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[PlayALLtheGames]

Zimmerman is a wannabe hard-ass with a history of overzealous community patrolling.
It was a matter of time before this trigger-happy dipshit ended up in this situation. Now he deserves to be punished for it.

I'm not really sure I care if Trayvon attacked him, either. Zimmerman was stalking him and had a gun. He instigated the confrontation and now he's trying to claim stand your ground.

This crap happens all the time to people who think they're tough guys. They get themselves in real sitcky situations, and either get their asses beat, or contribute to someone's injury or death. Then they try to play the victim.

 

[soundscream]

If Zimmerman does get off, and there is a riot or other type of violance, I completely blame the media.

They are not, at all, showing any strong points from Zimmermans attorny's. They are making it seem as if this trial is over already, that Zimmerman is so obviously guilty, and as if his lawyers are losing terribly.

This isn't the case. Zimmerman's attorney's opened with a horrible joke, but since then have been dismantling and destroying the prosecution.

I just wish the audio on the tape of the person yelling out was clear. I felt it swayed the jury when Martin's mother ran out in tears, when nobody knows, including audio experts, who the hell was yelling. It should not have been allowed, and if she felt she could not take it, she should not have been let in the court room.

Your opinion doesn't = a fact

 

[MooseKing]

This comes up in every thread about this case. Look at the entire sequence of events:

1) Trayvon is walking back to the house he was visiting (a friend of his fathers).
2) Zimmerman spots Trayvon and thinks he looks suspicious, so he begins to follow him in his car, and calls the police.
3) During the phone call with the 911 dispatcher, Zimmerman notes that Trayvon notices him following him, and takes off running.
4) Zimmerman then proceeds to follow Martin on foot.
5) At some point during the ending of Zimmerman's call with the police, and Trayvon's call with his friend/girlfriend, an altercation breaks out, and Zimmerman shoots Martin.

Now, re-read event number 3. According to Zimmerman's own words, Trayvon fled. Does that sound like the actions of someone who was actively looking for trouble? Someone who was looking to get into an altercation with a stranger. He ran away. He tried to remove himself from the situation of being followed by a stranger in a vehicle, and Zimmerman pursued him.

Now, I can't speak to what anyone but myself would have done, but in a similar situation, I would have done the same thing: picked up my walking speed, and if still being followed, outright run away.

Also, contrary to popular belief, most people aren't keen on opening their doors or answering a call from a stranger, and in this country, especially a black male ringing their doorbell or knocking on their door in a panic.

As a young black man, we are taught, at an early age, to behave a certain way so as to not draw attention to ourselves in a way that will make white people uncomfortable. We are also taught not to bang on stranger's doors on a rainy night.

Martin was killed not very far from where he was staying. He probably assumed he'd lose the guy following him, and go home. No need to panic neighbors.

Unfortunately, he was followed, and more than likely, felt threatened by, well, threatening behavior, and tried to defend himself. Unfortunately, Zimmerman had a gun, and like Rock, Paper, Scissors, Gun beats Fist.

Having been on the receiving end of having a stranger follow me, I know what that adrenaline rush and uncomfortableness feels like. I'm not saying I would have started a fight, but I'd have prepared myself to fight. For my life if need be. We're taught to be wary of strangers. Strangers following you in vehicles even moreso. It's simply better to err on the side of caution, even when it turns out that that person just happened to be walking the same way as you.

And with that, I'm done with this stuff for a bit. After the previous two Zimmerman threads, I've already said everything I can possibly say about this case, and it's not really worth the headache repeating myself a few hundred more times.

This is an extremely misleading tale of the "supposed" events that happened.

There is no strong evidence that Zimmerman continued to follow him. In fact, when asked to stop following, he said "ok". On the audio tape you can hear the wind from outside, then stop, the moment he said he would stop following. He didn't have to stop following, of course, because dispatch has no more power over you then I do, but according to him, he did. He was not found far from his vehicle, either. Moreover, the operator on the other end is the one who made him follow Martin, as the operator continued to ask for a description of what Martin looked like, after Zimmerman stated Martin was moving away from him.

I think it is likely that fake-cop Zimmerman started the altercation with Martin, who was obviously not out doing anything wrong. I also think, it is just as likely, that Martin got tired of being followed, and attacked Zimmerman.

Both of those scenarios happen on a daily basis.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Zimmerman is a wannabe hard-ass with a history of overzealous community patrolling.
It was a matter of time before this trigger-happy dipshit ended up in this situation. Now he deserves to be punished for it.

I'm not really sure I care if Trayvon attacked him, either. Zimmerman was stalking him and had a gun. He instigated the confrontation and now he's trying to claim stand your ground.

This crap happens all the time to people who think they're tough guys. They get themselves in real sitcky situations, and either get their asses beat, or contribute to someone's injury or death. Then they try to play the victim.

.

 

[MooseKing]

Zimmerman is a wannabe hard-ass with a history of overzealous community patrolling.
It was a matter of time before this trigger-happy dipshit ended up in this situation. Now he deserves to be punished for it.

I'm not really sure I care if Trayvon attacked him, either. Zimmerman was stalking him and had a gun. He instigated the confrontation and now he's trying to claim stand your ground.

This crap happens all the time to people who think they're tough guys. They get themselves in real sitcky situations, and either get their asses beat, or contribute to someone's injury or death. Then they try to play the victim.

This is also misleading.

First off, it doesn't matter if you care or not that Trayvon attacked him. It matters what the specific law is.

Second, Zimmerman wasn't stalking him. Zimmerman thought he looked suspicious, because of the huge number of break ins, in that area. Zimmerman called the police, and told the police Martin was moving away from him. Dispatch asked Zimmerman for a continued description of Martin. This caused Zimmerman to follow him and continue with a description. When dispatch asked if Zimmerman was following, and he said yes, they asked him to "stop". He replied "okay".

I don't think he is a wannabe tough guy. I think he is a wannabe cop. Two different things. Wannabe tough guys are people you see sucker punching others in videos online. Fake cops are, well, Zimmerman.

It does matter if Trayvon attacked him. In Florida, under the law, Zimmerman had the right to defend himself. There is no need, no matter who you are, to start a fight with someone because you think they may be following you.

Now do I agree with Florida law, of fucking course not. Florida is completely backwards. However at the end of the day "what you feel", should have no impact on the trial. That is bias, it's what gets you disbarred when being a lawyer, and can cause major corruption in a jury.

If the jury's personal feelings make the decision in this case, over the evidence, no matter which way those feelings tilt, the American Justice system failed.

 

[Van Owen]

You never answered my question. Zimmerman's non-emergency phone call ended TWO MINUTES BEFORE Trayvon's phone call to his girlfriend ended. He was killed about a minute later. Now you tell me, if Zimmerman immediately ended his pursuit and started walking back to his car after his phone call ended, how did he end up in a confrontation with Trayvon who was still on the phone two whole minutes after Zimmerman's call ended?

It's possible that he said "someone is following me" even if that person stopped flowing 0-120 earlier seconds.

Again, there's no eveience that Zimmer DIDN'T stop following him of that he initiated a physical confrontation.

 

[TS-08]

This is also misleading.

First off, it doesn't matter if you care or not that Trayvon attacked him. It matters what the specific law is.

Second, Zimmerman wasn't stalking him. Zimmerman thought he looked suspicious, because of the huge number of break ins, in that area. Zimmerman called the police, and told the police Martin was moving away from him. Dispatch asked Zimmerman for a continued description of Martin. This caused Zimmerman to follow him and continue with a description. When dispatch asked if Zimmerman was following, and he said yes, they asked him to "stop". He replied "okay".

I don't think he is a wannabe tough guy. I think he is a wannabe cop. Two different things. Wannabe tough guys are people you see sucker punching others in videos online. Fake cops are, well, Zimmerman.

It does matter if Trayvon attacked him. In Florida, under the law, Zimmerman had the right to defend himself. There is no need, no matter who you are, to start a fight with someone because you think they may be following you.

Now do I agree with Florida law, of fucking course not. Florida is completely backwards. However at the end of the day "what you feel", should have no impact on the trial. That is bias, it's what gets you disbarred when being a lawyer, and can cause major corruption in a jury.

If the jury's personal feelings make the decision in this case, over the evidence, no matter which way those feelings tilt, the American Justice system failed.

This isn't a Stand Your Ground Case. Not sure why you are singling out Florida.

 

[CrimsonCommie]

Did the judge rule they could use the earlier 911 calls?

Edit: apparently she did.

 

[BSsBrolly]

This is an extremely misleading tale of the "supposed" events that happened.

There is no strong evidence that Zimmerman continued to follow him. In fact, when asked to stop following, he said "ok". On the audio tape you can hear the wind from outside, then stop, the moment he said he would stop following. He didn't have to stop following, of course, because dispatch has no more power over you then I do, but according to him, he did. He was not found far from his vehicle, either. Moreover, the operator on the other end is the one who made him follow Martin, as the operator continued to ask for a description of what Martin looked like, after Zimmerman stated Martin was moving away from him.

I think it is likely that fake-cop Zimmerman started the altercation with Martin, who was obviously not out doing anything wrong. I also think, it is just as likely, that Martin got tired of being followed, and attacked Zimmerman.

Both of those scenarios happen on a daily basis.

Asking what someone looks like is not telling Zimmerman to follow him... Wtf and the altercation took place far from Zimmermans truck...

 

[GungHo]

Unfortunately I've been doing hearings of my own the last two days so I haven't caught much of the recent testimony.

What kind of lawyer are you? You're supposed to be working on non-billiables for our amusement.

Quit trying to pretend if you knew absolutely zero about this case and I told you nothing but "Zimmerman is on trial in Florida for shooting and killing an unarmed teen" your first thought wouldn't automatically be "Zimmerman is guilty of murder".

What is the alternate title that you would prefer?

You never answered my question. Zimmerman's non-emergency phone call ended TWO MINUTES BEFORE Trayvon's phone call to his girlfriend ended. He was killed about a minute later. Now you tell me, if Zimmerman immediately ended his pursuit and started walking back to his car after his phone call ended, how did he end up in a confrontation with Trayvon who was still on the phone two whole minutes after Zimmerman's call ended?

Talking on the cell phone while fighting is as dangerous as drinking and fighting.

 

[hayguyz]

What is the alternate title that you would prefer?

Man kills aggressor in self defense

 

[ElFly]

This is an extremely misleading tale of the "supposed" events that happened.

There is no strong evidence that Zimmerman continued to follow him. In fact, when asked to stop following, he said "ok". On the audio tape you can hear the wind from outside, then stop, the moment he said he would stop following. He didn't have to stop following, of course, because dispatch has no more power over you then I do, but according to him, he did. He was not found far from his vehicle, either. Moreover, the operator on the other end is the one who made him follow Martin, as the operator continued to ask for a description of what Martin looked like, after Zimmerman stated Martin was moving away from him.

Not completely sure if it matters if Zimmerman followed him or was actually looking for an address; from Martin's point of view he tried to lose Zimmerman, and then Zimmerman appeared next to him.

 

[ElFly]

Man kills aggressor in self defense

Why are you assuming Trayvon was the agressor. Does he not deserve innocence until proven guilty too?

 

[GaimeGuy]

Nice, the more holes poked in Zimmerman's story, the better.

The prosecution must have some damn good evidence if they decided to go for more than manslaughter. I will celebrate when Zimmerman is locked up.

You don't understand the difference between manslaughter and murder.

Though Florida does not classify types of manslaughter between voluntary and involuntary manslaughter, I think the distinction between 2nd degree murder and manslaughter becomes clearer if we break it down as such.

An example of involuntary manslaughter would be a drunk driving related death. Something where you exhibit criminally-negligent behavior, but unintentionally and without intent to kill bring about the death of another person.

Both 2nd degree murder and voluntary manslaughter are committed on the spot, with the intent to kill. However, voluntary manslaughter is typically a heat of passion thing, a result of circumstances that could be expected to leave someone in an emotionally disturbed or unstable state of mind. 2nd degree murder does not have this component.

Note that getting into a fight and having an adrenaline rush which results in you killing someone doesn't downgrade something from 2nd degree murder to voluntary manslaughter. However, something like getting into a fight as a result of discovery of marrital infidelity that ends up with you killing someone could be classified as voluntary manslaughter instead of 2nd degree murder, depending on the other details of the case.


Zimmerman's killing of Trayvon does not constitute involuntary manslaughter because it was not an "accident." You don't shoot someone in the chest accidentally. You don't follow them around accidentally. You don't ignore police dispatch when they suggest not to follow someone around accidentally. You don't engage someone you believe to be a criminal accidentally.

It was not voluntary manslaughter, because it was not a heat of passion thing. There was no good reason for Zimmerman to end up in confrontation with Trayvon. He was not in a disturbed state. He was in contact with authorities while pursuing Trayvon. He knew what he was doing the whole time. He was playing cop, and his gun was his insurance policy for his authority.

That leaves either 2nd degree or 1st degree murder. It was not premeditated, so it isn't 1st degree murder. Although I suspect some countries might find following someone around with a gun that you end up killing them with to be 1st degree murder (but the us has a much, MUCH more tolerant culture when it comes to firearms, so I'm not surprised 1st degree isn't applied here.)


Just because george didn't plan to kill trayvon doesn't mean it wasn't murder.

 

[Brawndo Addict]

Asking what someone looks like is not telling Zimmerman to follow him... Wtf and the altercation took place far from Zimmermans truck...

The defense attorney wasn't even suggesting that line about what he looked like was the one that Zimmerman might have taken as a command. He specifically pointed out the "let me know if he does anything else" and "which way was he running" as the possible statements which could be interpreted as commands.

And no reasonable person would ever interpret such a statement from a 911 operator as a command to go and follow a suspect to gather more information. The defense is free to argue that Zimmerman had an unreasonable, but sincere belief he was being commanded to do so, but you're crazy if you think the jury is going to believe that.

You can't use deadly force if you're the aggressor, and that's one of the critical questions of this trial. You can be the aggressor without actually physically initiating the fight.

 

[MooseKing]

Asking what someone looks like is not telling Zimmerman to follow him... Wtf and the altercation took place far from Zimmermans truck...

Dispatch admitted, during the trial, that by asking someone what they look like, and asking for a continued description, could indeed make a person follow.

 

[BSsBrolly]

You don't understand the difference between manslaughter and murder.

Though Florida does not classify types of manslaughter between voluntary and involuntary manslaughter, I think the distinction between 2nd degree murder and manslaughter becomes clearer if we break it down as such.

An example of involuntary manslaughter would be a drunk driving related death. Something where you exhibit criminally-negligent behavior, but unintentionally and without intent to kill bring about the death of another person.

Both 2nd degree murder and voluntary manslaughter are committed on the spot, with the intent to kill. However, voluntary manslaughter is typically a heat of passion thing, a result of circumstances that could be expected to leave someone in an emotionally disturbed or unstable state of mind. 2nd degree murder does not have this component.

Note that getting into a fight and having an adrenaline rush which results in you killing someone doesn't downgrade something from 2nd degree murder to voluntary manslaughter. However, something like getting into a fight as a result of discovery of marrital infidelity that ends up with you killing someone could be classified as voluntary manslaughter instead of 2nd degree murder, depending on the other details of the case.


Zimmerman's killing of Trayvon does not constitute involuntary manslaughter because it was not an "accident." You don't shoot someone in the chest accidentally. You don't follow them around accidentally. You don't ignore police dispatch when they suggest not to follow someone around accidentally. You don't engage someone you believe to be a criminal accidentally.

It was not voluntary manslaughter, because it was not a heat of passion thing. There was no good reason for Zimmerman to end up in confrontation with Trayvon. He was not in a disturbed state. He was in contact with authorities while pursuing Trayvon. He knew what he was doing the whole time. He was playing cop, and his gun was his insurance policy for his authority.

That leaves either 2nd degree or 1st degree murder. It was not premeditated, so it isn't 1st degree murder. Although I suspect some countries might find following someone around with a gun that you end up killing them with to be 1st degree murder (but the us has a much, MUCH more tolerant culture when it comes to firearms, so I'm not surprised 1st degree isn't applied here.)


Just because george didn't plan to kill trayvon doesn't mean it wasn't murder.

Why couldn't it be charged as involuntary manslaughter? Zimmerman can make the argument (and is) that he wasn't following Trayvon with the intention of getting into an altercation.

 

[BSsBrolly]

Dispatch admitted, during the trial, that by asking someone what they look like, and asking for a continued description, could indeed make a person follow.

I'm glad dispatch is a human psychology expert.

I sure as hell wouldn't take that as a command.

 

[LilZippa]

Dispatch admitted, during the trial, that by asking someone what they look like, and asking for a continued description, could indeed make a person follow.

Yeah telling someone not to pursue followed by event and person descriptions sure tells me that I should ignore the first half and run after him.

 

[Brawndo Addict]

Dispatch admitted, during the trial, that by asking someone what they look like, and asking for a continued description, could indeed make a person follow.

I do not remember this exchange. I do recall what I recounted in my post above, and that the defense asked whether "which way was he running" could possibly be interpreted as a command to follow. Of course the dispatcher has to admit it's possible, anything is possible. The key issue is whether it would have been reasonable to do so. And I guarantee you no jury is going to believe it would be reasonable to make such an interpretation. And it's important to note that the defense has yet to claim that Zimmerman actually did take it as a command to follow, merely that a person could possibly do so.

 

[TunaMarshmallow]

Alright. They just called the "star witness" -- the young woman that Martin was speaking o on the phone prior to the physical conflict with Zimmerman.

 

[BronsonLee]

Alright. They just called the "star witness" -- the young woman that Martin was speaking o on the phone prior to the physical conflict with Zimmerman.

Dis gun be gud

Defense better bring the heat or problems are afoot

 

[GaimeGuy]

Why couldn't it be charged as involuntary manslaughter? Zimmerman can make the argument (and is) that he wasn't following Trayvon with the intention of getting into an altercation.

because when you point a gun at someone, the intent is to kill?

Automatically that rules out involuntary manslaughter.

 

[Dude Abides]

Girlfriend on the stand now. She doesn't have a great demeanor for a witness so far.

 

[hayguyz]

Girlfriend on the stand now. She doesn't have a great demeanor for a witness so far.

credibility gone

 

[Van Owen]

Talking on the cell phone while fighting is as dangerous as drinking and fighting.

"George Zimmerman trial starts today"?

Labeling someone a "killer" leads to preconceived notions about their character, despite what some people here say.

If the woman in that recent home invasion video had shot and killed the intruder, none of you would refer to her as "*insert name here* (killer of unarmed black man)."

 

[Ohnonono]

She is not saying anything wrong but she is not coming off very well. Seems frustrated to be there.

 

[Devolution]

Some people seem to be conflating murder with killing. Killing is ending a life. Murder is purposefully doing so. Jesus. Learn words.

 

[KibblesBits]

She is not saying anything wrong but she is not coming off very well. Seems frustrated to be there.

Would someone really enjoy being questioned on television for a long time about a horrible event that occurred?

 

[jorma]

Some people seem to be conflating murder with killing. Killing is ending a life. Murder is purposefully doing so. Jesus. Learn words.

Murder is an illegal killing. It's a legal term. Not all killings are murder just because they were on purpose.

 

[Zep]

creepy ass crackas!

 

[Dude Abides]

"George Zimmerman trial starts today"?

Labeling someone a "killer" leads to preconceived notions about their character, despite what some people here say.

If the woman in that recent home invasion video had shot and killed the intruder, none of you would refer to her as "*insert name here* (killer of unarmed black man)."

Zimmerman killed Martin. Is that true or not?

We don't have a video here, so your analogy is dumb.

 

[Ohnonono]

Holy shit. She just said Martin called said that a "creepy-ass cracker" was following him.

 

[KibblesBits]

creepy ass crackas!

yeeesh

 

[Seeds]

"George Zimmerman trial starts today"?

Labeling someone a "killer" leads to preconceived notions about their character, despite what some people here say.

If the woman in that recent home invasion video had shot and killed the intruder, none of you would refer to her as "*insert name here* (killer of unarmed black man)."

Seeing as we actually know what happened, the thread would have been named "*insert name here* (killer who defended herself against man who was assulting her)."

 

[R3TRO]

creepy ass crackas!

Yeah this made me smh.

 

[Van Owen]

Some people seem to be conflating murder with killing. Killing is ending a life. Murder is purposefully doing so. Jesus. Learn words.

And yet no one refers to a person that killed in an act of self defense a KILLER.

 

[Devolution]

Murder is an illegal killing. It's a legal term. Not all killings are murder just because they were on purpose.

Murder isn't even an illegal killing depending on circumstance thanks to justifiable homicide.

And yet no one refers to a person that killed in an act of self defense a KILLER.

Because those are usually people who were followed not doing the following.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Holy shit. She just said Martin called said that a "creepy-ass cracker" was following him.

Word.

 

[KibblesBits]

It's not that difficult to understand her, she's just soft spoken.

 

[Snowden's Secret]

http://www.theonion.com/articles/the-case-for-and-against-george-zimmerman,32941/

 

[Zep]

Yeah this made me smh.

I'd say the same thing.

 

[faceless007]

She's just not good at enunciating. The stress of the courtroom probably isn't helping.

Uh-oh. "cracker." Fox is going to run that one for hours.

 

[Dude Abides]

And yet no one refers to a person that killed in an act of self defense a KILLER.

Zimmerman's been acquitted now? What's this trial all about then?

 

[R3TRO]

I'd say the same thing.

Yeah but hearing this in court was quite a moment for me lol.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

She's just not good at enunciating. The stress of the courtroom probably isn't helping.

Uh-oh. "cracker." Fox is going to run that one for hours.

Hours? Years.

 

[faceless007]

LOL, judge slapping down the defense for complaining about not being able to see witnesses for the first time.

 

[Mr. Patch]

Creepy ass cracker and might be a rapist.

lmao

 

[Brawndo Addict]

And yet no one refers to a person that killed in an act of self defense a KILLER.

It has yet to be determined whether Zimmerman had the right to use deadly force in self defense.

 

[Van Owen]

Because those are usually people who were followed not doing the following.

Uh huh, all Zimmerman did was follow him until he was 12 inches so he could shoot him in the chest. Thanks for the unbiased explanation.

It has yet to be determined whether Zimmerman had the right to use deadly force in self defense.

Zimmerman's been acquitted now? What's this trial all about then?

Not sure if you guys know how it works here, but he's innocent until proven guilty.

Again, labeling him "killer" gives preconceived notions about his character. End of story.