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[metalslimer]

Last thing I'll say about Vita here, so as not to derail this thread:

I don't agree at all that with the implication that there were no bad decisions made regarding the Vita hardware; it's an overengineered Spruce Goose of a product designed for a market that doesn't exist. Whose job was it to approve the hardware design decisions Cerny made? Hirai's.

As for the bolded: that may or may not be true (I lean towards not), but it hasn't been confirmed anywhere that I know of.

There is no reason Sony should be losing money on it besides the initial R&D that Sony will likely never make back, but with the much better exchange rate I'd say they are making a good amount in the US and probably breaking even in Japan. Vita's hardware is old at this point.

Edit: Can we please fucking stop this stupid discussion of if you can't be a CEO don't criticize Iwata. it's the biggest fallacy there is and I didn't see the same people making the argument for Wada so just stop and let people discuss without this crap."hey you aren't a busisness man, used games are bad for business" "Hey you don't know about the cloud, it has infinite power don't question it"

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

"I don't recall saying 'Good Luck'."

That's all I could think of lofl

 

[Cosmozone]

Seriously bad news for Nintendo's stockholders then. Run that ship aground Iwata.

Nintendo stock jumped >6% today.

 

[icy_eagle]

Did we get any other info from this meeting? Like, Region-locking, account system etc. or am I asking too early?

 

[marc^o^]

Yet I don't think some soccermom would want to spend 400$ on the next Wii Fit just because it has a slightly clearer image quality. Or on Donkey Kong and 3D Land 2 for their kids, when identical looking games are offered on their much cheaper 3DS that has a much more diverse lineup outside of that. The Wii didn't have the leap in power, but all it's games and the whole concept of the console felt fresh nevertheless. Problem isn't that ,,any game could be done on previous hardware with limitations'', but that something like 3D World looks identical to a 3DS game on first sight. Same goes for everything else this year, it's just a clueless strategy of throwing random things at the console that were once successful, hoping that just one of them might just work again, while there's absolutely nothing on the console that might give it it's own identity. Not only are they graphically underwhelming (DK Returns was the first game I've played with WiiU BC and the DK Freeze trailer on eshop looks almost worse), but the whole hook of the system, which is the redundant controller, is also dropped entirely. And it all comes from Iwata mishandling his teams in the ,,panic mode'' people asked for, for some reason and the complete lack of future proof during the Wii era - Nintendo just now looking to expand their teams and planning new buildings in Kyoto is about 5 years too late. They seriously need a shakeup among the higher ups so this kind of shit doesn't happen again.

Soccer moms won't buy the wiifit extension for their balance board out of nowhere. They'll do it because it will stand next to the Mario 3D World/Wii U bundle they'll get for their kids for Christmas.

I think you're wrong with upcoming games visual appeal. They all look super colorful and inviting, easy material to market.

Price remains an issue, though I don't have any doubt they will cut it in Q4, if only slightly for psychological reasons.

 

[Hakai]

That's not even true.

What is not true?

 

[michaelius]

Not really, it'd be best if all the manufacturers are competitive.

You have to put some effort if you want to be competitive in the market.

 

[GetemMa]

 

[Master Nairb]

I'm currently getting more entertainment from the guys that run Nintendo then the games they release - so I don't want anyone to resign.

 

[Dysun]

What is not true?

Probably referencing the fact they haven't made money the last two years and posted losses

 

[JoeM86]

Some serious backtracking going on here.

Yes, Iwata, you did mean "I'll resign if things go wrong" when you talked about commitment. You just said it in that roundabout way only the Japanese know.

Anyway I don't think he has a say in this. If the company doesn't perform well enough, shareholders and the board of directors will have his head. Heck, it would be awesome if Yamauchi himself turned against him... And I wouldn't even be surprised if he did.

If he meant it, he'd have said that. Also, Iwata isn't responsible for all of the decision, they're decided by the board of directors, not by Iwata himself. Basically, they'd all have to go for the problems that you blame on Iwata

 

[massoluk]

Some serious backtracking going on here.

Yes, Iwata, you did mean "I'll resign if things go wrong" when you talked about commitment. You just said it in that roundabout way only the Japanese know.

Anyway I don't think he has a say in this. If the company doesn't perform well enough, shareholders and the board of directors will have his head. Heck, it would be awesome if Yamauchi himself turned against him... And I wouldn't even be surprised if he did.

I think you should feel bad for what you just typed, all of it.

 

[Hakai]

Probably referencing the fact they haven't made money the last two years and posted losses

If that's the case the statment I've done is still true, when they post the first one, it was the first loss in 30 years.

 

[PenaltyMan]

This is great news, if only to piss off the people looking forward to his resignation.

Spoiler

Butane is bastard gas

 

[Spieler Eins]

Soccer moms won't buy the wiifit extension for their balance board out of nowhere. They'll do it because it will stand next to the Mario 3D World/Wii U bundle they'll get for their kids for Christmas.

I think you're wrong with upcoming games visual appeal. They all look super colorful and inviting, easy material to market.

Price remains an issue, though I don't have any doubt they will cut it in Q4, if only slightly for psychological reasons.

That already didn't work with a lazy looking NSMB and karaoke at launch. Repeating the same strategy, while not even coming up with a single new concept in the form of a new franchise and not even within their old IP as they usually did any other gen, is pretty negligent.
I also find it funny that Iwata says that 3rd parties will automatically come if the WiiU goes back on track (which it won't with this poor strategy), considering that he already said that during the Wii days. That sure worked out well, even though Wii was highly successful... The man must be schizophrenic or something.

 

[twobear]

1. Announce an industry standard account system in line with all of their competitors.
2. Any VC title purchased on any system will work on any other system. No additional fees or nonsense.
3. Announce an all black and all white 3DS XL for North America immediately.
4. Announce VC for iOS and Android. Any VC title purchased with your Nintendo account will be available on mobile.
5. Wii U price cut.
6. New IP! Focus on a wider range of properties and genres.

This is just for starters, of course.

I like some of these, that's for sure.

 

[TrueBlue]

You have to put some effort if you want to be competitive in the market.

Aye. And Nintendo obviously aren't, but there shouldn't be anyone glad that they're in "gamecube/dreamcast" territory. It'd be best for everyone if their effort and sales increased. Same for Sony and Microsoft imo.

 

[dream]

What baffles me about the people gloating over Iwata's tenure is that they are implicitly saying "sure, the company is floundering under his watch, but I'm okay with that because fuck you Iwata haters!" Seems like a strange position for Nintendo supporters to take.

 

[Darryl]

Last thing I'll say about Vita here, so as not to derail this thread:

I don't agree at all with the implication that there were no bad decisions made regarding the Vita hardware; it's an overengineered Spruce Goose of a product designed for a market that doesn't exist in anything close to the numbers needed to sustain an entire platform (male Western gamers ages ~17-35 who want to play graphically intensive, console-style 3D games on a portable). Whose job was it to approve the hardware design decisions Cerny made? Hirai's.

As for the bolded: that may or may not be true (I lean towards not), but it hasn't been confirmed anywhere that I know of.

yea and it's weird seeing people try to remove responsibility off Kaz Hirai from that decision yet are eager to hang Iwata for the Wii U. Iwata didn't design the Wii U. he just "approved" it, it's the exact same scenario to Kaz Hirai. we don't know much about these decisions besides who gets declared the title of being the hardware designer and who is at (what we believe) the height of responsibility. we don't know enough to say either way.

Edit: Can we please fucking stop this stupid discussion of if you can't be a CEO don't criticize Iwata. it's the biggest fallacy there is and I didn't see the same people making the argument for Wada so just stop and let people discuss without this crap."hey you aren't a busisness man, used games are bad for business" "Hey you don't know about the cloud, it has infinite power don't question it"

fantasy firings aren't very constructive because they're based in huge fallacies and a lack of information. they're an emotional gut reaction. we as consumers know about used games, the impact is has on our lives, the impact it has on our friends and our wallets. we don't know shit about Iwata and what he does. he's as behind the curtain as it gets. if you pretend you do, you've gone and deluded yourself.

 

[JoeM86]

1. Announce an industry standard account system in line with all of their competitors.
2. Any VC title purchased on any system will work on any other system. No additional fees or nonsense.
3. Announce an all black and all white 3DS XL for North America immediately.
4. Announce VC for iOS and Android. Any VC title purchased with your Nintendo account will be available on mobile.
5. Wii U price cut.
6. New IP! Focus on a wider range of properties and genres.

This is just for starters, of course.

1. That would be nice, though I prefer things that aren't "standard", but unique
2. Agreed
3. Agreed
4. Hell no. That'd devalue Nintendo's brands.
5. That wouldn't help them make money...that'd cause them to lose it
6. Wonderful 101. They release several new IPs each year. People just don't buy them and decide not to include them in their lists for ridiculous reasons. New IPs also don't suddenly mean good quality titles. If a game is a "new IP", but plays similarly to an existing one, then just use the damn existing one as it'd actually make more money.

 

[JoeInky]

Heh, there's a thread on /v/ about you guys and this topic.

I'd say most of you would find it rather... unsavoury.

 

[Father_Brain]

yea and it's weird seeing people try to remove responsibility off Kaz Hirai from that decision yet are eager to hang Iwata for the Wii U. Iwata didn't design the Wii U. he just "approved" it, it's the exact same scenario to Kaz Hirai. we don't know much about these decisions besides who gets declared the title of being the hardware designer and who is at (what we believe) the height of responsibility. we don't know enough to say either way.

Iwata certainly shouldn't be singled out for blame for every bad decision Nintendo has made since he took over, no. It's most or all of NCL's management, probably including him, that needs to go.

 

[metalslimer]

1. That would be nice, though I prefer things that aren't "standard", but unique

What? No, every company in the world has decided what an account system means and NIntendo is the only one trying to make it unique.There's no need for a unique account system because an account system is what it is.

Heh, there's a thread on /v/ about you guys and this topic.

I'd say most of you would find it rather... unsavoury.

Not particularly interested in what the bottom of the internet thinks

 

[Can Crusher]

Maybe it's time though. Nintendo needs a breath of fresh air, reinvent itself a little bit and stop being led by these awkward guys who are stuck in the past.

Grow up Nintendo.

 

[Cheesemeister]

I blame Chessemeister and shoddy journalism.

But mostly The Chesse.

I merely relayed what the Japanese media had inferred. Don't shoot the messenger.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Cerny designed the Vita. It's the support Kaz lacked in. So that is his fault. They aren't losing money on it. It has been consistently selling better (and more games per unit) than the Wii U has.

Kaz also inherited the successful PSP business which was essentially driven into irrelevance under him. It was like a reverse PS3.

Also, can you source Vita moving more hardware/software than Wii U? Either launch aligned or concurrently?

 

[KillerTravis]

Maybe it's time though. Nintendo needs a breath of fresh air, reinvent itself a little bit and stop being led by these awkward guys who are stuck in the past.

Grow up Nintendo.

Can't wait for Nintendo's The Last of Us...

No thanks.

 

[JoeInky]

Not particularly interested in what the bottom of the internet thinks

Nowhere in my post did I mention Reddit.

 

[JoeM86]

Maybe it's time though. Nintendo needs a breath of fresh air, reinvent itself a little bit and stop being led by these awkward guys who are stuck in the past.

Grow up Nintendo.

How, pray tell, would they grow up?

 

[Sendou]

1. That would be nice, though I prefer things that aren't "standard", but unique
2. Agreed
3. Agreed
4. Hell no. That'd devalue Nintendo's brands.
5. That wouldn't help them make money...that'd cause them to lose it
6. Wonderful 101. They release several new IPs each year. People just don't buy them and decide not to include them in their lists for ridiculous reasons. New IPs also don't suddenly mean good quality titles. If a game is a "new IP", but plays similarly to an existing one, then just use the damn existing one as it'd actually make more money.

That's a curious point. It's more important to thrive Wii U install base right now. Why? Well 3rd parties are going to look at that number next time they'll decide whether to green light a Wii U game or not. Also on console business selling games makes the money not selling consoles itself. Can't sell games if there aren't consoles out there though.

I could see 4. working if you would only receive a copy playable on other platforms after first buying it on a Nintendo platform. I'm not sure if Apple would allow it though. VC games need to become "buy once, get on all platforms" type of deal either way. Prices aren't reasonable on that service either way.

 

[metalslimer]

How, pray tell, would they grow up?

Well I hope he means in the sense of learning that the internet, accounts, and online play is actually a thing people want and not in the sense they need to start making M rated games

That's a curious point. It's more important to thrive Wii U install base right now. Why? Well 3rd parties are going to look at that number next time they'll decide whether to green light a Wii U game or not. Also on console business selling games makes the money not selling consoles itself. Can't sell games if there aren't consoles out there though

I think the 3rd party train has passed with Wii U and they should be focused on profitability over all. There should at least be a modest price cut at the very minimum to 299 if not 250. We'll see in a few weeks if Iwata is confident enough in the holiday lineup to greenlight a pricecut that could cost him his job.

 

[Frodo]

This is good news for me. Because I can now stop buying every product NIntendo puts out since Iwata won't resign if they don't meet the goal.

My wallet is free. #TeamIwata #StayIwata

 

[marc^o^]

That already didn't work with a lazy looking NSMB and karaoke at launch. Repeating the same strategy, while not even coming up with a single new concept in the form of a new franchise and not even within their old IP as they usually did any other gen, is pretty negligent.
I also find it funny that Iwata says that 3rd parties will automatically come if the WiiU goes back on track (which it won't with this poor strategy), considering that he already said that during the Wii days. That sure worked out well, even though Wii was highly successful... The man must be schizophrenic or something.

Hope remains for Wii U. Game selection after one year is obviously far better. Mario Kart is around the corner. System will normally be optimized this summer and increase satisfaction. Marketing will now focus on 1st party games, they have enough upcoming material to go beyond the "what's a Wii U" messaging. Games they have can sell consoles... if they lower the entry price. That's a concern we should all agree with.

 

[faridmon]

Of course he is not resigning. He is committing seppuku if he doesn't reach his end goel. Duh!

 

[Sendou]

This is good news for me. Because I can now stop buying every product NIntendo puts out since Iwata won't resign if they don't meet the goal.

My wallet is free. #TeamIwata #StayIwata

You weren't a true fan anyway if you didn't buy 10 copies of Game & Wario.

Of course he is not resigning. He is committing seppuku if he doesn't reach his end goel. Duh!

I still don't understand how commiting a brutal ritual suicide is something to joke with. It wasn't even funny the first time someone made seppuku=sudoku connection.

 

[Tobor]

1. That would be nice, though I prefer things that aren't "standard", but unique
2. Agreed
3. Agreed
4. Hell no. That'd devalue Nintendo's brands.
5. That wouldn't help them make money...that'd cause them to lose it
6. Wonderful 101. They release several new IPs each year. People just don't buy them and decide not to include them in their lists for ridiculous reasons. New IPs also don't suddenly mean good quality titles. If a game is a "new IP", but plays similarly to an existing one, then just use the damn existing one as it'd actually make more money.

1. If they want to be unique, it should be in ways that more flexible and consumer friendly than the competition. As it stands, every other company has a better policy than Nintendo.

4. Ahh, the "devalue" argument. The opposite is true. Bringing VC to mobile would add value. It's making older Nintendo IP available to a larger audience, while limiting the new experiences to Nintendo Hardware. This would sell more hardware, and potential customers will love that the purchases they made for the mobile platforms will carry over to their new Nintendo hardware. No hassles or worries. Everyone wins here. A customer who would never buy Nintendo Hardware is now making them money, and a customer intrigued with their games might look at a console. This also gets the shareholders off their backs.

5. The system is too expensive. Just like the 3DS, something has to be done.

6. Let me rephrase. They need new IP for new demographics. Wonderful 101 is preaching to the choir.

 

[RagnarokX]

I merely relayed what the Japanese media had inferred. Don't shoot the messenger.

You have brought shame to your cheese. You must resign.

 

[JDSN]

I merely relayed what the Japanese media had inferred. Don't shoot the messenger.

BAN THIS GUY

 

[faridmon]

I still don't understand how commiting a brutal ritual suicide is something to joke with. It wasn't even funny the first time someone made seppuku=sudoku connection.

Relax. Just for the fact you had to emphasis on how brutal its, you have made it sound it terrible.

Something Something honourable Japanese...

 

[DrWong]

What joke? Wonderful101 looks like the only game this year that isn't a straight copy from a previous game.

Nintendo Land itself says otherwise : new IP, technically beyond Wii (720p, shaders, lightening...), new feature impossible to do previously (off TV play) and multiplayer mode you can't do without the gamepad screen (Metroid Blast).

 

[Air]

4. Ahh, the "devalue" argument. The opposite is true. Bringing VC to mobile would add value. It's making older Nintendo IP available to a larger audience, while limiting the new experiences to Nintendo Hardware. This would sell more hardware, and potential customers will love that the purchases they made for the mobile platforms will carry over to their new Nintendo hardware. No hassles or worries. Everyone wins here. A customer who would never buy Nintendo Hardware is now making them money, and a customer intrigued with their games might look at a console. This also gets the shareholders off their backs.

The biggest problem with this is that there's no guarantee that a customer will purchase a Nintendo console after buying a game on iOS. Whose to say customers wont just wait it out, leadin to poorer hardware sales? Also it's going I take man power away from their own consoles due to programming or other platforms. Especially android and its fractured base. There are way too many business risks for Nintendo to just put their games on iOS, and its not worth it.

Your other suggestions are fine though.

 

[flatearthpandas]

This sounds like something you'd say before you pull a lever and kill everyone.

Haha, no kidding.

 

[Malvingt2]

Nintendo stock jumped >6% today.

It did? interesting...

 

[Kouriozan]

Good news, I fear for a future with someone new in charge. It could go wrong as much as the opposite. See Square's newfound strategy in releasing as few games as possible.

 

[Tobor]

The biggest problem with this is that there's no guarantee that a customer will purchase a Nintendo console after buying a game on iOS. Whose to say customers wont just wait it out, leadin to poorer hardware sales? Also it's going I take man power away from their own consoles due to programming or other platforms. Especially android and its fractured base. There are way too many business risks for Nintendo to just put their games on iOS, and its not worth it.

Your other suggestions are fine though.

There doesn't need to be a guarantee they buy a console. If they're happy playing NES and SNES games forever, they weren't going to buy your new console anyway. It's found money either way. Shareholders are happy, and customers are happy whether they buy your hardware or not.

Sony is heading in this exact direction with Gaikai. You will be able to play catalog titles on any device in the future.

 

[Sadist]

I don't know who seriously expected he was going to resign.

NeoGAF

 

[Steve Youngblood]

4. Ahh, the "devalue" argument. The opposite is true. Bringing VC to mobile would add value. It's making older Nintendo IP available to a larger audience, while limiting the new experiences to Nintendo Hardware. This would sell more hardware, and potential customers will love that the purchases they made for the mobile platforms will carry over to their new Nintendo hardware. No hassles or worries. Everyone wins here. A customer who would never buy Nintendo Hardware is now making them money, and a customer intrigued with their games might look at a console. This also gets the shareholders off their backs

I don't think that this is an outlandish suggestion, and if they were to do it, I'd probably shrug my shoulders and not think too much about the implications. However, I don't necessarily think it's a no-brainer either, despite what some investors may clamor for. And by that, I simply mean that I think -- given their interest in the mobile space -- they don't want to direct their potential audience towards the competition for gaming. You're right in that I don't think an iOS release of the original Legend of Zelda devalues the Zelda brand. However, I think they'd prefer you playing that copy on a 3DS. Want Zelda, Mario, and other Nintendo classics? Well, I think they want you to buy a Nintendo platform to play them on.

Again, though, don't read this as "there's no way they'd do that; you're stupid." However, I don't think it's necessarily a clear cut situation where they absolutely should put old classics on iOS.

 

[Principate]

There is no reason Sony should be losing money on it besides the initial R&D that Sony will likely never make back, but with the much better exchange rate I'd say they are making a good amount in the US and probably breaking even in Japan. Vita's hardware is old at this point.

Edit: Can we please fucking stop this stupid discussion of if you can't be a CEO don't criticize Iwata. it's the biggest fallacy there is and I didn't see the same people making the argument for Wada so just stop and let people discuss without this crap."hey you aren't a busisness man, used games are bad for business" "Hey you don't know about the cloud, it has infinite power don't question it"

Economies of scale are a very big reason, if a product is selling as little as the vita is. Unless Sony has pretty much stopped production, It should be tearing away at their profit margins, and the situation will get worse if the Vita sells less (per unit costs will continue to go up).

Even if Sony is making profit on the thing I can't imagine it being much and they'd most probably be in the red in regards to opportunity cost.

 

[Kurtofan]

What joke? Wonderful101 looks like the only game this year that isn't a straight copy from a previous game.

A straight copy... my eyes can not roll hard enough.

What's the point of these hyperboles?

 

[shinra-bansho]

Exchange rates. How do they work?

I looked up historic exchange rates prior to posting that post. At the beginning of that fiscal year the yen to dollar ratio was similar to present rates; I'm aware it weakened throughout the year to 81 yen to the dollar.

                3DS      NDS      Wii       Wii U
	
Hardware       18.00      -       2.00      9.00   

Software       80.00     10.00    20.00     38.00

This is their forecast. They'll be lucky to move more than half that many Wii Us.

I don't see the difference making up for some 10M units of more profitable hardware and 150M units of software.