Anticitizen One
Banned
Honestly it still turned out to be a pretty good game. I just felt the last level should have been better and they shouldn't have copied other games by throwing in QTEs and shit
343 Scrapped Traditional Halo: A Story About Triple-A
- Thread starter Plywood
- Start date
Randolph Freelander
Member
Not a bad plan. My philosophy is if it ain't broke....
But at a fundamental level, I have never understood the forum mentality that everything has to be new. Add this. Sprinkle in that. I say leave it the heck alone. People like the game for a reason, don't mess with it.
In my world that apparently nobody else lives in, sequels would be to continue the story. If there's nothing compelling going on there (and in my world [that nobody else...], there hasn't been), then no. Sit on your hands for all I care. Count your money or something.
Ain't no need [/southern twang coming out] to reinvent wheels and rewrite engines. And they wonder why games never come in at budget. People always wanting to take everything that works and toss it out (this is fundamentally true of a lot of development, not just games, for the record. At least, going from my programming experience).
Silly.Mikey
Banned
Its not that it needs to be new, but shit gets stale real quick when there isn't change. Even COD adds new perks and shit. Hell the game would get stale even faster if there weren't map packs coming out. There has to be something or else why spend $$ on a new version that doesn't change anything? Might as well pack it up and shut the studio.
Twilight Gap
Member
Yes, it would be nice to have had Halo end after 3, or even after Reach, but Microsoft wasn't going to let their cash cow rest in piece.
I agree that what works should be untouched; however, where we differ is I don't mind some new things to enhance the experience. Again, new maps are chief among those additions, and I doubt you have disliked all of the new vehicles added since CE.
But anything that changes the fundamentals of how it's played usually turns off old fans. What if one day, Mario couldn't jump? What if you couldn't level up Pokémon? What if there was no ADS in CoD?
People would be pissed.
NullPointer
Member
Not everything needs to be new or changed, but Halo 4 wasn't just another installment. The reins were handed over to an entirely new development team.
I dunno - that seemed like the proper occasion to really run with some new ideas. All those new designers and artists on the team, and you know people want to put their spin on things, to be allowed some creative freedom. 343 deserved a chance to put their own stamp on things - to carve out their own identity.
Doing that without alienating long time fans though, that's one hell of a tight-rope to walk, and when in doubt, the lesson here seems to be that its definitely better to fall back to classic gameplay than attempt to copy other modern shooters, just because that's seen as some kind of standard.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
My favorite campaign experience in the entire franchise, so if they manage to deliver an even better game next time, then I'm there day one. I'm not ashamed to say that Halo 4's campaign is my favorite of all the games.
That mostly has to do with the fact that each new iteration in the franchise has been significantly worse than the last (ODST not withstanding).
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Interesting
Randolph Freelander
Member
i'm ok with this.jpg
Actually, you're talking to the wrong dude. I actually don't like any vehicular addition to Halo. I don't want to be in them for any duration in the campaign. I do not get in them in multiplayer (not that I've played MP since 3). I like being on foot, and I like fighting enemies on foot. I've argued often enough that I thought the vehicle mix in CE was perfect, both in frequency and variety, and it has simply been (I say ridiculously) amplified in subsequent games. Beyond the plot, that's my biggest complaint about the single player. In multi, I have never liked the continued addition of power weapons, beginning with the stupid sword in Halo 2. They should have left that thing like the books said, that only Elites could control the thing and it self-destructs out of their hands. And, of course, it has only gone downhill from there.
(For the record, I've never played Pokemon, only like 2D Mario [and don't need any new games there anyway], and don't play COD, so I can't offer any commentary on those titles.)
IxmagicmanIx
Member
343 made a bad game and should feel bad.
I feel Halo 5 is going be even worse.
Silly.Mikey
Banned
Exactly. What bothers people isn't necessarily the change itself but where it came from. Had they just tried to innovate instead of copy, i think the reactions in here would be totally different.
There will always be those people who hate any type of change whatsoever, but to copy paste COD ones was not innovative in the slightest.
I personally like change, but i prefer innovation. Halo always innovated. And to those who say SO is innovative, please spare me, its a second SP campaign split into little pieces then released online. Theres no innovation there.
NullPointer
Member
We got a lot in common here. I'm not a vehicle guy either, although I prefer the balance to them in Halo games more than any other game out there.
I'd honestly recommend Gears of War Judgment's campaign. Third person combat, but it's the gold standard with a huge sandbox of weapons and moves, and the campaign is pure, 100% infantry combat. No vehicles. Plot is thin though. Just enough there to provide context for the incredibly frantic combat.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
this is how i feel also. It's not that changes happened, its that they played copy cat to COD. If it was innovative and unique, then I'd been happy but they literally just copy and pasted. Compare this to how bungie added horde mode in Halo with firefight, they made something entirely unique to halo. Even spartan ops was copied from bf, when again the opportunity was there for something unique. And also at what cost? they removed firefight, they removed theater mode, no more weapon spawns etc.
Randolph Freelander
Member
Gears is the only game I'm probably getting this year, but there's no rush. I will get it eventually, though. Certainly before anything else that might come along.
Just remove everything and leave behind SWAT.
SWAT takes the best of both Halo and CoD and mashes it into the best multilayer experience in gaming. Ever.
It's the ultimate leveler. No radar, no power weapon whoring, no shields but you still need the skill to pull off head shots. Map memory still comes into play with experience because you know where to line up your reticle at any given time, but you still ultimately need to land the shot or you're dead. Everyone is on a level paying field because they have the same weapons, and as long as the maps are well designed, camping is kept to a minimum.
I'm amazed it isn't far more popular. Probably because there's too much choice. Make SWAT the only option Frankie, they will come.
SWAT takes the best of both Halo and CoD and mashes it into the best multilayer experience in gaming. Ever.
It's the ultimate leveler. No radar, no power weapon whoring, no shields but you still need the skill to pull off head shots. Map memory still comes into play with experience because you know where to line up your reticle at any given time, but you still ultimately need to land the shot or you're dead. Everyone is on a level paying field because they have the same weapons, and as long as the maps are well designed, camping is kept to a minimum.
I'm amazed it isn't far more popular. Probably because there's too much choice. Make SWAT the only option Frankie, they will come.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
I disagree completely with the cod elements. it breaks multiplayer and makes it feel nothing like halo.
Twilight Gap
Member
I guess we're just on different pages then. I'm a fan of the original of course, but I want to see the series move forward in a way that honors its legacy. IMO, Halo 4's multiplayer doesn't do that, which is continuing a trend Bungie kinda started.
There are many CoD elements that would work in Halo, but the ones that change core gameplay do not belong in premier playlists IMO. The fact that there is not one playlist in the game without the infinity influence is bothersome.
Silly.Mikey
Banned
Not really. COD isnt broken and it is played competitively everywhere. People just don't like the fact that they're COD elements.
Captain Blood
Member
Right......
And this one was really about his breakfast.
https://twitter.com/JoshingtonState/status/274218625039212544
And this one.
https://twitter.com/JoshingtonState/status/274255828264042496
Aiming in Halo has been stupid easy ever since Halo 2, which is what makes SWAT a joke, you can just swipe your BR and let the aim assist get the kill. SWAT is very stale and repetitive, Halo MP should be played with full shields with an emphasis on power weapons and power ups being controlled within a constant battle of map control and teamwork. SWAT has little to none of that, it's just mindless one shot slaying with one or two precision weapons.
Yes, taunt the mods, good plan!
Captain Blood
Member
Not taunting just saying that I don't buy it. He is the one who threw out moron.
I disagree entirely. There are a lot of facets to the Call of Duty-inspired additions to the Halo 4 progression system, but let's just focus on one of them for the sake of argument: Passive perk-like mods that change base player traits. Halo is, at its core, a game that centers around being able to internalize all the variables, make predictions based on those variables, and act decisively, which rewards players who take the time to understand all the ins and outs of the game. When I'm trying to harass a sniper in a classic Halo game, I can pepper him with fire to knock him out of scope - this is a base player trait for every player in the match, I know with 100% certainty that when I hit him he is not scoped in. When I'm trying to harass a sniper in Halo 4, I don't know if he has the Stability mod, which stabilizes the player's reticule from flinching when they're shot - my shots could be doing practically nothing to his ability to dome me and I have absolutely no indication of that until I'm dead, and even then it's a guessing game. In any Halo game, I can get a player to no shields, where some players will choose to hide so they can start to regenerate. I know that in Halo 2, his shields will start to recharge in 4 seconds and in 6 seconds he'll be at full health. In Halo 4 I don't know whether or not that player has the Shielding mod, which decreases shield recharge rate - his shields will begin to charge at 6 seconds, but I could have far less time after that to finish my kill before he's back at full health. In a classic Halo game, I know that if I can get behind a sniper, he'll likely be in scope and therefore won't have a radar, making him an easy kill. In Halo 4, I don't know if he has the Awareness upgrade, which gives players radar while in scope - I have no way of knowing if he has full awareness of me coming up behind him, which may lead to my death where I otherwise would have succeeded. One last example, because I know I'm beating it into the ground: In a classic Halo game, if a player fires two rockets and then begins his reload, I know roughly the amount of time it will take him to reload and I judge his current state (based on visual shield feedback) as well as my own state and positioning and I can make a decision on whether or not to engage based on that reload time. In Halo 4, I don't know if that player has the Dexterity mod, which halves reload speed on all weapons - he could reload in the blink of an eye and explode my face and I'd have no indication of that prior to it happening.
I think there's still some merit to a perk-based multiplayer for specific series, but it doesn't really reward player knowledge and predictive skills like Halo did. There simply isn't any reasonable way to internalize all that knowledge with how the number of variables has escalated. I especially don't think it works well in a game with average engagement time as long as Halo, which is very much cat-and-mouse, something I don't really think Call of Duty does very well. That's not even going into what having to create variety for loadout selection has done to predictability, weapon balance, and game flow.
The way that's written depresses me.
We worked against the odds... we developed something beautiful that both we as creators and our audience could appreciate and adore...
Then we scrapped it because it was exactly as intended. Deal with it.
soulassssns
Banned
I think 343 did a good job and enjoyed the game very much.
^lol @ CoD fanboys caring about storylines.
^lol @ CoD fanboys caring about storylines.
soulassssns
Banned
I agree and I'm a long time Halo fan.
ToyMachine228
Member
This is a case of GAF bias in action. Halo 4 did a great number of things right that much of the audience here fails to recognize. Unlike every Halo game after Halo:CE, Halo 4 had that sense of wonder and discovery again. They did it by creating an interesting world and with great tech and audio. Even though Halo 4's campaign isn't perfect, I felt like it was as much as, if not more than compelling as some of Bungie's campaigns.
As far as multiple, I have welcomed just about all of the changes that 343 has made. In the end, I am very satisfied with Halo 4 and I really hope 343 keeps pushing it into new territory. Create new things. Dazzle me. Don't be afraid. I for one, am excited that its in the hands of a new developer that can give a new spin.
As far as the story, Halo 4 to me, serves just like Halo: CE did. An introduction. In Halo: CE we didn't learn anything about what was going on. We were just in the middle of it. We learned more about the things we were seeing in Halo 2, 3, and subsequent novels. I fully expect to see more of the Forerunners and have it all come together in a meaningful way. I just hope that 343 doesn't follow the route Bungie took, because once Halo 2 got out the door, the Covenant lost everything that made them an intimidating force.
As far as multiple, I have welcomed just about all of the changes that 343 has made. In the end, I am very satisfied with Halo 4 and I really hope 343 keeps pushing it into new territory. Create new things. Dazzle me. Don't be afraid. I for one, am excited that its in the hands of a new developer that can give a new spin.
As far as the story, Halo 4 to me, serves just like Halo: CE did. An introduction. In Halo: CE we didn't learn anything about what was going on. We were just in the middle of it. We learned more about the things we were seeing in Halo 2, 3, and subsequent novels. I fully expect to see more of the Forerunners and have it all come together in a meaningful way. I just hope that 343 doesn't follow the route Bungie took, because once Halo 2 got out the door, the Covenant lost everything that made them an intimidating force.
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
Storywise, if they keep right in line with the Greg Bear material - most specifically Silentium - I will be one happy camper.
soulassssns
Banned
Watch out as HaloGaf might come with pitchforks and torches LOL.
I too hope 343 keeps doing what they are doing with the franchise.
The new enemies were terrible. Glad to fight the good old Covenant.
I respectfully disagree.
They first need to learn how to tell that story in-game. Bungie never really figured that one out either.
soulassssns
Banned
I wouldnt say terrible but it was pretty damn tedious when knights showed up. It felt like my weapons were all underpowered.
Syphon Filter
Member
Boom.
343 is in no position to treat anyone like that. They're lucky their game can survive solely on its name. They have some major work to do for Halo 5. As someone who has purchased every Halo game (except for Halo Wars), Halo 5 will be the first one that I skip (although I will probably rent it to give it a shot). Which is really quite sad. I just don't trust in the direction that 343 is taking the franchise. To be fair though, I didn't like the direction Reach was going either.
I think Bungie's decision to move on from Halo is often overlooked by most people. They knew it was the right time to walk away from that franchise, and there's a lot to say for knowing when it's time to hang up the cleats for the last time. But Microsoft saw the money signs. You can't really blame them for that either, but as a result we have gotten a watered down version of a game that used to be so good.
I actually feel bad for the team over at 343. They were given an impossible situation when you think about it. There was no way they could have pleased everyone, but they should have tried harder to please the fans of the original Halos rather than try to do something innovative (aka what we actually got). It would have been nice if they stuck to the older formulas that were already proven successful.
RIP in peace Halo.
FunkyMunkey
Banned
Almost no one is saying don't change halo at all. But what we don't want is some mess of 50 different ideas rolled up into a game, without any thought as to how it will alter or hurt gameplay and balance. Meanwhile alienating thousands of players who like halo because it plays like halo. Bungie managed to add things with each iteration, but they took care to balance and listen to the god damn community. 343 straight-out told people not to worry, that they didn't need a beta, and that they knew what makes the halo series great. In reality, they have no idea, and the game we got was as if a classroom full of middle-schoolers with ADD threw a bunch of ideas in a hat, and then 343 said fuck it and implemented every single one.
They made almost the entire multiplayer mode some weird/nonsensical hybrid between CoD and the Halo fiesta-gametype. It doesn't even have a trace of forethought.
They made almost the entire multiplayer mode some weird/nonsensical hybrid between CoD and the Halo fiesta-gametype. It doesn't even have a trace of forethought.
tea_and_crumpets
Member
Some people in this thread are so self entitled its embarrassing.
Anyway, I thought Halo 4 was a great game, dont think I've enjoyed a Halo campaign this much since the first one.
Multiplayer was a nice evolution. I had a lot of fun.
Anyway, I thought Halo 4 was a great game, dont think I've enjoyed a Halo campaign this much since the first one.
Multiplayer was a nice evolution. I had a lot of fun.
Syphon Filter
Member
Just because most think the game is shit doesn't mean they're entitled.
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
Isn't that the truth. It's the one big problem with the Halo games. They're confusing unless you check out the wikis and read the books. I love that Frankie encyclopedia, although. Damn, that book is beautiful.
no offense to the developers of the Halo franchise or to the people who are explaining why they don't like things in newer Halo games but Halo CE was a mistake and basically no one who has ever been involved in the development of the Halo franchise understands why CE is good or has the capacity to
That's because it is fan fiction. A tacked on "universe expansion" brimming with retcons, weak characterization, villains without motives, and now even the ancient aliens have their own ancient aliens.
Money money money. Halo 3 closed off beautifully.
Randolph Freelander
Member
I agree with this sentiment, although I think the more appropriate term is "accident."
I do think they sort of fell into it, given that they changed genres, platforms, and rushed the thing out the door by executive order to make launch. "Here it is (this isn't going to go well)... and... people..... like it?!?"
Frankly, I bet they were just as surprised as anybody.
MaximumFlipFlop
Banned
Josh posted that shit the same day HG and other communities were pissed about the new mappack. He thinks he's funny.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Nice post. Another example is the Ammo mod: You hear two Rockets being shot, then another two and you know they're out of Rockets so that determines how you push an area. In Halo 4 you could count 4 Rockets, but you don't know if the player has the Ammo mod so if you push as a team to gain map control and they still have Rockets gg.
The list goes on.
Twilight Gap
Member
lmao
They should have
killed palmer
Halsey will get a cloned arm or something from the composer and some space magic will be sprinkled to pull Cortana out of a hat again