Ice cold.
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Star Trek into Darkness |OT| Not very tired at all
- Thread starter The Librarian
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Ice cold.
Sorry, didn't mean it to be, I just thought it was rather dumb in lots of spots.
You have experienced Star Trek before right?
If there was not some level of "what the fuck?" it would break the tradition of the USS Make Shit Up.
You understand this going in and you are far freer to enjoy the ride and appreciate the rest.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
I thought it was a ridiculous movie that had a few big action set pieces strung together with a plot that barely made sense.
None of the characters have changed at all from the end of the 2009 Star Trek movie and no character development occurs within the movie itself.
All in all a largely pointless and borderline insulting movie.
GTFO with that shit. I literally face palmed when it happened.
The Kirk/Spock sacrifice was put in there as a completely pointless reference to the wrath of khan. We all know he's not going to die so having it in there is meaningless and only helps to set up the Spock/Khan confrontation... which again is pointless because there is nothing of importance on the line for any of the characters.
None of the characters have changed at all from the end of the 2009 Star Trek movie and no character development occurs within the movie itself.
All in all a largely pointless and borderline insulting movie.
Also, the Khan scream?
obin_gam
Member
I though he did very well with that. The emotions came through while not being cheesy or parody-like.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
It was embarrassing because the ham fisted display of emotions seemed completely forced. I didn't buy it at all.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Saw it last night and thoroughly enjoyed it. Can't wait to watch it again. It felt like a true Star Trek Movie.
I understand that this is a post convert 3D movie. They did a good job.
I understand that this is a post convert 3D movie. They did a good job.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
Thinking about it a little bit more: The differences between
and this movie give a good indication of how dumb this one really is, for instance
The Wrath of Khan
in The Wrath of Khan the Kirk/Khan confrontation is almost treated like a chess game with Kirk coming out as the victor after exploiting a tactical advantage - but Khan still gains a victory with Spock's death. But in this one Kirk gets beaten to a pulp and Spock gets into a fist fight with Khan (and Kirk still lives). That says it all really.
I concurr, just saw the movie and although I enjoyed it I would have prefered for it to do its own thing instead of borrowing from the old ones.
Also the
death scene was done way better in wrath of khan, there was a sense of despair and sad emotions that this one did not managed to emulate.
Other than that I liked it.
Joel Was Right
Member
Source? Or is this something you've come the conclusion of after seeing various evidence?
Presumably because Paramount feel the rabid Trek fanbase can ensure the longevity of a new franchise
The Librarian
Banned
Watched ST09 again to prepare for STiD. It's fun to look at, and some of the jokes work really well, and I really like Scotty's little...friend...thing...but the movie is irrevocably dumb when it comes to the plot. The moment you provide any ounce of thought, it falls apart, and the movie seems to contradict itself every few scenes. My favorite during this watch is Prime Spock saying "Under no circumstances must be made aware of my existence," then he meets his younger self at the end of the film.
I don't know about that, since when are Star Trek movies CGI actionfest rollercoasters?
This movie is crazier than the first one.The 3D was really good though. It's getting to the point where if I didn't know any better I might have not noticed this was a conversion.
It has been in the prologue to the film when Nero attacks, "Then ask Captain Nero what gives him the right to attack a Federation vessel."
Pike mentions it too, "You understand what the Federation is, don't you? It's important. It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada..."
Shorty11857
Member
Just saw the movie and really enjoyed it but god
I hate how fast every ship is in Abram's universe, and how no planet has defenses. You could literally warp to Earth and blow the whole planet up while someone is in the bathroom
I hate how fast every ship is in Abram's universe, and how no planet has defenses. You could literally warp to Earth and blow the whole planet up while someone is in the bathroom
SteveWinwood
Member
Oh goddammit I kept seeing this thread and peoples thoughts and figured it was out already in NA. Was going to go today. Mothers day ruined 
my mom really wanted to go.
Fuck you movie distributors.
my mom really wanted to go.Fuck you movie distributors.
Did you watch Spock Prime's discussion with the younger Spockl? He claimed he lied to Kirk on purpose to push him to be the leader and form his bond with younger Spock rather than going back with him and making younger spock and kirk work together, they have to do it themselves.
The Librarian
Banned
Oh. Maybe I was too distracted trying to figure out how an explosion helps you escape from a black hole, or why Checkhov could transport Kirk and Sulu while falling but not Spock's mother.
Well he had a couple of minutes with Kirk and Spock, while Spock's mom's fall was much much shorter.
The Librarian
Banned
But they were falling faster than Spock's mother, so it should've been easier.
Yeah but they were falling at terminal velocity which as a constant over a period of a few minutes seems like it would be easier to compensate than a short fall of maybe 5 seconds?
Well that wasn't a plot hole, he actively explains that motivation to younger Spock. One of the better scenes too. About how it was logical to lie, classic Spock material.
And Chekov couldn't transport her because she was moving, they explained that as well that beaming was difficult at Vulcan due to the red matter. It made it much harder to lock onto signals. Kirk and Sulu were in motion for a while at a constant rate, he would have predicted where they would be based on their rate of fall. Chekov is a science genius, 17 and a full ensign he'd be able to calculate that. Remember he couldn't lock on right away? He even talked about calculating their location as they fell. It took a while for him to lock onto them. He clearly didn't have time to lock onto Amanda going by the same logic.
You are looking for plot holes where there are none.
The Librarian
Banned
They were also moving around a lot more than her in the air, and the movie never makes it clear how long Spock's mother fell. Also, before they arrived at Vulcan, Pike orders the shields up, yet some of the Enterprise's hull scraps off another ship. And when Nero fires on the Enterprise, their shields are nowhere to be found.
In watched it too and yes that scene made no sense. They just hand wave it away in the last scene in favor of fan service. Hilarious
The Librarian
Banned
Also, I laughed out loud when Nero tells Spock it was a mistake to let him live moments after he stopped choking Kirk, leaving him alive. What a moron.
They were basically hugging while falling at a constant velocity. They weren't moving around that much. Spock's mom's fall didn't give Chekov enough time to compensate. I feel that was very clear.
And then shields thing is annoying but it goes all the way back to DS9 when they decided that showing shields in space battles was not cinematic for whatever reason.
Nero is a stupid villain in general.
Pike also soon as they arrived and saw the debris ordered all auxiliary power from the nacelles be averted to the forward shields. Wasn't the scraping on the nacelle?
The Librarian
Banned
You're forgetting wind. They aren't just falling in a straight line. And about DS9, there's nothing comparable to what I just said. You can rationalize all the ships that don't have shields as those ships who were drained then got destroyed. The Enterprise has full shields then they get hit.
StopMakingSense
Member
I'm pretty sure she instantly died / had only a couple seconds to live as she fell with collapsing rock.
The Librarian
Banned
I don't remember, but if that's the case that's some dumb technology.
I feel like you're just trolling me now.
You can't rationalize that Chekov could calculate Kirk and Sulu's trajectory over a period of several minutes while falling at a constant velocity, but you can rationalize that in every single battle in the last season of DS9 no ship ever has any shields up?
I mean look at the battle to retake DS9
Sisko sends a bunch of fighters to randomly attack the enemy fleet to piss them off. A handful of fighters entirely bypassing the shields of Galor class cruisers? Really? Then throughout the entire battle, not a single shield to be seen?
The Librarian
Banned
I just checked the movie, and he didn't say that.
The Librarian
Banned
You're misunderstanding me. I can't rationalize why Checkhov could beam up Kirk and Sulu but not Spock's mother.
And I've always complained about the lack of shields in DS9's battles, FYI. It's just that in most cases I want to believe they're only showing us ships whose shields have been drained.
So you are willing to come up with your own explanations to explain away plot holes in DS9 but won't try to rationalize similar things in Trek '09?
In the end t's always best to remember the famous MST3K statement when encountering a plot hole in the actual theme song "It's just a tv show[or a movie in this case as well], you should really just relax.". It's Trek. Mass entertainment for the masses, not some art house work meant to showcase a auteur. Just enjoy the spectacle. Both in the films and the show. It's just a show/movie, not a way of life or religion after all.
The Librarian
Banned
How are those plot holes? And how can I rationalize away a ship with its shields up and debris still hitting the ship's hull within a matter of seconds? Where is the room there? And DS9 always made sure to show the Defiant's shields.
Joel Was Right
Member
I believe Pike's comment was in reference to Starfleet
The Librarian
Banned
Please, Cheebs. So I can only apply critical thought under certain circumstances? Okay! Look, man, it's not my fault that ST09's plot doesn't hold up to the slightest bit of scrutiny when you apply an ounce of thought to it. I can suspend my disbelief and forgive a few plot holes, but ST09, as I said before, contradicts itself between every few scenes. It breaks its own rules.
Oh, and just so you know I DO rationalize stuff for ST09 just like any other Trek. For example, when Prime Spock gave Scotty the equations for transwarp transporting, at first I thought that was a plot hole because I don't remember Scotty ever coming up with such a thing. But then I remembered that he survived until TNG's era and a set number of years beyond, so maybe he figured that out before he died. I filled in for the movie there.
Okay let me try rationalizing this for you.
Situation A where Kirk and Sulu are falling:
The average terminal velocity for a human is around 180kph on earth. We can probably assume it's similar on Vulcan considering we are perfectly capable of breathing the air there. Thus, even from a height of 12 km (the average altitude of a commerical jet, which they were falling from much higher than) It would take 4 minutes to reach the ground. It took Chekov literally ALL of that time to compensate and get the transporter lock.
In situation B where Spock's mom falls, the transporter was already in the process of beaming when she fell right after Chekov specifically said "don't move!" When she fell this caught Chekov off guard and he didn't have anywhere near 4 minutes to compensate for her falling. Plus she was you know, falling into a black hole so that couldn't have helped.
Isn't that worse? That the Defiant and DS9 are the only ships/stations in the alpha quadrant with shields? Plus it wasn't just debris, it was the entire saucer section of a ship even larger than the Enterprise. That being said, I think it was dumb too. I didn't like the lack of shields in DS9 and I didn't like it in ST09 either, but I understand that it's a cosmetic decision and I moved on.
The Librarian
Banned
For one, in situation A, Chekhov wasn't at the controls for four minutes, as he had to rush down to the transporter room and take over. And as I said, they weren't falling in a straight line. There's wind that would push them this way and that. It's a lot easier to transport Spock's mother than those circumstances. You can calculate the acceleration of a planet's gravity, and you wouldn't have to deal with harsh wind at the altitude Spock's mother was in.
I don't understand how any of these points matter. No where in the show did the Defiant raise its shields only to be hit by some debris through its shields. It doesn't make any sense for that to happen. When DS9 wanted to show shields, it did. When assaulting Chin'toka, you can clearly see the automated turrets have shields when the ships fire upon them.
And that's only a couple of plotholes I've named. There are lots of them. Like the supernova reaching Romulus almost instantly, Nero not doing anything for twenty-five years, Nero knowing when and where Spock would show up, to name a few more.
I don't understand how you can be like "there's wind" but ignore the fact that in the second scenario there's a goddamn black hole beneath them.
Because it's ridiculous to selectively choose which ships have shields and which don't? Especially in the same battle? Why does a Romulan warbird, one of the most impressive ships of that era, get dissolved by a single phaser by one of these turrets as if they didn't have any shielding at all, but these turrets and the shield generator itself have them?
The Librarian
Banned
Because the black hole is separated by miles of rock? All I'm saying is that, from my perspective, they're both equally difficult circumstances. If you can escape a black hole with an explosion, I don't see why you couldn't teleport a person away that's separated from one by miles of rock.
Because the Warbird's shields were already drained and the episode only showed what happened after its shields went down. I have no idea what point you're trying to make. I already said it was dumb in DS9, but can be rationalized as I have done. I'm applying the same standards to both forms of mediums. What more do you want?
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