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[KageMaru]

Hey look at that, some rumors that don't sound like shit. If it's true that DRM is an option for the publisher, I can live with that and just ignore the games that pull that shit.

I don't care about achievements so that means nothing to me and the video sharing is what we expected all along anyways.

Hopefully this is true so I can get both systems this year.

I've said since day one that the only way "online required" would fly is if both Sony and MS are doing it.

And this is completely consistent with that.

I assure you, if Lost Planet 3 or Bioshock Infinite 2 (examples) require online authentication, they will do so on BOTH the PS4 and the Durango. I fucking guarantee it.

Yup, I've been saying the same. Would be too foolish for one company or publisher to take on that risk alone.

 

[Izick]

Anybody? Why are people talking junk on Sony about being shady? Are they going to do something similar to what Microsoft is rumored to do?

 

[borius]

They aremcompletely ruinijg achievements after years of bad management?

 

[Squire]

Wait, wait I'm just catching up. What's the deal with Sony's stance on this? I thought they don't have any DRM stuff in the PS4?

The press has asked if they'll block used games, but when Penny Arcade did they got a little more specific then most others and Sony played coy. It'll have optional DRM measures. Sony might not use them when publishing their own titles, but they won't prohibit third-parties from using them.

This is going to be the case with both consoles. The PS3 has optional DRM right now.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Hey look at that, some rumors that don't sound like shit. If it's true that DRM is an option for the publisher, I can live with that and just ignore the games that pull that shit.

I'd argue it's too late for any boycott. I can see most publishers pushing online activations for most games. AAA/big name titles will absolutely have them.

 

[Izick]

The press has asked if they'll block used games, but when Penny Arcade did they got a little more specific then most others and Sony played coy. It'll have optional DRM measures. Sony might not use them when publishing their own titles, but they won't prohibit third-parties from using them.

This is going to be the case with both consoles. The PS3 has optional DRM right now.

Wow....so after all these rumors and people saying that Microsoft would tank for this...this is pretty crazy. At least it's not mandatory but...still, wow this is insane.

 

[mrklaw]

So both MS and Sony have region protection mechanisms built in. Yet while lots of MS games are region protected, all but a handful of Sony games are region free.

Why?

 

[D-e-f-]

Looks like its gonna do the sharing thing like ps4..HD twins returns

and again it will come down to "how much do you like Halo?" (or do you live in the US?) vs. tech porn and artsy stuff vs. cheaper and quirky.

 

[Curufinwe]

I assure you, if Lost Planet 3 or Bioshock Infinite 2 (examples) require online authentication, they will do so on BOTH the PS4 and the Durango. I fucking guarantee it.

Based on what? MS will make you pay for an Xbox Live subscription to access the online multiplayer for Lost Planet 3, but Sony won't. How can you be so sure Sony will be forced to require always online for games just because Microsoft is doing it?

 

[DopeyFish]

I'd argue it's too late for any boycott. I can see most publishers pushing online activations for most games. AAA/big name titles will absolutely have them.

In willing to bet all games require online activation

People are confusing Internet activation and Internet required

Internet activation required, online at all times is dev optional (like on 360/PS3)

Remember... Current understanding is developers cannot directly access the DVD drive which means all games are installed. The only way online activation is false is if the game installs, but you need to activate it online for you to not require the presence of the disc.

That sounds like a ridiculous undertaking and they would have to be 100% confident their security is unbreakable. Otherwise, online activations are likely.

 

[shandy706]

So kinda like sony ?

Sounds exactly like Sony.

It's up to the published to add (or not) online DRM.

 

[BlastProcessing]

The press has asked if they'll block used games, but when Penny Arcade did they got a little more specific then most others and Sony played coy. It'll have optional DRM measures. Sony might not use them when publishing their own titles, but they won't prohibit third-parties from using them.

This is going to be the case with both consoles. The PS3 has optional DRM right now.

I read Yoshida's statement to mean that they would allow publishers to implement their own DRM systems, not that the PS4 itself had an optional system for developers. He could have simply talking about MMO's and online passes, but we have seen corporations slide through similar rhetorical cracks before so I am in wait and see mode.

 

[PG2G]

Speaking as someone who never got a Twitter...is this not creepy as shit? Why is this an accepted thing these days?

Oh look, I'm going to "follow" you now and you have choice in the matter. They should just change the term to "stalk" and get it over with. The whole point of a friendship is it's supposed to be two-way. You don't just decide someone is going to be your friend now. That's called stalking.

Following would actually be perfect for people that put up content than non-friends would want to say. Say a group of people make and post a bunch of funny videos? Or how about one of the world's top starcraft players? Celebrities? Gaming Press?

Would you really expect a two way handshake in order to see their content?

 

[Beer Monkey]

Based on what? MS will make you pay for an Xbox Live subscription to access the online multiplayer for Lost Planet 3, but Sony won't. How can you be so sure Sony will be forced to require always online for games just because Microsoft is doing it?

Does the Catwoman content of Arkham City only require a one-time ($10) online pass on 360, or does it also on PS3?

If this grows to encompass entire single-player games, it will be on Sony and Microsoft's systems. Not just one of them. If you honestly think it's only going to be on one platform, you had better get ready to bite the pillow.



EDIT: You do understand that the Arkham City online pass has nothing to do with whether you are gold or silver on Live, free PSN or PS+, and so on, right? It is for everybody. 'Online required' DRM will be the same way.

 

[Izick]

I really like all of these ideas besides DRM. The twitter stuff sounds like a "duh" kind of thing that you don't think of until you see someone do it.

Can't wait for the 21st.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Based on what? MS will make you pay for an Xbox Live subscription to access the online multiplayer for Lost Planet 3, but Sony won't. How can you be so sure Sony will be forced to require always online for games just because Microsoft is doing it?

On that Sony can't do anything about it? They've said it's up to third party publishers what they do, so Sony have essentially washed their hands of any blame if third parties push ahead with persistent online or online activations.

In willing to bet all games require online activation

People are confusing Internet activation and Internet required

Internet activation required, online at all times is dev optional (like on 360/PS3)

Remember... Current understanding is developers cannot directly access the DVD drive which means all games are installed. The only way online activation is false is if the game installs, but you need to activate it online for you to not require the presence of the disc.

That sounds like a ridiculous undertaking and they would have to be 100% confident their security is unbreakable. Otherwise, online activations are likely.

Pretty much. Persistent online will be pushed hard I feel at the start of the next generation, but will hopefully die out when those attempts fail spectacularly, but online activations are 100% guaranteed to become the norm on both consoles. I think there will be some holdouts, probably from the smaller publishers, but I expect even they will eventually jump on the bandwagon before the end of the next generation.

 

[GeeDuhb]

My biggest fear in this whole thing is, I have become an avid Gamefly user an it has truly changed the way I game in the past few years. Am I wrong in saying that this would essentially completely kill of the entire idea of Gamefly?

 

[Metalmurphy]

The press has asked if they'll block used games, but when Penny Arcade did they got a little more specific then most others and Sony played coy. It'll have optional DRM measures. Sony might not use them when publishing their own titles, but they won't prohibit third-parties from using them.

This is going to be the case with both consoles. The PS3 has optional DRM right now.

Where exactly did you get this info from?

All I got from what's been said on Sonys said is if publishers want to block their gamer, it's up to them, but this is already possible on PS3. They just have to code the game that way.

There was nothing said about "optional DRM measures" from Sonys side.

 

[ypo]

So both MS and Sony have region protection mechanisms built in. Yet while lots of MS games are region protected, all but a handful of Sony games are region free.

Why?

Because if Microsoft is shit everyone else is shit too.....wait...

 

[KageMaru]

Based on what? MS will make you pay for an Xbox Live subscription to access the online multiplayer for Lost Planet 3, but Sony won't. How can you be so sure Sony will be forced to require always online for games just because Microsoft is doing it?

It's not Sony that would be forcing anything, it would be the publisher. If both the PS4 and Durango offered the options, why would Capcom (for example) only choose the requirement on Durango but not the PS4? Doesn't make any sense.

 

[Beer Monkey]

In willing to bet all games require online activation

I'll bet you anything you want that many games require no online activation at all.

Because if Microsoft is shit everyone else is shit too.....wait...

Hey, Sony's the one who wants to fuck people who buy used copies of Killzone, Resistance et al by making them buy an online pass, amirite? Nice Guy Mister Softy lets you play online with Halo and Gears even if you didn't buy them new.



ps No corporation is ever your friend. Ever.

 

[Izick]

I'll bet you anything you want that many games require no online activation at all.

Give a percentile that you would call "many." More than 50% will have no DRM? More than 75%? 90%?

 

[DopeyFish]

On that Sony can't do anything about it? They've said it's up to third party publishers what they do, so Sony have essentially washed their hands of any blame if third parties push ahead with persistent online or online activations.



Pretty much. Persistent online will be pushed hard I feel at the start of the next generation, but will hopefully die out when those attempts fail spectacularly, but online activations are 100% guaranteed to become the norm on both consoles. I think there will be some holdouts, probably from the smaller publishers, but I expect even they will eventually jump on the bandwagon before the end of the next generation.

I doubt they will be pushed hard...

But knowing one must have a presence of an online connection, even if not all the time, means it will be an easier sell to have online only software (massively multiplayer, cloud computing scenarios)

 

[Penguins&PolarBears]

Achievements need to unlock something meaningful outside of the game. It needs to be a game within many other games, Gameception.

 

[Mandoric]

It's not Sony that would be forcing anything, it would be the publisher. If both the PS4 and Durango offered the options, why would Capcom (for example) only choose the requirement on Durango but not the PS4? Doesn't make any sense.

MS has a long history of "you can, buuuuut..." decisions: see regioning on the X360 vs. PS3.
Both are nominally "region-free" but the X360 requires a few extra $10k cert fees for each region and has a lot of regionlocked games; PS3 just exposes the system region and allows games to shut down if they don't like it, which has lead to one regionlocked game and one regionlocked karaoke app.

 

[shandy706]

If you hate achievements than why are you upset about there being more ways to get a achievements? You do realize that you can turn off achievement notifications so that you never even need to know they exist?

Those people commenting are about as sharp as a ball.

I couldn't care less about my trophies or gamer score.

 

[DopeyFish]

I'll bet you anything you want that many games require no online activation at all.

I want them all like that

I have grown accustomed to steam and hate hoarding all the discs and cases

If I could have day 1 online purchases, I'd take it in an instant.

 

[Router]

Anybody? Why are people talking junk on Sony about being shady? Are they going to do something similar to what Microsoft is rumored to do?

Every PS4 purchased, Sony punches a baby.

 

[RetroStu]

When the masses (who don't constantly follow gaming news on the web) realise that they can't use a used game without doing 'x' or 'y' or they realise they can't play on their new $500 console without internet etc, these things will be changed with a simple software update or an update on a game etc.
People are acting like its a bad thing that locking used games and requiring an internet connection to play games is left upto the developers/publishers to decide but this is a good thing for us because apart from the anooying and stubborn mega publishers like EA, all the others will start panicking when game sales drop and the whole web is full of moaning people who can't use their consoles and play their games because they don't have the internet.
There are going to be shit storms at the end of the year with the masses if a lot of these rumours are true and contrary to what people believe, we the people hold the true power and if people revolt against this stuff and speak with their pockets then the industry will shit themselves and bow down to what the majority want.

 

[Beer Monkey]

Give a percentile that you would call "many." More than 50% will have no DRM? More than 75%? 90%?

He said "all games will require activation". No way that happens. Hard to say how many will require it. Part of that will depend on whether the consumer puts up with it. I know I'm not. If games I buy are worthless to other people after I activate them, I'm not buying them, or at least not anything that I KNOW I'll want to keep. I sell a LOT of stuff.

 

[SniperHunter]

if DRM is up to the publishers, simply don't buy their games IMO....

 

[DopeyFish]

He said "all games will require activation". No way that happens. Hard to say how many will require it. Part of that will depend on whether the consumer puts up with it. I know I'm not. If games I buy are worthless to other people after I activate them, I'm not buying them, or at least not anything that I KNOW I'll want to keep. I sell a LOT of stuff.

Nobody says there won't be anything to do used sales (by deactivating the license)

 

[Izick]

I want them all like that

I have grown accustomed to steam and hate hoarding all the discs and cases

If I could have day 1 online purchases, I'd take it in an instant.

I hope that we at least get that from this. Probably one of the only silver linings I can find as a cosnumer in DRM. I jut hope MSony have the HDD to back it up.

Also, I don't think I can go full digital. Day-1 digital will be awesome, but there are certain games I just wouldn't buy digitally....then again if they have DRM that doesn't matter I guess.

He said "all games will require activation". No way that happens. Hard to say how many will require it. Part of that will depend on whether the consumer puts up with it. I know I'm not. If games I buy are worthless to other people after I activate them, I'm not buying them, or at least not anything that I KNOW I'll want to keep. I sell a LOT of stuff.

I understood what you said, and I probably would agree. I just wanted a vague percentile guess of what you thought "many" games was.

 

[ypo]

Hey, Sony's the one who wants to fuck people who buy used copies of Killzone, Resistance et al by making them buy an online pass, amirite? Nice Guy Mister Softy lets you play online with Halo and Gears even if you didn't buy them new.



ps No corporation is ever your friend. Ever.

Psstt you forgot this thing where every single X360 requires a MS online tax...but OMG Sony!!!

Online pass is shit too but doesn't mean you can damage control one company's shitty practice by making shit up.

Actually Online pass is a good example. Only few PS3 games have online pass where as every single X360 has a online tax new and used. Pay $60 dollars on a brand new X360 game? Too bad no online for you unless you pay the toll.

 

[Squire]

Wow....so after all these rumors and people saying that Microsoft would tank for this...this is pretty crazy. At least it's not mandatory but...still, wow this is insane.

It's just one of those things that pops up at the dawn of a generation. I don't expect it to stick. It'll be like DRM on PC now. Rarely used and when it is, we're reminded why.

 

[Goldenroad]

I'm a guy who loves trophies / achievements and I think this change sucks really bad. I hate not having 100% on games where I want them and with changes like this it means you have more games where its impossible to get them due to timed ones (ie. you have to partake in this specific event that only happens once) or having dumb things like cross title ones.

Why though? What different does it make? What do you get for having achievements or miss out on by not having them? Maybe it might be time for a bit of self-analysis as you must realize this is not normal.

 

[Izick]

It's just one of those things that pops up at the dawn of a generation. I don't expect it to stick. It'll be like DRM on PC now. Rarely used and when it is, we're reminded why.

I hope so. I really do.

 

[KageMaru]

MS has a long history of "you can, buuuuut..." decisions: see regioning on the X360 vs. PS3.
Both are nominally "region-free" but the X360 requires a few extra $10k cert fees for each region and has a lot of regionlocked games; PS3 just exposes the system region and allows games to shut down if they don't like it, which has lead to one regionlocked game and one regionlocked karaoke app.

Are you talking from experience or just from your ass? It doesn't make sense to charge a few extra $10k for a region free game. It really doesn't make sense when it's supposed to be a single certification for every region, or so I thought.

Psstt you forgot this thing where every single X360 requires a MS online tax...but OMG Sony!!!

Online pass is shit too but doesn't mean you can damage control one company's shitty practice by making shit up.

Actually Online pass is a good example. Only few PS3 games have online pass where as every single X360 has a online tax new and used. Pay $60 dollars on a brand new X360 game? Too bad no online for you unless you pay the toll.

I didn't think he was making anything up. IMO he was making a point that neither company is innocent and both are just there to get our money.

 

[Syphon Filter]

If it's up to the publisher then how come Paul says that is must be connected to work?

 

[Ushae]

Sorry I'm LTTP (thanks to my late shift .. )

Skimming over the thread it looks like the general consensus is;
*Microsoft looks like it will dispel always online rumors*
"But the new Achievement system looks like it sucks donkey bollocks!"
*GAF continues to shit on MSFT and praise Sony for giving Publishers the control*

*sigh*

Sorry guys it's been a long day. Carry on.

 

[Izick]

If it's up to the publisher then how come Paul says that is must be connected to work?

He never said that, and he sounded like he wasn't exactly sure how it would be implemented.

Internet-connected. The next Xbox must be Internet-connected to use. This is the source of the “always on”/“always online” rumors and isn’t as Draconian as many seem to believe.

That could mean for the features of it, or any number of things. Thurrott never said it had to be connected for any actions; that's why he said he didn't know when someone asked him if games needed a connection.

EDIT: Also, why are people ragging on the new achievement stuff? Did I miss something? It just sounds like they're going to flesh them out more.

 

[DopeyFish]

If it's up to the publisher then how come Paul says that is must be connected to work?

Online activation required

But the device and software doesn't require a consistent online connection unless the software does.

 

[RetroStu]

I want them all like that

I have grown accustomed to steam and hate hoarding all the discs and cases

If I could have day 1 online purchases, I'd take it in an instant.

I don't think many people would be willing to download 50gig games, if their internet would even allow them to in the first place and thats not taking into account the hard drive size you would need to do that.
No we are a long way away from a DD future, in fact i bet you won't be able to download full size next gen games for a good amount of time.

 

[mugurumakensei]

If it's up to the publisher then how come Paul says that is must be connected to work?

No, he doesn't, he says the publisher may choose to make online required. Online required comes in two flavors one time activation or consistent online connection.

 

[Izick]

Do Steam games make you do this? I know there's an offline mode, but I'm not sure how it works.

 

[DopeyFish]

I don't think many people would be willing to download 50gig games, if their internet would even allow them to in the first place and thats not taking into account the hard drive size you would need to do that.
No we are a long way away from a DD future, in fact i bet you won't be able to download full size next gen games for a good amount of time.

I fully expect we will be able to... Just unsure of day 1 availability

Though if people want to use online or B&M, it's their choice

I also don't expect games to be consistently pushing that 50 gig barrier, either

Do Steam games make you do this? I know there's an offline mode, but I'm not sure how it works.

For initial activation, you need to be online. Online requirement is rare. (I own 200 games on steam and the only ones that required online were MMORPGs)

 

[Arzehn]

So to 100% a game I need to buy another game?

 

[RetroStu]

No, he doesn't, he says the publisher may choose to make online required. Online required comes in two flavors one time activation or consistent online connection.

I can't see that happening, i mean what would the reason be for that? they will need to explain because people would ask.

 

[Mrbob]

I'm ok with one time online activation required.

I don't think this alone will block used games, but this online activation could lead to requiring another free if you want to use the disc with a different account.

For example, you buy a game, register it to your account with online activation, and you can use it wherever you are signed in. If you want to play it under another account, you'll have to pay 10 dollars to activate it under the new account. Or something along the lines of this. Gamestop can still sell used games, and publishers get a cut of the used game market.

 

[Izick]

I don't get the hate for the achievement stuff. Some of it could be skeevy, but there's already been that kind of lame shit with the basic achievement system in place on the 360. (Avatar: TLA) This sounds like it could be really awesome as well though. Just ignore the shit, and embrace the cool stuff.

For initial activation, you need to be online. Online requirement is rare. (I own 200 games on steam and the only ones that required online were MMORPGs)

Thanks.