I'm going to go through the tutorials and a few regular games first, but after reading a couple reviews, this game sounds like it would be perfect for a GoT mod.
Simplest Grand Strategy game to get into the genre
- Thread starter loganclaws
- Start date
I'm going to go through the tutorials and a few regular games first, but after reading a couple reviews, this game sounds like it would be perfect for a GoT mod.
Admittedly not an expert on the Paradox offerings, but still kinda surprised there are no mentions of March of the Eagle.
I'm pretty sure that game is intended to be exactly what you are looking for - a good entry into the genre. I had some fun with it when i tried it at least.
I'm pretty sure that game is intended to be exactly what you are looking for - a good entry into the genre. I had some fun with it when i tried it at least.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Haven't had time to play it yet. Got it on sale. Its $10 at Amazon atm for anybody interested.
Stronghammer22
Member
I watched this Let's Play for CKII to actually understand what to do. It might take a couple of hours of viewing to get the pieces of information you need, but it's worth it. Be warned, the game is addictive once you get going. I've started it of a night with the intention of playing for an hour, then five hours later I'll be wondering what happened. lol.
I was about to say this. I noticed it was on sale recently, which brought it to my attention. To be honest, I didn't even know anything about the game before then and I'm guessing from the lack of people suggesting it here, it looks like they didn't either. From the reviews I have read, it sounds like a simpler CKII, focused more on combat. Thus, it probably would be a good entry point--as you say.
March of the Eagles was originally from Paradox France, who have since broken away to become AGEOD Games again. They make mostly combat focused games with less emphasis on diplomacy, economy etc. March of the Eagles is kinda a compromise game. It's focused on combat but without the same complexity that most AGEOD games usually have (such as emphasis on logistical organisation etc).
Not saying its a bad game at all, I quite like it, but it somewhat sits uneasily between two camps as not really being a Paradox or AGEOD title, which might explain why it doesn't really receive all that much recognition.
I agree though, as an introduction its a good choice.
Not saying its a bad game at all, I quite like it, but it somewhat sits uneasily between two camps as not really being a Paradox or AGEOD title, which might explain why it doesn't really receive all that much recognition.
I agree though, as an introduction its a good choice.
I lost days of my life to the CK2 demo by itself.
People who say Crusader Kings 2 are wrong. Way too much micro management of family interactions, politics and other annoying things. As a new player to the genre I found Victoria 2 vastly easier.
The family stuff in Crusader Kings makes declaring war much more complicated, and trying to remember who is related to who can do your head it.
Also need to worry about your characters stats, skills and making sure they have an heir on top of everything else.
The family stuff in Crusader Kings makes declaring war much more complicated, and trying to remember who is related to who can do your head it.
Also need to worry about your characters stats, skills and making sure they have an heir on top of everything else.
Fantastic game.
CrazedProfessional
Member
Yeah, get Victoria 2 and play as Spain or France,
Or China
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Worth noting that the built in tutorials for CKII are broken because they have changed the ui around but haven't updated the tutorials to work with it. You get to around part 4 before you can't progress.
Not that it matters because you're better off reading one the many community written guides anyway.
Not that it matters because you're better off reading one the many community written guides anyway.
AGEOD do. Check out Pride of Nations. It's not great, but an interesting take on the genre, and really cheap on Steam most of the time.
Well yes, it's still a good entry point in strategies. Don't you agree? I mean it's simple, it's fun, and it teaches some fundamentals.
Get CKII. It is confusing at first, but once everything clicks, you'll love it. You can play it as a grand strategy game where you try to build a massive empire, or you can play it as a roguelike where you put yourself into the worst situations and see how you can survive. It also has some of the best dynamic story telling in games. Usurpers, traitors, heretics, bastards, rival kings, scheming courtiers... this game is filled with a lot of unique characters that kind of develop their own story as you play.
Let me tell you the story of the first long campaign I played. I started off as King of Scotland. My main conquest was trying to fight over this one, small piece of land, which I lost before my character died. My grandson took over, and eventually conquered Ireland. I wanted England as well, and my legitimized bastard uncle (the bastard son of my first character), somehow had a claim on the kingdom of England. I launched a war to get England for my uncle. It was brutally tough, and I thought I might lose. The King of England died somehow, and his son took over. However, his son was even more aggressive. I tried to fight to a standstill, but eventually their king died in battle and their armies crumbled. My bastard uncle was declared king of England. Years later, he declares war on me to claim my territory. I defeated him, and became EMPEROR OF BRITANNIA.
This was just the first few decades. I didn't even mention later adventures such as holding Jerusalem, having my dynasty almost wiped out from a plague, having my heir imprisoned in Norway for years, having a character who reigned for three days before he died, assassinating my wife who fled after I cheated on her, watching Russia completely fall to the Mongols, dodging civil wars almost constantly from powerful vassals and scheming siblings.
If it gets too hard, I highly suggest you CHEAT. There are a lot of cheats in this game, which are good for figuring out how certain systems work or to just give you some breathing room.
Also there is a Game of Thrones mod that lets you play scenarios such as Aegon's Conquest, Robert's Rebellion, War of the Five Kings etc. YES THIS IS SECRETLY THE BEST GAME OF THRONES GAME.
Let me tell you the story of the first long campaign I played. I started off as King of Scotland. My main conquest was trying to fight over this one, small piece of land, which I lost before my character died. My grandson took over, and eventually conquered Ireland. I wanted England as well, and my legitimized bastard uncle (the bastard son of my first character), somehow had a claim on the kingdom of England. I launched a war to get England for my uncle. It was brutally tough, and I thought I might lose. The King of England died somehow, and his son took over. However, his son was even more aggressive. I tried to fight to a standstill, but eventually their king died in battle and their armies crumbled. My bastard uncle was declared king of England. Years later, he declares war on me to claim my territory. I defeated him, and became EMPEROR OF BRITANNIA.
This was just the first few decades. I didn't even mention later adventures such as holding Jerusalem, having my dynasty almost wiped out from a plague, having my heir imprisoned in Norway for years, having a character who reigned for three days before he died, assassinating my wife who fled after I cheated on her, watching Russia completely fall to the Mongols, dodging civil wars almost constantly from powerful vassals and scheming siblings.
If it gets too hard, I highly suggest you CHEAT. There are a lot of cheats in this game, which are good for figuring out how certain systems work or to just give you some breathing room.
Also there is a Game of Thrones mod that lets you play scenarios such as Aegon's Conquest, Robert's Rebellion, War of the Five Kings etc. YES THIS IS SECRETLY THE BEST GAME OF THRONES GAME.
I find China pretty tough at the start. You begin with the largest military in the world....but the cost of maintaining that military means you're losing shitloads of money.
PsychoSoldier
Banned
I don't know that any of the skills learned in Civ games are really transferable, though.
Grand Strategy games are really their own beast and hundreds of hours in Civ games didn't really prepare me for it.
And as to the question, I feel like CKII is a good entry point because you can have fun with it pretty fast IMO even when you don't know what you're doing. Plus, having it connected to a character makes it a bit easier to understand where as the level of abstraction in V2 and EUIII can be a bit difficult to wrap your mind around.
Of course, despite playing a ton of V2 and CKII I still have no clue what I'm doing in EUIII---I mean I sort of know how the mechanics work but I never feel like I have a good grasp on how to succeed in that game as opposed to the others.
Fragamemnon
Member
Not really. Civ 5 is just as approachable and a much, much better game if you want a strategy game, and on the simulation side CK2 or EU3 are pretty easy to get a hang of if you watch a few youtubes.
CivRev isn't bad, but I never saw the point of the game. Civ has always been super easy to play as a sandbox strategy game w/ little AI resistance if that's how you want to play it.
The development of player set goals and objectives on certain timetables are at the heart of both Paradox and Civ games. That fundamental aspect strategy spans both games.
I actually know from different boards that CivRev brought some new gamers into genre. I highly doubt Civ 5 did that.
You can't be serious, they are super easy if you want them to be super easy, playing on easiest settings. Even CivRev isn't super easy on higher difficulties it's just really simple comparing to other strategy games.
Also I do agree that CivRev may be wasn't the best suggestion if one would play Hearts of Iron right after it, simply I don't see any better.
I'd probably caution against starting with mods right off the bat
But the only reason (or main reason atleast) I want to buy CK2 on Steam is the game of thrones mod. Should I not bother? What are the opinions on the mod from people that have tried it?
toddhunter
Member
It is great and worth the price alone. As per above CK2 does have a lot of family interactions to keep track of. Having them all as characters you know about (assuming you are a fan) certainly helped me and is an ideal fit. That is of course, unless you play as wildlings who don't respect those fancy titles.
From memory there are like 7 scenarios now in the mod covering ancient times, the rebellion and even into the second book.
It is easily the best GoT game you can get and it is still getting better. However the catch is you still need a big investment in time before you know how to play. As such learning your way around vanilla first is still a good idea.
This might be the greatest comment on GAF ever.
Cool, the family interactions part is exactly why I want to play it with the mod as I think it'll make it easier for me to understand how things work. Going to buy it and watch that Let's Play posted earlier.
There's smaller ones around, but it's a niche sub-genre that pretty much only exists on PC so there's not much room for competition. Paradox locked it down when other developers were presumably abandoning the platform in 2005/7 and now they're pretty much the sole developer during this upswing.
EdwardTivrusky
Member
At the moment, yes. As SparkTR said, there are others around but they are difficult to find and usually end up published by Paradox who moved into the vacuum created by other devs moving out.
I like to have a look through the Matrix Games store as they have a large range of strategy games from all over the place.
I thought the Supreme Ruler titles were a good start point for grand strategy even though they are based on the HoI engine?
Frankfurter
Member
So I played a few hours CK2 here and there and I'm definitely far from having mastered it (actually, I'd say I barely know the basics) and I'm looking at Hearts of Iron because it appears to be more war/conquest based (is it?). Should I buy it or will this only result in me having no clue at all wth is going on? ^^
I've put about 20 hours into HoI3 and I still make "rookie" mistakes like having too many units in an area and getting a stacking penalty or sending my tanks into a mountain. :-/
I went into CK2 from EU3 and was able to learn and master the different systems quickly. If you want a good place to begin in CK2 I would recommend one of the Irish dukes. You can unify Ireland without outside interference and go on to conquer Scotland/England or wherever you choose.
If you really enjoy the organization of military corps and armies, then HoI3 might be for you. There is just so much more detail in the controlling of the military compared to CK2, Vicky2, or EU3 that I felt lost for quite a while.
loganclaws
Plane Escape Torment
So I decided to give Civ5 a try since I already own it on Steam. It seemed simple enough, I told myself I would play for 15 minutes before going to sleep and ended up playing for 2 hours last night! I never played a Civ game but it seems super fun, obviously I haven't even scratched the surface yet.
I REALLY want to play CK2 at some point later on though, I feel like it has much more opportunities for role playing and story telling.
I REALLY want to play CK2 at some point later on though, I feel like it has much more opportunities for role playing and story telling.
Hari Seldon
Member
March of Eagles is definitely the easiest Paradox game to get into.
It is somewhere in between EU3 and Hearts of Iron, but way easier than both. It is basically a light war game designed to be played multiplayer, but still fun single player. Very little building needs to be done, you basically just fight wars.
The great thing about Paradox games is that once you learn one, the skills transfer over to all others, even if you have to learn more/different mechanics.
It is somewhere in between EU3 and Hearts of Iron, but way easier than both. It is basically a light war game designed to be played multiplayer, but still fun single player. Very little building needs to be done, you basically just fight wars.
The great thing about Paradox games is that once you learn one, the skills transfer over to all others, even if you have to learn more/different mechanics.
Hari Seldon
Member
If you want a war game purchase:
March of Eagles -> easiest paradox game, newest interface, Napoleonic combat ($20). Lots of fun, might get boring after you play a game with each of the major powers (so like a legit 40-60 hours of play time lol). Definitely the smallest of all Paradox games in terms of scale.
Darkest Hour -> the definitive Hearts of Iron experience. IMO, far and away superior to Hearts of Iron 3 ($10) This is WW1 and WWII, with tons of alternate history mods. My favorite Paradox game of all time. Also way easier to get into than HoI3. I have probably like 300 hours in this game haha.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Didn't see it linked to in the thread, but this is pretty much the best starting/beginner guide for CK2 I think:
http://lparchive.org/Crusader-Kings-2/
Done by the same guy who did the EU3 LP linked earlier in the thread.
http://lparchive.org/Crusader-Kings-2/
Done by the same guy who did the EU3 LP linked earlier in the thread.
And now it seems it can't retrieve my product key period, so I can't play it. Neat. Hopefully Amazon can help me out.
CosmicQueso
Member
Thanks for the reco... just picked it up on Steam for $20. Will give it a shot.
SnakeswithLasers
Member
If Amazon doesn't, I bet Paradox would. They are a pretty customer-centric company.
Mgoblue201
Won't stop picking the right nation
If anyone needs help with either EU3 or CK2, you can PM me about it. I'd be happy to answer any questions or discuss strategies.
Bangbiscuit
Neo Member
Same here (CK2 that is, don't have much experience with EU3). Also check out Arumba's channel for a ton of let's plays.
http://www.youtube.com/user/arumba07/videos
Hari Seldon
Member
Let me know if you have any questions. March of Eagles is unique from other Paradox strategy games in that each country has goals, and if they are achieved, you win the game.
The combat appears simple, but is actually fairly complex. The usual war game mechanics apply, don't attack across rivers, don't attack a unit in the mountains, etc. However unlike something like Civ, there is also basic supply. So cutting off a unit from their supply severely weakens that unit. The quality of the troops, generals, the flank strategy, and the talent points also effect combat.
Also each country has slightly different unit types, or additional unit types. And each country has a different number of generals and different quality of generals. For example, France and Prussia have awesome generals, Spain has shit generals, England has average generals but has Lord Nelson who wrecks everything on the sea. This is balanced by say Spain, who has shit everything, having the easiest winning conditions.
Quill18s Crusader King 2 Castille campaign got me into the game.
His channel also has Vicky 2, EU3 and HOI3 campaigns. Oh and he has just added some EU4 previews.
His channel also has Vicky 2, EU3 and HOI3 campaigns. Oh and he has just added some EU4 previews.
If you're still now convinced about CK2, here's the trailer for the Old Gods DLC that came out yesterday. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Y53_GV2aAg8
BY THE MIGHT OF ODIN, I SHALL VANQUISH THE ROMAN IMPERIALISTS!
I desperately want both Victoria 2 and EU3 but too poor to afford it and have the worst luck on Steamgifts. Gotta wait for that summer sale!
BY THE MIGHT OF ODIN, I SHALL VANQUISH THE ROMAN IMPERIALISTS!
I desperately want both Victoria 2 and EU3 but too poor to afford it and have the worst luck on Steamgifts. Gotta wait for that summer sale!
bonesmccoy
Banned
OP, if you opt for CK2 - which I think you should - starting as the Duke of Meath or Linster makes for a relatively painless introduction to the game. Don't get tricked by the 'Difficulty' rating the game shows you; being the ruler of Leon is much harder than being the King of Ireland.
Speaking of that, I managed to make my Duke of Meath into the King of Ireland, but I forgot to modify the succession rules. When the king died, gavelkind kicked in, the kingdom broke up and everyone started warring against each other again. My character - the eldest and least popular son - was promptly attacked and imprisoned.
I started with HoI3. My first Grand Strategy game experience. For the life of me I couldn't figure out why Poland was kicking the crap out of my units.
Speaking of that, I managed to make my Duke of Meath into the King of Ireland, but I forgot to modify the succession rules. When the king died, gavelkind kicked in, the kingdom broke up and everyone started warring against each other again. My character - the eldest and least popular son - was promptly attacked and imprisoned.
I started with HoI3. My first Grand Strategy game experience. For the life of me I couldn't figure out why Poland was kicking the crap out of my units.
Goro Majima
Kitty Genovese Member
My advice is to pick the time period you most want to explore and just sit down and figure it out (also it may be anathema to some but cheat codes help when you're learning, I use them to screw around too).
Personally, I began with the original Hearts of Iron. Hearts of Iron 2 is very derivative of that game and can be figured out. If there was an easy way to get EU2, that might be a good start also.
Like others have said, HoI3 is crazy. I couldn't get into it because I dislike the sheer number of provinces and essentially relying on the AI to manage fronts. So for me, the HoI2 mod "Darkest Hour" is as good as it gets.
So basically start with your time period first then go from there.
Personally, I began with the original Hearts of Iron. Hearts of Iron 2 is very derivative of that game and can be figured out. If there was an easy way to get EU2, that might be a good start also.
Like others have said, HoI3 is crazy. I couldn't get into it because I dislike the sheer number of provinces and essentially relying on the AI to manage fronts. So for me, the HoI2 mod "Darkest Hour" is as good as it gets.
So basically start with your time period first then go from there.
Well, now I know what to buy during the steam summer sale.