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[spock]

Honestly how this all is going to work is going to take time to pan out. My guess is MS has outlined key guiding principles (drm, etc.) from the XBOne, but all the details outside of the core concepts themselves may go through multiple revisions and changes as the watch how things progress over time while gathering and analyzing data. The rules are there but I doubt how those rules will be implemented and work long term are set in stone. My guess is this is how Sony is approaching things as well.

I believe they are going to fundamentally implement many of the same ideas people are harping on MS for, how the implement is what they are trying to figure out. I think they realize that they could pivot and not do any of these things people are upset about, but I think they know that they will have to do it in some form at some point. If not this generation, then next gen.

Obviously Sony could wait and let MS go through all the drama and tech humps of making this transition, but down the line that could end up being a bigger problem for Sony since MS would have an advantage over already gone through the growing pains of this "new age" transition.

 

[GQman2121]

Are you saying in general? I assume we will be able to sell/trade in games whether they are digital or disc. At least I hope so. If not, this blows even more than I thought.

 

[TAJ]

Nearly 60% of all cell phones in the US are smart phones. This model of DRM, aside from the physical part of the equation, is already mostly familiar to anyone who buys iOS and Android apps, even DD storefronts, like Steam and Origin. There's no doubt that this will be a transition that will peel off some previous consumers, whether by lack of requirements or by lack of interest, but most people adapt very quickly when the product is something they like. Consumers, even hardcore ones, I think, are generally very pliable when it involves something they cannot quite get somewhere else. Are people going to skip consoles games over this? I don't think very many will since, to them, games are an ephemeral experience whose value is only in memory after finished. This is probably the average person selling or trading their games into a Gamestop or other big chain who takes trade. This is also the average person that rents games from GameFly or Redbox. Games, to most people, I think, are transitory and therefore disposable. Can't say I blame them as games are, in fact, mostly disposable entertainment as they were designed to be a product to maximize sales, not necessarily serve a loftier intent of making interactive art or focusing themselves on being an expression. It's a business, after all, but especially on the console side. Just how many leave or get left behind will determine whether it's a contracting market in a couple of years or a growing one. Gonna say it...I think this is like people spending all of those years railing against Steam and the rise of the very nearly DD-only PC market in the US. It will overwhelm and become the new norm. Not saying people shouldn't feel like they can make a difference if they want to or if they feel compelled to, with regard to educating others and trying to mount some form of organized protest in addition to not buying, but let's face some serious reality about who the main audience consoles are aimed at going forward. It's not people on NeoGAF. Current gen/last gen is basically the tail-end of the traditional console era. You can tell because there are all of these bones and fossils of the animals that used to run things then. Maybe next-gen is the last gasp of the traditional model, but the changes are all informed by what's going on all around consoles.

Apps cost basically nothing compared to console games. I can't believe you're even making this comparison.

 

[Kinyou]

Free DLC. Replayability. Premium expansion DLC. Mod/User created content support.

Premium expansion DLC?

 

[maabus1999]

Yeah...




definitely a no go on buying a xbox one


if sony follows... then i think i'm done with console gaming.

Lots of PC games lately are going that route of having some kind of Internet connection.

Within 5 years and next, next gen, I think this will just be SOP. Sucks but technology improvements can be a double edged sword (in this case an all digital, online world).

 

[xxracerxx]

Does MS realize that some college dorms do not allow consoles to connect to the internet at all?

 

[BigWeather]

I pre-order a PS4 on Tuesday assuming they do the following on Monday night

1: no drm
2: under $400
3: show games

pretty simple stuff

Hell, I'd pay DOUBLE that if they do 1 and 3 just to send a message...

 

[EternalTruth]

I have a reliable internet conection, I don't buy used games, I don't sell my games, but there's no way in hell I'm touching this console. The terms are outrageous and any consumer should be offended. If Sony goes an even remotely similar route I quit console gaming.

You're not getting another dime out of me M$.

I am in the same boat, although I do rent games quite often.

 

[Delusibeta]

Are you saying in general? I assume we will be able to sell/trade in games whether they are digital or disc. At least I hope so. If not, this blows even more than I thought.

Trading in digital games? LOL. Never going to happen.

 

[ec0ec0]

how can people say things like: "i havent read all the thread yet" WHAT?!!! For reading 100 pages i would need hours and, whats worse, during that time people would be making more and more threads of news to read. Also, during all that time i would not be able to post because, if i did that, reading everything would take even more... am i slow or what? (being spanish probably doenst help...)

 

[Jarmel]

It's one at any time, not all 10 at the same time.

You can always play your games, and any one of your family members can be playing from your shared library at a given time.

Really wish we had clarification on this but nobody will bother to ask.

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

Agreed on elimination of choice sucking.

But digital downloads are actual better as there will be someway to trade them in online for credit, give them to a friend etc. apparently, where as now you can't sell or trade any games you buy on XBLA, games on demand etc. Also every game will be available to download day one.

I prefer discs so I can resell them however I want. So I'm not really on board with digital distribution unless prices go way down. But I'll still admit there are some added benefits with being able to trade them in or gift them that does help a bit.

Being able to resell digital copies (on a very limited scale, so far) is supposed to cover the loss of physical copies. It's not a bonus, it's a band-aid way too small to cover the wound.

Day one downloads have been around for a while.

I didn't mean it that way really. Just more that it's kind of silly to expect someone who is perfectly fine with all this DRM crap as it doesn't effect them to waste energy caring about people who are affected by it.

It's just a hobby. As long as I enjoy my hobbies I couldn't give a rat's fart whether anyone else does as the only opinion that matters on hobbies is my own as I'm the one either enjoying wasting my time on it (as let's face it, we all have more important things we could/should be doing to better ourselves or the world instead of playing games, watching movies etc.) or not.

If I was one who was totally unaffected by the DRM due to my gaming habits, I'd buy an Xbone and PS4 without a second thought to those who are affected and hated it.

I would not invest in a system with strong DRM with this sort of consumer backlash, if only because sales might be low. Poor third party support follows. Besides, I like to pay with my wallet. I don't buy games with shitty DRM on PC either.

And again, you're trying to trivialize gaming and as such trivialize our concerns. We're on a forum that is dedicated to debating games. If you think these topics aren't worth discussing, go to a different forum about whatever you think is more important. But I'm going to stay here and debate with people about the Xbox One.

 

[JetBlackPanda]

Apps cost basically nothing compared to console games. I can't believe you're even making this comparison.

Plus they are 100% digital it's easy for people to understand they can't resell it.

 

[Spongebob]

This PRISM stuff needs to get more attention. Its the end of freedom coming.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/prism-collection-documents/

Holy shit...

 

[maabus1999]

I'm surprised there isn't more discussion on how tremendously ridiculous this is.

They did this so you can't go sign into a friends account, have him pull the net and play, and you go back to your box and play while signed in.

I see their logic, agree or disagree, but that is why they did the hour.

 

[rain elbows]

:lol holy shit

Do you see what I see? Hahaha!

 

[xxracerxx]

Really wish we had clarification on this but nobody will bother to ask.

Even if people do ask, MS will dodge the question.

 

[DangerMouse]

I hope whatever solution PS4 comes up with, i don't need the disc in the drive. I buy mostly physical discs because they are cheaper but i want all my games instantly available to play

Maybe I'm getting old or maybe it's the movie and game collector in me but does it really take that long to put the disc in the drive?

Plus I wouldn't even want my physical game requiring full install of a blu-ray size game limiting my space for all the demos, downloadable games etc that I downloaded on my PS3 over the years. I'm already juggling space on a 500GB drive and that's only with a few PS+ retail size games.

 

[Bunta]

Really wish we had clarification on this but nobody will bother to ask.

Reads pretty clear to me. You can always play your games, and one of the family members can play at the same time as you. But yes, they did word this pretty badly.

 

[RiddleofSteel]

The reality is if both MS and Sony do the online internet check, they are going to shoot themselves in the foot. They have both forgotten the days of yore when piracy was rampant, and was the industry's biggest problem. The problem wasn't solved by the gaming company's but by the free market with the advent of game rentals, sell backs, and buying used games.

They will reap what they sow with this, and I'll be laughing my ass off as I remember all the crazy hacks I used to use in order to play games for free because of their arrogance. This will return with a bang now.

Mark my words, that one month after Xbox is shipping some hack or tool will come out that will bypass the internet checks so you can play all of your games offline, most likely created by a 13 year old kid you pissed off. When you give people no other choice, it's amazing what "regular" people can make to bypass all of these restrictions that MS has spent all of this time and money to develop. Just ask Sony about this. They still can't say the word "Sharpie" in the corporate office.

 

[IrishNinja]

cant even think about sony's plans right now, hopefully we'll know next week

I hate this "community" sometimes.

unless court ordered you ain't gotta stay

not bad, though ill prolly RT the other one with the differences

I have a reliable connection.

I don't buy used.

I don't sell my games.

there's lots of rights i don't exercise that i'm not cool with shedding

 

[Pennywise]

I am not planning on reading 100 pages but did we really have some microsoft shills in this thread white knighting this? That is hilarious if true.

There are still alot out there :
Have fun reading...

 

[Jarmel]

There's NO point to ask.

It is 100% not happening. You guys are absolutely nuts if you think they will allow simultaneous use of this stuff.

Even Sony changed their minds with all the game-sharing going on and severely limited it.

They allow people to group buy family accounts in which a person could theoretically only pay $20 compared to $60.

 

[Mr. E. Yis]

HAHAHAHAHA Awesome

Thank you. Took longer to do than I thought. Got the idea from Eusis here.

 

[maabus1999]

Trading in digital games? LOL. Never going to happen.

It would require laws honestly, but yes, hard to make it happen.

 

[JHall]

Does MS realize that some college dorms do not allow consoles to connect to the internet at all?

Why would I go to school there?

 

[TAJ]

Does MS realize that some college dorms do not allow consoles to connect to the internet at all?

Why would you live there?
EDIT: beaten

 

[JaseC]

They did this so you can't go sign into a friends account, have him pull the net and play, and you go back to your box and play while signed in.

I see their logic, agree or disagree, but that is why they did the hour.

I wasn't saying I don't understand the concept.

 

[megamerican]

Not only is this fundamentally fucked up, it's also confusing as hell.

 

[Wildstar75]

Kotaku or anyone really, needs to directly ask about the simultaneous part. This would be a huge deal if even one person is allowed simultaneous use.

Yeah I hope they do. But It's probably another poorly written Microsoft screw up and the real answer is it is going to be one user at a time. Or the definition of family is lives in the same house. And if that is the case I might just have to not buy this console on principle despite any amazing exclusive game they may have. And despite the fact I can easily afford all systems and always buy every system that comes out.

 

[Freshmaker]

They win our hearts but lose the big publishers. They won't do that.

If they still stand to make money of the Ps4 Sony still has them by the balls.

 

[FINALBOSS]

Apps cost basically nothing compared to console games. I can't believe you're even making this comparison.

I think his bigger point (and I didn't read all his posts) is that BECAUSE most people own a smart phone, they understand licensing and DRM bullshit..so they WILL understand the XBO stuff.

 

[CouldBeWorse]

Trading in digital games? LOL. Never going to happen.

Not even gifting/selling one time to a friend?

 

[linkboy]

Does MS realize that some college dorms do not allow consoles to connect to the internet at all?

I think they realize, they just don't care.

 

[maabus1999]

I wasn't saying I don't understand the concept.

Ok. Just thrown off by the "ridiculous" part as there is logic in the decision.

 

[Jarmel]

Reads pretty clear to me. You can always play your games, and one of the family members can play at the same time as you. But yes, they did word this pretty badly.

Right, that's my interpretation but this sounds so insane that I'm not sure they would allow it unless someone quietly put it in there.

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

Why would I go to school there?

When I moved into my college dorm, the first question I ask the tour guide is something like "is your campus' internet connection Microsoft Certified For The Xbox One?" If not, I pop a child's balloon and then I leave, never to return.

 

[NullPointer]

Premium expansion DLC?

Yeah. Free DLC for a lot of small bullshit that is sold right now. Customization features, weapon packs, content like extra missions and/or further reasons to replay.

Premium expansions would be your meaty stuff. Whole new campaigns, large new environments, new characters and classes etc.

Borderlands and Skyrim and GTA4 are the closest to what I'm talking about, if they had more free DLC. Borderlands in particular does a good amount right since they have added quite a few reasons to replay the game, while also adding new content. I'd just argue for more free content along with premium. Free DLC provides incentive to go online with a game and hold on to it, if more can be expected down the line.

 

[sqwarlock]

Ok, so I'm sure it's been said, but if PS4 doesn't ever need to connect to the internet then it's safe to assume that any "call home" DRM wouldn't work. HOWEVER, would this be the impetus for publishers to shun the PS4 if they want that DRM implemented?

Could we see big publishers move away from the always offline console, and pledge exclusivity to the always online one?

 

[EternalTruth]

After Sony reveals their PS4 DRM details, someone should make a thread comparing PS4, Xbox One, and Steam online policies.

 

[SRTtoZ]

I can't believe I read 5000 posts.

 

[Gnub]

They win our hearts but lose the big publishers. They won't do that.

This doesn't make sense! If the consumer has a consumer friendly alternative to the Xbox One then why buy the Xbone? Publishers won't ignore a huge ass install base and if Sony does not have this DRM system they have that on lock. Publishers can threaten to ignore Sony but that's just throwing dollars away.

 

[FINALBOSS]

They allow people to group buy family accounts in which a person could theoretically only pay $20 compared to $60.

Family accounts no longer exist.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

The constant connectivity check is disgusting. Rest, I can live with.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Apps cost basically nothing compared to console games. I can't believe you're even making this comparison.

Quality of apps has increased dramatically. Prices have risen. App makers have fans. Sales have risen and grown. Consoles in a DD-focused market will have to adjust, but I don't see the difference once a certain level of value has been pegged to a certain kind of experience. Why wouldn't my comparison work if prices or content both were adjusted for the new DRM?

 

[CouldBeWorse]

I think they realize, they just don't care.

Bingo

 

[TAJ]

I think his bigger point (and I didn't read all his posts) is that BECAUSE most people own a smart phone, they understand licensing and DRM bullshit..so they WILL understand the XBO stuff.

I've had smartphones for several years and I only put up with it because they're throwaway expenses. Sort of like how not being able to sell Steam games wouldn't bother me as much because of Steam sales.

 

[Raven77]

Guys, i just got put on house arrest for the next two years, but it's okay though cause i never go outside anyway...

 

[Bunta]

Ok, so I'm sure it's been said, but if PS4 doesn't ever need to connect to the internet then it's safe to assume that any "call home" DRM wouldn't work. HOWEVER, would this be the impetus for publishers to shun the PS4 if they want that DRM implemented?

Could we see big publishers move away from the always offline console, and pledge exclusivity to the always online one?

IMO, there's no way they'd forgo the sales they'd receive from a console. And supposedly, it was MS's idea to implement this:

I find that amusing, considering MS was planning on implementing this tech before they even shared it with third parties

 

[Agent Dale Cooper]

Ok, so I'm sure it's been said, but if PS4 doesn't ever need to connect to the internet then it's safe to assume that any "call home" DRM wouldn't work. HOWEVER, would this be the impetus for publishers to shun the PS4 if they want that DRM implemented?

Could we see big publishers move away from the always offline console, and pledge exclusivity to the always online one?

What stops games having a "requires online" sticker?

Would hardly be unprecedented.