George Zimmerman (killer of unarmed Florida teen Trayvon Martin) found not guilty
- Thread starter Dude Abides
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vas_a_morir
Banned
And they'd be trying him as an adult, I bet.
Zim's got a super team, that's for sure. If he DOESN'T walk, it ain't their fault.
Speaking of which, you think Zim is going to bail to Peru after this? (I say Peru because he has family there)
Big Baybee
Member
I'm so angry and disappointed.
Xenon
Member
It doesn't matter what you believe, I am talking about how the prosecution would handle the case. They would have to prove Treyvon committed murder.
And they would be doing a 100 percent better job they're doing right now.
This case is a travesty. GAF is destroying the defense and these guys we're watching get paid stacks and don't have a clue...
Portugeezer
Member
I realise this, I don't see a big problem with that as everyone then accepted it was all speculation i.e. assuming Trayvon would have gone all the way with the head slamming/punching on the ground. I think had he, it's fair to assume Zimmerman could have been killed had he not shot Trayvon.
But again, it's speculation, as was then clarified.
vas_a_morir
Banned
Maybe, just possibly(we don't know), the facts are not on the prosecution's side. This man has no interest in throwing away his young and promising career to tank for Trayvon.
HOWEVER, I do think the prosecution sent out the young guy due to lack of confidence in this case, which is not the best move. So you may have a point.
mercenar1e
Member
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
Didn't the fight end on the grass though? That is where Trayvon was found. So the "head-smashing" could have occurred earlier in the fight
vas_a_morir
Banned
I'm still laughing at that "ninja turtle' comment.
Portugeezer
Member
Many people made their mind up already, he would be a dead man walking even if found not guilty.
Who was that woman that killed her son (allegedly) and is free? Did people kill her?
Dude Abides
Banned
This is the beacon of hope for the state. Zimmerman has less of an argument that he was in fear for his life if he's not getting his head smacked on the concrete when he pulls the trigger.
son? Or was that daughter? C. Anthony? Last I heard, was alive, was in bankruptcy court fending off defamation or civil trials.
People like to talk tough on twitter. I've read ridiculous racist comments from both sides. Just type Zimmerman in twitter and see what people are saying.
You have some white people happy a black teen is dead saying racist shit, you have some black people threaten harm on innocent white people if Zimmerman goes free etc.
I think Zimmerman will have a civil suit against him by Martin's family once the case finishes, if he gets free of the charges. He probably will try to go to Peru. I don't think he's in any danger for his life. People just say things on the internet because they can. No one will do anything like they didn't do anything to OJ, Casey Anthony etc.
You have some white people happy a black teen is dead saying racist shit, you have some black people threaten harm on innocent white people if Zimmerman goes free etc.
I think Zimmerman will have a civil suit against him by Martin's family once the case finishes, if he gets free of the charges. He probably will try to go to Peru. I don't think he's in any danger for his life. People just say things on the internet because they can. No one will do anything like they didn't do anything to OJ, Casey Anthony etc.
Dude Abides
Banned
Unlike OJ, Zimmerman doesn't have deep pockets that would make a civil suit worth their while.
That solves everything kill him if he is set free. Does absolutely nothing.
What I can't stand about the trial in general is how politicized and partisan it is.
If I go to a largely-conservative site like breitbart.com or something, all the comments are praising and whooping and hollaring about how great the trial is going.
If I go to a largely-liberal site like NeoGAF, all the comments are distraught and disgusted and blaming the prosecution for ineptitude.
Almost no one watching the trial wants to learn the truth. Almost everyone just wants their pre-determined team to win. Almost no one just wants blind justice to be properly executed.
If I go to a largely-conservative site like breitbart.com or something, all the comments are praising and whooping and hollaring about how great the trial is going.
If I go to a largely-liberal site like NeoGAF, all the comments are distraught and disgusted and blaming the prosecution for ineptitude.
Almost no one watching the trial wants to learn the truth. Almost everyone just wants their pre-determined team to win. Almost no one just wants blind justice to be properly executed.
polyh3dron
Banned
That's what is ridiculous to me.. Why is this guy a right wing hero? He shot an unarmed kid. But I see shit like this: http://patdollard.com/2013/06/watch...vons-gangsta-girlfriends-testimony-continues/
and it becomes unfortunately obvious that it's a fucking race thing and that makes me sad.
All these right wing tea party types are really showing their true colors in this situation.
vas_a_morir
Banned
Yeah. And some posters on GAF have flat out said that if you don't think Zimmerman is guilty you are a racist. Just ignore the idiots.
Its the everyday regular garbage that comes from popular cases. Zimmerman does have a legit threat to his saftey if he stays in the US though. That is very real indeed.
I hear you. The problem is that it was partisan to begin with when the Media ran WILD with the story... absolutely wild. It muddled all the facts right from the beginning.
There was never going to be "blind justice" . This was a mini race war from the start.
My main issue with the judicial system is that it betrays common sense ffor the pursuit of evidence when they should work in tandem.. harmoniously
Im also upset the police absolutely destroyed any chance of a unbias fair case when they dropped the ball on their initial report.
That is the true issue at heart. Sad to say, Trayvon's case is nothing to be publicized over... It happens EVERY DAY in America. Trayvon died not knowing he'd become famous. Others die remaining nameless
Just like politics.
Not about deep pockets but making sure the man who killed your son doesn't get off scot free. They'll pursue every legal option in the hope they get some money or cam bankrupt and make Zimmermans life hell.
Plus, with the OJ civil trial, we finally found out the guy was guilty because of the fact new photo evidence of him wearing Bruno Magli shoes at an NFL game, the very shoes they said the killer was wearing and OJ denied ever wearing or owning during the criminal trial, was shown.
So you never know. If it was your son, wouldn't you want to pursue every legal option against your sons killer?
And without being too "look in the mirror"-ish, why has Trayvon become a hero for the left? He beat a dude's face in. (<---purposely spun to sound bad, to reflect the opposite perspective of "shot an unarmed kid.")
Both did awful acts of violence, and we don't know which acts were and weren't justified. But no one seems to want to be educated on the facts. They're watching the trial like they would the NBA Finals.
Exactly. I wish more people here were just interested in hearing everyone's version of the truth. The complete picture hasn't even been painted yet, by either side of the case.
polyh3dron
Banned
Why was he following Trayvon?
Why did he think Trayvon wasn't supposed to be in that community?
Why was he mad that "these assholes always get away"? What lumped Trayvon in with such a group? What was he getting away with?
Why did he pursue this kid, with gun, when he was instructed not to?
Those were all choices Zimmerman made. He created that situation while Trayvon was just walking back from the store.
Just based on all that he should be guilty, regardless of what Trayvon may have done to get out of that situation. We don't know how Zimmerman approached Trayvon or what was said, but we do know Trayvon was unarmed and Zimmerman shot him. There's no justification for that.
I don't see any possible way for someone to think Zimmerman is a hero, and I too can only come to the conclusion that there is some racism involved in the motives some people have to weirdly be fervent supporters of the guy.
Yeah, I've heard about the police bungling it, although I haven't actually seen what happened, nor do I know what should have happened (20/20 retrospect and all). But that's where it began, I think.
Said it from the beginning: I want a fair trail. Unfortunately, it has been politicized and jumbled into a clusterfuck of something else.
Regardless, Zimmerman's guilt/non-guilt is irrelevant to me as long as there is justice served based on evidence presented. That's what I care about.
Regardless, Zimmerman's guilt/non-guilt is irrelevant to me as long as there is justice served based on evidence presented. That's what I care about.
empty vessel
Member
People understandably view Zimmerman's racially-motivated vigilante actions as the but for cause of a teen's needless death. Take Zimmerman's stupid conduct away, and Martin walks home. Nobody dies and nobody's head gets bloodied. That is why people want to see Zimmerman held accountable. That is wholly separate from the legal intricacies of the case.
Have any of the basic facts of the case been challenged?
That a 17 year old was walking home after buying iced tea and skittles for his younger brother.
That Zimmerman was following Martin thinking he was suspicious.
Martin noticed him and attempted to get away.
That an altercation occurred with the end result of Martin being shot and killed.
Because personally, I don't care how the altercation happened. If Martin turned around and punched Zimmerman without warning I would still consider Zimmerman a murderer under that scenario even if the law doesn't.
That a 17 year old was walking home after buying iced tea and skittles for his younger brother.
That Zimmerman was following Martin thinking he was suspicious.
Martin noticed him and attempted to get away.
That an altercation occurred with the end result of Martin being shot and killed.
Because personally, I don't care how the altercation happened. If Martin turned around and punched Zimmerman without warning I would still consider Zimmerman a murderer under that scenario even if the law doesn't.
This is exactly how it gets politicized, is declaring views like this.
"Trayvon was just a kid with Skittles walking home" = "Zimmerman was just a guy looking out for his neighborhood."
"Trayvon was just defending himself from a stalker, who then shot and killed him" = "Zimmerman was just defending himself from the guy bashing his face and head in."
You reduce one party's actions to a single, inoffensive sentence, then detail the horrors of the other party.
Painting a certain opinion with a negative motive like racism puts everyone who holds that view on the defensive. They ally up together. Then they start flinging racism back at the other side, because "of course we're not racist, so anyone saying that we are must be racist, because they're the ones who brought race up." So those with the opposite views get defensive, so they group up and support one another.
You're fine to believe the events transpired one way or another, but the accusations that "anyone who fervently defends X view must be Y" is not only fallacious, it's extremely unhealthy and dividing.
And what attorney is going to take the case? Assuming Zimmerman is essentially judgment proof because of a lack of assets, I know I sure as hell wouldn't take that case, and I can't think of another attorney that I know of that would, either.
vas_a_morir
Banned
this posted yet... ?
the fuck
I think one might call this "Swag," but I don't know.
empty vessel
Member
The attorney would have to be retained on a non-contingent basis. And the Martins have come into some money from at least one settlement with the neighborhood association. I would be surprised if they pursued Zimmerman in a civil action, though.
this posted yet... ?
the fuck
Yes, and it's obnoxious. The defense better hope that the jury isn't perusing online info about the trial (which jurors totally cannot resist). That, or that the jury is so solidly on their side that they aren't offended by the flippant nature of the image.
Indeed.
Any idea of how much money? I would have to imagine they would be hesitant to burn through one settlement just to put Zimmerman through more legal hoops without the possibility of getting anything else out of it.
Kitschkraft
Member
Also let's not forget that if Zimmerman gets off he likely has guaranteed money coming in. TV appearances, radio interviews, book deal, conservative convention appearances...
Hell, he may even end up as a fox news anchor.
The parents should take every single opportunity to make sure he doesn't benefit from the murder of their son.
Is that the defense lawyer?
this posted yet... ?
the fuck
What hell
#dadkilledit
wow....
empty vessel
Member
Vicetrailia
Banned
There arent equal, actually. One has to make a mental leap to follow the alternative spin, because the bad actions are still there. Only if you ignore them can you come to believe that.
None of those things that Zimmerman did are a crime though.
We can think he was a douchebag wannabe mall cop without thinking he must be a murderer.
The important details to me are so completely up in the air that I don't see how I would be able to convict him. If Martin was on top of him (which seems more likely than not given the evidence I've seen, as contradictory as it all is), it is self defense, unless Zimmerman initiated the initial physical altercation, in which case a manslaughter conviction is more justified, not murder.
There is no compelling evidence one way or another about who threw the first punch and the only one alive who knows is Zimmerman, so I don't know how you convict him based on the evidence given.
All those things Zimmerman did may make him liable for wrongful death in a civil court, but they do not make him a murderer on their own.
Portugeezer
Member
It's slang, like creepy ass cracka.
But by posting that she shows her stupidity, doesn't help her father at all.
There are a million but-for causes to everything. The question is when a but-for action becomes morally wrong enough to warrant culpability for the resulting event. If you flip someone off on the highway for no reason other than to be a jerk, and they get road-rage and hit you, then start punching you, is your but-for action of flipping him off enough to disallow you to defend yourself? No. If you shoot a gun at someone for no reason, then they start punching you, is your but-for action enough to disallow you to defend yourself? Yes.
So the fact that his action is a but-for is not the end-all, be-all of the situation that many make it out to be, even morally. You see that fact displayed on this board all the time. "X did Y to Z." "Well Z did A to X." "Oh, so that means Z deserves to get Y'd?!"
But-for causes mean little on their own, both legally and morally speaking. They're mostly used as a device to paint the matter clearer than it really is to justify one's own views without dealing with the complexities of the situation.
empty vessel
Member
Legally, this is incorrect. The law penalizes the provocateur of violence, not the first to inflict it.
And the fact that many, many people believe Zimmerman's actions crossed that line suggests that the law ought to accommodate it. And it arguably does. Whether it in fact does--at least according to this jury--remains to be seen.
this posted yet... ?
the fuck
rage inducing
Trayvon didn't bring a gun to a candy run. Zimmerman did. So if the left is crying for Trayvon (I don't know if that's a thing, I'm going with what you said) that's probably why.
'first punch' was the wrong choice of words of course, the person who initiated the physical confrontation is what I meant, be it through actual physical confrontation or direct provocation.
Also provocation is a legal defense that can reduce the sentence, it doesn't mean that you are legally in the right if you throw the first punch in response to a provocation.
The fact that you would have to even do that shows why there is outrage in the first place.
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