Do you think children should be able to die in video games?

Kai Dracon said:
For example, if games began to use children as cannon fodder or targets of apathetic player killing sprees, I think there would be some rather negative effects.
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It's not like it's never been done before. Fallout 1 & 2 and the first Postal come to mind.

Magically immortal kids in games is just dumb.
 
IHaveCandy said:
The MGS5 trailer made me think of this. Usually games will make children invincible just so that the player won't kill them, no matter how silly it looks. If a child dies in a game, it is usually tied to the story deeply and is meant to be a very impactful moment. I can't think of any games that treat children dying as cheaply as adults.

In the MGS5 trailer, you see a child being gutted open for his own good and being choked out, as well as what looks like to be a part of Les Enfants Terribles. It looks like a big part of this story will be about the child soldier program mentioned in the MGS games. How would you feel for example if there was a mission in MGS5 where the soldiers were children that could be killed? Perhaps Snake obviously does not want to kill the children, but it is a possibility for him to do if necessary. Do you think it is too taboo for video games?
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If they can kill your puppy, kill your wife, kill your gold fish, why not?
 
IHaveCandy said:
The MGS5 trailer made me think of this. Usually games will make children invincible just so that the player won't kill them, no matter how silly it looks. If a child dies in a game, it is usually tied to the story deeply and is meant to be a very impactful moment. I can't think of any games that treat children dying as cheaply as adults.

In the MGS5 trailer, you see a child being gutted open for his own good and being choked out, as well as what looks like to be a part of Les Enfants Terribles. It looks like a big part of this story will be about the child soldier program mentioned in the MGS games. How would you feel for example if there was a mission in MGS5 where the soldiers were children that could be killed? Perhaps Snake obviously does not want to kill the children, but it is a possibility for him to do if necessary. Do you think it is too taboo for video games?
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Those aren't really the examples I'd use, and the person who is being gutted is
Paz.

I'd say the scene with the kids and diamonds is pretty grim... if this game does show the downfall of BB, who knows what we will see. I think it's fine, the world is a fucked up place.
 
IHaveCandy said:
The MGS5 trailer made me think of this. Usually games will make children invincible just so that the player won't kill them, no matter how silly it looks. If a child dies in a game, it is usually tied to the story deeply and is meant to be a very impactful moment. I can't think of any games that treat children dying as cheaply as adults.

In the MGS5 trailer, you see a child being gutted open for his own good and being choked out, as well as what looks like to be a part of Les Enfants Terribles. It looks like a big part of this story will be about the child soldier program mentioned in the MGS games. How would you feel for example if there was a mission in MGS5 where the soldiers were children that could be killed? Perhaps Snake obviously does not want to kill the children, but it is a possibility for him to do if necessary. Do you think it is too taboo for video games?
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That child being gutted was most likely Paz, a woman in her 30's lol And I don't those were kids being killed by Snake, if he was even killing anyone at all. Either way I think it's fine but I'm a nihilist

nihilists.jpg
 
How do you guys feel about that MGS5 example? How would you feel about a MGS5 mission where child soldiers are the enemies? Perhaps Snake is trying to do something to aid them, but they've already been trained to attack enemies and whatnot. The game would obviously direct the story so that Snake does not want to kill children, but it is an option if it becomes necessary. Would it feel as though it's going too far?

I have to admit, this scene during the trailer is a lot more impactful for me just because it's a kid. I am really curious to see how things would work if the soldiers I'm shooting at are kids and what I would do.

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intestines1-o.gif
 
Bioshock handled this pretty well. You are free to choose to harvest the little sisters, but there is some gravity to it.
 
tokkun said:
Bioshock handled this pretty well. You are free to choose to harvest the little sisters, but there is some gravity to it.
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That matters little because is really just a black and white moral decision that results in the same gameplay rewards.

And that is kind the another side of the equation: Being moraly simplistic.
 
YouEnjoyMySelf said:
Those aren't really the examples I'd use, and the person who is being gutted is
Paz.

I'd say the scene with the kids and diamonds is pretty grim... if this game does show the downfall of BB, who knows what we will see. I think it's fine, the world is a fucked up place.
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Yeah that scene was pretty grim. I think this game is going to really cover some dark material. I hope they don't take conventional paths with it for the sake of safety.
 
Drazgul said:
It's not like it's never been done before. Fallout 1 & 2 and the first Postal come to mind.

Magically immortal kids in games is just dumb.
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Yeah, but the gaming industry aimed at a certain audience that loves violence has a tendency to go big and go dumb. Postal for instance is a grindhouse product. It's trash and knows it. Back then it was controversial, today Postal-style violence is becoming incorporated into far more popular big-name games.
 
I don't need to kill kids in video games. I wouldn't enjoy that. But then, I'm the kind of player in games like Fallout 3 and Skyrim that feels bad if I do wrong to these fictional characters. Always got to be the good guy. But I will say this, if the game is going to have kids talking smack to me like in Skyrim, then I should be able to give them a good beating. Just saying.
 
Completely fine with it. There shouldn't be any more limitations on a child character than on any other character in a game. No matter the situation.
 
If there's a reason for it in the story, yes.

But when people complain about censorship because they can't kill children in open world games it gets kinda creepy.
 
Children should be able to die in video games like adults, just do it tastefully. Not all adult deaths are tasteful. But remember not all deaths are suitable for other children to see no matter who it is happening to.
 
Absolutely. If it makes sense in the story's context, I couldn't care less about virtual kids. They are usually irritating anyway.
 
It's fiction that can be done in infinite ways. In GTA it may be comical with teddy bears flying all over the sidewalk. In Call of Duty it may be a serious scene in a realistic village or shopping mall. Bottom line is it isn't real.
 
From a realistic viewpoint, yes. If you are trying to replicate the world outside, you need to include everything that happens in real life, otherwise is pure cynicism and hypocrisy.

I mean, videogames are an art (or something comparable to movies or books), right? No, games are not an art (or something comparable to movies or books), at least, until developers have the balls to break with all the archaic conventions that have surrounded industry for years.

There are children dying every day, you see it in the movies, you read it in the books, but you don´t see it in videogames. Why? I dunno, it makes no sense to me.
 
Yes, yes they should especially in Bethesda games. I think they go out of their way to make the kids as annoying and insufferable as all hell in their games. Just because there is nothing you can do about it. The mayor of Little Lamplight is the perfect example. Probably the only kid in all of video games that I wanted to smack around a bit.

Though I doubt it will ever happen. For some reason people would get upset when a bunch of pixels resembling a child is kill-able by the player. I wonder when the industry decided not to allow it. As i remember being able to kill children on older titles like the Fallouts and Deus Ex then one day it was just out of the question. Either by making them invincible or removing them all together.
 
It's pretty annoying in Fallout 3 how you can't kill them. Just have to settle with killing their parents. Still, we should be allowed to blow them up or shoot them in the face or something.

Need to put them in gta too so I can run them over. Or just car jack a car with a kid in it and drive it off a cliff

It's just a game. Nothing should be off limits.
 
I think if death is a real thing. Like we all know it is. Then it can be portrayed in a digital world. Kojima is adding it so it adds the sense of some form of reality within his war themed games. He's making the game as a way of expressing his artistic ability. The world is probably full of taboos and worse. So I don't discredit the man just because he digs deep for motives or themes to show off. Video games, art, movies, music, its all had some sort of feature that expressed unhappiness or some unethical content. If it can be a piece that simply makes you really think about life and the world, or just wait for reactions to see for yourself. Even if its fake. Black Ops 2 had something to do with the whole "child soldier" and so did MGR. If militias run out of men or terrorist they do the evil deed of getting younger troops. Its controversial, very hard to debate, but its true. Which is why I think he's touching on the subject. IMO he wants his series to have this element of shock and awe.

Its for entertainment, but why do we cry at movies? cry at songs? Kojima probably is an artist, but gets discredited because his work is video games.

mw3-child-death-scene.jpg


MW2 went a little bit further with controversy. MW3's scene, IMHO, did not need a consent before playing.

I think finding pleasure in it.. is just sick. But hell, what are you going to do? Twitter hate mail because he's showing crap we never want to witness in our lives? or see? I'll buy the damn game that's for sure. Better than the R-rated crap movies out anymore. Or those lousy new war movies.
 
I don't see why not as long as they're dehumanized. There aren't even zombie children in anything, but Silent Hill got away with the Grey Children.
 
Just like other harsh issues (rape, for example) the death of a child is a powerful storytelling device. In the hands of a capable writer, handled tactfully.... I see no problem with that.

Thing is, we're talking videogames here, the industry where writers go to die. Plus, it's an interactive medium, which means it's way harder to do it right.

Thus: I am torn. I have nothing against heavy themes in videogames per se, but I wouldn't trust this industry to make it taste- and meaningful even on a good budget and with talented people. Then again, categorically denying writers access to the entirety of their palette is bad and limits the potential of the medium. It should be avoided if at all possible.

Final decision: a resounding "it depends".
 
I'm not cool with the player character being able to kill kids in games, no. Hell, I'm good with them being invincible so that I don't accidentally frag them, since it's something I'd be going out of my way to avoid if it was possible. I think it's more of an immersion breaker for there to be no kids in an otherwise-realistic setting than it is for them to be invincible noncombatants, so I'd rather they be unkillable than mysteriously absent.
 
Why not?

What insane world do you live in where torturing people, realistic military simulation with nuclear weapons, mass murdering in various games, racial issues, graphic depictions of sexual acts, online with extraordinarily vile profanity and gender/race insults, and all around general (good natured) psychopathy is ok but killing virtual representations of "children" is not?

PC games had child killing years ago. Ultima VII lets you kill a baby and use it as a backpack. Fallout lets you splatter children into giblets. Nothing changed. The world didn't explode.

Seriously, for ****'s sake.
 
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