Can bottle(necks) be used to store secret sauce in memory?
Kotaku Rumor: Microsoft 6 months behind in game production for X720 [Pastebin = Ban]
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
1. Sony and Microsoft are only afraid of each other. They don't give two shits about Nintendo in their present state. Sony said that they plan to support PS3 for 10 years, not that this gen will last that long. You didn't see Sony drop PS2 support as soon as PS3 came out, now did you?
2. Older systems are still selling, so does that mean that technology advancement should just stop because they are selling? Does it mean that we don't deserve next gen until present gen sales come to a screeching halt? Everyone is tired from the old hardware and WiiU brought nothing fresh to the table, it's just a shitty 2006. hardware combined with a low quality resistive screen tablet. Don't try to spin it into something revolutionary. Nintendo was the king of the present gen but will be the beggar of the next gen. Sales of WiiU are disastrous and will probably be even worse when PS4 and X720 come out. The only thing that can save WiiU hardware sales now is a $100-150 price cut. But in that case they are selling hardware at a loss which isn't good considering that the software attach rate is abysmal.
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
Well, I know I'm taking the word of an obviously moronic and uninformed forum poster over that of the many talented and knowledgeable developers and studios that have praised its design and performance.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Its best to not lump yourself in with the monster raving loony party lest you be committed yourself.
What an insane page to log back into GAF and see. Theres delusion and then theres a version of reality someone can so wholeheartedly believe that it scares me.
Sony said the same thing about the PS1 and PS2, and they made them last 10 years. The PS3 10-year plan didn't involve waiting 10 years for the PS4, it involved launching the PS4 around 6-7 years after the PS3 like it happened with the PS3 and the PS2.
mysteriousmage09
Member
OK we're fucking done here.
I am in the fucking twilight zone. anihawk has competition.
As long as the lids stay on. You don't want to sauce to run out do you? DO YOU?!?
I am so confused. Quinton is serious or not? I will respond as if serious:
Man if Nintendo's system was done without being rushed, PS4 and Xbox 720 will likely be so awful it'll crash the industry. Wii U was a mess from start to finish, from its games lineup to its horrendously slow OS... the only way it would have been worse is if it had an equivalent to the RROD.
So I guess Ps4 and Xbox 720 kill people upon power up?
Various high ups at Sony have said multiple times, and it has to be said, the console shell is probably the most unimportant part of any reveal... practically speaking, they could probably release a big ass box with good air flow and as long as the components fit together you'd have your PS4. They already said we would see it at E3, too, and that they need to 'save things to reveal' so that they have a big show alongside their competitors.
So not only did they hold back the case design, but they held back game announcements (SquareEnix: 'please await E3' and others) and all sorts of minutiae related to the system. They have stated it is because they want the info release to be staggered over the course of the various trade shows and events coming up prior to the consoles release.
Man if Nintendo's system was done without being rushed, PS4 and Xbox 720 will likely be so awful it'll crash the industry. Wii U was a mess from start to finish, from its games lineup to its horrendously slow OS... the only way it would have been worse is if it had an equivalent to the RROD.
So I guess Ps4 and Xbox 720 kill people upon power up?
Various high ups at Sony have said multiple times, and it has to be said, the console shell is probably the most unimportant part of any reveal... practically speaking, they could probably release a big ass box with good air flow and as long as the components fit together you'd have your PS4. They already said we would see it at E3, too, and that they need to 'save things to reveal' so that they have a big show alongside their competitors.
So not only did they hold back the case design, but they held back game announcements (SquareEnix: 'please await E3' and others) and all sorts of minutiae related to the system. They have stated it is because they want the info release to be staggered over the course of the various trade shows and events coming up prior to the consoles release.
Thanks for pointing out you have no clue, we can now safely ignore you.
shinra-bansho
Member
This thread.
Ninja Moomin
Banned
Just wow at this thread.
It really is 2006 all over again.
The only difference is that Sony have shown their hand first, not MS.
Lets put things into perspective:
People said Xbox 1 would fail (it sold more than Nintendo's console)
Xbox live was going to be be neat but Sony would beat it (they still don't have feature parity on the home system to this day)
Xbox 360 would be Xbox 1.5
Xbox 360 would never keep up with PS3
Xbox 360 would die as soon as PS3 hit the market
Kinect wouldn't work
Kinect wouldn't sell
Microsoft have had the top selling console for nearly two years straight in what is the world's most important video games market... and they have done this without having the most powerful tech on the shelf.
They haven't help themselves by letting rumours run riot... but it is just dumb to assume they are blind to the market and what Sony are doing.
Lets reserve judgement until we've seen both reveals and the games have been in people's hands at E3.
All MS have to do is bring a good halo, call of duty and some new IP exclusives (like respawn's game) along with tried and tested stuff and kinect and they will have a great mix before we even talk about the wider entertainment experience.
I just think we should sit back wait for them to show their hand, until we have the news from the horses mouth, then we don't know what's in the box for sure. The rumours are worrying but they are just rumours. MS has proved they aren't dumb - they've gone from also-ran to first in the USA.
I would like to know why everyone assumes Sony went first because they wanted to... what if they went first because they know what's coming?
I got called a Sony fanboy the other day so no doubt I'll get called an Xbox one now
It really is 2006 all over again.
The only difference is that Sony have shown their hand first, not MS.
Lets put things into perspective:
People said Xbox 1 would fail (it sold more than Nintendo's console)
Xbox live was going to be be neat but Sony would beat it (they still don't have feature parity on the home system to this day)
Xbox 360 would be Xbox 1.5
Xbox 360 would never keep up with PS3
Xbox 360 would die as soon as PS3 hit the market
Kinect wouldn't work
Kinect wouldn't sell
Microsoft have had the top selling console for nearly two years straight in what is the world's most important video games market... and they have done this without having the most powerful tech on the shelf.
They haven't help themselves by letting rumours run riot... but it is just dumb to assume they are blind to the market and what Sony are doing.
Lets reserve judgement until we've seen both reveals and the games have been in people's hands at E3.
All MS have to do is bring a good halo, call of duty and some new IP exclusives (like respawn's game) along with tried and tested stuff and kinect and they will have a great mix before we even talk about the wider entertainment experience.
I just think we should sit back wait for them to show their hand, until we have the news from the horses mouth, then we don't know what's in the box for sure. The rumours are worrying but they are just rumours. MS has proved they aren't dumb - they've gone from also-ran to first in the USA.
I would like to know why everyone assumes Sony went first because they wanted to... what if they went first because they know what's coming?
I got called a Sony fanboy the other day so no doubt I'll get called an Xbox one now
NewEgg. That RAM is dirt cheap now! They just grabbed it and mashed it in the slot. Upgraded!
I would say it's nicer to be in a situation where you have reliable teams of a known quantity turning their attention to a new system. A large swathe of MS's dev teams are relatively new. I would say that's the difference - it's harder to predict the outcome with relatively new teams.
The rumour is that Microsoft has had problems with internal development and has cancelled a number of projects and is reaching out externally to pump up their exclusives offering. I don't think this has nothing to do with how they've managed their studios over the course of the prior generation and the relative newness of many of their teams.
pieatorium
Member
I think the character was originally intended to be serious but has now devolved into a self parody so I'm not sure anymore.
Quinton McLeod
Banned
You see, I like responding to replies like this with no substance. Because what I just said went over your head.
GDDR5 has slow access times. It can push out a ton of data at once, which is good for video cards since they're parallel in nature. An OOO processor doesn't work in this matter. If there is data that needs to get fetched, it doesn't grab all the data at the front of the line, it goes where ever it thinks that data is and fetches it. This means that the processor could grab 50 million little things extremely fast. GDDR5 can't do this very quickly. Hence, the bottle neck.
SneakyStephan
Banned
Epic meltdown from quinton haha
This is an MS thread not a sony one. If you want to bash jaguar do it in a Sony thread?
(though I agree jaguar is a piddly cpu, but MS is bottlenecked by it just the same)
Anyways, I don't like MS moneyhatting games away from other platforms, that's a loss for the consumer.
Is next gen going to be 'MS has no game?'
This is an MS thread not a sony one. If you want to bash jaguar do it in a Sony thread? (though I agree jaguar is a piddly cpu, but MS is bottlenecked by it just the same)
Anyways, I don't like MS moneyhatting games away from other platforms, that's a loss for the consumer.
Is next gen going to be 'MS has no game?'
i don't know if half of the last page is serious. too much dismissal going on without proper arguments to back it up.
Please, please show me the average numbers you have for access times between GDDR5 and DDR3, and also show me what this has to do with OOOe
you implied in your previous post that a in-order processor would be better off then a OOOe processor in this case. So proof for that too would be nice.
mysteriousmage09
Member
Just. Stop.
Boy... just accept that the WiiU is underpowered compared to the PS4. It will surely get good (looking) games but your pseudo tech-savvy gibberish is just nonsense.
3. Why is an OOO CPU handicapped by GDDR5 Ram? Sure the latency is larger but the cores will still perform better than In-Order CPUs thanks to larger recorder buffers.
4. You are implying that devs will simply brute-force data into the CPU which will be not the case. They're not dumb.
This thread.
yup. some interesting rumours backed up by some semi-respected gaffers (no one on gaf gets actual respect by everyone, not even evilore); and some really great console warrior standup comedy...great fun. My personal fav, although it could have been satirical poetry, was the "sony is an angel. rise rise rise" riff. That dude needs that as a subtitle under his nom de plume.
maverick40
Junior Member
Haha yeah that comment was gold.
Well to be fair you didn't actually explain what you meant until the post I've quoted. I think you just said "it's a bottleneck".
As for your explanation, I'm not qualified to comment on it. But I do know there has been an awful lot of positivity both about the type of memory and it's volume.
I actually agree with him.
You see, bottle necks doesn't equal GDDR5 ram. On the contrary, eram and floppy disks create this bottle neck. If you fetch two memories from either the Fbus or northbridge, you get what in the industry we call, bottle neck. If you don't bottle neck, you bottle neck.
Bottle neck.
Best rumour yet: Next gen sees the return of floppy disks in ziplok bags.
No ZipDisks? Eff that. Pre-order Cancelled.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
There's definitely a difference, all I'm saying is that the end results are rather similar, and I remain unconvinced that Microsoft didn't start thinking about the next generation in time, when it comes to the makeup of Microsoft Studios. In fact, I'd say they played all the right notes after the closures that happened relatively early in the generation, under a different management.
Furthermore, I don't think that Microsoft is reaching out to third parties only now, I think they always planned going hard with exclusive content at the start of the next generation, both first and third party published.
I also find it a bit silly talking about all this when we don't even know which studios' projects have been canceled, how many of them (if any), and why.
Ardenyal
Member
To replicate this scene you need LOTS of bottle necks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=FiYSypwl2CU#t=408s
You guys....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=FiYSypwl2CU#t=408s
You guys....
It works in what exactly? Yeah it's basically 2006 again, but this time MS play the past sony role.
Leave the computer for a while, honestly.
1. They have been more specific with the actual technical details than any console launch I've ever seen, and I'm kinda old now. They seem more ready than I've ever seen. You talking about the box like it's a big deal is just grasping for straws.
2. There were playable demos - Killzone was there. And it was also playable on Fallon. Again, this is MORE THAN USUAL for a console launch.
3-4. Wat.
pieatorium
Member
Dance Central and Just Dance
TacticalFox88
Banned
Quinton is either the most brilliant troll in years or completely delusional.
Ninja Moomin
Banned
You think they designed the camera and controller without designing the console case?
LOL.
That's not how product design works. You can see the same subtle references across the camera and the controller (textures, a dot motif), the case is designed (parts MUST be being made now in order to have quantity for a large scale launch).
They know what it looks like, they just chose not to show it.
Melchiah
Member
Why not, if they've been in collaboration before, with Sony funding and publishing their games, sometimes co-developing like Journey, and found it to be working well. Hardly the same as to go shopping for a game, that's already been long in development, and would have been a multiplatform release otherwise.
Quinton McLeod
Banned
1) I never debated this fact.
2) First, lets make a comparison. I'm going to use Dr. Tre's example since it's the easiest to follow. So, lets say DDR3 is a small pick up truck and you're driving it on the highway. If you miss an exit, there's no worries because another exit is 3 blocks away. Now, for GDDR5, you have a large Uhaul truck and you're driving it on the highway. If you miss an exit, the next exit isn't for another 5 miles.
The point being, GDDR5 can carry a huge load of data, but it takes time for it to access that data. An OOO CPU wouldn't benefit from GDDR5 because it'll constantly be waiting for the GDDR5 to access the data it needs. Thus, if the CPU has instructions it wishes to run out of order and lets say a few of those instructions query the RAM, its gonna have to wait. The waiting is the bottleneck.
3) Who cares? My point is that the console was rushed.
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
I'm in that weird part of GAF again...
grimshawish
Banned
Quinton actually makes a lot of fair points.
No console used/shown and few games at the show.
Bottleneck isn't the case but 8GB is maybe inefficient.
No console used/shown and few games at the show.
Bottleneck isn't the case but 8GB is maybe inefficient.
Wow, we have a new Carmack here. I never heard a single developer to say something negative about ps4 hardware until now.
Maximilian Kolbe
Member
Wait,i don't understand what is this thread about anymore
Can't say I'm surprised unlike Sony, MS have been getting rid of their first parties instead of stockpiling them, no surprise they would be relying on 3rd parties to provide games for their new console.
It could end badly if they aren't careful, the upcoming conference is looking more and more interesting by the minute.
It could end badly if they aren't careful, the upcoming conference is looking more and more interesting by the minute.
It seems you've made some conclusions based on (to me at least) very little.
If we're drawing conclusions based on very little when would have Sony/MS planned to release their next gen consoles if the WiiU hadn't forced them to rush?
I thought there were enough games. But, clearly, they weren't demoed in a "look at this box... and this wire plugged into it... leading to a controller..." It strikes me that would've been a bit unusual but I can see why folk would want that.
I genuinely don't see the concern about the actual box. Hmm. I swear I saw something from some Sony bigwig talking about holding something about the physicality of the console back for E3. Of course that seems like my mind's playing tricks on me cos it fits this discussion point very well!