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[Nameless]

It's not smoldering as he gives his speech. Those are normal smoke plumes from nearby fires. The place is just grim and depressing looking. It wasn't burning when he was knocked out, they put a bag on his head, it's burned when Bran and the others see it, and we start this season with a bag being taken off of Theon's head. If any of the ironborn burned Winterfell, it was not Theon that gave the command.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaU_VpMu0cE

Luwin gives us a rough idea of the time table since it couldn't have been more than a matter of hours between him getting speared by Theon's henchman and Bran finding him bleeding out. Sure, at the very latest the Iron Islanders burned it as they were moving out. My main point stands that there's no reason to believe another faction is to blame, at least not directly.

 

[Monsieur]

At the rate this show is going I doubt there will even be a happy ending to the series. Can you imagine if in one episode daenerys dies along with her dragons? I think that would cause an even bigger shit storm.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

At the rate this show is going I doubt there will even be a happy ending to the series. Can you imagine if in one episode daenerys dies along with her dragons? I think that would cause an even bigger shit storm.

I don't expect a happy ending, but I don't think Kelly C being killed off would have nearly as much of an impact.

I don't want her to die, but she's been doing a little too good for the past couple of seasons. She lost Drogo and her baby, but has gained an entire army and three dragons. It's her time to suffer for a bit, goddamn it.

 

[Fuzzy]

Oh hell, there's a spoiler in one of those video titles on the right.

Why don't you have the YouTube Me Again script installed so you can watch YT videos within GAF? I never go to YT.

 

[televator]

Stannis named 3 people when throwing the kingsblood leeches on the fire:

"The usurper Robb Stark, the usurper Balon Greyjoy, the usurper Joffrey Baratheon"

I'm kinda expecting Balon Greyjoy getting killed and turning out to be the one torturing Theon Greyjoy. (I have not read the books)

I fully expect the magic leech to overlook Joffrey. Stannis called him Joffrey Baratheon. Lord of light voodoo will go to king's landing and find no Baratheons... Only Lanisters.

 

[kellycandthedragons]

Luwin gives us a rough idea of the time table since it couldn't have been more than a matter of hours between him getting speared by Theon's henchman and Bran finding him bleeding out. Sure, at the very latest the Iron Islanders burned it as they were moving out. My main point stands that there's no reason to believe another faction is to blame, at least not directly.

Well, there's also the question of why would they, whoever burned it, come back? It doesn't really add up if you think about it. Let's talk through what happens here.

Winterfell is surrounded. Theon tries to give an epic speech. His men knock him out and say let's go home. Presumably they surrendered, then. Because if they agreed and wanted to fight, why knock the person that's trying to get them riled up out? Even still, why surrender and burn everything, only to come back? It does not make sense. Winterfell was fine when we saw that they weren't having any of this nonsense Theon was trying to feed them. So you mean to tell me they said "fuck that," burned the place, surrendered, and then made plans to come back to the pile of ash they left there? The ironborn burning Winterfell...I can't seem to make it fit logically in the context. So what could have happened is they walked out, surrendered, and handed over Theon. Then whoever was taking Winterfell from them came inside and burned it. That makes the most sense, given what was going on when Theon was knocked out.

Excluding Luwin's last words, there is reason to believe another faction is to blame for the simple fact that it doesn't follow logically. Unless you can offer a suggestion that does fit, of course. If I'm misunderstanding completely, I apologize haha

 

[Chie Satonaka]

I *JUST* realized something.

House Frey are Tully Bannermen, correct?

I'm not sure what House Tully's strategic interests are, and I know Lysa was hoiled up in the Eyrie because she was afraid, but this makes Littlefinger going there to marry her even more interesting. What if she agrees to the union just so they'll have the power to enact revenge? I could see a furious Lysa marrying Littlefinger and vowing blood for House Frey's betrayal. Yes, Robb broke an oath, but if anyone was going to be kiled for that, it should have been ROBB, not Catelyn.

Yes, yes, I know, Lannisters, Roose Bolton and all that. But it's going to be interesting to see how Lysa and Littlefinger react.


GODDAMN IT IS IT SUNDAY YET

 

[Morts]

I fully expect the magic leech to overlook Joffrey. Stannis called him Joffrey Baratheon. Lord of light voodoo will go to king's landing and find no Baratheons... Only Lanisters.

It goes by what it says on his driver's license.

Alternate theory is that Joffrey gets killed twice since whatever magic Stannis sent after Robb finds him already dead, so it decides to team up with the other leech magic.

 

[Zeliard]

Alternate theory is that Joffrey gets killed twice

Can we be so lucky?

 

[Blader]

It goes by what it says on his driver's license.

Alternate theory is that Joffrey gets killed twice since whatever magic Stannis sent after Robb finds him already dead, so it decides to team up with the other leech magic.

I don't think this is another shadow assassin deal, it's just a case of naming people who will drop dead. I don't think Stannis naming Robb and then Robb dying shortly afterward is meant to be a coincidence.

 

[CountBlack]

Just spent the rest of my day after work catching up on the show.

I knew it was going to be a crazy ending but..

Until like 10 minutes after I was still sitting there like this:

 

[Nameless]

I fully expect the magic leech to overlook Joffrey. Stannis called him Joffrey Baratheon. Lord of light voodoo will go to king's landing and find no Baratheons... Only Lanisters.

You insult the Lord of Light by suggesting his powers could be negated mere semantics. If Gendry came in Queen Melisandre Joffrey's end could be growing inside her as we speak. There's great power in King's pre-cum so we should be good either way.

 

[Zeliard]

I don't think this is another shadow assassin deal, it's just a case of naming people who will drop dead. I don't think Stannis naming Robb and then Robb dying shortly afterward is meant to be a coincidence.

Yeah if Melisandre has visions it's possible she just saw it in her crystal ball flame of magicks that Robb was due for death. Doesn't seem to bode well for Balon Greyjoy and Joffrey, either way.

 

[Angry Fork]

Bran should warg into his legs so he can walk

Wait how come this can't happen? lol Has he done it in the books? It'll be like Professor X walking with his mind (I don't know why he doesn't do that either unless it would be too annoying/stressful).

 

[Cipherr]

Exactly! so what time do we burn her?

Meh, thats just first impressions. They deliberately portrayed her as annoying and naive in the early first season. She desperately wanted to marry joffrey like a goddamned idiot. Her character is MUCH better now IMO, but some folks are gonna have that first impression linger.

 

[cashman]

I *JUST* realized something.

House Frey are Tully Bannermen, correct?

I'm not sure what House Tully's strategic interests are, and I know Lysa was hoiled up in the Eyrie because she was afraid, but this makes Littlefinger going there to marry her even more interesting. What if she agrees to the union just so they'll have the power to enact revenge? I could see a furious Lysa marrying Littlefinger and vowing blood for House Frey's betrayal. Yes, Robb broke an oath, but if anyone was going to be kiled for that, it should have been ROBB, not Catelyn.

Yes, yes, I know, Lannisters, Roose Bolton and all that. But it's going to be interesting to see how Lysa and Littlefinger react.


GODDAMN IT IS IT SUNDAY YET

Lysa's kid is still sucking on her titties. She's not doing shit that will jeopardize his life. Maybe Littlefinger will convince her though.

 

[lexi]

I fully expect the magic leech to overlook Joffrey. Stannis called him Joffrey Baratheon. Lord of light voodoo will go to king's landing and find no Baratheons... Only Lanisters.

Don't you be stealing my Death Note x Game of Thrones fanfiction ideas.

 

[kurahador]

Stannis named 3 people when throwing the kingsblood leeches on the fire:

"The usurper Robb Stark, the usurper Balon Greyjoy, the usurper Joffrey Baratheon"

I'm kinda expecting Balon Greyjoy getting killed and turning out to be the one torturing Theon Greyjoy. (I have not read the books)

Ohhh yes.

And Joffrey's leeches seems to die the worst in that scene. Episode 9 in season 4 can't come sooner!!!

 

[Chie Satonaka]

Lysa's kid is still sucking on her titties. She's not doing shit that will jeopardize his life. Maybe Littlefinger will convince her though.

This is true. But since the Lannisters are apparently plotting to take over the entire fucking world ANYWAY, maybe this will convince her to act. Not only that, Bannerman betrayal is an act punishable by death, and Cat is her sister. They might not have seemed close at the time when we saw them together in season one, but this should be unforgivable. I think it changes the stakes.

 

[Soyongdori]

 

[Platy]

Wait how come this can't happen? lol Has he done it in the books? It'll be like Professor X walking with his mind (I don't know why he doesn't do that either unless it would be too annoying/stressful).

Because when you warg into something your body is imobile.... so it would be like a dead body with ONLY the legs moving

 

[Angry Fork]

Because when you warg into something your body is imobile.... so it would be like a dead body with ONLY the legs moving

That would be so creepy, it would look like a rag doll glitch. Something out of beetlejuice haha.

 

[Atraveller]

Dragons are magical in nature so I'm thinking he can't just warg them. From what it looks like they can boost magic (the reason the warlock wanted to keep them locked away in his ... place) and they are mentally or magically connected to Daenerys. (they seem to act and respond the way she wants them to without her ever saying a word. Reminds me of Daemons from the Golden Compass ...)

And how is he the strongest Warg? That other guy had far more control over his warging power.

I think it's because Bran's power is not fully developed yet, that's why they are going for the three eyes raven. Also in the first season he saw his father's execution, and that's hundred of miles away, without his wolf.

 

[StopMakingSense]

I asked an no one answered, what was the very last we left off with Benjen? I just don't remember.

I think it's because Bran's power is not fully developed yet, that's why they are going for the three eyes raven. Also in the first season he saw his father's execution, and that's hundred of miles away, without his wolf.

Pfft. Didn't see shit about his mom's death. Crappy warg.

 

[jaxword]

I asked an no one answered, what was the very last we left off with Benjen? I just don't remember.

He lead a Ranging into the North to discover why the Wildings were massing.

That's why Old Jorah went out with the Night's Watch, to find out what happened to HIM. And they were then wiped out by the White Walkers and the mutiny.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

I asked an no one answered, what was the very last we left off with Benjen? I just don't remember.



Pfft. Didn't see shit about his mom's death. Crappy warg.

I'm not sure, but it was early, early in season one.

I want to say episode 3 or 4. It seems like he took off in "Lord Snow", but I could be wrong.

 

[StopMakingSense]

He lead a Ranging into the North to discover why the Wildings were massing.

That's why Old Jorah went out with the Night's Watch, to find out what happened to HIM. And they were then wiped out by the White Walkers and the mutiny.

Ah, thanks.

 

[Madness]

I have a feeling it'll be like some Walking Dead reveal. Jon is fighting wights and white walkers and BAM sees his uncle Benjen.

On a related note:

 

[Released]

I asked an no one answered, what was the very last we left off with Benjen? I just don't remember.

Haven't seen him since he left on some assignment north of The Wall in the first season. Only sign of him since was his horse returning.

Pfft. Didn't see shit about his mom's death. Crappy warg.

What about his vision earlier this season? The one where he climbed a tree in pursuit of the three-eyed raven.

 

[Zeliard]

What happens if a warg wargs into a warg who is warging into Hodor? Does the universe implode?

Could this be how the series ends?

 

[Nameless]

Well, there's also the question of why would they, whoever burned it, come back? It doesn't really add up if you think about it. Let's talk through what happens here.

Winterfell is surrounded. Theon tries to give an epic speech. His men knock him out and say let's go home. Presumably they surrendered, then. Because if they agreed and wanted to fight, why knock the person that's trying to get them riled up out? Even still, why surrender and burn everything, only to come back? It does not make sense. Winterfell was fine when we saw that they weren't having any of this nonsense Theon was trying to feed them. So you mean to tell me they said "fuck that," burned the place, surrendered, and then made plans to come back to the pile of ash they left there? The ironborn burning Winterfell...I can't seem to make it fit logically in the context. So what could have happened is they walked out, surrendered, and handed over Theon. Then whoever was taking Winterfell from them came inside and burned it. That makes the most sense, given what was going on when Theon was knocked out.

Excluding Luwin's last words, there is reason to believe another faction is to blame for the simple fact that it doesn't follow logically. Unless you can offer a suggestion that does fit, of course. If I'm misunderstanding completely, I apologize haha

From what I could gather seizing Winterfell was a mistake Theon was duped into making under the guise of impressing his father. His men never respected him, clearly, and by appealing to his daddy issues they were able to sack & pillage the defenseless capital of The North instead of engaging in the riskier/less(non) profitable skirmishes against Robb, Balon originally ordered Theon to lead. No one but Theon had delusions of occupying Winterfell long term; it would be more trouble than it's worth, especially, as Asha pointed out, for a naval culture that thrives by the sea.

Really, I can't think of a reason why the Iron Islanders wouldn't have burned it down. They've already raped and ravaged their way through the city, the Stark boys are dead, Maester Luwin is dead, Northmen are closing in... why leave your enemy's main base standing if you're not going to use it?

 

[EatChildren]

Finally got around to watching it, as I was unable to from Monday until now. I should have turned off twitter and Facebook during that period. Nobody explicitly spoiled anything, but everybody is so fucking awful at being vague that it was obvious Robb was going to die. "MAN WOW WHAT AN EPISODE DONT WANNA SPOIL IT POOR STARKS". Fucked up in Game of Thrones equates to someone significant dying. Sooo yeah, thanks social media (and television).

Didn't see Cat and his wife snuffing it, so at least that was shocking.

Overall a really great episode. The rawness of the wedding massacre was top shit. I loved that the massacre was mostly filmed from Catelyn's perspective, as I felt she was the most important observer for the Starks. She's the one who has truly seen her family lose everything. Really great final shot.

Totally saw a Bolton + Frey betrayal though, weeks ago. The series had been beating the viewer over the head that Frey at the very least could not be trusted with anything. And Bolton getting cosy with Tywin was enough evidence to know the logistics of Robb's alliance to the Boltons wasn't half as strong as Robb thought it was.

Bran + Snow stuff were great. Really happy to see their plots briefly converge, and Bran develop people warging. I find Bran to be this weird bridge to the two sides of the Song of Ice & Fire universe. You've got this layer of raw humanity and morality. People being people, basically, throwing blind faith into gods and magic mostly to appeal to egos and fear. Scepticism. War. Etc. But you've got this shroud of mystique and supernatural hanging over everything. The red god. Prophecies. Warging. And of course the White Walkers. Like there's this supernatural force nobody wants to admit or believe, and some can't even see. Bran's importance to me is that he's a bit of a bridge. He comes from a very earthly and human house name, one plagued with raw human tragedy. Yet he now possesses abilities even those familiar with magics do not understand.

Snow actually following through with the plan was great to see. It's easy to be sympathetic to the wildings for the obvious reasons, but he's right in that they're too scattered, disorganised, and reckless. They're a shade of grey like everybody else, and it's nice to see Jon not pander to that and make them into good guys.

All the Daenerys was a bit weak to me though. Seemed like they really just wanted to get the sacking over and done with, and squeezed it in an episode with far bigger priorities and budget spent elsewhere. I can actually agree to that decision, especially if her story has some cool shit next episode, but as it was it seemed a bit rushed and half hearted. And a bit cheap looking. The fight choreography was stupid silly. Fun silly, but still stupid. Totally polarising to the raw massacre of the wedding and some of the other battles in the series. Seemed like everyone was just dancing around with swords trying to be fancy. Wish they had just made it raw and messy. The series is much better when it's not trying to be another flashy high fantasy.

Anyway, looking forward to next week, and not being spoiled on anything.

 

[sooperkool]

From HBO's viewer's guide.



House Stark must have the worst life expectancy in Westeros.

Chart is missing Old Nan.

 

[CLEEK]

It goes by what it says on his driver's license.

Alternate theory is that Joffrey gets killed twice since whatever magic Stannis sent after Robb finds him already dead, so it decides to team up with the other leech magic.

The other thought is that the leech/curse does nothing, but something happens to the named people anyway. There was nothing about the wedding massacre that looked like it had divine intervention, but #TeamStannis will think good old Lighty has smited their enemy as requested.

 

[lastplayed]

I miss Viserys. He was a cunt, but an entertaining cunt.

 

[-CRASH-]

there's something that has been REALLY bothering me.

shouldn't Sam be dead? could have sworn they would have killed him at the end of season 2.

 

[PBalfredo]

Seriously?!

SERIOUSLY?!?!




Even the dire wolf?

The belly stabs were absolutely brutal.

Even though I should know not to pin hopes on a Stark, I want to see Arya start taking some bloody vengeance. Though with the pacing of this show, she probably has another five episodes of traveling before anything of note with her happens.

I'm not going to be one to say "Fuck this show!" but I will say that the Lannisters need to start getting their comeuppance, and soon!

 

[Madness]

What's the point of a Lannister comeuppance now anyway? I mean what mattered was Robb, first born son of the late Eddard Stark, and King in the North, would defeat Tywin and personally behead Joffrey.

All my personal revenge hopes are now pinned on Arya or Jon. Maybe Sansa.

I hope once Sansa finds out, she drops the naivety and becomes hard like Arya. Would be great to see her try and turn Tyrion against his family. Maybe they can get Tywin to send them to Winterfell and rebuild or something.

 

[jerry113]

Seriously?!
but I will say that the Lannisters need to start getting their comeuppance, and soon !

Even Tyrion, though? :-( I likes him.

 

[Kozak]

And who are you, the proud lord said,
that I must bow so low?


You can totally imagine Tywin saying that.

 

[kellycandthedragons]

And who are you, the proud lord said,
that I must bow so low?


You can totally imagine Tywin saying that.

That's actually the rebellious house lord speaking.

 

[SiteSeer]

not gonna add anything else to the starks' annihilation, i don't have words, so i'm gonna ask whatever happened to yunkai's 'powerful friends'. and what in the hell happened that three warriors could defeat like 50 soldiers and an army then proceed to sack a whole city before breakfast?

 

[Liquidsnake]

Maybe Ben Stark can come back and breath life back into the Stark family.
Maybe?

 

[Madness]

not gonna add anything else to the starks' annihilation, i don't have words, so i'm gonna ask whatever happened to yunkai's 'powerful friends'. and what in the hell happened that three warriors could defeat like 50 soldiers and an army then proceed to sack a whole city before breakfast?

Budgetary and time constraints I guess.

 

[Liquidsnake]

Even Tyrion, though? :-( I likes him.

Tyrion is cool. He is the most reasonable, I would hope his path going forward will be a righteous one.

 

[Kozak]

That's actually the rebellious house lord speaking.

Really? Dayum this House Reyne sounds pretty bad ass then. The Starks before the Starks.

 

[EatChildren]

Game of Thrones: You Win or You Die

Mostly you die.

 

[Cyan]

Game of Thrones: You Win or You Die

Mostly you die.

Spoken like someone who isn't a Lannister.

 

[kellycandthedragons]

Really? Dayum this House Reyne sounds pretty bad ass then. The Starks before the Starks.

The song is a story. Keep that in mind and it makes sense. That refrain is “and so he spoke, that Lord of Castamere. But now the rains weep over his hall with no one there to hear.”
So basically he was sticking out his chest and saying “I’m just as tough as you” but now there’s basically nobody around to hear him make that claim.

 

[EatChildren]

Spoken like someone who isn't a Lannister.

I predict next episode half the cast on all sides will self combust, because reasons.