Nintendo's Iwata: "I don't recall saying I'd resign."

Erm, no. Let's wait until 3DS's life is complete until you make such a hugely speculative comment. Besides, the success of a product is not so black and white as to 'winning' some analyst war.

I know what you're saying but 5 years ago. Most kids that I knew had a DS of some sort. Most of them now have a iPod Touch. The decline of dedicated hand held consoles are inevitable.
 
Yes, a series of pithy one liners and withering sarcasm really adds so much more to the discussion.
I could have written a series of pithy paragraphs if you prefer.

Three paragraphs about how it's hard to hire people of the Nintendo standard and that they should be praised for the effort they've put into this? It's apologist nonsense. The company has had a whole generation to prepare for HD development, an extra 8 years over everyone else, to watch the mistakes of others, and learn from them, as they accumulated mountains of cash. They've had ample time to prepare and have shown themselves woefully under-prepared despite that. That is not something deserving of praise.

Derogative dismissal of the Western industry to a bunch of shoot-bang studios and nonsense about EA folding? Really? That's what a string of people think is spot on analysis.

The idea that "Nintendo is a design company that doesn't focus on trends" in itself is nonsense. I'm sorry but one would have to be highly credulous to believe that the 3DS's USP and the Wii U's USP aren't reactionary to the climate at the time, and frankly a misreading of people's interest in either.

It amounts to little more than a firm belief that Nintendo, and by extension Iwata, (or vice versa considering the extent to which this cult of personality has taken hold) are infallible in their decisions.
 
I know what you're saying but 5 years ago. Most kids that I knew had a DS of some sort. Most of them now have a iPod Touch. The decline of dedicated hand held consoles are inevitable.

This is anecdotal evidence but I do think that we're in a world where kids are growing up without ever having the chance to experience Nintendo's games.

As tablets and smart devices act as a tool for education as well as games, it makes more sense for a budget conscious parent to buy such a device for them than a concentrated gaming machine for their kids.
 
I know what you're saying but 5 years ago. Most kids that I knew had a DS of some sort. Most of them now have a iPod Touch. The decline of dedicated hand held consoles are inevitable.

If Nintendo wants to be a viable hardware provider, they will need to enter the mobile market and release a phone/tablet.

Given Nintendo's lack of OS expertise, I don't see how they can compete with the likes of Apple and Google. And I don't see them relying on Android since they don't want to publish on open platforms like google play.

In short, Nintendo is currently not capable of entering that market nor are they making any changes to enter that market. They don't see that in the further, mass market dedicated devices will be obsolete.
 
I know what you're saying but 5 years ago. Most kids that I knew had a DS of some sort. Most of them now have a iPod Touch. The decline of dedicated hand held consoles are inevitable.

It's also not a foregone conclusion either. Nintendo's advantage is they aren't solely a hardware manufacturer relying on other people's software to make their products interesting. A hit piece of software can come anywhere, and it's more than likely going to come from Nintendo.
 
Jeesh all this drama. Still, I don't see how Iwata resigning now or the next year will help Nintendo's current situation. Yamauchi stepping down in '02 and replacing him with Iwata didn't help the Gamecube. It took a while before everything was in place for DS and Wii.

The constant cry for Nintendo to venture in different genres is not just a GAF thing; other messageboards are always talking about a realistic sim racer or a shooter from Nintendo. I heard things like on those boards "well it worked with Goldeneye 64, surely they could do it again!" Yeah, but they forget stuff like Goldeneye 64 was like 16 years ago. It had the right timing, had a four player componement which was like mindblowing back then and it had the James Bond license to carry it.
 
This. The world doesn't need more gritty shooters/cinematic experiences and it certainly doesn't need them from Nintendo, nor does Nintendo need those games. They should make sure to get all the third party cross platform games (which they're admittedly failing at) to have a broad range of software on their platform, but to actively try to compete in those genres themselves doesn't really make much sense.

If one of their teams desperately wants to make a gritty shooter, or if a good partnering opportunity appears, sure go ahead. But creating this type of game solely to compete with the others is just a loosing battle. The people who really care about shooters probably won't really be happiest as a Nintendo only gamer. A new Nintendo IP in a genre they have little experience in and a type of gameplay they seem generally uninterested in is unlikely to steer people away from Halo and Gears. Even if it's a success, that would still be one game every few years against a handful of similar exclusives for the the other platforms every year.

It's in a way similiar to MS attempt to moneyhat JRPGs, Blue Dragon and Star Ocean just was not enough when they could not secure FFXIII in japan (regardless of how shitty that game turned out).

In a way, it's situations like these that really highlight how Nintendo's dual nature as software and hardware developer can sometimes bite them in the ass.

Nintendo the Software Developer has little experience and/or interest developing "mature", western-focused experiences like shooters. They likely wouldn't be able to do it well, and so it would make sense for them to not focus on it when they're so much better at creating other types of games. It would be like asking Square-Enix to develop a franchise to counter EA Sports franchises. Just wouldn't work.

However, Nintendo the Hardware Developer needs to realize that these gritty shooter experiences are in high demand, as well as a lot of western-focused experiences, and if they want their hardware to be competitive they need to have an answer for those types of experiences. This Nintendo needs to diminish the number of reasons gamers would have to look to their competitors for satisfaction.

A pretty tough situation to be in, I imagine, but Nintendo needs to address the fact that they don't specialize in these games by acquiring talent that does giving them the resources to create something great for Nintendo, or by bankrolling a third party into creating something great exclusively for their hardware. But they shouldn't just wash their hands of entire genres because they feel they can't compete. They have to compete.
 
Jeesh all this drama. Still, I don't see how Iwata resigning now or the next year will help Nintendo's current situation. Yamauchi stepping down in '02 and replacing him with Iwata didn't help the Gamecube. It took a while before everything was in place for DS and Wii.


There won't be an immediate benefit but the argument is that Iwata is not the right man for the job. With him as CEO, Nintendo is going to continue underperforming and Nintendo's market is going to continue to shrink, He doesn't have a convincing strategy to address these problems and a new CEO can provide a better prospect for the future.
 
Here is my main issue with Nintendo as I see it- I think I fall on the side that thinks chasing the western shooter crowd is a lost cause and would largely be a waste of money. If I was in charge of Nintendo, I would double down on my strengths- both in first party development and my relationships with Japanese companies. I think that is what Nintendo is going for

The issue?

I see little evidence right now that Nintendo is actually accomplishing this goal (home console wise)

Wii U first party output is anemic, and frankly, for launch and 2013 does not look terribly ambitious.

Outside of a few collaborations, Japanese 3rd party support is non existent.

If you are essentially conceding a market, you have to make up for it in another area. Right now I'm not seeing either an increased 1st party presence or strong Japanese support to make up for it. IF Iwata/Nintendo was very aggressive I think there would be an opportunity to really expand Japanese development- but right now I see no signs they are doing what they need to do.
 
Jeesh all this drama. Still, I don't see how Iwata resigning now or the next year will help Nintendo's current situation. Yamauchi stepping down in '02 and replacing him with Iwata didn't help the Gamecube. It took a while before everything was in place for DS and Wii.

The constant cry for Nintendo to venture in different genres is not just a GAF thing; other messageboards are always talking about a realistic sim racer or a shooter from Nintendo. I heard things like on those boards "well it worked with Goldeneye 64, surely they could do it again!" Yeah, but they forget stuff like Goldeneye 64 was like 16 years ago. It had the right timing, had a four player componement which was like mindblowing back then and it had the James Bond license to carry it.

That Goldeneye was 16 years is the point. They completely folded up shop on those types of experiences. That was Iwata's decision, and it looked like a good one before mobile and tablets destroyed the casual market. So where does Nintendo go from here?

They could and should make games that stretch the targeted audience in both directions.
 
There won't be an immediate benefit but the argument is that Iwata is not the right man for the job. With him as CEO, Nintendo is going to continue underperforming and Nintendo's market is going to continue to shrink, He doesn't have a convincing strategy to address these problems and a new CEO can provide a better prospect for the future.

What is their long-term plan then? We only know their software output up until the middle of next year and no usuable data to suggest their 2013 is going to be a failure. So based on that: Iwata needs to fired, the current long-term strategy halted (again, we don't even know what this is) and replaced by some unknown wunderkind who is going to successfully bring in an all new alternative long-term plan to re-invigorate the company?
 
If you are essentially conceding a market, you have to make up for it in another area. Right now I'm not seeing either an increased 1st party presence or strong Japanese support to make up for it. IF Iwata/Nintendo was very aggressive I think there would be an opportunity to really expand Japanese development- but right now I see no signs they are doing what they need to do.

What would you have them do?

At the moment. I see a company that is extremely risk averse reduced to pushing out up-rezzed rehashes/sequels on it's new gaming platform. That is no way to grow your user base.

I really thought that having a integrated tablet would bring a lot of new gaming ideas from Nintendo. But basically it's just used as a second screen. Where is the innovation?

I would also have thought that there was a golden opportunity to tap into the indie dev community with the WiiU Gamepad. Where is Angry Birds or Candy Crush? Not hugely compelling I know but the WiiU Gamepad could/should be a compelling platform for indie phone/tablet developers.
 
There won't be an immediate benefit but the argument is that Iwata is not the right man for the job. With him as CEO, Nintendo is going to continue underperforming and Nintendo's market is going to continue to shrink, He doesn't have a convincing strategy to address these problems and a new CEO can provide a better prospect for the future.
Who is this fabled new CEO? The way I see it, Nintendo carefully picks their upper management staff that guard their corperate culture. I don't think a new CEO will change the direction of Nintendo in a "new and radical" way.
 
What would you have them do?

At the moment. I see a company that is extremely risk averse reduced to pushing out up-rezzed rehashes/sequels on it's new gaming platform. That is no way to grow your user base.

I really thought that having a integrated tablet would bring a lot of new gaming ideas from Nintendo. But basically it's just used as a second screen. Where is the innovation?

I would also have thought that there was a golden opportunity to tap into the indie dev community with the WiiU Gamepad. Where is Angry Birds or Candy Crush? Not hugely compelling I know but the WiiU Gamepad could/should be a compelling platform for indie phone/tablet developers.

I don't see what your post has to do with mine. I was pretty clear- Nintendo needs to really beef up their internal teams and be more aggressive with Japanese developers and publishers.
 
However, Nintendo the Hardware Developer needs to realize that these gritty shooter experiences are in high demand, as well as a lot of western-focused experiences, and if they want their hardware to be competitive they need to have an answer for those types of experiences. This Nintendo needs to diminish the number of reasons gamers would have to look to their competitors for satisfaction.

A pretty tough situation to be in, I imagine. But Nintendo needs to address the fact that they don't specialize in these games by acquiring talent that does specialize in these games and give them the resources to create something great for Nintendo, or bankroll a third party into creating something great exclusively for their hardware. But they shouldn't just wash their hands of entire genres because they feel they can't compete. They have to compete.

Ideally that's where third parties should come in, and they need to work on that

But it's also perfectly fine for them not to to "win" every gamer. Someone who primarily plays shooters will likely go with MS or Sony, but Nintendo have a bunch of other areas where they have basically no competition. If they play to their own strength, and also get all the big third party games, they would have a greater diversity than any of the others, and a token Nintendo made FPS wouldn't really matter.
 
What is their long-term plan then? We only know their software output up until the middle of next year and no usuable data to suggest their 2013 is going to be a failure. So based on that: Iwata needs to fired, the current long-term strategy halted (again, we don't even know what this is) and replaced by some unknown wunderkind who is going to successfully bring in an all new alternative long-term plan to re-invigorate the company?

Who is this fabled new CEO? The way I see it, Nintendo carefully picks their upper management staff that guard their corperate culture. I don't think a new CEO will change the direction of Nintendo in a "new and radical" way.

Keeping Iwata is worse than not keeping Iwata. Better to get new leadership than have your company become irrelevent in 10 years.
 
They could and should make games that stretch the targeted audience in both directions.
For whom? Those people that already have their Halo's, CoD's, Forza's, Gran Turismo's on other systems? That won't help. At the end of the day, people complaining about not having those types of games on Nintendo systems won't make them flock towards the Wii U when Nintendo announces a game in that particular genre. They'll see it, think it's nice and will stick to other systems who already received those games.

If Nintendo wants "new" crowds, they should develop games you'd expect from them in new IP's. That's what they do best. Creating something that others don't have.

I don't see what your post has to do with mine. I was pretty clear- Nintendo needs to really beef up their internal teams and be more aggressive with Japanese developers and publishers.
Yup.

Keeping Iwata is worse than not keeping Iwata. Better to get new leadership than have your company become irrelevent in 10 years.
Okay
 
Ideally that's where third parties should come in, and they need to work on that

But it's also perfectly fine for them not to to "win" every gamer. Someone who primarily plays shooters will likely go with MS or Sony, but Nintendo have a bunch of other areas where they have basically no competition. If they play to their own strength, and also get all the big third party games, they would have a greater diversity than any of the others, and a token Nintendo made FPS wouldn't really matter.

Wii U doesn't need multi-platform third party games. It needs exclusive, big 3rd party games like DS and 3DS get. There's plenty of franchises they could snap up but we won't really know if that's happening for a quite while yet.
 
Keeping Iwata is worse than not keeping Iwata. Better to get new leadership than have your company become irrelevent in 10 years.

Do you only deal in vague, grand speculation with little thought for anything other than your own idealisation of what's actually happening in the world? Yes, firing top-level management and replacing them completely works every single time a company is struggling...
 
Wii U doesn't need multi-platform third party games. It needs exclusive, big 3rd party games like DS and 3DS get. There's plenty of franchises they could snap up but we won't really know if that's happening for a quite while yet.

Exclusives is nice to have of course, but it's hard to get any big third party franchise exclusive and would most likely require ridiculously massive hats of money. Ensuring a broad range of cross platform games should be easier, and I think lacking a release of a really big third party game probably does more damage than having a smaller title exclusive does good.

Essentially if they could reach a point where you're choice boils down to:

A) a console that plays CoD, Battlefield & Halo
B) a console that plays CoD, Battlefield & Uncharted
C) a console that plays CoD, Battlefield & Mario

they would be in a very good position. Many people may not care about the type of games they make and rather have more shooters, and that's fine. But many people want a bigger diversity, and they want Nintendo's games, but may not want to give up on all the other big games or buy a secondary console for it
 
Exclusives is nice to have of course, but it's hard to get any big third party franchise exclusive and would most likely require ridiculously massive hats of money. Ensuring a broad range of cross platform games should be easier, and I think lacking a release of a really big third party game probably does more damage than having a smaller title exclusive does good.

Disagree. In Japan, PSP is a good example of a platform which thrived on lots of smaller third-party games building on the success of one big title.
 
Ideally that's where third parties should come in, and they need to work on that

But it's also perfectly fine for them not to to "win" every gamer. Someone who primarily plays shooters will likely go with MS or Sony, but Nintendo have a bunch of other areas where they have basically no competition. If they play to their own strength, and also get all the big third party games, they would have a greater diversity than any of the others, and a token Nintendo made FPS wouldn't really matter.

It's not that I don't agree, but I think lately Nintendo has been using "playing to our own strengths" as an excuse to not adapt to the modern realities of the industry, and what kind of experiences are most in-demand. You can even see this in other areas like their online infrastructure and their reluctance to get with the times on things that have been commonplace for years with their competitors.

I don't think playing to their strengths is going to be enough for very much longer. Nintendo desperately needs to expand their repertoire.
 
I don't think playing to their strengths is going to be enough for very much longer. Nintendo desperately needs to expand their repertoire.

From what we know about next year, Nintendo is doing that with Bayonetta 2, X and Yoshi. There won't be a 3D Mario or Donkey Kong to rely on either. It's going to be interesting to see how it unfolds.
 
From what we know about next year, Nintendo is doing that with Bayonetta 2, X and Yoshi. There won't be a 3D Mario or Donkey Kong to rely on either. It's going to be interesting to see how it unfolds.

I do think there would be more optimism/excitement in the core gamer community and this board in particular if X and/or Bayo 2 were slated for this year.

X especially.
 
I really thought that having a integrated tablet would bring a lot of new gaming ideas from Nintendo. But basically it's just used as a second screen. Where is the innovation?
I got Game & Wario yesterday, you should check this one. Wii Party U and WiiFit U are the next new gameplay ideas showcases.

Off TV, favorite Wii U feature for most people from what I read, is announced for all upcoming titles.

Then there are small refinements in existing genres, such as the camera mode in Mario 3D World, the riddance of splitscreen in 2p multiplayer, etc.

So far, big experimentations with the GamePad are reserved to casual titles, core games don't base their gameplay mechanics on "gimmicks". It looks like Nintendo actually heard you.
 
Regarding tehrik's posts earlier (Which I agree are quite good), I don't think most (reasonable) detractors here are saying that Nintendo is doing nothing smart at all right now. That zero good choices of any kind are being made.

Instead, I'd compare it to the launch of the Wii and DS. During that time, of course Nintendo made some mistakes; no company of 4,000+ people goes years without making some. However, Nintendo's insights that 1) graphics were not that important any longer to the market and 2) the casual audience was much larger than Sony/MS was giving it credit for and deserved to be taken seriously were so bright, so brilliant, that any mistakes Nintendo made in that time frame were simply drowned out by the brilliance of these two profound insights.

Similarly, in today's market, Nintendo's significant lag in networking functionality is such a serious concern that any good choices they make are not that important unless and until their mistakes with networking are fully fixed. Just as many detractors of the Wii/DS refused to acknowledge how important Nintendo's insights were in that era, I think many supporters of the 3DS/Wii U are dismissing serious concerns about networking, These networking complaints are much more serious than is usually discussed; not only does Nintendo still not have a standard account system (the typical complaint), but their general network infrastructure is poor (no dedicated servers, store UIs are often awkward and difficult to navigate on 3DS), their UI doesn't effectively advertise online sales the way XBL prominently features sales on their front page; and Nintendo still has made very little attempt to cultivate first party, online focused games, whether those be casual games like Farmville or "core" games. Even many established Nintendo franchises that cry out for networking have still not implemented it, such as Mario Party.

To summarize: I feel Nintendo's relative weakness in networking is such a significant weakness that any other good things they're doing now are muted in comparison.
 
Regarding tehrik's posts earlier (Which I agree are quite good), I don't think most (reasonable) detractors here are saying that Nintendo is doing nothing smart at all right now. That zero good choices of any kind are being made.

Instead, I'd compare it to the launch of the Wii and DS. During that time, of course Nintendo made some mistakes; no company of 4,000+ people goes years without making some. However, Nintendo's insights that 1) graphics were not that important any longer to the market and 2) the casual audience was much larger than Sony/MS was giving it credit for and deserved to be taken seriously were so bright, so brilliant, that any mistakes Nintendo made in that time frame were simply drowned out by the brilliance of these two profound insights.

Similarly, in today's market, Nintendo's significant lag in networking functionality -- whether they choose to create a network which is "core" oriented like XBL or "casual" oriented like Facebook or iOS -- is such a serious concern that any good choices they make are not that important unless and until their mistakes with networking are fully fixed. The problem, again, is much deeper than most supporters give it credit for; not only does Nintendo still not have a standard account system (the typical complaint), but their general network infrastructure is poor (no dedicated servers), their UI doesn't effectively advertise online sales the way XBL prominently features sales on their front page; 3DS' online store is still very difficult to navigate; and Nintendo still has made very little attempt to cultivate online-focused games for themselves, whether that be casual games like Farmville or "core" games like Madden or Dark Souls.

To summarize: I feel Nintendo's relative weakness in networking is such a significant weakness that any other good things they're doing now are muted in comparison.

I completely agree that this is a significant issue for Nintendo, but short term as far as why Wii U is failing, I think the answer is a lot simpler and comes down to games games games with a little bit of price thrown in.
 
I do think there would be more optimism/excitement in the core gamer community and this board in particular if X and/or Bayo 2 were slated for this year.

X especially.

But then there would be complaints about their being nothing slated for next year! :)

If Nintendo is with Wii U for the long haul, then they need to space out their releases and not stretch their development capabilities too far. Short term good will isn't as useful if there's a massive drought again next year.
 
But then there would be complaints about their being nothing slated for next year! :)

If Nintendo is with Wii U for the long haul, then they need to space out their releases and not stretch their development capabilities too far. Short term good will isn't as useful if there's a massive drought again next year.

Oh I agree, though I think one of the two coming out this holiday would be beneficial, since Nintendo's lineup this year is really platformer/casual based.
 
One thing that always amazed me was, why is there this cult of personality for Iwata around Nintendo fans? I mean clearly, if you're a fan of a company you'd want the company to be doing better and clearly Nintendo is not doing good, which is a result of the managerial direction that Iwata has chosen starting with the 3DS. So, in theory, wouldn't you want these mistakes not repeated again and your company to prosper?
 
Regarding tehrik's posts earlier (Which I agree are quite good), I don't think most (reasonable) detractors here are saying that Nintendo is doing nothing smart at all right now. That zero good choices of any kind are being made.

Instead, I'd compare it to the launch of the Wii and DS. During that time, of course Nintendo made some mistakes; no company of 4,000+ people goes years without making some. However, Nintendo's insights that 1) graphics were not that important any longer to the market and 2) the casual audience was much larger than Sony/MS was giving it credit for and deserved to be taken seriously were so bright, so brilliant, that any mistakes Nintendo made in that time frame were simply drowned out by the brilliance of these two profound insights.

Similarly, in today's market, Nintendo's significant lag in networking functionality is such a serious concern that any good choices they make are not that important unless and until their mistakes with networking are fully fixed. Just as many detractors of the Wii/DS refused to acknowledge how important Nintendo's insights were in that era, I think many supporters of the 3DS/Wii U are dismissing serious concerns about networking, These networking complaints are much more serious than is usually discussed; not only does Nintendo still not have a standard account system (the typical complaint), but their general network infrastructure is poor (no dedicated servers, store UIs are often awkward and difficult to navigate on 3DS), their UI doesn't effectively advertise online sales the way XBL prominently features sales on their front page; and Nintendo still has made very little attempt to cultivate first party, online focused games, whether those be casual games like Farmville or "core" games. Even many established Nintendo franchises that cry out for networking have still not implemented it, such as Mario Party.

To summarize: I feel Nintendo's relative weakness in networking is such a significant weakness that any other good things they're doing now are muted in comparison.

I agree with all of this. I'd also like to add that it's difficult to focus on the good decisions made at Nintendo because we don't stand to see any tangible benefit from most of them any time soon. Meanwhile, the Wii U is being plagued by their heaps of bad decisions now.
 
One thing that always amazed me was, why is there this cult of personality for Iwata around Nintendo fans? I mean clearly, if you're a fan of a company you'd want the company to be doing better and clearly Nintendo is not doing good, which is a result of the managerial direction that Iwata has chosen starting with the 3DS. So, in theory, wouldn't you want these mistakes not repeated again and your company to prosper?

In whose eyes, man with Kazuo Hirai avatar? For those who actually enjoy what Nintendo offers on a wider scale, they then know that they are much much more than a producer of just Mario games. In the end, sales mean nothing to me as long as I can still play their games.
 
There won't be an immediate benefit but the argument is that Iwata is not the right man for the job. With him as CEO, Nintendo is going to continue underperforming and Nintendo's market is going to continue to shrink, He doesn't have a convincing strategy to address these problems and a new CEO can provide a better prospect for the future.

Nintendo-is-Doomed.jpg


As long as Nintendo stick to being Nintendo they'll be fine. Money and success comes and goes it's being able to ride through that counts.
 
One thing that always amazed me was, why is there this cult of personality for Iwata around Nintendo fans? I mean clearly, if you're a fan of a company you'd want the company to be doing better and clearly Nintendo is not doing good, which is a result of the managerial direction that Iwata has chosen starting with the 3DS. So, in theory, wouldn't you want these mistakes not repeated again and your company to prosper?

Considering almost everyone I know with a 3DS loves the system, I don't think the direction is that bad.
 
Nintendo-is-Doomed.jpg


As long as Nintendo stick to being Nintendo they'll be fine. Money and success comes and goes it's being able to ride through that counts.


That's the mentality that keeps Nintendo from dominating the electronic entertainment industry and allows the likes of Apple to take over their market.
 
The first thing people need to understand about Nintendo is that they are a design company, like Apple. They will have tremendous hits and flops over time, but net-net, they are creating shareholder value - which is why the company has $14 billion in cash and short-term holdings making it the most valuable gaming company in the world.

Running a design company isn't about jumping on trends, it's about fostering a creative culture where people are free to work and create, and then jumping on key products as they are built and figuring out how to get people to buy them. That's a tremendous job. That is why Steve Jobs was respected the way he was. This is why Satoru Iwata is highly respected within Nintendo. These guys are going to make mistakes and they are going to do things that puzzle people (Jobs was famous for closed ecosystems, when everyone else was going open), but their internal teams love them, and they perform and work for him because they admire/respect him - and there is a cult of personality around them. You can't just bring in a mercenary fly-by-night executive looking to cash-in to run these companies. The talent would just get up and leave.

You're saying Iwata has a cult of personality around him and I totally agree. Yet, I don't think this cult exists because of his abilities to build key products and figure out how to get people to buy them, but because how much money he made.

Everytime someone comes up and throw whatever criticism toward him, they'll mention how much money he managed to bring for Nintendo. This is a trademark argument from his fans.

Like you said, Nintendo can make hits or misses, but Iwata's bets are very risk ones. Sure, he scored big time with DS and Wii, touch-screen and motion controls were great implementations which improved the gameplay to an unprecedented level. That's why both DS and Wii were the sales phenomenon they were. When I say risky, is because he relies heavily on a feature to sell a machine and if that don't work, it may turn the machine completely unappealing. What if the motion controller wasn't well received, would the Wii survive? It had an underpowered hardware, unappealing controller for core gaming (reason for many core games never coming for Wii) and awful online network, in short, it was a hardware mostly built solely for motion control gameplay.

This is what's happening with WiiU and, somewhat, with 3DS. WiiU's gamepad isn't, so far, bringing anything new for the gameplay like Wii's motion controller managed to brought and isn't appealing to whenever audience in the market. WiiU isn't a powerhouse and won't appeal to the mark for it's hardware power and if the gamepad didn't manage to offer this "unique experience" that Iwata's direction heavily rely on, WiiU can't compete. I hate saying this "Nintendo can't compete" bullshit because I disagree completely with it. A well-managed Nintendo would never become uncompetitive, but under Iwata's direction, this is true and it's what Nintendo is becoming in the console market.

You said a design company it's about fostering a creative culture where people are free to work and create. How can that be for Nintendo? Like Shikamaru Ninja said, Nintendo is now very Miyamoto-centric and their hardware isn't appealing for most of third-party, hence it's lack of support from them. I don't think Iwata's direction offers freedom of work and creation.

Iwata's past choices had negative impacts on Nintendo in a long term strategy. Remember his quotes from years ago about how he was against online gameplay, HD development and how graphics couldn't improve no more? It's no mystery for why Nintendo is struggling now to adapt to HD development, hence the multiple delays for WiiU's games and to create a proper online network. His casual heavily focus for Wii was later regretted by him. It didn't managed to bring long term profits for Nintendo, hence Wii's consequential third-party support loss and premature death.

That said, Nintendo made a lot of wise choices in the past five years: they locked up Japan, which they feel is their cash cow market now largely abandoned by Sony and with Microsoft non-existent.

Japanese developers are slowly adapting themselves to the western model. Their games are trying to appeal to a western demographics. Becoming japanese-centric in a western-based world wasn't a wise decision, quite the opposite, it enhanced Nintendo's restrictiveness.

They also went on a hiring binge and got talent that was being laid off by other companies, and setup partnerships and joint-development opportunities with companies like Platinum and Mistwalker and Namco Bandai and Tecmo Koei - completely changing the way the majority of the game development community in Japan saw them. This took incredible time and effort frankly. Other than that, Nintendo has expanded Monolithsoft, Retro, and fostered relationships with a dozen smaller studios in Kyoto that are offshoots of employees from Konami, Square, etc.

Like you said, in Japan, outside of it, those companies no longer have the same height they had before or have inside Japan. It's good for Nintendo to foster relationships with japanese third-parties, no doubt, but why they don't try to foster with western developers as well?

They've also had to build out an entire OS team and built a social network through a partnership which they are managing internally. Nintendo also had to hire, over the past few years, tons of people in network engineering to bulk up on their core software abilities - unlike Microsoft which had people ready to go on that front. They are still lacking on this front but it's come a very long way and will improve - Sony is evidence of that. Even the Xbox has changed dramatically over the years.

Yes, they're struggling to build a social network. This reminds why Iwata was so against online gaming a few years ago and, yet, Nintendo still prioritize local multiplayer over online.

In your world, they would have abandoned a few of the ideas above, and gone to the West where there were two camps: one were non-gaming executives running gaming companies fighting over the same pool of 1000-1200 developers, inflating salaries out of control, and desperate to try and release another shoot-bang game on HD consoles. Another group of people were proclaiming the end of traditional games as Zynga was going public and venture capitalists were dumping millions into Facebook games.

I hear this argument constantly. Everytime when someone suggests a shift of Nintendo's direction, someone comes up with this "how dangerous and unprofitable the current gaming model is for them" talk.

This is a stereotyped view of the market. Nintendo don't need to play it safe, play it cheap to remain competitive and they can afford to compete. When it comes to HD development, Iwata's defenders automatically associate it to AAA business model, 50-100 millions budget, dudebro and cinematic experiences. This is strawmen talk.

They can adapt themselves to the HD development without the need to follow any of these models. I think it would actually improve the HD development as a whole if Nintendo insert their philosophy on it, actually better for Nintendo rather than insist into this "low-tech, cheap" approach they have.

So then, what should Nintendo have done in the West? Throw millions into California-based companies for no reason? Buy up studios only for the talent to leave? Money hat a bunch of games from developers that had no interest in making Wii games? I keep hearing all this talk about "Nintendo and West" - but there aren't a lot of compelling things Nintendo could have done. Building studios takes years, and Nintendo isn't just going to throw millions for another nightmare like Retro to occur which consumed incredible time from NCL and EAD.

Why going after better western third-party support is "no reason"? How is Retro a "nightmare" for Nintendo if it's now one of the most praised Nintendo's internal teams? You talk like fostering western relationships is negative and would badly affect Nintendo. Sorry, but this is silliness and only japanophilist fanboys can see it that way.

As for your tirade about Iwata neutering NoA. NoA has been dead for years. That's the truth. Treehouse is the last good thing about it and that's because Nintendo's core localization team has been together FOREVER and all their kids go to school together - they are incredibly tight and will never leave unless something drastic happens. The rest of NoA? The Wii was such a novel product that many people coasted through, even though they had the ability to really get deep and do some impressive things with their fan community. That's a failure of Reggie and other execs, not Iwata who basically gave them the freedom to do what they wanted and even made a bunch of games like Xenoblade available for them to localize.

Iwata was the one who disassembled NoA's development teams. Before him, it was a powerhouse and a lot of Nintendo's internal development were conducted there. Shikamaru Ninja made an excellent post regarding this in a previous thread. Here:

From 1990-2000. Nintendo of America had production and management autonomy from Japan. NOA basically culminated its own production team, along a few co-designers, and started funding and producing games with developers.

DMA Design: Uni Racers, Body Harvest (Nintendo dropped it in 1997, Midway took it)
Angel Studios: Ken Griffey Baseball, Buggie Boogie (canceled)
Bits Studios: Warlocked, Riqa (canceled)
Rare: Donkey Kong Country, Killer Instinct, Goldeneye 007, Perfect Dark
Software Creations: Ken Griffey Baseball, Tin Star
Silicon Knights: Eternal Darkness (N64 version)
Left Field Productions: Kobey Bryant in NBA Courtside, Excitebike 64
Looking Glass Studio: Mini Racers (canceled)
Mass Media: Star Craft 64
H20: Tetrisphere
Saffire Corp: Nester's Funky Bowling, James Bond 007
Midway: Cruisn Series

Nintendo of America also procured the Ken Griffey and MLBPA license, NHL License, Kobe Bryant and NBA license, PGA license, Disney license, James Bond license, StarCraft license. Star Wars Episode I license. They were producing their own first-party games separate from Nintendo of Japan.

That all changed when Iwata transitioned from Global Marketing Chief to President. NOA Production was killed, and Nintendo of Japan's SPD Department took over all Western development (Star Fox Adventures, Geist, Eternal Darkness GC).

Henry Sterchi, Brian Ullrich, Ken Lobb, Ed Ridgeway, Jeff Hutt, Faran Thomason, and the whole crew left NOA to Microsoft and other developers. Since then, we've seen the Western model we have today. Western developers reporting directly to Japanese management, and pretty much making B/C sequels to Nintendo IPs.

The human resource issue in the US partially exists because Nintendo has a unique way of going about hiring people. It doesn't want to hire mercenaries like Peter Moore who will sell their soul for a few bucks and jump company to company (some would argue Moore killed the Dreamcast just to curry favor with Microsoft and he himself said that Microsoft helped arrange his transfer to EA because they saw an opportunity to corner both Nintendo and Sony). Nintendo hires people who are passionate about their products, and are motivated by things beyond money - much like Howard Lincoln and Peter Main were during their tenure at Nintendo. Just consider this: Iwata gets paid $1.2 million bucks a year - Bobby Kotick who doesn't even play games - made over 50x that in a single year.

Do you honestly believe Nintendo's old folks in their 50/60's play games at all? Do you believe REGGIE play games after all his out of touch statements?

This is all my opinion frankly, and I say this more to try and counter this ridiculous and IMHO ethnocentric inertia of "Iwata is a fool, doesn't get the West, and is keeping NoA weak cause Japanese companies are pride LOL lol lol!!111" - but I hope what I say will resonate with some of you - running Nintendo isn't a joke - Iwata is a great executive who is finally growing into his role. Yamauchi made LOTS of mistakes early on and Nintendo lost a ton of money with his ill-advised ventures. But that's the beauty of Nintendo - they really want to grow their executives and give them leeway to make mistakes - Iwata will learn - and when he figures out NoA - I am sure Nintendo will have an amazing core team in both Japan and America.

Although Yamauchi did mistakes, Nintendo never lost money under him, something they did under Iwata. May I remind you that Iwata kept most of Yamauchi's business models intact till today besides all the demonizing toward Yamauchi management. Do you believe Nintendo don't control the manufacturing and demand for third-parties's 3DS cartridges? This is a statement circa 2010 from Alchemist detailing Nintendo's business practices:

After Iwata's big speech at the 3DS announcement, about how third party games are not selling like Nintendo's, Alchemist's boss got a little infuriated, and posted a blog entry to vent his anger: http://www.alchemist-net.co.jp/nikki/?p=2741

The crux of the matter is that a lot of the issues with 3rd parties on Nintendo hardware are still Nintendo's fault. In particular, the software manufacturing process leaves a lot to be desired. Here are the key points mentioned:

1. Repeat manufacture starts from X thousand units.
Say your game is more popular than you expected (or you were a little too "safe" with first run numbers). If you decide to manufacture more copies, Nintendo says you must start with X thousand (the X is secret because of NDA). Other hardware manufacturers start at 100. There's a massive risk involved for smaller publishers, in particular, here.

2. Manufacture turnaround time is 3-4 weeks.
In the case of DS games, it takes Nintendo 3-4 weeks to manufacture a second run of carts. Other hardware manufacturers have a one week turnaround. When your game is selling like hot cakes, you can understand the need to get extra units out quickly. Nintendo, apparently, doesn't.

3. Manufacturing costs have to be paid 100% upfront
Other hardware manufacturers are not mentioned here, but the example is given that "let's say it costs 1000 yen per unit to manufacture" (actual cost depends on cart size), and if a game is expected to be a big hit and sell 1 million units, that's 1 billion yen that has to be paid upfront. That's a ridiculous amount and causes a bit of a headache as far as company capital goes. He suggests reducing it to 1/3 upfront payment, to ease the problem.

4. Nintendo could try to help with TV advertising
Right now, Nintendo is sponsoring a lot of TV shows via advertising. It would be a good opportunity for Nintendo to sub-let advertising, at a reasonable price (thanks cvxfreak) to third parties during these programmes.

He mentions the last point is really a personal request, but the others are serious issues.

tl;dr --- There really isn't anyone better than Iwata who has the respect within Nintendo's creative teams, support from shareholders, and an overall desire to see it move forward, that could come in and do the things that an extremely off-beat culture like Nintendo is now doing for the future.

I honestly doubt shareholders will keep supporting him if Nintendo continue to loose money for the next years.
 
^^What a useless graphic.

Nope. We've had these topics before during the N64, GCN, DS, Wii era's. Nothings changed.

Every console generation Nintendo is doomed and every time Nintendo is still around at the end with others meeting their death. In the handheld space you might as well officially call Nintendo the undisputed champion since they'd had the market since the 80's. Nearly 30 years. Their hit and miss in the home console space but that's to be expected as the competition is stiffer. Nintendo still manages to take a piece of the pie no matter how significant it is. They don't need to be console leaders every generation.

At the end of the day it's the same recurring discussions with the same recurring F.U.D.
 
I completely agree that this is a significant issue for Nintendo, but short term as far as why Wii U is failing, I think the answer is a lot simpler and comes down to games games games with a little bit of price thrown in.

I would add a variety of games and not simply games, games. The later and the lack of the former is how we get two platformers providing experiences previously had as THE main holiday offerings. Them scrambling by putting out a port of a GameCube game and then charging for a collection of what should have been pre-installed tech demos.

One of my big issues is that Nintendo knows it's software offerings are an issue. They've made comments suggesting that. Why do they continue to not push the third party support they do have that can make up for it? Why not work with Ubisoft to show off the Wii U version of Watch_Dogs and show how the gamepad works? Why not ask them to prepare a Wii U demo of Assassin's Creed 4? Same with Warner Bros and Batman Origins? Why is that Yakuza HD game staying Japan only and not translated to some degree (just text and not voices) when they know full well the Wii U will be missing out on Grand Theft Auto V? Why wasn't Sonic Lost World a big part of the E3 Direct or their own booth given it's exclusive nature? I have a theory but it might be a bit tin foil hatish. That game looks to be delivering what people wanted when they say they wanted a 3D Mario. So I would even go so far to say those disappointed in Super Mario 3D World have their game for the holiday. Buy Sonic. However I don't think Nintendo wants to provide that possibility at all and just decided to bury it in the sizzle reel. It's not like they didn't have time. They had all the time in the world since they filmed a video and didn't have a live conference. This is why I think they blew this E3. They had enough games to put on a decent show if they tried.

So not only did Nintendo not take the right steps to prepare themselves for the Wii U. They're seemingly either afraid or simply incapable of showcasing products they themselves had no part in creating but does help provide balance to their line up. Even in the face of a lack of titles from themselves and a lack of variety. Are they afraid of that the customers they do have will prefer those type of titles instead of their own offerings when give the choice and spotlight is shown on them?
 
Nope. We've had these topics before during the N64, GCN, DS, Wii era's. Nothings changed.

Every console generation Nintendo is doomed and every time Nintendo is still around at the end with others meeting their death. In the handheld space you might as well officially call Nintendo the undisputed champion since they'd had the market since the 80's. Nearly 30 years. Their hit and miss in the home console space but that's to be expected as the competition is stiffer. Nintendo still manages to take a piece of the pie no matter how significant it is. They don't need to be console leaders every generation.

At the end of the day it's the same recurring discussions with the same recurring F.U.D.

It's a useless graphic because it inaccurately portrays the actual arguments of people criticizing Nintendo. Nobody said Nintendo is going to die. Nintendo can, however, become increasingly irrelevant.
 
I could have written a series of pithy paragraphs if you prefer.

Three paragraphs about how it's hard to hire people of the Nintendo standard and that they should be praised for the effort they've put into this? It's apologist nonsense. The company has had a whole generation to prepare for HD development, an extra 8 years over everyone else, to watch the mistakes of others, and learn from them, as they accumulated mountains of cash. They've had ample time to prepare and have shown themselves woefully under-prepared despite that. That is not something deserving of praise.

Derogative dismissal of the Western industry to a bunch of shoot-bang studios and nonsense about EA folding? Really? That's what a string of people think is spot on analysis.

The idea that "Nintendo is a design company that doesn't focus on trends" in itself is nonsense. I'm sorry but one would have to be highly credulous to believe that the 3DS's USP and the Wii U's USP aren't reactionary to the climate at the time, and frankly a misreading of people's interest in either.

It amounts to little more than a firm belief that Nintendo, and by extension Iwata, (or vice versa considering the extent to which this cult of personality has taken hold) are infallible in their decisions.

I'm sorry but I completely agree here. The dismissal of the western industry by that post and quite frankly by many here is quite concerning. It harkens back to the mantra of "NIntendo doesn't need 3rd parties" and now its "Nintendo doesn't need the west" when even NIntendo has admitted that 3rd party (whether it be indie or major) are vital to their sucesss. The comparison to Apple is completely laughable. Nintendo was maybe comparable to Apple for like 2-3 years in the early days of the Wii and DS in finding a product that simplified the experience for the users and putting out a product for them. The comparison ends there and doesn't continue. Iwata either doesn't have the control he wants from the board of directors or is completely incompetent himself but Steve Jobs would probably laugh at the state of Nintendo right now.

The Apple that bought up so many development companies and massively expanded to take the telephone market for themselves. The Apple who actually knew what the internet was and used it so effectively in creating a marketplace? The calls that Steve Jobs was a figurehead are always pretty funny. He definitely did not make the iPhone as some Apple fanatics would cry, but he was CEO who was willing to get his hands dirty.


While Iwata was CEO and helped the Wii and DS reach some pretty spectacularly heights, he's made a series of completely and flat out stupid comments over the years that make him seem as shortsighted as many of Iwata's followers would bash. "Conusmers don't want online" being the most egregious and dumb. Recently he talked about how Nintendo wasn't the type of company to do a F2P game. Flash forward to now. They've talked up how great their online system was and even had the gall to include FriendCodes in the 3DS in fucking 2011. Nintendo is a great game maker, but come on now, there are severe problems with the company that just shutting up and putting your hands over your ears and pretending like Nintendo and Iwata are infalliable does remove.

Finally, I honestly just don't get why people feel the need to defend Iwata. He's not some poor citizen and contrary to what the Nintendo Directs would have you believe he is not your friend. The cult of personality that has formed around him is pretty strange. I would say the same for Kaz, but that's a different topic.
 
I would add a variety of games and not simply games, games. The later and the lack of the former is how we get two platformers providing experiences previously had as THE main holiday offerings. Them scrambling by putting out a port of a GameCube game and then charging for a collection of what should have been pre-installed tech demos.

One of my big issues is that Nintendo knows it's software offerings are an issue. They've made comments suggesting that. Why do they continue to not push the third party support they do have that can make up for it? Why not work with Ubisoft to show off the Wii U version of Watch_Dogs and show how the gamepad works? Why not ask them to prepare a Wii U demo of Assassin's Creed 4? Same with Warner Bros and Batman Origins? Why is that Yakuza HD game staying Japan only and not translated to some degree (just text and not voices) when they know full well the Wii U will be missing out on Grand Theft Auto V? Why wasn't Sonic Lost World a big part of the E3 Direct or their own booth given it's exclusive nature? I have a theory but it might be a bit tin foil hatish. That game looks to be delivering what people wanted when they say they wanted a 3D Mario. So I would even go so far to say those disappointed in Super Mario 3D World have their game for the holiday. Buy Sonic. However I don't think Nintendo wants to provide that possibility at all and just decided to bury it in the sizzle reel. It's not like they didn't have time. They had all the time in the world since they filmed a video and didn't have a live conference.

So not only did Nintendo not take the right steps to prepare themselves for the Wii U. They're seemingly either afraid or simply incapable of showcasing products they themselves had no part in creating but does help provide balance to their line up. Even in the face of a lack of titles from themselves and a lack of variety. Are they afraid of that the customers they do have will prefer those type of titles instead of their own offerings when give the choice and spotlight is shown on them?

I agree with you in general on helping to market 3rd party titles, but completely disagree with you on Sonic- Nintendo landed a deal for exclusivity and featured it heavily in a Direct before E3.
 
Iwata you cheeky bastard.

Anyways, it may not even be his call in the end, if the Wii U still sells as well as a sack of shit going into next year, like it is right now, he might get fired.
 
The Wii u itself is a double edge sword. They won't be able to attract the people who wants double edge graphics and millions poured into marketing because of its lower end standard and the won't satisfy the casual market because its not easy and accessible as the Wii and the DS was. Not to mention the poorly thought out Hardware designs and its challenging software applications inside that machine. There is also countless restrictions such as non-transferable data and region locking that will keep some people at bay. Its too complex and not complex at the same time.

I would love it to succeed, but thinking over the whole thing, is really an attractive machine to anyone who isn't a hardcore Nintendo fan? At least Gamecube was cute, simple and was understood easily to be able to host some casual alternative such as Mario Party and Mario Kart, while Their hardcore games had quality output that wowed you from design perspective. N64 was a revolutionary console at the time and had it great share of attractive attributes. What does the Wii U have that will make you want one in the near future?

As a gamer, I am sort of happy about its releases so far and I am excited to see what else is there, because I am easily content. But if you are Capcom or EA, How is that console attractive?
 
The Apple that bought up so many development companies and massively expanded to take the telephone market for themselves. The Apple who actually knew what the internet was and used it so effectively in creating a marketplace? The calls that Steve Jobs was a figurehead are always pretty funny. He definitely did not make the iPhone as some Apple fanatics would cry, but he was CEO who was willing to get his hands dirty.

Bingo.

The Apple comparisons always confuse me, because they don't seem to extend beyond simple aesthetic which, well, isn't really enough to make the comparison meaningful. Iwata may have a similar fetish for pearl white hardware with soft edges, but that's where the comparisons end. When it comes to how they deal in their respective markets, Iwata couldn't be more unlike Jobs if he tried. Steve Jobs was fucking ruthless in how he handled the competition, and was ALWAYS aware of the landscape. Iwata is incredibly shortsighted and slow to react by comparison.
 
Bingo.

The Apple comparisons always confuse me, because they don't seem to extend beyond simple aesthetic which, well, isn't really enough to make the comparison meaningful. Iwata may have a similar fetish for pearl white hardware with soft edges, but that's where the comparisons end. When it comes to how they deal in their respective markets, Iwata couldn't be more unlike Jobs if he tried. Steve Jobs was fucking ruthless in how he handled the competition, and was ALWAYS aware of the landscape. Iwata is incredibly shortsighted and slow to react by comparison.

That is a very weak argument that doesn't have any basis. Short-sighted? Iwata locked up Monster Hunter and Dragon Quest in Japan. If that isn't ruthlessness in the market, I don't what it is. If anything, Iwata is more aware of his perspective market since he was a game dev at one point, plays games and communicate with gamers directly with his Nintendo Direct sessions. Talk to devs and is aware of various activities that takes place around him.
 
That is a very weak argument that doesn't have any basis. Short-sighted? Iwata locked up Monster Hunter and Dragon Quest in Japan. If that isn't ruthlessness in the market, I don't what it is.

Ok so he locked up Monster Hunter and Dragon Quest in Japan. There is more than Japan and that has very little relevance for Wii U because MH is not popular on consoles and they couldn't get more than an MMO for consoles. He's shortsighted or the board is shortsighted when it comes to anything outside of Japan. And hell the Wii U is a disaster in Japan as well with worse JPN 3rd party support than western 3rd party support. Iwata (or whoever people want to blame) completely failed to capitalize on the success of the Wii, didn't invest enough to be ready for a new gen and was caught completely off guard that the Wii didn't sell record breaking numbers forever.
 
It's a useless graphic because it inaccurately portrays the actual arguments of people criticizing Nintendo. Nobody said Nintendo is going to die. Nintendo can, however, become increasingly irrelevant.

Wut?

Yes because this topic is about how successful Iwata is and how Nintendo is riding on a successful wave...yep! yep!
 
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