TRUTHFACT: MS having eSRAM yield problems on Xbox One

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^ reading that, I must say, had XBL been hacked and been offline for a month, I just can picture Steve Ballmer making a video apolygising for the downtime, let alone bowing in front of a camera to sincerely deliver said apology.
Putting aside the fact that bowing isn't part of that culture, how can you tell how sincere a bow is? Is there a certain depth to the bow that shows hey we really mean this? They would probably apologize. Either way it doesn't matter what they say to you that matters. I remember that bow and people thought it was extremely profound. I couldn't care less. I love my consoles but holding on to everything these pr guys say is ridiculous. What's even more ridiculous is having a double standard about the worthless rhetoric.
 
I think one could argue that there has been set a pattern when taking into account factors from across the entire console reveall and E3 period, that might point to the the notion of MS indeed having bad yields on their new console APU, but yet choosing not to downclock rather take the hit on bad yields and pass the cost across to early adopters of the the system with a high price.

I mean, take a look at a few things:

- the XB1 was revealed and then the rumours came through about bad yields, due to eSRAM, and the potential for a downclock to improve yields.
- we heard that the chip is a huge piece of silicon, which would of course imply bad yields at first, not only because it would mean less chips per wafer but also because the high transistor density of eSRAM would make it more prone to defects that would compromise the usability of the entire APU.
- we've seen the box, and it is indeed monstrously big. Especially compared to the PS4, which many would have expected to be bigger not only because of the bigger GPU but also because of the GDDR5 which can run a little hot at high frequencies. The size of the XB1 box could a sign that more cooling is required compared to Sony, because the processors are running hotter, further subtantiating the large chip rumour.
- games were shown at E3 with many not yet running on actual hardware, which could be considered strange considering how close to release we are.
- after many expecting a lower price than Sony due to GDDR5, MS announced a price $100 greater than their competitor. Which some might argue is function of the cost of Kinect, but the very fact that we know Sony's RAM will command an $80-100 premium on the BOM, it would point to the fact that MS' APU is likely currently costing them considerably more than Sony's is, despite Sony's containing more GPU functional units.
- the rumours, whispering and retail musing here on Gaff, pointing to Sony being able to allocate and produce considerably more consoles than MS for launch, might also be seen as a sign that MS is having yield issues which is restricting the number of consoles they can physically build.

It is important to note that both console providers chose an APU single-chip device this time, as opposed to the dual chip designs of previous generations. One would thus intuit that a single-chip design should entail lower costs, both in fabrication, motherboard design, cooling, assembly, shipping and handling. It is then quite telling that MS decided to announce a console that is considerably more expensive than most previous gen consoles at launch, where Sony went for a reasonable price that could have even been up to $100 cheaper had they decided to opt for less GDDR5 ram or even far cheaper DDR3.

I think all these things could be seen to tell a story, provided one is prepared to attempt to read between the proverbial lines as they say. It could all be nonsense, but where there is smoke there is usually fire in my opinion.
 
i've heard musings the depth sensor in new kinect is really expensive. i got the feeling like $100 expensive, hence 499 while the other guy is 399.

on the good side it should decrease in cost over time unlike the motor they took out.

there's probably some level of esram yields problems, but from what i've heard no downclocking, which is the important thing.

It's also I think reasonable speculation that the ESRAM is raising the cost of XB1 (not including kinect) up to parity with PS4 despite much less expensive RAM.

However if this were true, I'd bet over years the disparity will swing in MS favor there. RAM wont decrease as much, but yields on silicon will get better, as well as shrinks etc.

In the end it's still speculation all around. For all we know, PS4 costs $450 with a 399 price, while Xb1 costs 299 with a 499 price. It isn't likely, but it's possible.
 
I see the same thing in every damn thread. The idea is that Sony is a nobler enterprise. Maybe it is I don't know but that sentiment is only based on perception.

Well we have so many intelligent, well reasoned gamers on GAF. If these guys have a "hunch" or perception of some situation, you can be damn sure they're right on the money.

They're so smart that I guarantee this post goes right over their heads.
 
I see the same thing in every damn thread. The idea is that Sony is a nobler enterprise. Maybe it is I don't know but that sentiment is only based on perception.

The key word is perception, all companies want your money it's a business, although there are ways going about it, give incentives for people to pick your product over the competition and keep offering value, giving incentives to keep loyal customers.

Microsoft did an ass of a job doing this, and their PR dropping some amazing lines like "[We have a console if you don't like these features]... it's called Xbox 360" was basically a middle finger to those who couldn't consider it as a viable platform because they couldn't be online/had bandwidth caps, didn't live in a certain country etc.

Sony being humbled through all the troubles they had with the PS3 coupled with Microsoft being arrogant and jumping off the deep end created the gap that Sony are angels.
 
Well we have so many intelligent, well reasoned gamers on GAF. If these guys have a "hunch" or perception of some situation, you can be damn sure they're right on the money.

They're so smart that I guarantee this post goes right over their heads.

Which is more likely to you?

A.) Phil Spencer is telling the truth.

B.) Multiple sources say MS is having yield problems weeks before the system is up for pre-order. Then, lo and behold, when it is finally up for pre-order it is severely supply constrained.

What a coincidence.
 
The key word is perception, all companies want your money it's a business, although there are ways going about it, give incentives for people to pick your product over the competition and keep offering value, giving incentives to keep loyal customers.

Microsoft did an ass of a job doing this, and their PR dropping some amazing lines like "[We have a console if you don't like these features]... it's called Xbox 360" was basically a middle finger to those who couldn't consider it as a viable platform because they couldn't be online/had bandwidth caps, didn't live in a certain country etc.

Sony being humbled through all the troubles they had with the PS3 coupled with Microsoft being arrogant and jumping off the deep end created the gap that Sony are angels.

I'm sorry are you from bizzaro world. When was Sony humble with the ps3 ? They never were and while we are at it , Sony also started charging for multiplayer a popular rally cry for the sony fans. But hey no one says things about that , lets just gang up on ms and rewrite history.
 
Yes, it is and I'll explain why.

Had Phil Spencer been approached directly by a journalist, or even a gamer face-to-face, any such denial may obviously not be indicative of the truth. However, he could have ignored this tweet if he didn't want to confirm it. But he felt comfortable enough to answer it. If there is a question you're asked on social media that you do not want to answer for whatever reason, you simply ignore it.

Unless, you know, the company benefits from denying it.
 
Why do people in this thread continue to imply that larger die size = higher power consumption? That's absolutely not the case in many scenarios. Does anyone actually know how much power eSRAM consumes?
 
I see the same thing in every damn thread. The idea is that Sony is a nobler enterprise. Maybe it is I don't know but that sentiment is only based on perception.

All that matters is who is being nobler and pro-consumer RIGHT NOW. Not years ago with different management who made poor decisions. Right. Now. Sony is a mega-corp and desires profitability. Nobody denies that. But they're also not spitting into our faces right now. They are not the ones that came up with ways to squeeze more money out of you by giving your games no second hand marketability. Did they consider it? I'm sure they did. But they certainly didn't spend a boatload of money working on and delivering a message of dominance and arrogance over their consumers at this moment.

They would have gotten away with it if their competition wasn't clearly on an even playing field with a cheaper and more pro-consumer game system that was winning the presale numbers by more than 4:1.

But feel free to continue to reward that behavior with your wallet. I fully expect a lot of people to do so. But the 360 ended up in third place with a console that was superior to the PS3 in many areas. It doesn't seem like the XBO has the advantages over their main competition anymore that they had the previous generation. Most expensive, not best specs, required Kinect, lower yield, equal launch date, 21 countries only.
 
CBOAT said 'yes' to both yield issues and a downclock.

As far as I'm concerned, that means these rumours are very likely true. CBOAT's pre-e3 reveal was right on the money. So don't doubt the man.
 
Which is more likely to you?

A.) Phil Spencer is being telling the truth.

B.) Multiple sources say MS is having yield problems weeks before the system is up for pre-order. Then, lo and behold, when it is finally up for pre-order it is severely supply constrained.

What a coincidence.
Haha, seriously. The facts are literally in front of our faces.
 
I'm sorry are you from bizzaro world. When was Sony humble with the ps3 ? They never were and while we are at it , Sony also started charging for multiplayer a popular rally cry for the sony fans. But hey no one says things about that , lets just gang up on ms and rewrite history.

When they made the PS4.

And while I do agree putting online multiplayer behind a paywall is a dick move, they already sold me on PS+ beforehand, plus it's not like people who may migrate from XBL are going to kick up a fuss. :/
 
CBOAT said 'yes' to both yield issues and a downclock.

As far as I'm concerned, that means these rumours are very likely true. CBOAT's pre-e3 reveal was right on the money. So don't doubt the man.

There is no downclock there never was.Richard Ledbetter (Digital Foundary) he asked is contacts and they no nothing and he hasn't heard anything. If CBOAT started this rumour hes wrong, and their are postings over at B3D that also say no downclock.
 
Sony also started charging for multiplayer a popular rally cry for the sony fans. But hey no one says things about that , lets just gang up on ms and rewrite history.

yes, but have you noted that prior to e3 there was at least one thread per day talking about xbox live paywall. conveniently with the announcement of sony that has stopped.
 
CBOAT said 'yes' to both yield issues and a downclock.

As far as I'm concerned, that means these rumours are very likely true. CBOAT's pre-e3 reveal was right on the money. So don't doubt the man.

I thought he said yes about the yield issues but said that if they wanted to increase production with a low yield, they would have to downclock. But if they chose to just keep spending money on defective chips to keep their specs and have lower launch numbers, that was a strong possibility as well. So the downclock is not definite. That's why it's in the "rumor" part of the title and not the "truthfact" part.
 
I'm sorry are you from bizzaro world. When was Sony humble with the ps3 ? They never were and while we are at it , Sony also started charging for multiplayer a popular rally cry for the sony fans. But hey no one says things about that , lets just gang up on ms and rewrite history.
Uhh... how WEREN'T they humbled with PS3's early years? They came in all "yeah, diz shit be 600$ AND YOU'RE GONNA LOVE IT" to this generation and now we have someone like Cerny presenting PS4 in his calm way, being all "we are trying to make a great console and think this is as good as it can be, hopefully you are as excited about it as we are."

And while online gaming not being free on PS4 is crappy, at least they don't hide ALL useful features behind it like Microsoft does, not to even mention Plus actually offers something for that money, unlike Live Gold.
 
But if they chose to just keep spending money on defective chips to keep their specs and have lower launch numbers, that was a strong possibility as well.

I guess that's what they are doing. They might fail to serve all preorders, but gimping their GPU would delay game development even more. And we also had rumors about that being a problem for them.
 
CBOAT said 'yes' to both yield issues and a downclock.

As far as I'm concerned, that means these rumours are very likely true. CBOAT's pre-e3 reveal was right on the money. So don't doubt the man.
One day my fellow GAFfer, one day there won't be anyone who will ever dare to doubt CBOAT.
But for now, some people just want to keep believing that everything is going just like MS has planned regarding production..
 
This whole line of argument about some people allegedly believing Sony to be a "nobler" corporation completely misses the point, and is also completely off topic for this thread.

The PR of every corporation should be distrusted.
 
I just hope that in the coming years Bill Gates will come back as MS CEO and act like this:

I know we fucked up.
But now, I am back. I will clean up this mess.
I will fire every imbecile that is responsible for the downfall of my legacy.
In person if it's necessary.
I beg your pardon, but I have to kick some serious ass now!
 
What the fuck is Spencer gonna say?

"Yeah man, we're having ESRAM yield issues out the ass, we won't have a snowball's chance in hell of filling all these preorders. Also the CPU is gonna get downclocked because we suck at architecture design on our first tries. Shit is HOT. Hopefully normal use won't warp the board and cause the video output to sever like last time."

No, he's going to lie out his teeth (for the moment) and pray that the fabrication issues resolve themselves in time for launch so they can pretend there was never a hiccup in the first place.

This! Common sense is a beautiful thing...
 
I just hope that in the coming years Bill Gates will come back as MS CEO and act like this:

I know we fucked up.
But now, I am back. I will clean up this mess.
I will fire every imbecile that is responsible for the downfall of my legacy.
In person if it's necessary.
I beg your pardon, but I have to kick some serious ass now!

Just Balmer would probably work. They lack direction.
 
CBOAT said 'yes' to both yield issues and a downclock.

As far as I'm concerned, that means these rumours are very likely true. CBOAT's pre-e3 reveal was right on the money. So don't doubt the man.

why didn't he pick up on the drm reversal?

he's taken as gospel but some other discussions from DF say he has been wrong at times.
 
As an aside...CBOAT is a badass username considering what he's doing.
He has this name probably because what he is doing.


Engineer to Balmer :

E: "We have a problem B, someone is leaking info to gaming forums about our problems"
B: "What info ? Who ? Show me !"
E: "He goes by name: crazy buttocks on a train" ?
B: "WTF are you talking about ? Nevermind, continue"
E: "He wrote:

ucan remo.ve RUMUR frmo hte thread tittle TEAMMOD. esram yieldls. are "troubling"toput it lightly.
truthfact.
btw youiw lil not njhear abouthing about tech atMS E3 presentation. tech tarbaby (notracistst!) IS TSTICKIER THAN YOU WIL EVER KNOW. I LOOK FORWARF TO READING THE BOOK BY VENTUREBEAT.
theyMSrushed. --caughtoutbysonychangs. leadershitfailure.p.

B: " Are you insane ? Is that a joke ? Want me to fire you ? Go and do something worthwhile instead of showing me this "thing"
 
Like Phil is going to get on twitter and say "Yes, we are having yield problems" and then wake up in the morning and watch all his stock options lose value.

They could come out and say their console is so advanced that it is very difficult to make and cost a small fortune too... That's exactly what they said about 360.
 
He has this name probably because what he is doing.


Engineer to Balmer :

E: "We have a problem B, someone is leaking info to gaming forums about our problems"
B: "What info ? Who ? Show me !"
E: "He goes by name: crazy buttocks on a train" ?
B: "WTF are you talking about ? Nevermind, continue"
E: "He wrote:

ucan remo.ve RUMUR frmo hte thread tittle TEAMMOD. esram yieldls. are "troubling"toput it lightly.
truthfact.
btw youiw lil not njhear abouthing about tech atMS E3 presentation. tech tarbaby (notracistst!) IS TSTICKIER THAN YOU WIL EVER KNOW. I LOOK FORWARF TO READING THE BOOK BY VENTUREBEAT.
theyMSrushed. --caughtoutbysonychangs. leadershitfailure.p.

B: " Are you insane ? Is that a joke ? Want me to fire you ? Go and do something worthwhile instead of showing me this "thing"

I'd imagine they would take it seriously. If a real employee I don't imagine it'd go well for him/her if they were ever found out. Seems very careful though so hopefully never has to worry about that.
 
why didn't he pick up on the drm reversal?

he's taken as gospel but some other discussions from DF say he has been wrong at times.

What ? CBOAT is part of the reason why there is no DRM now. He confirmed rumors and whole shitstorm happened which made MS go back to not include DRM.
 
but made no mention of the change?


You don't really think major policy decisions that appear to have been essentially made overnight in a panicked attempt to respond to consumer anger, competitor success and poor pre-order numbers is likely to filter down quickly enough to be leaked, do you?

I mean, it's likely cboat is an insider of some sorts, but I'm pretty sure he's not Mattrick.
 
why didn't he pick up on the drm reversal?

he's taken as gospel but some other discussions from DF say he has been wrong at times.

He's taken as gospel because he's almost always right. That's completely undeniable no matter what you or any of the doubters say. He has a better track record than DF.
 
They could come out and say their console is so advanced that it is very difficult to make and cost a small fortune too... That's exactly what they said about 360.

Yeah, and the 360 lost the company $3bn up front and another $1bn because of build quality issues.

I think they will do whatever is necessary to avoid any comparisons to when they launched the 360.

but made no mention of the change?

The DRM reversal came very, very late. Decision made by a few higher ups in a meeting just days before the policy change. CBoaT posted information that was up to date at the time, but hasn't posted since then.
 
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