, I understand the reasoning for them for a moral perspective, however I'd rather see real results and try for more pragmatic and efficient solutions.

 

[Chichikov]

I don't think that there's any doubt that economically, times of transformation will always be a hard challenge for any leader.

But great leaders can emerge popular and victorious from such challenges.
That is not to say that great leaders can't make terrible mistakes, but if they got the best interests of their people at heart, they'll more often than not be forgiven for the errors they made.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

But great leaders can emerge popular and victorious from such challenges.
That is not to say that great leaders can't make terrible mistakes, but if they got the best interests of their people at heart, they'll more often than not be forgiven for the errors they made.

I'm more annoyed than I should be that the glasses aren't flipped.

 

[ksan]

But great leaders can emerge popular and victorious from such challenges.
That is not to say that great leaders can't make terrible mistakes, but if they got the best interests of their people at heart, they'll more often than not be forgiven for the errors they made.

http://i.imgur.com/Ht1Fizw.gif[IMG][/QUOTE]
To me it looks like it was a dichotomous situation. Of course you could argue that you could have done it a lot better, but between the two choices the country had at that time I find it hard to believe that Thatcher was the worse solution in the long run.
I disagree with the second part, my understanding is that results are what are people remember.

 

[Psychoward]

But great leaders can emerge popular and victorious from such challenges.
That is not to say that great leaders can't make terrible mistakes, but if they got the best interests of their people at heart, they'll more often than not be forgiven for the errors they made.

Welp, saving that gif.

 

[Acorn]

But great leaders can emerge popular and victorious from such challenges.
That is not to say that great leaders can't make terrible mistakes, but if they got the best interests of their people at heart, they'll more often than not be forgiven for the errors they made.

We need a figure even half as big as FDR here to bring the left back into the fold.

Won't happen, we're stuck with Far Right, Right and right of centre.

 

[BGBW]

See I can understand why people uup Norf still have distaste for her if the effects of her policies are still being felt to this day, but Brixton certainly isn't. To make it even more ironic people have been graffing a new branch of Foxton's accusing it of gentrifying the area. So on one hand they say Brixton is still suffering but on the other hand they are saying Brixton is doing too well for itself. Sorry, I just get a bit annoyed when people come along and use Brixton as a political podium because they don't want to tarnish the reputation of their home town.

Not all those attending were old enough to remember Thatcher's time in power. Jed Miller, 21, clutching a bottle of cider, said: "She was a bit before my time, but family never had anything good to say about her."

Yeah...

 

[zero_suit]

We need a figure even half as big as FDR here to bring the left back into the fold.

Won't happen, we're stuck with Far Right, Right and right of centre.

Indeed, it's unfortunate.

 

[phisheep]

She supported Apartheid with her actions, namely, her fighting against sanctions.
Call it what you want, I don't think it matters all that much.

p.s.
Do you think the sanctions against South Africa were a bad idea?

Not necessarily. Sure, sanctions were a good idea, but foreign affairs are a whole load more complicated than that. It isn't always the best idea to have universal condemnation and sanctions. Otherwise the rogue regime has nowhere to turn (and nowhere to turn isn't necessarily the best position to have a rogue regime in, see South Korea for example).

If foreign affairs were that easy I'd just sack the foreign office and put GAF in instead.

It would not surprise me in the least if this were partially a set-up job to give SA at least one international avenue for talks. Not claiming that this is the case with Thatcher versus South Africa, as I wasn't at all close to that one, but I do know a few people in the Foreign Office and it does get that devious sometimes. What you see isn't necessarily what is happening underneath.

Whatever way it is, it does not amount to supporting apartheid.

 

[Ding-Ding]

After seeing more of this thread and some of these parties that people are having over Thatcher's death, I just think of one thing...

What makes you lot any different from the people that celebrated when the Twin Towers fell?

Please someone tell me as I think it would be interesting to see what some of your responses are and how self absorbed you are...

Also, why dont you give your age, as it would be intesting if the opinions come from those who remember the times in question, or if you are just a sheep following what your dear old Dad told you.

 

[Codeblue]

Where do you draw the line when sanctions are needed? Empirics at least seems to tell us that economic sanctions don't work.
Still, I understand the reasoning for them for a moral perspective, however I'd rather see real results and try for more pragmatic and efficient solutions.

Didn't she push for sanctions in Iraq?

Edit:

Also, why dont you give your age, as it would be intesting if the opinions come from those who remember the times in question, or if you are just a sheep following what your dear old Dad told you.

I understand what you're trying to say here, but you don't need to live through it to feel her influence. Asking for age is pointless as age itself doesn't invalidate anyone's opinion.

 

[Acorn]

After seeing more of this thread and some of these parties that people are having over Thatcher's death, I just think of one thing...

What makes you lot any different from the people that celebrated when the Twin Towers fell?

Please someone tell me as I think it would be interesting to see what some of your responses are and how self absorbed you are...

Also, why dont you give your age, as it would be intesting if the opinions come from those who remember the times in question, or if you are just a sheep following what your dear old Dad told you.

Ding ding indeed.

 

[phisheep]

After seeing more of this thread and some of these parties that people are having over Thatcher's death, I just think of one thing...

What makes you lot any different from the people that celebrated when the Twin Towers fell?

Please someone tell me as I think it would be interesting to see what some of your responses are and how self absorbed you are...

Also, why dont you give your age, as it would be intesting if the opinions come from those who remember the times in question, or if you are just a sheep following what your dear old Dad told you.

Baa

 

[zero shift]

God damn. I thought Venezuelans celebrating Chavez's death was something unique, but apparently not. Is this how people acted when Reagan died too?

Indeed, it's unfortunate.

At least you aren't America with Far Right and Right.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

After seeing more of this thread and some of these parties that people are having over Thatcher's death, I just think of one thing...

What makes you lot any different from the people that celebrated when the Twin Towers fell?

Please someone tell me as I think it would be interesting to see what some of your responses are and how self absorbed you are...

Also, why dont you give your age, as it would be intesting if the opinions come from those who remember the times in question, or if you are just a sheep following what your dear old Dad told you.

 

[Acorn]

At least you aren't America with Far Right and Right.

We're slowly getting there.

 

[remist]

After seeing more of this thread and some of these parties that people are having over Thatcher's death, I just think of one thing...

What makes you lot any different from the people that celebrated when the Twin Towers fell?

Please someone tell me as I think it would be interesting to see what some of your responses are and how self absorbed you are...

Also, why dont you give your age, as it would be intesting if the opinions come from those who remember the times in question, or if you are just a sheep following what your dear old Dad told you.

Trolling?

 

[Red Blaster]

After seeing more of this thread and some of these parties that people are having over Thatcher's death, I just think of one thing...

What makes you lot any different from the people that celebrated when the Twin Towers fell?

Please someone tell me as I think it would be interesting to see what some of your responses are and how self absorbed you are...

Also, why dont you give your age, as it would be intesting if the opinions come from those who remember the times in question, or if you are just a sheep following what your dear old Dad told you.

because the people who died in the twin towers were civilians going about their daily business while thatcher was a subhuman fuckstain who supported the khmer rouge

and i'm 8 years old

 

[metalslimer]

After seeing more of this thread and some of these parties that people are having over Thatcher's death, I just think of one thing...

What makes you lot any different from the people that celebrated when the Twin Towers fell?

Please someone tell me as I think it would be interesting to see what some of your responses are and how self absorbed you are...

Also, why dont you give your age, as it would be intesting if the opinions come from those who remember the times in question, or if you are just a sheep following what your dear old Dad told you.

Er....thousands of people died vs someone dying of old age?