Barack Lesnar
Banned
Mannnn you cocktease
Sony CEO Kaz Hirai: PS4 is first and foremost a game console
- Thread starter DieH@rd
- Start date
We'll join him in the sun if Sony goes with DRM as well. Be nice.You come in and make a snide post..
Oh.
Whaa, I think I can see most of Etobicoke from where I'm sitting right now (office).Etobicoke born and raised
Hahahaha!!!
What if it was 3 OS's but 1 Gig of RAM? What that have made a difference to you? Or 3Gigs and 1 OS?
This is dumb.
dragonbane
Member
Marty Chinn
Member
Sony had 1/4th the RAM and 1/7th of the SPUs dedicated to the OS of the PS3. Was it not a focused game machine? It didn't utilized a unified memory system and had it's RAM split between the PPU and GPU. Was it not a focused game machine?
Syphon Filter
Member
I'm pretty sure 1 gig of ram wont be enough for 3 os's. hypothetical answers is not what i'm looking for.
Yes. Non-gaming functions. Almost half the RAM is reserved for applications. That shoudl tell you all you need to know. (I can do word play too!).
Honest question, I knew the rumor about the core and memory usage, but when did news come about the 10% GPU usage? I really don't know what MS was thinking. They accomplished so much with 32MB of memory and a slice of performance for cores 1&2. This is just overkill.
Also while I agree that the usage is stupid high, the same could have been said for the ps3 this Gen.
Are you arguing for the sake of argument?
dragonbane
Member
This 3 OS thing is nonsense. One of them is a hypervisor, every console has it.
The PS3 has:
-Linux Kernel
-PS3 OS
-Hypervisor
XBox One has:
-Windows Kernel
-Xbox OS
-Hypervisor
Where's this discussion even heading? Xbone has 3GB reserved for OS and 5GB for games and PS4's unknown but it'll be less than Xbone's. Ergo objectively, PS4 will have the upper hand when it comes to giving devs more ram for game development.
Marty Chinn
Member
It'll actually be worse than now. It could be very much like the Xbox One, just not applied to all games.
Says who? Will it do all the things they want it to? Probably not. But if they wanted to fit 3 OS's under a Gig i'm sure they could.
What's your question?
That was poor design rather than building/designing a console from the ground up with set objectives like multi-tasking with Windows apps.
gaming_noob
Member
Awesome... Markham/Scarborough here but I walk through Etobicoke's vast trails every weekend.
Marty Chinn
Member
Sure it's poor design, but that's the point I'm getting at. Some of these can be chalked up to bad choices rather than making a claim of a lack of focus on games.
If trying to see things through his point of view
I know it's hard to follow our discussion because of all of the posts but he was saying that MS's main focus is not on games because of the amount of RAM that they reserved.
That's besides the point that's being argued.
Edit: For both, Marty and myself. He's making different but similar points than I am.
This.
Dont get comfortable, I can also see the Yellow pages building on Markham Rd
gaming_noob
Member
Dont get comfortable, I can also see the Yellow pages building on Markham Rd
Well then... I'm sorry I called you names a couple of months ago
Bro-fist!
Haha that's a whole different can of worms.
If judging by the ratio of parts reserved for non-gaming functions to gaming functions between Xbone and 360 then a more valid assertion would that gaming and multimedia (non-gaming) are almost equally focussed for next gen.
As such, I'd rather think of it in a more glass half full way where Xbone has 5GB DDR3+32MB ESRAM for games; the end.
Hilarious
Puppet Shadow
Member
You come in and make a snide post..
Oh.
Don't judge people by their avatars, they don't always mean as much as you think.
But we can make educated guesses between design by choice and poor design.
Anxious time brother, it happens. I'm sorry as wellWell then... I'm sorry I called you names a couple of months ago
Bro-fist!
Glorified G
Member
But we can make educated guesses between design by choice and poor design.
Anxious time brother, it happens. I'm sorry as well
Off topic:
Are you planning to get PS4 at launch with other gaffers from surrounding area?
If your trashing the Leafs... We totally deserve it, every time.
Depends on a whole lot of things like the DRM topic for example. If they do tick all the right tickboxes, then yeah launch day I'm standing in line at Eaton Center.
GeorgioCostanzaX
Member
Long term Microsoft may be able to win out the mainstream corded audience that's still into paying for cable (especially with subsidies and Cable provider partnerships) but I think Sony has a much better shot at winning over early adopters.
Marty Chinn
Member
Sure, and that's why I keep trying to point out the timeline of the RAM situation but some people want to ignore it and say what only matters is what the end result is. How is this not reasonable:
- Microsoft makes the decision of going with 8GB DDR3 RAM because they feel that more space will be effective and don't think GDDR5 will be cost efficient in time
- Leaks of Sony's devkit turn out that they're using 4GB of GDDR5 RAM
- Microsoft feels confident that they'll have the memory advantage at least in the capacity aspect and know that even with a higher reserved amount of memory, they'll still be ahead
- Sony surprises everyone with 8GB GDDR5 memory
- Microsoft caught off guard like every other developer
That is not even a bad decision, but a bad gamble that didn't pay off. Let's also keep in mind, you can never ask for more resources later, but you can always reduce the required footprint over time.
The Linux OS on PS3 is dual booted. The GameOS does not run on the Linux kernel.
The games are also not run in a VM.
IHaveCandy
Banned
1/4 of the RAM was not dedicated to the OS. The PS3's OS in-game did not take up 128 MBs.
The RAM split was a poor choice, but not a choice made for things outside of games. And the fact that the in-game OS used minimal CPU resources isn't anything surprising. I'm not arguing that the in-game OS shouldn't touch the hardware. I'm saying the amount the Xbox One is doing in order to do multi-tasking is a lot and a sign that games are not as big of a focus as before.
Depends on a whole lot of things like the DRM topic for example. If they do tick all the right tickboxes, then yeah launch day I'm standing in line at Eaton Center.
I'll be getting it regardless and wonder if Eaton Centre would be the best place at mid night given the fact that it's down town. A shiny new box may attract unwanted attention. But if you do, I'll like to invite others in TO for the occasion.
Depends on a whole lot of things like the DRM topic for example. If they do tick all the right tickboxes, then yeah launch day I'm standing in line at Eaton Center.
Best place is queens square
Best buy, GameStop and Walmart all right there within 30 second walking distance
I have had some epic football games waiting in line
Yeah, they said that about Nintendo too. They were wrong.
We'll never get another SNES that has pretty much every game worth playing.
Marty Chinn
Member
PS3 did have an obscene amount of memory in reserve for the OS. It was over 100MB if I recall. I'd have to dig out my old SDK docs to see if I can find the figure. It's no longer an issue, but it was a major pain in the ass when porting from 360 to PS3 in the early days. The point is they dedicated a ton of memory to it, and they reduced it over time. I expect a similar situation with the Xbox One because third parties are going to have issues otherwise.
RPGCrazied
Member
Hopefully this means no TV garbage. My cable box is fine enough, I don't need to watch TV on my "gaming" console. Sure I don't mind the Netflix or Youtube apps. Now just say no DRM and can play used games and I will buy your console.
this is simply not true.
PS3 has 100% resources dedicated to Gaming.
It is not multitasking anything. All of the PS3 is for gaming and gaming functions - as it does not multitask at all.
Completely agree with you here. My disagreement was that a poor design doesnt make it (PS3) any less of a gaming console compared to an approach that has diversified design objectives from the get-go. Sure some gambles didnt pay off but they only compounded things.
Ooh, another fellow Torontonian
We'll arrange something come launch day. Hopefully Sony pulls all the right stops.Sounds fun. Nothing better than launch crowd.
minus the scalpers :/
no it did not.... it was in 50's and reduced later.
But important part here is that all of it was for gaming... not for watching live tv.
Marty Chinn
Member
I'm a PS3/Xbox 360 developer who had a PS3 devkit before launch and had to deal with porting from the Xbox 360 to the PS3 for a PS3 launch title. It is true.
Raven77
Member
You somehow managed to completely miss the point of what both Kaz said and what I said.
I am not talking about DRM.
It is about the focus. I said:
"You have realized that their IS still a market for a dedicated games-first device"
Focus...having fantasy football and all the other things that, sure, some people love shows that GAMING is NOT the focus. I personally couldn't care less about that other stuff and feel many who game first and foremost couldn't also care less.
Hopefully I've made my point clearer for you.
Spooling13
Neo Member
A gaming console should first and foremost be able to play games, that is the number one priority, everything else is just a plus. Seems to me that Microsoft have it the other way round.
IHaveCandy
Banned
The 100MB was not for the in-game OS. The PS3 didn't even have an in-game OS initially. When they added it, all it could do was let you see your friends list and the XMB without being able to really do anything with it. I doubt that seriously took 100 MB.
dragonbane
Member
Nah this is true. Otherwise Ingame XMB wouldn't work at all.