Yo, that looks fucking awesome. So excited for it. And I think it's pretty cool Platinum Games probably still has more than half a year to even further polish the game!
WiiU "Latte" GPU Die Photo - GPU Feature Set And Power Analysis
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Yo, that looks fucking awesome. So excited for it. And I think it's pretty cool Platinum Games probably still has more than half a year to even further polish the game!
ArchangelWest
Member
That game is crazy. The size and detail on those monsters... And it's not some fixed camera gimmick either. Up down, all around, and destructible environment to boot. I can't wait.
Is that last scene all rendered in realtime!?! DAMN!
:confession: i don't own a 360 or PS3... so i never played this game!
I never tire of watching that Gomorrah boss fight. The game has to be pushing a ridiculous amount of polys there unless they've used tesselation to disguise a lower poly model. And there are still people that are denying that Bayonetta 2, X, Mario Kart 8, Donkey Kong and Super Smash Bros. look like 'next gen' titles. The mind really does boggle. 
/
Edit: And why the fuck don't these useless gaming journalists ask Sega or Nintendo whether Sega are going to port the first game to be made available in the eShop only at a budget price..? It would be a no-brainer question imo, and even if Sega haven't considered doing this it might give them an idea to do it!!!
/Edit: And why the fuck don't these useless gaming journalists ask Sega or Nintendo whether Sega are going to port the first game to be made available in the eShop only at a budget price..? It would be a no-brainer question imo, and even if Sega haven't considered doing this it might give them an idea to do it!!!
Vermillion
Banned
I never tire of watching that Gomorrah boss fight. The game has to be pushing a ridiculous amount of polys there unless they've used tesselation to disguise a lower poly model. And there are still people that are denying that Bayonetta 2, X, Mario Kart 8, Donkey Kong and Super Smash Bros. look like 'next gen' titles. The mind really does boggle.
You should look at FFXV and The Division. Leagues beyond what we've seen here.
Looking 'next gen' doesn't necessarily mean that the IQ is on a par with the PS4 and One, just that the games in question look beyond the capabilities of the previous gen machines. And those games I've listed do and are imo.
Don't look at the division
JordanN
Banned
It's next gen the same way Wii looked better than Gamecube/PS2. Nice but nothing really worth celebrating about. And that's probably where alot of the sentiment lies.I never tire of watching that Gomorrah boss fight. The game has to be pushing a ridiculous amount of polys there unless they've used tesselation to disguise a lower poly model. And there are still people that are denying that Bayonetta 2, X, Mario Kart 8, Donkey Kong and Super Smash Bros. look like 'next gen' titles. The mind really does boggle.
Edit: And why the fuck don't these useless gaming journalists ask Sega or Nintendo whether Sega are going to port the first game to be made available in the eShop only at a budget price..? It would be a no-brainer question imo, and even if Sega haven't considered doing this it might give them an idea to do it!!!
Edit: Why do I have a feeling I've seen this user before? The posting patterns seem familiar...
Vermillion
Banned
No, I meant... Well let me explain it easiest I can: watch the watch dogs reveal trailer. Then go watch the most recent console build on the ps4 on jimmy Fallon.
Smurfman256
Member
I would be impressed that Bayonetta 2 is able to be played on the TV and Gamepad at the same time...if I didn't know how Gamepad streaming worked.
Smurfman256
Member
11:24...Holy Crap, look at that city...
No idea, haven't been posting for long.
Vermillion
Banned
Ah, true. Watch_Dogs is being made for two generations, though.
The difference should be quite a bit bigger than Wii versus Gamecube, but it's becoming a lot less noticeable. You need a lot more power to get slightly better results these days.
Which makes the dips to 15fps on the ps4 all that much more an example of what I was getting at.
Maybe I'm cynical, but Watch_Dogs has seen some massive downgrades since it was revealed, and I expect the same for The Division. This is Ubisoft we're talking about, and they're no strangers to Colonial Marines/ Star Wars Kinect/ Killzone 2 reveal shenanigans. Because, as far as I know, Division wasn't actually playable. There were only demonstrations played "live" by Ubisoft employees. Same thing with Watch_Dogs, same thing with Colonial Marines. And that was all bullshit as we know today. CG movies with actors pretending to play the game.
With Nintendo, you can at least rest assured that they won't bullshit you. Whatever they show is usually an actual in-progress build, with the final release looking at least as good. More often than not, the final release looks better.
lwilliams3
Member
Hmm, now what about FFXV? That actually was a long-overdue current-gen project until it was moved. I'm curious on how well that game will be.
Which is the concept that the term "diminishing returns" actually refers to. I've seen quite a few people misuse that phrase.
I'm not holding my breath. There was a line in the Wii U changelog that listed them as using assets from the 360/PS3 version or something like that.
I'm expecting another Arkham City/Revelation HD. Same with Watchdogs. I have a feeling that people who are going to be extremely disappointed if they are expecting something fantastic. Its just a port, and the Wii U is not the lead platform for it nor is it the focus of the main dev team. It won't be good example of the hardware's strength at all, but I know people are going to draw such conclusions just like they with worse launch ports.
If either game had a huge amount of effort put into it, then we would have heard more about it. They would be marketing the enhancements. The devs comment gives off the same air as the comment by the dev of Alien's Colonial Mars when he said the Wii U version was the best.
I doubt either of these games will tell us anything about the GPU capabilities.
Smurfman256
Member
what I've read is that certain computational and control aspects are based off of the PS3/360 versions (the memory allocation, analog-stick use, ect.)
Smurfman256
Member
you mean like how KZ: Shadowfall doesn't really look that much more impressive than KZ2 (aside from actually having colour)?
It doesn't look that much more impressive because it doesn't have any of the buzz features that make other shooters on PC look so good.
I didn't see a good use of Bokeh, and the textures of the buildings were obviously flat. Moreover, they stuck with deferred rendering, it seems.
So, all that added up, you're not getting a big jump.
Honestly I don't find the gameplay videos of KZ4 that impressive. Sure it's not finish but I was disappointing a bit after the initial video looked much better. KZ4 gameplay video
Smurfman256
Member
So apparently Pikmin 3 is only about 4GB...
...I sure hope that this was a looooooooooong-ass game on Wii.
...I sure hope that this was a looooooooooong-ass game on Wii.
OG_Original Gamer
Member
Well, it isn't a launch port, so it SMS has definitely gotten enough time to leverage the 32MB of EDRAM by optimizing code for specifically.
megabytecr
Member
Right now it is better to have expectations low and be surprised.
Nintendo E3 for me at least has confirmed that games will look great and even if power is the same as this gen, the extra ram and GPU features certainly is showing in the games. Really happy with what is coming.
Nintendo E3 for me at least has confirmed that games will look great and even if power is the same as this gen, the extra ram and GPU features certainly is showing in the games. Really happy with what is coming.
Please take a look. I continue to say this is a significant improvement. I tried the best screens I could get from both games to be fair at the same resolution 720p.
I am really happy with this comparison, Bayo 2 looking a lot better and running at 60fps. And this is Platinum's second game on the Wii U.
Bayonetta 1
Bayonetta 2
This is certainly showing a much larger scale of capability.
More polygons in the models. All around more geometry for that. Much higher resolution textures and better shading. All of this on top of running at a higher frame rate. I"ve see a few rumors dropped that this is aiming for 60 FPS at 1080p. It will be interesting to see if that is true.
It would point to Latte being far more next gen than everyone believed. Then again, this comparison alone already does that for me. The fact that it is running at a higher frame rate on average while push more detail speaks for itself. This is no last gen hardware.
We need to get more images for analysis of Monolith's unnamed project.
freezamite
Banned
This bayonetta pic comparison is what I was expecting since I saw the video of Bayonetta 2. The difference was so huge compared to the original, that it seemed to me that anyone saying there wasn't an improvement was literally blind (maybe it was the same that was saying that SM3DWorld's lighting was the same as SMG) or simply trolling.
I'm glad that now we can see that difference in static images.
The difference in the lighting is HUGE. There's also a huge jump in texture quality and polygon count. If those 60fps are constant and there aren't frequent drops, it would also be a great improvement compared to the 45-50 fps of the Xbox 360 version of the first Bayonetta.
To me, this game is beyond Xbox 360 and PS3 capabilities overall, and proves what most of us in this thread already knew, the WiiU is a step beyond PS3/60. I would say that the difference could be comparable to the one we saw between N64 and Dreamcast, but because of the diminishing returns the graphical jump won't be that huge.
I'm glad that now we can see that difference in static images.
The difference in the lighting is HUGE. There's also a huge jump in texture quality and polygon count. If those 60fps are constant and there aren't frequent drops, it would also be a great improvement compared to the 45-50 fps of the Xbox 360 version of the first Bayonetta.
To me, this game is beyond Xbox 360 and PS3 capabilities overall, and proves what most of us in this thread already knew, the WiiU is a step beyond PS3/60. I would say that the difference could be comparable to the one we saw between N64 and Dreamcast, but because of the diminishing returns the graphical jump won't be that huge.
Mr. Wonderful
Member
Not that surprising. Look at the textures. Yes, a selection of them have improved, but many aren't high resolution.
megabytecr
Member
Yes, even if it is only more RAM, higher memory bandwidth, better GPU features (lightning, shading, tessellation, etc) but the same power they are surely showing in the differences, and there is no better comparison than Bayo1 vs Bayo2.
At one time Iwata seemed really bummed out about the Wii U Power image in the media and he said they had to do a better job at showing that this was not the case. I was really happy that at E3 they left a good impression in this regards, with good graphics and 60fps in most titles. In general I saw here in GAF positive comments about how the games were looking, specially MK8, X, Bayo2 and SSB.
JordanN
Banned
Oh man...
I'm just spectating. But comments like this just needs to be put on the spotlight.
On a related note, I wonder how taxing Bayonetta was for PS3/360? The original isn't that impressive anymore and the sequel was being made on the same hardware so there could be improvements (i.e Uncharted to Uncharted 2).
Pretty much this ^^^
I'd also add Donkey Kong to that list too.
It really does remind me of the people that were saying that the Wii U third party sizzle reel games from E3 2011 all looked better on the PS3 and 360 lol...mind you we're most probably talking about the exact same people in both instances.
freezamite
Banned
I agree with you except for one thing, and that is your definition of "power". What is "power" exactly?
To me power is what a hardware can do globally, and besides pure technical curiosity that's all that matters.
Bayonetta 2 is a clear step in every single area. Polygons, textures, framerate, lighting and other effects (like the rain over the demon's skin, I never saw anything like that on the original one) are improved/added in comparison to what they could do with the 360. And this is power, of course.
If this power comes from more spu/cores, better memory layout, new and more advanced features supported by hardware or a combination of the three it only matters from a speculative perspective (we can try to guess how good can the console or what could be done based on that), but it doesn't change what we see and what we have.
At the end of the day, power is power and it doesn't matter if you get it through more brute force or a more efficient design.
megabytecr
Member
Man Uncharted and TLOU, all from Naughty Dog is on a league of its own. I am playing Uncharted 3 and that game looks amazing, so next gen among the current gen. But we know them and Sony Santa Monica really pushed the PS3 even at early stages, Uncharted 2 and GoW 3.
Looking at Bayo 1 it released early 2010 so I would give you that "maybe" they could have pulled off a better sequel on the HD twins, but we will never know. But Bayo 2 is eclipsing that on so many levels that I think it would still trump a Bayo sequel on the twins. We will never know for sure.
OG_Original Gamer
Member
How much of a factor does shader cores or SPU's or ALU's have on power (i.e voltage, watts)? How about geometry engines, and ROPS?
prag16
Banned
To be fair, he followed that up with "but because of the diminishing returns the graphical jump won't be that huge."
Anyway, regarding your post, be careful of fallling into trap of implying that game xyz on PS360 "wasn't that taxing" or "didn't nearly max out" PS360 while also implying that game abc is the best Wii U can do.
Smurfman256
Member
On that subject, I think that MGSV gives us a pretty damn good idea of what the PS3/360 can do. That trailer at Micro$hite's E3 conference? Kojima confirmed that the trailer was made using current gen assets.
prag16
Banned
Wait, what?
Was it also running on current gen consoles? If it was just current gen assets, but running on xbone type hardware that isn't directly indicative of the capabilities of PS360.
Anyway, source?
EDIT: Found the old gaf thread about this. The E3 demo was running on a PC, but using assets "more tuned to current gen". Still probably a stretch say the trailer "gives us a pretty damn good idea what PS360 can do". You think those consoles could run that demo as is? You can't tell me they could, but Wii U couldn't.
Smurfman256
Member
We don't know what Wii U can REALLY do because nobody wants to try and make photo-realistic visuals like MGSV on it. Hell, even Kojima is afraid to test the FOX engine on Wii U. (BTW, I don't count Bayonetta 2 as "photo-realistic", I view it as a stylized anime if anime characters had realistic shading *like the newer Final Fantasy games*).
freezamite
Banned
Why don't you quote the whole phrase instead of manipulating it? In terms of pure performance increase (real world performance) I'm sure that the difference is as big or even more.
The jump in appreciable graphical quality, on the other hand, will be much smaller.
Even the appreciable jump between Last of Us and The Division is smaller than the one between Zelda MM or Perfect Dark and Shenmue 2.
specialguy
Banned
year 7 software vs launch software.
I'm not sure the "launch software" argument works all that well for PS4 and Xbone, considering those two systems are essentially small PCs. And PCs are an extremely well understood platform. Not to mention Ubisoft Massive used to be a PC developer first and foremost, so they're right at home.
I believe it still applies pretty well. PCs has thousand of different hardware configurations that your games has to be able to run on. With a console you can optimize really well for one hardware configuration This is a huge advantage that I believe is not really utilized in the first round of games.
Edit: Forget what I said, you are probably right.
freezamite
Banned
1. As wisppel said, those console architectures are almost identical to what can be found on a PC. Of course, the PS4 being the most similar and the Xbox One being a bit different, but nothing comparable to PS3 vs PC, PS2 vs PC or even WiiU vs PC.
2. You are speaking of the years a company has been working on software for a certain architecture, but forgetting conveniently about the hardware difference. Between the N64 and the DC there was a 2 years hardware jump, while Xbox One will be released 8 years later than Xbox 360 and PS4 7 years latter than the PS3 (and the PS3 was launched in 2006 because of the Blu-Ray unit, if it wasn't for that, it would've launched in 2005. This means that in terms of chips, the PS3 is a 2005 console, so 8 years in hardware improvements here as well).
3. Perfect Dark vs Shenmue 2 is a 4 year software vs a 2-3 year software on the console-life. In fact, the ability of a certain studio to squeeze a certain console hardware depends entirely on their architecture.
Dreamcast was a pretty straightforward architecture and since Sega had been programming for the AM2 arcades (Dreamcast +) they already had experience on the console even before release.
On the other hand, things like the PS2 (overall), PS3, Xbox 360 (those two thanks to their CPU design, because the GPUs were pretty standard in terms of programming) or the WiiU (overall customized architecture, although nothing as weird as PS3's Cell/360's Xenon) weren't/aren't as easy to squeeze.
The main area of improvement these next years will be new algorithms that hadn't been used on the PC due to videogames development being console-focused for the most part, so there is still a considerable room for improvement on those consoles as well, but this doesn't invalidate what I said.
You weren't saying this when people were comparing year 7 software versus Wii U launch games...
*shrugs*
prag16
Banned
Came in here to say this. Same song and dance: Wii U is maxed out at all times, every other console has limitless room to grow. -_-
Vermillion
Banned
Possibly because sources place Wii U as pretty close to last gen.
It'd be as if PS360 were just released with those end-of-life games. To be fair, we don't know if PS360 are maxed out either...
JordanN
Banned
When the Wii U can at least run most of its games at double the resolution of last gen, your comment might not have been highlighted. Appreciable quality doesn't change this.
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