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[PBalfredo]

What's the point of a Lannister comeuppance now anyway? I mean what mattered was Robb, first born son of the late Eddard Stark, and King in the North, would defeat Tywin and personally behead Joffrey.

All my personal revenge hopes are now pinned on Arya or Jon. Maybe Sansa.

I hope once Sansa finds out, she drops the naivety and becomes hard like Arya. Would be great to see her try and turn Tyrion against his family. Maybe they can get Tywin to send them to Winterfell and rebuild or something.

Because fuck the Lannisters, that's why!

Seriously, the Starks were perfectly happy minding their own business before the Lannisters came to town and started throwing kids out windows and needing replacements for the Hands they had killed.

I don't see why so many people are quick to call Robb too dumb to live. He has been winning victories on the field, his plan to hit the Lannisters where it hurts is a sound one and going back on his promise to the lord of The Twins was moot since the creepy old fuck was in the Lannister's pocket anyway. If there is anyone who should get called out for not thinking things through it should be Jon Snow. He joins the Night Watch, hesitates killing a wildling. Joins the wildlings, hesitates killing a Night Watch (associate). Leaves his dire wolf behind. His heart was obviously never into the idea of sacking Castle Black. What the hell was his plan?

 

[kellycandthedragons]

I mean to continue my explanation of rains of castamere, but things move so fast so I'm just going to put another post...

Don’t think about how the melody goes. Just read the lyrics as if it’s a paragraph
“And who are you,” the proud lord said, “that I must bow so low? Only a cat of a different coat; that’s all the truth I know. In a coat of gold or a coat of red, a lion still has claws. Mine are long and sharp, my lord—as long and sharp as yours.” And so he spoke, and so he spoke, that lord of Castamere. But now the rains weep o’er his hall with no one there to hear. Yes, now the rains weep o’er his hall and not a soul to hear.

I didn't understand the coat of gold part, but my friend told me its because the sigil of the Reynes was a red lion I think.

 

[Nameless]

I could be wrong but as recent as his conversation with Jamie in "The Climb" I think Roose Bolton was still loyal to the Starks. In the scene prior we see Frey's sons(one I believe ends up stabbing Talisa) discussing terms with Robb and his court. Frey wants an answer by morning with the wedding between Edmure and Roslind, should the Starks agree, taking place within 14 days.

Bolton, who's also married to one of Walder's daughters, gets wind of this and finds himself in the fortuitous position of being able to give Tywin both his son and his war. Frey of course gets his vengeance instead of being forced to play ball with Starks yet again, and probably Harrenhal(which was a part of his terms to Robb).

Or perhaps Tywin realized Robb had no choice but to deal with Walder eventually and already had him in his pocket. Bolton was only brought into the fold during whatever correspondence about Jamie. Bolton marries one Frey daughter, Jamie weds Roslind, those Lannister bonds keep tightening. Everybody wins.

 

[Fantomex]

Team Stannis all up in dis friends.

 

[Lamel]

Because fuck the Lannisters, that's why!

Seriously, the Starks were perfectly happy minding their own business before the Lannisters came to town and started throwing kids out windows and needing replacements for the Hands they had killed.

I don't see why so many people are quick to call Robb too dumb to live. He has been winning victories on the field, his plan to hit the Lannisters where it hurts is a sound one and going back on his promise to the lord of The Twins was moot since the creepy old fuck was in the Lannister's pocket anyway. If there is anyone who should get called out for not thinking things through it should be Jon Snow. He joins the Night Watch, hesitates killing a wildling. Joins the wildlings, hesitates killing a Night Watch (associate). Leaves his dire wolf behind. His heart was obviously never into the idea of sacking Castle Black. What the hell was his plan?

Get laid.

 

[kurahador]

Tyrion is cool. He is the most reasonable, I would hope his path going forward will be a righteous one.

And he's the most likely to get screwed. Fucking Westeros.

 

[ramyeon]

Because fuck the Lannisters, that's why!

Seriously, the Starks were perfectly happy minding their own business before the Lannisters came to town and started throwing kids out windows and needing replacements for the Hands they had killed.

I don't see why so many people are quick to call Robb too dumb to live. He has been winning victories on the field, his plan to hit the Lannisters where it hurts is a sound one and going back on his promise to the lord of The Twins was moot since the creepy old fuck was in the Lannister's pocket anyway. If there is anyone who should get called out for not thinking things through it should be Jon Snow. He joins the Night Watch, hesitates killing a wildling. Joins the wildlings, hesitates killing a Night Watch (associate). Leaves his dire wolf behind. His heart was obviously never into the idea of sacking Castle Black. What the hell was his plan?

To get back to Castle Black alive?

 

[nomis]

Get laid.

Doesn't matter, had sex

 

[Rorschach]

Because fuck the Lannisters, that's why!

Seriously, the Starks were perfectly happy minding their own business before the Lannisters came to town and started throwing kids out windows and needing replacements for the Hands they had killed.

I don't see why so many people are quick to call Robb too dumb to live. He has been winning victories on the field, his plan to hit the Lannisters where it hurts is a sound one and going back on his promise to the lord of The Twins was moot since the creepy old fuck was in the Lannister's pocket anyway. If there is anyone who should get called out for not thinking things through it should be Jon Snow. He joins the Night Watch, hesitates killing a wildling. Joins the wildlings, hesitates killing a Night Watch (associate). Leaves his dire wolf behind. His heart was obviously never into the idea of sacking Castle Black. What the hell was his plan?

They're both idiots, but one of those idiots is still alive, so he got shit on less in recent days. He's still an idiot, though.

 

[EatChildren]

I could be wrong but as recent as his conversation with Jamie in "The Climb" I think Roose Bolton was still loyal to the Starks. In the scene prior we see Frey's sons(one I believe ends up stabbing Talisa) discussing terms with Robb and his court. Frey wants an answer by morning with the wedding between Edmure and Roslind, should the Starks agree, taking place within 14 days.

Bolton, who's also married to one of Walder's daughters, gets wind of this and finds himself in the fortuitous position of being able to give Tywin both his son and his war. Frey of course gets his vengeance instead of being forced to play ball with Starks yet again, and probably Harrenhal(which was a part of his terms to Robb).

Or perhaps Tywin realized Robb had no choice but to deal with Walder eventually and already had him in his pocket. Bolton was only brought into the fold during whatever correspondence about Jamie. Bolton marries one Frey daughter, Jamie weds Roslind, those Lannister bonds keep tightening. Everybody wins.

Pieces of the puzzle from season two indicate Bolton's treachery may seed deeper. Somebody sacked Winterfell and burnt it to the ground. We're lead to believe it was the Greyjoys, a group who just wanted to get the fuck out there. Bolton told Robb he'd send his bastard at Dreadfort to take back Winterfell.

Low and behold, Winterfell is fucked, Theon is captured, and being held by a mystery figure at a mystery fort.

 

[Kozak]

Yeah I'm in the camp who doesn't think Robb is stupid and thats the reason he died.

Robb died because he was raised a Stark during Roberts reign.

Jon Snow is seriously a carbon copy of Robb. He's so attached to his oaths, vows, "what is expected of him" but crumbles under love as well. Seriously, in before Jon Snow saves the Nights Watch but accepts his death because he broke his oaths, dying a hero traitor.

 

[jaxword]

Pieces of the puzzle from season two indicate Bolton's treachery may seed deeper. Somebody sacked Winterfell and burnt it to the ground. We're lead to believe it was the Greyjoys, a group who just wanted to get the fuck out there. Bolton told Robb he'd send his bastard at Dreadfort to take back Winterfell.

Low and behold, Winterfell is fucked, Theon is captured, and being held by a mystery figure at a mystery fort.

That's what I was getting at last page. We don't know who burned Winterfell or who captured Theon, but it's strongly suggested to be the Boltons. Which means that they've been planning this power play for a while and used the war to make their move.

It's all about power.

 

[kellycandthedragons]

Pieces of the puzzle from season two indicate Bolton's treachery may seed deeper. Somebody sacked Winterfell and burnt it to the ground. We're lead to believe it was the Greyjoys, a group who just wanted to get the fuck out there. Bolton told Robb he'd send his bastard at Dreadfort to take back Winterfell.

Low and behold, Winterfell is fucked, Theon is captured, and being held by a mystery figure at a mystery fort.

That's what I was saying. The part about wanting to get out. But I guess I just assumed that we'd all been reminded that Bolton sent his bastard there. But yeah we were just discussing who burned Winterfell, and I guess I can agree that in that moment it's not ridiculous to think that the ironborn did it, but you worded why it probably wasn't them better than I ever could haha.

 

[Minion101]

Yeah I'm in the camp who doesn't think Robb is stupid and thats the reason he died.

If Robb didn't die because of the Red Queens leech spell then the only thing he did wrong (to get him killed) was not marry for political reasons.

 

[Heisenberg]

If Robb didn't die because of the Red Queens leech spell then the only thing he did wrong (to get him killed) was not marry for political reasons.

Beheading the Karstark guy was just as stupid and was directly responsible for him having to try to get Frey on his side again in the first place.

 

[EatChildren]

Jon Snow is seriously a carbon copy of Robb. He's so attached to his oaths, vows, "what is expected of him" but crumbles under love as well. Seriously, in before Jon Snow saves the Nights Watch but accepts his death because he broke his oaths, dying a hero traitor.

I think Robb and Snow are quite different, though still bare quintessential Stark traits. That being allegiance to honour. Robb's folly was simply that he was pretty awful at playing politics. Excellent leader at war, fantastic in combat, but struggled to grasp the nuances of the houses, their customs, and how deep their allegiances and desires lie. Like Robb sending Theon off to barter with the Greyjoys. I'm sure Theon meant well and Robb trusted him, but Catelyn knew better, as in her age she had far better experience and understanding of how the Greyjoys work. Robb relied too much on the face value of honour, and what people say. Same for taking Rickard Karstark's head. Catelyn and everybody else could see the bigger political picture, and Robb couldn't. Same could be said for him marrying Talisa, despite the agreement with Frey. In the end him following that voice inside and acting on impulse cost him too much.

Snow believes in honour, but he's also searching for a rock to hold on, because he's always been downtrodden. He's only been raised half as a Stark. I think going to the wall was him trying to find his piece of Stark-like honour, something he saw in his uncle Ben, while also distancing himself from the traditional Stark bloodline bullshit. He wouldn't have to be "the bastard Stark" standing next to the likes of Robb, but instead finding honour elsewhere, one free of bloodlines.

But I also liked his development over the last couple of episodes. He's always come across as a bit of a sheep. Partially trying to find his own way, partially gullible to all the bullshit people speak to him. He often doesn't speak or do for himself, but his analysis of the wildlings and now abandonment shows he does have an internal directive and is capable of rational decision making.

 

[kellycandthedragons]

As far as “when did Roose betray Robb?” goes, it really depends on if we’re right in guessing who burned Winterfell and who is holding Theon. Because if we are, then Bolton betrayed him long ago. Or at least someone related to him did. Hell, I wouldn’t be surprised if Lannister approached Bolton with an offer of gold and land for betraying Robb. How easy would it be for him to say “hey man, send your kid to burn Winterfell so that Robb is forced to go north again, so we can ambush him.” But then Talisa happened. And Roose contacted Tywin to notify him. Tywin did say they had spies in Robb’s camp. So Tywin changes it to include the Freys. I think that would make sense. I know that a lot of people thought the spy could have been Talisa, but who was right there, whispering in Robb's ear from the moment things started to go badly? ROOSE TROLLTON.

 

[argon]

It's unfortunate that some people were spoiled by the last page's youtube link, so I found something out: to watch youtube clips (e.g. show excerpts) without worrying about inadvertently reading spoilerish comments or titles, use this format:

If the video is link is this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=<id>

Replace it with this:

http://www.youtube.com/v?v=<id>

This brings you to a dedicated page for the video without any side comments or links to other videos. Just don't hover over the videos at the end otherwise you will see the titles.

e.g. Theon Greyjoy's speech: http://www.youtube.com/v?v=HaU_VpMu0cE

 

[Kozak]

Beheading the Karstark guy was just as stupid and was directly responsible for him having to try to get Frey on his side again in the first place.

Robb had to do it though. The reason he had to do it was stupid but thats how Robb was raised.

 

[Rorschach]

If Robb didn't die because of the Red Queens leech spell then the only thing he did wrong (to get him killed) was not marry for political reasons.

And to go back to Frey and rub his face in it. And to behead the loyal man he needed most. And to take advice from his idiot mother, but not the only time she had sound advice (when she said not to let Theon go to the Greyjoys). And he lost Jaime.


The attack on Casterly Rock was risky even if he had the resources for it (which he didn't). He had to beg a man he betrayed and he let his guard down while doing it. I don't buy the "love" excuse. Frey was 100% on point when he said it was about lust. Met, banged, married.

 

[ramyeon]

And to go back to Frey and rub his face in it. And to behead the loyal man he needed most. And to take advice from his idiot mother. And he lost Jaime.

Most of his biggest mistakes came from not listening to his mother...

 

[Rorschach]

Most of his biggest mistakes came from not listening to his mother...

Ok one of those which I edited in!

 

[kellycandthedragons]

Robb had to do it though. The reason he had to do it was stupid but thats how Robb was raised.

Nah, he was going to listen to council, but the guy was taunting him an calling him soft. It was pride, more than anything. He's standing there saying "Yeah I thought so. This is how he handles people who commit treason. What a punk." and "Or should I say, the king who lost the north?" It may have been how he was raised but it was partially a heat of the moment thing done to save his image in front of his men, just like Theon. They even have several deliberate parallels between those two scenes. Watch them back to back. Theon kills Rodrick and Robb kills Karstark.

 

[ramyeon]

Ok one of those which I edited in!

She told him not to let Theon go, not to marry Talisa and not to kill Karstark. I'd say she had more than one bit of sound advice.

 

[MrHicks]

the starks should worship the lord of light
his wife could have recovered from those stabbings if they had a spare "emergency lol priest" hanging around

a tree with a face carved on it isn't gonna do shit

 

[Fuzzy]

It's unfortunate that some people were spoiled by the last page's youtube link, so I found something out: to watch youtube clips (e.g. show excerpts) without worrying about inadvertently reading spoilerish comments or titles, use this format:

If the video is link is this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=<id>

Replace it with this:

http://www.youtube.com/tv?v=<id>

This brings you to a dedicated page for the video without any side comments or links to other videos.

e.g. Theon Greyjoy's speech: http://www.youtube.com/tv?v=HaU_VpMu0cE

Or just install the YouTube Me Again script so it looks like this on GAF so you never have to leave. The video shows up right in the post and you can pick the size you want or go to full screen.

 

[jaxword]

As far as “when did Roose betray Robb?” goes, it really depends on if we’re right in guessing who burned Winterfell and who is holding Theon. Because if we are, then Bolton betrayed him long ago. Or at least someone related to him did. Hell, I wouldn’t be surprised if Lannister approached Bolton with an offer of gold and land for betraying Robb. How easy would it be for him to say “hey man, send your kid to burn Winterfell so that Robb is forced to go north again, so we can ambush him.” But then Talisa happened. And Roose contacted Tywin to notify him. Tywin did say they had spies in Robb’s camp. So Tywin changes it to include the Freys. I think that would make sense. I know that a lot of people thought the spy could have been Talisa, but who was right there, whispering in Robb's ear from the moment things started to go badly? ROOSE TROLLTON.

Here's the scene that, in retrospect, shows Tywin negotiating with the Boltons:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj6oo-TRKqY

Avoid spoilers.

Since a few episodes later, the Boltons (with the insane bear tracker) find Jaime and give him back, this means that Tywin bought out the Boltons.

 

[Mashing]

Any idea what the ratings were like? I'm not googling shit on this show, even something as innocuous as that in fear of spoilers.

 

[soundscream]

Beheading the Karstark guy was just as stupid and was directly responsible for him having to try to get Frey on his side again in the first place.

As a military leader I don't think you can allow a subordinate to openly go against your command without serious repercussions. If he didn't do that why would anyone feel the need to follow his orders?

 

[ReturnOfTheRAT]

Any idea what the ratings were like? I'm not googling shit on this show, even something as innocuous as that in fear of spoilers.

Edit:

Show Net Time Viewership (million, Live+SD) Adults 18-49 rating (Live+SD)
GAME OF THRONES HBOM 9:04 PM 5.22 2.8

 

[Madness]

I hate the look Bolton gives to Cat. As if he's saying, 'Yep, it's coming, I'm wearing chain mail'.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

Because fuck the Lannisters, that's why!

I like you. We should be friends.

Fuck House Lannister.

 

[Mashing]

Edit:

Show Net Time Viewership (million, Live+SD) Adults 18-49 rating (Live+SD)
GAME OF THRONES HBOM 9:04 PM 5.22 2.8

Nice numbers. Next week will interesting.

 

[kellycandthedragons]

I hate the look Bolton gives to Cat. As if he's saying, 'Yep, it's coming, I'm wearing chain mail'.

I saw it as he was telling her to look. I love it because its so terrible.

 

[jaxword]

I hate the look Bolton gives to Cat. As if he's saying, 'Yep, it's coming, I'm wearing chain mail'.

No "as if" at all there. That's exactly what he's saying. "You're already dead and there's nothing you can do."

 

[Kozak]

Nah, he was going to listen to council, but the guy was taunting him an calling him soft. It was pride, more than anything. He's standing there saying "Yeah I thought so. This is how he handles people who commit treason. What a punk." and "Or should I say, the king who lost the north?" It may have been how he was raised but it was partially a heat of the moment thing done to save his image in front of his men, just like Theon. They even have several deliberate parallels between those two scenes. Watch them back to back. Theon kills Rodrick and Robb kills Karstark.

The council he would have taken was from the Tully's though.

I think from Season 1 (especially the scene with Ned and her at the Winterfell Godswood) we've always seen that Catelyn has always struggled to accept the "Stark" way.

How about this scene from S1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKB0ogglzGQ

Ned doesn't know it actually is Sandor Clegane but he obviously fits the bill. Feels like Littlefinger here is abusing the "Stark" way. Catelyn would have reacted the same way Pycelle would have.

 

[EatChildren]

The entire scene with Cat from the moment the doors begin to close is so awfully tense. You can tell her heart is in her throat the entire time.

 

[Fuzzy]

Edit:

Show Net Time Viewership (million, Live+SD) Adults 18-49 rating (Live+SD)
GAME OF THRONES HBOM 9:04 PM 5.22 2.8

And to compare.

Taken from Aiii in the other thread.

 

[TheExodu5]

The entire scene with Cat from the moment the doors begin to close is so awfully tense. You can tell her heart is in her throat the entire time.

It starts even before that...when she looks up at the band the scene prior. She has fear in her eyes.

 

[kellycandthedragons]

No "as if" at all there. That's exactly what he's saying. "You're already dead and there's nothing you can do."

LOL dude rewatching the scene, when he sits down he does it in SUCH an awkward way and totally puts his arm right there on purpose. I was right, he was TELLING her to look. hahahahaha he's such a dick.

 

[Minion101]

It starts even before that...when she looks up at the band the scene prior. She has fear in her eyes.

Yup because they were playing this fucking song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ey9vSYxuAJk&list=HL1370409864

 

[D23]

wow, just got spoiled off of a random IGN picture comments that doesnt even related to game of thrones. so pissed right now

 

[jerry113]

The ratings next week will be the highest of the series run so far.

 

[TheBryanJZX90]

Snow believes in honour, but he's also searching for a rock to hold on, because he's always been downtrodden. He's only been raised half as a Stark. I think going to the wall was him trying to find his piece of Stark-like honour, something he saw in his uncle Ben, while also distancing himself from the traditional Stark bloodline bullshit. He wouldn't have to be "the bastard Stark" standing next to the likes of Robb, but instead finding honour elsewhere, one free of bloodlines.

Interesting thought: what if Jon Snow wasn't so emo, or if Benjen hadn't encouraged him (kind of) to go to the wall? Maybe things would have turned out a lot better for Rob if he had Jon at his side instead of Theon. Rob didn't even like Theon that much until they were in combat together, like when Rob shot Theon down after Osha's group attacked Bran.

 

[Fuzzy]

The ratings next week will be the highest of the series run so far.

But a lot of people said they were done with the show after what just happened.

 

[Kozak]

Watched the episode again.

The worst part is that everyone except Catelyn felt entirely comfortable the whole wedding.
Robb was laughing, Blackfish was getting drunk

 

[jaxword]

Watched the episode again.

The worst part is that everyone except Catelyn felt entirely comfortable the whole wedding.
Robb was laughing, Blackfish was getting drunk

Yeah, it shows why the Starks were so easily killed, they let their guard down. Bolton even SAYS "[I don't drink], it dulls the senses."

When Jaime saw Bolton do that, he got suspicious. When Robb saw it, he ignored it. And paid the price.

 

[demolitio]

But a lot of people said they were done with the show after what just happened.

That's what's funny. It's easy for people to say that in the heat of the moment after watching an extremely emotional scene, but most of them have at least cooled off enough to realize the aftermath might be worth watching and then the others will keep watching waiting for the inevitable justice to be served even if it never comes (unless they count Joffrey as a win even though that one is obviously going to happen eventually). On top of that, some Starks still live so the people who loved the other Starks so dearly will surely want to see what happens to the other kids and where they go from here. If anything, I think this might be a big blow for quite a while, but redemption will happen through characters we might not have expected even just a few episodes ago..

I was sad and pissed but that's the nature of the show and now I want to see where the story goes from here considering there's so many other fights going on for the throne.

This makes me want to download the Game of Thrones mod for Medieval 2: Total War but I know it will inevitably have book spoilers and I'm too invested in the series to read the books right now no matter how much I want to.

 

[Madness]

Yeah, it shows why the Starks were so easily killed, they let their guard down. Bolton even SAYS "[I don't drink], it dulls the senses."

When Jaime saw Bolton do that, he got suspicious. When Robb saw it, he ignored it. And paid the price.

I don't think that's what it is. I think Robb just misinterpreted how loyal his men were to him, and how many were loyal to his father. Ned Stark could have beheaded Karstark, and they wouldn't have left, they'd still rally because they knew who he was, what he stood for and what he was capable of.

He had no reason to mistrust Bolton. I loved Robb, but he was young, inexperienced and naive. He may have won all his battles, but he lost the war.

As for Bolton, that's what I meant. He basically tells Cat to look at the chain mail. She'd guessed correctly what was going to happen and Bolton gave her the look, to say yep.

If anything, I think after this event, no one will forget what happened and will always remember that you can't even trust your own bannermen anymore or even your wedding host etc.

 

[Nameless]

Pieces of the puzzle from season two indicate Bolton's treachery may seed deeper. Somebody sacked Winterfell and burnt it to the ground. We're lead to believe it was the Greyjoys, a group who just wanted to get the fuck out there. Bolton told Robb he'd send his bastard at Dreadfort to take back Winterfell.

Low and behold, Winterfell is fucked, Theon is captured, and being held by a mystery figure at a mystery fort.

But what of Maester Luwin? Wouldn't he mention Stark banner men burning Winterfell to the ground? And after that why would they leave him alive? Either way, I can only picture the Boltons holding Theon at Balon's request. If they were still loyal to the Starks at the time of his capture why else keep quiet about it? And if Roose was on the Lannister payroll all along why imprison & torture an ally against Robb? Answers dammit!