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[gofreak]

Searched...clone if old:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/science/human-embryo-clones-produced-to-yield-stem-cells-1.1394629

The cloning method used to produce Dolly the sheep has been revamped making it possible to produce large numbers of human embryonic stem cells. It advances the promise of personalised medicine where a patient’s own cells can be used to produce replacement tissues of any kind with a perfect match and no possibility of rejection.

For years scientists had sought a way to produce cloned human embryos and stem cells using the technique used to produce Dolly 18 years ago. The method, somatic cell nuclear transfer, worked in other species but not in humans until a team based at the Oregon Health and Science University found a way to achieve this.

Ultimately it came down to something as unexpected as using caffeine to help make the method work, the scientists write today in the journal Cell.

The cell transfer method used for Dolly involved taking DNA from an egg cell and replacing it with donor DNA. The original research team at the Roslin Institute in Edinburgh found that applying a little electric shock would make the egg and donor DNA fuse and begin to grow, but they used up hundreds of sheep egg cells before producing Dolly.

Use of human eggs did not work and it was impossible to consider using hundreds of eggs in the hope of success. Research advances made since Dolly helped them refine the process however.

They used an adult skin cell as donor DNA and attached this to the hollowed-out egg. The researchers were able to gain control over exactly when the donor DNA and egg cell fused by adding a small amount of caffeine to the liquid where the egg was kept.

They used up only two eggs to deliver cloned embryos that produced stem cells indistinguishable from those taken from a naturally fertilised egg, the researchers said.

These cells are in a pluripotent state which means they can convert into any of the 200 or so cell types in the body. The goal is to use them to provide tissue transplant material to help treat brain disorders, damage caused by cardiovascular disease and as other replacement tissues

 

[CharlieDigital]

I see nothing wrong with this.

Maybe it's perspective.

Wife and I underwent in vitro fertilization and every round we did, we had to destroy a handful of embryos.

Even naturally, some estimates are as high as 30% in terms of the number of fertilized embryos that either miscarry or fail to attach to a woman's uterus.

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

There might be a slippery slope argument to be made but the cells are undifferentiated, I have no problem with it at this stage.

 

[DC R1D3R]

I wonder what else they're cooking up?

 

[Wilsongt]

Oh look, more breaththrough technology with stem cells that won't be able to be done in the US.

 

[Subtle]

This is pretty great!

 

[Charoncaori]

If I was allowed to donate eggs for stem cell research in the us I would.

 

[SolsticeZero]

.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Oh look, more breaththrough technology with stem cells that won't be able to be done in the US.

Um, looks like the breakthrough was done in Oregon?

 

[Charoncaori]

Um, looks like the breakthrough was done in Oregon?

So what's the state if the ban on ceremony cell research in the us currently? I was under the impression that it was still mostly banned but between this and the spray-on skin graft I heard about a few months ago,it seems like limited research is still being done in the country. Can anyone clarify?

 

[Freezie KO]

Sounds good to me! Let's get curin' diseases and shit.

 

[Dany]

I feel Iike Obama lifted the ban on the # of stem cells that can be researched here.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

Nice!
I hope this stuff will be available for the mass market by the time I could use some fresh organs or curing.

 

[Kinyou]

Does this really change much from an ethical point of view?

 

[SkyOdin]

Does this really change much from an ethical point of view?

Not really. A clone is still a human being.

I find this development to be kinda disturbing, myself. This is quite literally the mass production of human beings to chop them up for parts. I can't really support it.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

Does this really change much from an ethical point of view?

It's dependent on how you view a human embryo. If you don't think it has some value simply for being a human embryo, then it shouldn't be a problem. If you do think it is valuable, things get trickier.
But even if you do think it has some intrinsic value, you're still only destroying it so that humans with hopes, dreams, and lives will get healthier.

Still, I understand those who would not want to benefit from this, and that's their decision.

 

[highrider]

There might be a slippery slope argument to be made but the cells are undifferentiated, I have no problem with it at this stage.

Well said sir.

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

Not really. A clone is still a human being.

I find this development to be kinda disturbing, myself. This is quite literally the mass production of human beings to chop them up for parts.

Not unless you think an undifferentiated cell constitutes a human being.

 

[Prezhulio]

Not really. A clone is still a human being.

I find this development to be kinda disturbing, myself. This is quite literally the mass production of human beings to chop them up for parts. I can't really support it.

except that, ya know, it's not.

 

[Brian Griffin]

Awesome news!

 

[GoldenEye 007]

So what's the state if the ban on ceremony cell research in the us currently? I was under the impression that it was still mostly banned but between this and the spray-on skin graft I heard about a few months ago,it seems like limited research is still being done in the country. Can anyone clarify?

I just think federal funding does not happen. Research entities aren't barred from getting funding from other areas, though.

 

[Orbis]

Not really. A clone is still a human being.

I find this development to be kinda disturbing, myself. This is quite literally the mass production of human beings to chop them up for parts. I can't really support it.

You make it sound like these embryos will grow into babies and then cut up for parts.

 

[-COOLIO-]

awesome!

 

[Demon Ice]

Not really. A clone is still a human being.

I find this development to be kinda disturbing, myself. This is quite literally the mass production of human beings to chop them up for parts. I can't really support it.

These are not viable embryos. They are not being chopped up for parts. Read the OP again.

 

[Devolution]

They banned the use of embryos for stem cell research but people can dispose of dozens in the IvF process. lol America.

 

[SJRB]

Amazing progress that will hopefully one day be used to its fullest potential.

 

[Demon Ice]

They banned the use embryos for stem cell research but people can dispose of dozens in the IvF process. lol America.

Gotta love that knee-jerk religious objection to anything remotely resembling major scientific progress.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

They banned the use of embryos for stem cell research but people can dispose of dozens in the IvF process. lol America.

Is it outright banned or banned from federal funding? I could be mistaken myself I guess.

 

[Wilsongt]

Not really. A clone is still a human being.

I find this development to be kinda disturbing, myself. This is quite literally the mass production of human beings to chop them up for parts. I can't really support it.

Except... Not.

Since they are using somatic tissue, does that make the cells 4x, or would they still be 2x?

 

[DietRob]

So somebody spilled their red bull on the petri dish and now we have a breakthrough.

Science fuck yea!

 

[Avixph]

I wonder what else they're cooking up?

 

[Lesath]

So what's the state if the ban on ceremony cell research in the us currently? I was under the impression that it was still mostly banned but between this and the spray-on skin graft I heard about a few months ago,it seems like limited research is still being done in the country. Can anyone clarify?

No federal funding, but that doesn't necessarily prevent state or private funding. For example, California has CIRM.

As far as cell lines go, we can use existing cell lines, but are prohibited from creating newer lines. This really sucks, because there are outstanding issues with existing lines, and many researchers have turned their eyes towards induced pluripotent stem cells.

 

[Devolution]

Is it outright banned or banned from federal funding? I could be mistaken myself I guess.

Can't grow any I believe, have to use existing stuff.

 

[Ran rp]

This is quite literally the mass production of human beings to chop them up for parts.

No, it's not.

 

[DC R1D3R]

You know what, I wouldn't even be surprised mate.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

Not really. A clone is still a human being.

I find this development to be kinda disturbing, myself. This is quite literally the mass production of human beings to chop them up for parts. I can't really support it.

Will you support it now that you know you are wrong?

 

[Avixph]

Is it just me or is the world becoming more cyberpunk.

 

[SkyOdin]

Will you support it now that you know you are wrong?

If it was a clear cut issue with a straight-forward answer, then there wouldn't be a huge ethical controversy over the practice. In any case, the fact that the cells are cloned doesn't change any facet of the controversy, since a cloned human embryo is still a human embryo.

I am actually more afraid of the possibility that people will change their minds on this issue because embryo was cloned from an adult cell, since that could negatively affect the rights of human clones when they are eventually created. The de-humanization of something human is, and always should be, troubling.

There is nothing wrong about science being held back by ethical concerns. Ethical concerns are commonplace in all branches of science, be it psychological testing, drug testing, and so on. Just because something can potentially have benefit doesn't give science a free reign to ignore ethical and moral issues. Ignoring them opens the door to harm.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

If it was a clear cut issue with a straight-forward answer, then there wouldn't be a huge ethical controversy over the practice. In any case, the fact that the cells are cloned doesn't change any facet of the controversy, since a cloned human embryo is still a human embryo.

I am actually more afraid of the possibility that people will change their minds on this issue because embryo was cloned from an adult cell, since that could negatively affect the rights of human clones when they are eventually created. The de-humanization of something human is, and always should be, troubling.

There is nothing wrong about science being held back by ethical concerns. Ethical concerns are commonplace in all branches of science, be it psychological testing, drug testing, and so on. Just because something can potentially have benefit doesn't give science a free reign to ignore ethical and moral issues. Ignoring them opens the door to harm.

Why would actual human clone have any less rights than non-cloned humans because a cloned embryo is turned into stem cells just as non-cloned embryos are also occasionally turned into stem cells?

The cloned embryos aren't being grown into adulthood, and then "chopped up" for organs a la "The Island".

 

[DC R1D3R]

Is it just me or is the world becoming more cyberpunk.

yes but not quite the neo-tokyo cyberpunk I imagined :[

 

[Avixph]

yes but not quite the neo-tokyo cyberpunk I imagined :[

More metal gear or Gattaca then anything really.

 

[Not Spaceghost]

You know this is a bit of a side tangent but cloning people into full grown adults is a legal nightmare.

Even though the clone might be a completely different person in their personality technically they're the same person as their base human, and even among identical twins I don't think that genetically they would appear 1:1 like a clone would.

So I don't think it would be legal for two of the same person to exist, or hell if they could it would make a messy situation if even without knowing each other the clone visits the town the original is in and commits a small crime like theft and the original catches the flak for it.

Therefore my totally irrational conclusion is that clones should never be considered humans.

 

[SkyOdin]

Why would actual human clone have any less rights than non-cloned humans because a cloned embryo is turned into stem cells just as non-cloned embryos are also occasionally turned into stem cells?

The cloned embryos aren't being grown into adulthood, and then "chopped up" for organs a la "The Island".

I am aware of what is being described by the article. However, the definition of when a human being is considered as such is a very controversial thing with no clear answers, and no societal consensus. I am inclined to consider a human embryo as a human being. I suppose I shall leave it at that.

 

[SkyOdin]

You know this is a bit of a side tangent but cloning people into full grown adults is a legal nightmare.

Even though the clone might be a completely different person in their personality technically they're the same person as their base human, and even among identical twins I don't think that genetically they would appear 1:1 like a clone would.

So I don't think it would be legal for two of the same person to exist, or hell if they could it would make a messy situation if even without knowing each other the clone visits the town the original is in and commits a small crime like theft and the original catches the flak for it.

Therefore my totally irrational conclusion is that clones should never be considered humans.

I am actually an identical twin, which is part of the reason for my interest in the topic. My brother and I are in fact 1:1 genetically identical, just as a clone would be. Identical twins start as a single cell that splits into two embryos early in development. Any developmental mutations that differentiate twins would also occur in a clone.

There are no particularly complicated legal issues to clones. They would just be people who happen to look like someone else.

 

[Wilsongt]

I am aware of what is being described by the article. However, the definition of when a human being is considered as such is a very controversial thing with no clear answers, and no societal consensus. I am inclined to consider a human embryo as a human being. I suppose I shall leave it at that.

It's technically not even an egg anymore, because there is no native DNA inside. DNA is donated to it and then the DNA is fused. It's somatic DNA. Last time I checked, somatic DNA could not a baby make.

 

[SkyOdin]

It's technically not even an egg anymore, because there is no native DNA inside. DNA is donated to it and then the DNA is fused. It's somatic DNA. Last time I checked, somatic DNA could not a baby make.

The article says that they are cloned human embryos that produced stem cells "indistinguishable from those taken from a naturally fertilized egg". From the wording in the article, it sounds like the embryo may be viable. Now, it is certainly possible that the article has been misleading. If that is the case, then that may change my opinions somewhat. An embryo that can never mature into a human being is a different issue, albeit one that doesn't completely dodge all of the ethical concerns.

 

[dvolovets]

You know this is a bit of a side tangent but cloning people into full grown adults is a legal nightmare.

Even though the clone might be a completely different person in their personality technically they're the same person as their base human, and even among identical twins I don't think that genetically they would appear 1:1 like a clone would.

So I don't think it would be legal for two of the same person to exist, or hell if they could it would make a messy situation if even without knowing each other the clone visits the town the original is in and commits a small crime like theft and the original catches the flak for it.

Therefore my totally irrational conclusion is that clones should never be considered humans.

Not quite. Even though they would be identical insofar as their underlying genome, their **epigenome**, which has been implicated in the differences observed between identical twins, would change depending on environmental conditions and interactions with others. It's more complex than simply having two of the same person.

 

[E-Cat]

Some researcher probably spilled his macchiato over the petri dish.

I'm always wary of these kinds of advances because of this guy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hwang_Woo-suk

A clone is still a human being.

Or in this case, a fertilized egg.

I find this development to be kinda disturbing, myself. This is quite literally the mass production of human beings to chop them up for parts. I can't really support it.

Let me guess, you're religious? You're entitled to your view, of course. But in 30 years, be sure not to sign up for that transplant organ made from your own DNA, lest you appear hypocritical.

 

[Jackben]

This is awesome. I don't really see any ethical concerns at this stage, it just seems like great science to me.

Some researcher probably spilled his macchiato over the petri dish.

I'm always wary of these kinds of advances because of this guy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hwang_Woo-suk

Or in this case, a fertilized egg.

lmao

 

[AstroZombie]