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[Mario007]

In whose eyes, man with Kazuo Hirai avatar? For those who actually enjoy what Nintendo offers on a wider scale, they then know that they are much much more than a producer of just Mario games. In the end, sales mean nothing to me as long as I can still play their games.

Once again you equate Iwata with Nintendo as a whole. It's not as if Nintendo will stop releasing Mario games or Zelda games. It just means that the company might have a chance of being in a healthier position come next console since the systematic errors that Iwata seems to be fond of could disappear.

Re my Kaz avatar...I'd be the first person to scream Kaz should be kicked out if he was fucking up Sony. I was pissed at Singer for the same reasons. Just as, I assume, many Xbox fans want Mattrick to be kicked out following what has happened with Xbox in the recent years. Krazy Ken was given the boot following the ps3 launch and I think many people were too regretful over that.

Considering almost everyone I know with a 3DS loves the system, I don't think the direction is that bad.

3DS had to use a huge amount of Nintendo manpower and huge losses (or the first real loss they ever made) in order to make it into a system that it is now (and it's still down YoY this year, as far as I know). All this because of a completely botched launch which Nintendo repeated almost identically with the Wii U. That's what I meant.

 

[royalan]

Where have you been?

Well, none of the posts I have been paying attention to have tried to make that argument. heh.

That is a very weak argument that doesn't have any basis. Short-sighted? Iwata locked up Monster Hunter and Dragon Quest in Japan. If that isn't ruthlessness in the market, I don't what it is. If anything, Iwata is more aware of his perspective market since he was a game dev at one point, plays games and communicate with gamers directly with his Nintendo Direct sessions. Talk to devs and is aware of various activities that takes place around him.

In my opinion, the shortsightedness comes from that fact that the majority of Iwata's strategic moves seem to involve doing what he's always done, which is shoring up Japan with strategic partnerships. This doesn't really address what is quickly becoming two of Nintendo's biggest issues: their declining relevance in the West, and creating a platform that's healthy for organic third party support (i.e. getting third parties to create games for your platform because they see a strategic/financial benefit in doing so, and not just relegating support to a handful of "partnerships").

 

[metalslimer]

Wut?

Yes because this topic is about how successful Iwata is and how Nintendo is riding on a successful wave...yep! yep!

Come on now. Most people know Nintendo has a shit ton of money in the bank. At worst people will talk about the end of their console business, or maybe talk 3rd party crap. I'd sau 95% of people talking about Nintendo's failures aren't stupid enough to think they will die anytime soon.

Where have you been?

Reading this thread it was posted in. Where have you been?

 

[BlackJace]

I just find it amusing how Iwata has become the personification of all of the problems Nintendo has. The man is responsible for a lot of the good that has come out of it.
If you have problems with Nintendo, I urge that you take your sights off of one man and adjust them towards the multiple people that make decisions as well.

Reading this thread it was posted in. Where have you been?

I actually wasn't replying to you, but okay.

 

[metalslimer]

I just find it amusing how Iwata has become the personification of all of the problems Nintendo has. The man is responsible for a lot of the good that has come out of it.
If you have problems with Nintendo, I urge that you take your sights off of one man and adjust them towards the multiple people that make decisions as well.


I actually wasn't replying to you, but okay.

Yes I find it funny people blame the CEO for problems with a company as well. Whether it's the board of Iwata (which people have actually discussed the whole corporate structure at Nintendo needs to change) people are discussing the issues that they have. Also how in the world will you discriminate between what good Iwata has done recently vs the bad when you are aguing we don't know what Iwata is doing vs the rest of the company.

 

[Mario007]

I just find it amusing how Iwata has become the personification of all of the problems Nintendo has. The man is responsible for a lot of the good that has come out of it.
If you have problems with Nintendo, I urge that you take your sights off of one man and adjust them towards the multiple people that make decisions as well.


I actually wasn't replying to you, but okay.

Kaz is responsible for Sony, Ballmer for MS, Cook for MS, Page for Google etc. That's the job of the CEO. All of those people report to Iwata and he reviews their actions.

 

[TreasureHunterG]

Regarding tehrik's posts earlier (Which I agree are quite good), I don't think most (reasonable) detractors here are saying that Nintendo is doing nothing smart at all right now. That zero good choices of any kind are being made.

Instead, I'd compare it to the launch of the Wii and DS. During that time, of course Nintendo made some mistakes; no company of 4,000+ people goes years without making some. However, Nintendo's insights that 1) graphics were not that important any longer to the market and 2) the casual audience was much larger than Sony/MS was giving it credit for and deserved to be taken seriously were so bright, so brilliant, that any mistakes Nintendo made in that time frame were simply drowned out by the brilliance of these two profound insights.

Similarly, in today's market, Nintendo's significant lag in networking functionality is such a serious concern that any good choices they make are not that important unless and until their mistakes with networking are fully fixed. Just as many detractors of the Wii/DS refused to acknowledge how important Nintendo's insights were in that era, I think many supporters of the 3DS/Wii U are dismissing serious concerns about networking, These networking complaints are much more serious than is usually discussed; not only does Nintendo still not have a standard account system (the typical complaint), but their general network infrastructure is poor (no dedicated servers, store UIs are often awkward and difficult to navigate on 3DS), their UI doesn't effectively advertise online sales the way XBL prominently features sales on their front page; and Nintendo still has made very little attempt to cultivate first party, online focused games, whether those be casual games like Farmville or "core" games. Even many established Nintendo franchises that cry out for networking have still not implemented it, such as Mario Party.

To summarize: I feel Nintendo's relative weakness in networking is such a significant weakness that any other good things they're doing now are muted in comparison.

Great post, Opiate.

I'm sorry but I completely agree here. The dismissal of the western industry by that post and quite frankly by many here is quite concerning. It harkens back to the mantra of "NIntendo doesn't need 3rd parties" and now its "Nintendo doesn't need the west" when even NIntendo has admitted that 3rd party (whether it be indie or major) are vital to their sucesss. The comparison to Apple is completely laughable. Nintendo was maybe comparable to Apple for like 2-3 years in the early days of the Wii and DS in finding a product that simplified the experience for the users and putting out a product for them. The comparison ends there and doesn't continue. Iwata either doesn't have the control he wants from the board of directors or is completely incompetent himself but Steve Jobs would probably laugh at the state of Nintendo right now.

The Apple that bought up so many development companies and massively expanded to take the telephone market for themselves. The Apple who actually knew what the internet was and used it so effectively in creating a marketplace? The calls that Steve Jobs was a figurehead are always pretty funny. He definitely did not make the iPhone as some Apple fanatics would cry, but he was CEO who was willing to get his hands dirty.


While Iwata was CEO and helped the Wii and DS reach some pretty spectacularly heights, he's made a series of completely and flat out stupid comments over the years that make him seem as shortsighted as many of Iwata's followers would bash. "Conusmers don't want online" being the most egregious and dumb. Recently he talked about how Nintendo wasn't the type of company to do a F2P game. Flash forward to now. They've talked up how great their online system was and even had the gall to include FriendCodes in the 3DS in fucking 2011. Nintendo is a great game maker, but come on now, there are severe problems with the company that just shutting up and putting your hands over your ears and pretending like Nintendo and Iwata are infalliable does remove.

Finally, I honestly just don't get why people feel the need to defend Iwata. He's not some poor citizen and contrary to what the Nintendo Directs would have you believe he is not your friend. The cult of personality that has formed around him is pretty strange. I would say the same for Kaz, but that's a different topic.

Also great.

 

[BlackJace]

Yes I find it funny people blame the CEO for problems with a company as well.

With the way some people talk about Iwata, they see him alone as the bane of the company, and that his removal would somehow shoot Nintendo back up to the heavens. That, my friend, is funny.

 

[royalan]

I just find it amusing how Iwata has become the personification of all of the problems Nintendo has. The man is responsible for a lot of the good that has come out of it.
If you have problems with Nintendo, I urge that you take your sights off of one man and adjust them towards the multiple people that make decisions as well.

And who would those people be, and why do they deserve more blame than the man that functions as CEO of the company?

Look, I think multiple heads need to roll at Nintendo. I just don't see a case being made for why Iwata shouldn't be one of them...other than the fact that he seems like such a nice guy, has great hair for his age, and is adorably goofy to watch in the Nintendo Directs. Problem is, all of this has jack-shit to do with his job performance these days.

 

[metalslimer]

With the way some people talk about Iwata, they see him alone as the bane of the company, and that his removal would somehow shoot Nintendo back up to the heavens. That, my friend, is funny.

Iwata is the CEO. He is the representation of the company. If people are attributing the company to him, then thats what he is there for, but on the flip side if you want to take the bad away from Iwata you have to remove the Wii and DS as being his as well. This is the flipside to the argument of claiming people can't attribute the bad decisions at Nintendo to Iwata. You can't have it both ways then, so then Iwata's successes are in question as well and then where does that leave him exactly? I'm not saying you specifically but I've noticed a lot of people talking about how Iwata has done so much good for company and we can't blame him for all the problems not realizing the irony of doing so. So a decision has to be made. Either Iwata gets credit for Nintendo's past success and also has to take the blame for current failures or he was never really responsible for all of it begin with and therefore what would be the harm in a new CEO if the board is overruling him and making bad decisions anyway?

 

[SenatorBot]

Speaking of Iwata's strategic partnerships with japan, you can say that he's doing it but the results show otherwise. Where are the third party support from japan?

Here are the upcoming PS3 games that should be coming on the Wii U as well because Nintendo supposedly have a extremely tight knit relationship with japanese developers

EDF 2025 by sandlot
Dragon's Crown by Atlus
Killer is dead by SUDA51
FFXIV Online by SE
JoJo's bizzare adventure by Bamco
Lost Planet 3 by Capcom
Tales of Symphonia by Bandai-Namco
Sengoku Basara 4 by Capcom

We're seeing more and more games from japanese developers that just completely ignore the Wii U entirely. If Nintendo supposedly is concentrating all their resources in courting japanese developers, why aren't these games coming on the Wii U if Iwata was supposed doing a great job at developing a relationship with japan?

 

[Father_Brain]

Here is my main issue with Nintendo as I see it- I think I fall on the side that thinks chasing the western shooter crowd is a lost cause and would largely be a waste of money. If I was in charge of Nintendo, I would double down on my strengths- both in first party development and my relationships with Japanese companies. I think that is what Nintendo is going for

The issue?

I see little evidence right now that Nintendo is actually accomplishing this goal (home console wise)

Wii U first party output is anemic, and frankly, for launch and 2013 does not look terribly ambitious.

Outside of a few collaborations, Japanese 3rd party support is non existent.

If you are essentially conceding a market, you have to make up for it in another area. Right now I'm not seeing either an increased 1st party presence or strong Japanese support to make up for it. IF Iwata/Nintendo was very aggressive I think there would be an opportunity to really expand Japanese development- but right now I see no signs they are doing what they need to do.

Yeah, this. I understand that any attempt to compete directly with Sony/MS for the ~17-35-year-old male Western gamer would be a long shot, but it's overwhelmingly clear at this point that they have no coherent alternate vision for what Wii U's market is. All I really see is doubling down on the Mario/Zelda faithful and praying that the Wii ____ brand can repeat its last-gen success, and it looks increasingly likely to me that that won't even get them to GC's LTD.

Speaking of Iwata's strategic partnerships with japan, you can say that he's doing it but the results show otherwise. Where are the third party support from japan?

Here are the upcoming PS3 games that should be coming on the Wii U as well because Nintendo supposedly have a extremely tight knit relationship with japanese developers

EDF 2025 by sandlot
Dragon's Crown by Atlus
Killer is dead by SUDA51
FFXIV Online by SE
JoJo's bizzare adventure by Bamco
Lost Planet 3 by Capcom
Tales of Symphonia
Sengoku Basara 4 by Capcom

We're seeing more and more games from japanese developers that just completely ignore the Wii U entirely. If Nintendo supposedly is concentrating all their resources in courting japanese developers, why aren't these games coming on the Wii U as well if Iwata was supposed doing a great job at developing a relationship with japan?

Yep. Tehrik made some interesting points, though I don't agree with all of them, but the bit about Nintendo locking up Japan seems to have come from some alternate reality.

 

[royalan]

Speaking of Iwata's strategic partnerships with japan, you can say that he's doing it but the results show otherwise. Where are the third party support from japan?

Here are the upcoming PS3 games that should be coming on the Wii U as well because Nintendo supposedly have a extremely tight knit relationship with japanese developers

EDF 2025 by sandlot
Dragon's Crown by Atlus
Killer is dead by SUDA51
FFXIV Online by SE
JoJo's bizzare adventure by Bamco
Lost Planet 3 by Capcom
Tales of Symphonia
Sengoku Basara 4 by Capcom

We're seeing more and more games from japanese developers that just completely ignore the Wii U entirely. If Nintendo supposedly is concentrating all their resources in courting japanese developers, why aren't these games coming on the Wii U as well if Iwata was supposed doing a great job at developing a relationship with japan?

The million dollar question. I wasn't being sarcastic when I asked this question a page ago. I'd genuinely like to know the answer here...

 

[BlackJace]

Iwata is the CEO. He is the representation of the company. If people are attributing the company to him, then thats what he is there for, but on the flip side if you want to take the bad away from Iwata you have to remove the Wii and DS as being his as well. This is the flipside to the argument of claiming people can't attribute the bad decisions at Nintendo to Iwata. You can't have it both ways then, so then Iwata's successes are in question as well and then where does that leave him exactly? I'm not saying you specifically but I've noticed a lot of people talking about how Iwata has done so much good for company and we can't blame him for all the problems not realizing the irony of doing so.

I'm not actually disagreeing with you. Iwata doesn't have much to show after the Wii and DS (even though the 3DS is somewhat successful now). However, I think people call for his blood just a tad to much; like I said, some make it sound like the man is absolutely destroying the company. On the other hand, some act as though he's making it the best its been in years, which is also incorrect. At the end of the day, I just see him as a rather average CEO. I enjoy his enthusiasm and like to see him in Directs. Other than that, I have no real opinions about him.

 

[TreasureHunterG]

We're seeing more and more games from japanese developers that just completely ignore the Wii U entirely. If Nintendo supposedly is concentrating all their resources in courting japanese developers, why aren't these games coming on the Wii U if Iwata was supposed doing a great job at developing a relationship with japan?

Bingo.

This undermine the "Nintendo has Japan locked up" argument. Where are the exclusiveness from japanese third-parties for WiiU?

 

[metalslimer]

The million dollar question. I wasn't being sarcastic when I asked this question a page ago. I'd genuinely like to know the answer here...

I also have to say that Nintendo should still be actively aggressive in the 3DS market in Japan as well. Securing the big games is great, and 3DS will dominate Japan for the remainder of the gen, but why not work with Square Enix to get some of the iOS games on the 3DS eshop. Localizations continue to be a huge problem and what happens when Nintendo takes the foot off the pedal with the 3DS to focus on Wii U in the west?

 

[metalslimer]

I'm not actually disagreeing with you. Iwata doesn't have much to show after the Wii and DS (even though the 3DS is somewhat successful now). However, I think people call for his blood just a tad to much; like I said, some make it sound like the man is absolutely destroying the company. On the other hand, some act as though he's making it the best its been in years, which is also incorrect. At the end of the day, I just see him as a rather average CEO. I enjoy his enthusiasm and like to see him in Directs. Other than that, I have no real opinions about him.

Well I agree and like the directs and all, but like I said people don't know the names of the board members and Iwata as CEO is representation of the company so when people throw everything on Iwata (I've tried to be clear I'm talking about the whole management in my posts) it is also a complaint against the whole coroporate top over there.

Edit: Woops dp.

 

[DragonSworne]

From what we know about next year, Nintendo is doing that with Bayonetta 2, X and Yoshi. There won't be a 3D Mario or Donkey Kong to rely on either. It's going to be interesting to see how it unfolds.

There won't be a 3d Mario and donkey long according to who?

 

[SolidSnakex]

Speaking of Iwata's strategic partnerships with japan, you can say that he's doing it but the results show otherwise. Where are the third party support from japan?

I find this most shocking about the Wii U support. The Japanese support is in many ways worse than the western support. With the western support you at least have new franchises or new releases from established franchises. But with the Japanese Wii U support so far the biggest releases are ports of old games like Monster Hunter, Yakuza or Dragon Quest. They've recently secured some Sonic exclusives, but that's it as far as new major support from a Japanese developer.

 

[DragonSworne]

Given his last comments about third party support, Iwata believe that third parties will provide more support once Wii U starts selling better.

Only a fool will take this proposition because it ignores the kind of demographic that is being built and conditioned on Wii U, gamers that buy and only buy Nintendo or Nintendo like games.

Ubisoft is going to find out this lesson this holiday season the hard way.

 

[w1gglyjones]

Considering that the critics all (more or less) agree that the Wii U isn't going to kill Nintendo... there is plenty of time for Nintendo to become relevant again after the Wii U, either with the "core" or the "casual"

And then the only thing left will be these old repeated criticisms of the failing of Nintendo led by CEO Iwata around the 3DS and Wii U launch.

Or... Nintendo never becomes relevant again and keeps repeating these mistakes for another 10 years until it dies.

Whether Iwata resigns or is fire or stays put, it's unlikley that Nintendo will repeat its current performance the next time it's time for them to swing for the fences. What exactly do people *expect* to happen?

 

[Porcile]

There won't be a 3d Mario and donkey long according to who?

Well, I'm going by past history that's said there hasn't been a 3D Mario Platformer or mainline Donkey Kong (other than the 2D DKC's nearly 20 years ago) released on the same console 2 years in a row. You know, actual precedent which has been established since Nintendo's modern day inception.

 

[gamergirly]

Well, I'm going by past history that's said there hasn't been a 3D Mario Platformer or mainline Donkey Kong (other than the 2D DKC's nearly 20 years ago) released on the same console 2 years in a row. You know, actual precedent which has been established since Nintendo's modern day inception.

Exactly. They've stated they have other unannounced titles that they will reveal. Plus Zelda U, etc. Would make sense to have those titles again

 

[MisterHero]

Mr. Iwata underestimates the power of internet petitions.

 

[bachikarn]

Does anyone know how Nintendo's actual executive structures work? From a CVS article on how the Wii was invented:

But Yamauchi's departure, officially announced a full year later, was not a straight swap. Internally, Nintendo was making radical changes to its management structure. A board of six executives was appointed to take mutual control of all operations.

Atsushi Asada stepped in as new chairman while a man named Satoru Iwata was appointed president. Shigeru Miyamoto was also named one of the six.
In 2002 both Shigeru Miyamoto and Satoru Iwata (background) officially joined the revised Nintendo board

This was more than a game of musical chairs; Command within Nintendo's Kyoto headquarters was no longer reserved for a single dictator but spread across a committee of its most senior staff. The biggest decisions would now be explored from six different perspectives, in theory allowing more radical ideas to be considered.

I wonder if it's still like that. If so, Iwata is probably shouldn't be blame, but that is much worse IMO. If it really was just Iwata, replacing him could actually bring out a much needed change to their philosophy. If instead there is a systemic issue with Nintendo, I wouldn't expect there to be much change even if they replaced him.

 

[w1gglyjones]

Does anyone know how Nintendo's actual executive structures work? From a CVS article on how the Wii was invented:

I curious to hear the the expectations of the critics are for Nintendo's business if Nintendo doesn't start doing the things they are suggesting.

 

[Tripon]

I find this most shocking about the Wii U support. The Japanese support is in many ways worse than the western support. With the western support you at least have new franchises or new releases from established franchises. But with the Japanese Wii U support so far the biggest releases are ports of old games like Monster Hunter, Yakuza or Dragon Quest. They've recently secured some Sonic exclusives, but that's it as far as new major support from a Japanese developer.

What? Monster Hunter 4 is coming out exclusively on the 3DS this summer, and DQ 10 was on the Wii, and Wii U. Its only coming out on PC after a year it's been on the Wii. And I guarantee you, DQ won't show up on the PS3/PS4/Vita, or XBox 360/One anytime soon.

Yakuza 1 and 2 is the only port with no new installment coming on a Nintendo console.

 

[DragonSworne]

Well, I'm going by past history that's said there hasn't been a 3D Mario Platformer or mainline Donkey Kong (other than the 2D DKC's nearly 20 years ago) released on the same console 2 years in a row. You know, actual precedent which has been established since Nintendo's modern day inception.

Same console? Maybe not, but Nintendo has released 3D Marios one year after the other before on the 3DS and Wii; Mario 3D Land and Mario Galaxy 2.

If you include 2D platformers, this year Nintendo will have released 9 Mario platformers in the last 8 years... To think there isn't another 3D or 2D Mario platform next year is naive.

 

[Tookay]

Nope. We've had these topics before during the N64, GCN, DS, Wii era's. Nothings changed.

These kinds of posts are usually my least favorite in any Nintendo thread, because they literally contribution nothing to the discussion.

Yes, we know that Nintendo has survived in the past. What you're missing is how this situation is quite a bit more dire now than it was in the past.

-The 3DS is doing great in Japan but only okay globally, due to mobile market's intrusion.

-The Wii U is posed to make the Gamecube look good.

-Both of these pillars (one performing only okay and the other doing miserably) is completely unlike previous gens where the handheld sector was reliably there both domestically and internationally to make up for whatever problems there were in the console space.

-Further, the fact that they're making 3D titles for the 3DS and expensive HD titles for a struggling system tests their teams like never before, and, while expansion has started, it was not prepared for enough in advance.

-They wasted their advantage of 6-7 years to get prepared for HD and seemed completely caught off-guard in a way that suggested a weird unawareness of what was happening in the rest of the market during the same period.

-Their "hook"/"gimmick" twice in a row has yielded no discernible market reaction. Both 3D in the 3DS and the tablet touchscreen on the Wii U have not justified their initial valuation. And, the problem with the WIi U's tablet is that it's expensive to make, putting them in a tough situation in terms of price cutting.

-Not to mention, their philosophy behind both of these "hooks" seems largely confused in comparison with their previous succcesses, especially the Wii U's. The touchscreen controller is alienating in its design/uses and completely at odds with the simple-to-understand mechanics of a motion control wand.

-Their online infrastructure (in both functionality and design) is still years behind everybody else, when connectivity is probably the most important thing to the market right now. (And before anyone comments "thank God Nintendo still focuses on single-player games and local multipIayer," let me just say that I love both of those too; however, I realize that it'd probably be good business sense to delve into full-fledged online play for their marquee titles.)

-They've been effectively shunned by the big western AAA third-parties, even losing out on a token shovelware game or two. Even the test games have dried up. They've had bad third-party support before, but this is in another league. The genres that left with them - ones that appeal to the current core market - are not being replenished.

-Further (and less importantly, but not as much as you may think) you can sense the enthusiast press' coverage of Nintendo wane in a way that is relegating Nintendo to some corner in gamers' minds, instead of a staple that it is (and should be). Their losing the long-term battle for hearts and minds in a significant way.

 

[Nekofrog]

Nope. We've had these topics before during the N64, GCN, DS, Wii era's. Nothings changed.

Anyone paying even one iota of attention will see that things have changed.

A lot.

 

[Porcile]

Same console? Maybe not, but Nintendo has released 3D Marios one year after the other before on the 3DS and Wii; Mario 3D Land and Mario Galxy 2.

If you include 2D platformers, this year Nintendo will have released 9 Mario platformers in the last 8 years... To think there isn't another 3D or 2D Mario platform next year is naive.

So handhelds and consoles are the same thing now? A game for 3DS will make people buy Wii U's? Bit of a stretch...

There may well be a 2D Mario for Wii U next year. Even that would be without precedent. The gap between NSMBW and NSMBWU was three years.

The 2D games suitably different from 3D that they can't really be considered part of the same genre or even the same series. They don't even appeal to the same audience.

Regardless, there are going to be new games which we don't know about.

 

[Pie and Beans]

The "but i fort yoo said Nintendo was doomedied?" counter argument is about the stupidest one you can make in a thread specifically targeting and discussing the individuals many feel are doing the 'still alive' company a disservice.

You may as well be bleating and throwing up out of your nostrils really with that kind of offering.

 

[royalan]

These kinds of posts are usually my least favorite in any Nintendo thread, because they literally contribution nothing to the discussion.

Yes, we know that Nintendo has survived in the past. What you're missing is how this situation is quite a bit more dire now than it was in the past.

-The 3DS is doing great in Japan but only okay globally, due to mobile market's intrusion.

-The Wii U is posed to make the Gamecube look good.

-Both of these pillars (one performing only okay and the other doing miserably) is completely unlike previous gens where the handheld sector was reliably there both domestically and internationally to make up for whatever problems there were in the console space.

-Further, the fact that they're making 3D titles for the 3DS and expensive HD titles for a struggling system tests their teams like never before, and, while expansion has started, it was not prepared for enough in advance.

-They wasted their advantage of 6-7 years to get prepared for HD and seemed completely caught off-guard in a way that suggested a weird unawareness of what was happening in the rest of the market during the same period.

-Their "hook"/"gimmick" twice in a row has yielded no discernible market reaction. Both 3D and the tablet touchscreen did not explode their respective system's popularity in the way the valuation of each console expected. And, the problem with the WIi U's tablet is that it's expensive to make, putting them in a tough situation in terms of price cutting.

-Their online infrastructure (in both functionality and design) is still years behind everybody else, when connectivity is probably the most important thing to the market right now. (And before anyone comments "thank God Nintendo still focuses on single-player games and local multipIayer," let me just say that I love both of those too; however, I realize that it's good business sense to also delve into my fully-fledged online play for their marquee titles.)

-They've been effectively shunned by the big western AAA third-parties, even losing out on a token shovelware game or two. Even the test games have dried up. They've had bad third-party support before, but this is in another league. The genres - genres that appeal to the current core market - that left with them are not being replenished.

-Further (and less importantly, but not as much as you may think) you can sense the enthusiast press' coverage of Nintendo wane in a way that is relegating Nintendo to some corner in gamers' minds, instead of a staple that is (and should be). Their losing the battle for hearts and minds in a significant way.

I'd like to add:

-The home console market will soon face significant intrusion by Google and Apple, adding even more modern competitors in a sector that Nintendo has traditionally struggled to remain dominant in since the SNES.

 

[Tripon]

Same console? Maybe not, but Nintendo has released 3D Marios one year after the other before on the 3DS and Wii; Mario 3D Land and Mario Galxy 2.

If you include 2D platformers, this year Nintendo will have released 9 Mario platformers in the last 8 years... To think there isn't another 3D or 2D Mario platform next year is naive.

In 2014? Perhaps, EAD2 will have about 18 months or so to make a new game.

 

[schuelma]

The "but i fort yoo said Nintendo was doomedied?" counter argument is about the stupidest one you can make in a thread specifically targeting and discussing the individuals many feel are doing the 'still alive' company a disservice.

You may as well be bleating and throwing up out of your nostrils really with that kind of offering.

You are so clever the way you misspell an opposing argument in order to make it sound dumb.

 

[TreasureHunterG]

These kinds of posts are usually my least favorite in any Nintendo thread, because they literally contribution nothing to the discussion.

Yes, we know that Nintendo has survived in the past. What you're missing is how this situation is quite a bit more dire now than it was in the past.

-The 3DS is doing great in Japan but only okay globally, due to mobile market's intrusion.

-The Wii U is posed to make the Gamecube look good.

-Both of these pillars (one performing only okay and the other doing miserably) is completely unlike previous gens where the handheld sector was reliably there both domestically and internationally to make up for whatever problems there were in the console space.

-Further, the fact that they're making 3D titles for the 3DS and expensive HD titles for a struggling system tests their teams like never before, and, while expansion has started, it was not prepared for enough in advance.

-They wasted their advantage of 6-7 years to get prepared for HD and seemed completely caught off-guard in a way that suggested a weird unawareness of what was happening in the rest of the market during the same period.

-Their "hook"/"gimmick" twice in a row has yielded no discernible market reaction. Both 3D in the 3DS and the tablet touchscreen on the Wii U have not justified their initial valuation. And, the problem with the WIi U's tablet is that it's expensive to make, putting them in a tough situation in terms of price cutting.

-Not to mention, their philosophy behind both of these "hooks" seems largely confused in comparison with their previous succcesses, especially the Wii U's. The touchscreen controller is alienating in its design/uses and completely at odds with the simple-to-understand mechanics of a motion control wand.

-Their online infrastructure (in both functionality and design) is still years behind everybody else, when connectivity is probably the most important thing to the market right now. (And before anyone comments "thank God Nintendo still focuses on single-player games and local multipIayer," let me just say that I love both of those too; however, I realize that it'd probably be good business sense to delve into full-fledged online play for their marquee titles.)

-They've been effectively shunned by the big western AAA third-parties, even losing out on a token shovelware game or two. Even the test games have dried up. They've had bad third-party support before, but this is in another league. The genres that left with them - ones that appeal to the current core market - are not being replenished.

-Further (and less importantly, but not as much as you may think) you can sense the enthusiast press' coverage of Nintendo wane in a way that is relegating Nintendo to some corner in gamers' minds, instead of a staple that it is (and should be). Their losing the long-term battle for hearts and minds in a significant way.

 

[javac]

Nintendo's Japanese 3rd party support on 3DS is pretty good so it's not like these developers are adverse to Nintendo platforms entirely.

Sales obviously won't help Wii U all that much in this regard even if it hits 100 mill worldwide. The same happened with the Wii. We'll get some cool stuff like we did on the Wii with No more heroes, Madworld and all that snazzy stuff. We are already seeing that with platinum Games right now.

We'll get some ports and some will be good, some will be bad and some will just be spin offs.

I feel that the only way to have parity in terms of support is to have parity with hardware in regards to its competitors. And I have a feeling that wouldn't be possible with Nintendo as of now.

But that brings up the question of Gamecube. Did the marketing and colour choice really have such a detrimental effect or was the PS2 just too much of a dominant force? Would a modern day Gamecube work better today?

Just random noise I thought I'd jot down.

 

[prwxv3]

Nintendo does not have Japan locked of they can not get FF15, KH3, MGS5, ect. So the, ignoring the west has actually effected some of the big Japanese releases too.

 

[schuelma]

Nintendo does not have Japan locked of they can not get FF15, KH3, MGS5, ect. So the, ignoring the west has actually effected some of the big Japanese releases too.

Right. Not to mention, Wii U isn't even getting the mid tier stuff announced for it from Japan. if Iwata's plan is to build off Japan, that plan isn't going very well.

 

[miksar]

Iwata is to blame for several business problems (3DS launching at $250, terrible Wii U marketing, etc.), but the biggest problem Nintendo faces in the new generation so far is their inability to create absolutely must-have software for larger audiences aside from Animal Crossing: New Leaf. I don't think Iwata is solely to blame for lackluster creative output. Nintendo clearly has a lot of talent, but it seems as if its efforts are not used as they should be, so I'm more inclined to blame EAD managers for that. Or probably you just can't have a new Tetris/Nintendogs/Wii Sports every five years, no matter how much talent you have.

 

[lwilliams3]

These kinds of posts are usually my least favorite in any Nintendo thread, because they literally contribution nothing to the discussion.

Yes, we know that Nintendo has survived in the past. What you're missing is how this situation is quite a bit more dire now than it was in the past.

-The 3DS is doing great in Japan but only okay globally, due to mobile market's intrusion.

-The Wii U is posed to make the Gamecube look good.

-Both of these pillars (one performing only okay and the other doing miserably) is completely unlike previous gens where the handheld sector was reliably there both domestically and internationally to make up for whatever problems there were in the console space.

-Further, the fact that they're making 3D titles for the 3DS and expensive HD titles for a struggling system tests their teams like never before, and, while expansion has started, it was not prepared for enough in advance.

-They wasted their advantage of 6-7 years to get prepared for HD and seemed completely caught off-guard in a way that suggested a weird unawareness of what was happening in the rest of the market during the same period.

-Their "hook"/"gimmick" twice in a row has yielded no discernible market reaction. Both 3D in the 3DS and the tablet touchscreen on the Wii U have not justified their initial valuation. And, the problem with the WIi U's tablet is that it's expensive to make, putting them in a tough situation in terms of price cutting.

-Not to mention, their philosophy behind both of these "hooks" seems largely confused in comparison with their previous succcesses, especially the Wii U's. The touchscreen controller is alienating in its design/uses and completely at odds with the simple-to-understand mechanics of a motion control wand.

-Their online infrastructure (in both functionality and design) is still years behind everybody else, when connectivity is probably the most important thing to the market right now. (And before anyone comments "thank God Nintendo still focuses on single-player games and local multipIayer," let me just say that I love both of those too; however, I realize that it'd probably be good business sense to delve into full-fledged online play for their marquee titles.)

-They've been effectively shunned by the big western AAA third-parties, even losing out on a token shovelware game or two. Even the test games have dried up. They've had bad third-party support before, but this is in another league. The genres that left with them - ones that appeal to the current core market - are not being replenished.

-Further (and less importantly, but not as much as you may think) you can sense the enthusiast press' coverage of Nintendo wane in a way that is relegating Nintendo to some corner in gamers' minds, instead of a staple that is (and should be). Their losing the battle for hearts and minds in a significant way.

I'd like to add:

-The home console market will soon face significant intrusion by Google and Apple, adding even more modern competitors in a sector that Nintendo has traditionally struggled to remain dominant in since the SNES.

Hmm, I think that this list should be reviewed in 6 months. A lot on the list is listing issues that has affected Nintendo up to this point (HD development issues, positive press coverage, nearly anything 3DS related), but may change for the better by the end of the year.

It should be noted that even though it will be a challenge for Nintendo to reach its profit goal, but the company posting profits at all is growth and its not like the company is anywhere close to broke.

As for Royalan's statement, it will be interesting to see how all console makers will deal with those possibilities.

 

[RobertC]

You may not have said it, but a lot wanted to believe

 

[TreasureHunterG]

Iwata is to blame for several business problems (3DS launching at $250, terrible Wii U marketing, etc.), but the biggest problem Nintendo faces in the new generation so far is their inability to create absolutely must-have software for larger audiences aside from Animal Crossing: New Leaf. I don't think Iwata is solely to blame for lackluster creative output. Nintendo clearly has a lot of talent, but it seems as if its efforts are not used as they should be, so I'm more inclined to blame EAD managers for that. Or probably you just can't have a new Tetris/Nintendogs/Wii Sports every five years, no matter how much talent you have.

According to Shikamaru Ninja, Miyamoto has full control over EAD and most of Nintendo's productions. I guess he's the one you're talking about.

 

[prwxv3]

Right. Not to mention, Wii U isn't even getting the mid tier stuff announced for it from Japan. if Iwata's plan is to build off Japan, that plan isn't going very well.

He probably thought the amazing 3DS support would be replicated for WiiU. Which is completely idiotic and reminds me of what Sony expected with the PSP and Vita.

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

According to Shikamaru Ninja, Miyamoto has full control over EAD and most of Nintendo's productions. I guess he's the one you're talking about.

More like according to Nintendo. He is the General Manager of Entertainment Analysis & Development Division. He is the boss.

Then! He is also a Directing Manager in the Board of Directors. Making top level executive decisions on everything.

 

[miksar]

According to Shikamaru Ninja, Miyamoto has full control over EAD and most of Nintendo's productions. I guess he's the one you're talking about.

Well I'm not as well versed in Nintendo's corporate structure as he is, so if it so, then yes, I'm talking about Miyamoto. It seems to me that though Miyamoto still has his touch, he is too conservative. As I see it, he wasn't involved that much in Nintendo's most recent big successes like Wii Sports, Animal Crossing, Nintendogs. It would be interesting to see what would happen to Nintendo's output if developers like Eguchi, Sakurai and some others were given more influence in the company.

 

[royalan]

More like according to Nintendo. He is the General Manager of Entertainment Analysis & Development Division. He is the boss.

Then! He is also a Directing Manager in the Board of Directors. Making top level executive decisions on everything.

Ready about the changes made to the board when Yamauchi stepped down, it really does seem like Nintendo was restructured into a Boys Club of sorts.

 

[javac]

According to Shikamaru Ninja, Miyamoto has full control over EAD and most of Nintendo's productions. I guess he's the one you're talking about.

Miyamoto is obviously a very very very talented man. He's done a shit load of good stuff for the industry and that's putting it more than lightly.

Even today it's obvious he has a lot of talent and creativity. Pikmin 3 looks to be fabulous. But I do feel he should step back a bit. It would be rude to just throw him into a pile of nothing and not just because that's mean... because it is. But also because of the fact that the man still has things to bring to the table. He should just allow the other teams to have a bit more creativity and breathing room.

I'm sure we'll still get the same IP and franchises but I'd hope we'd get some fresh ideas. Hell maybe some of that will come from miyamoto himself once he removes the shackles of the old IP and works on new and even smaller stuff on eShop.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

If Nintendo jumped to online years ago with the DS, created a decent ecosystem of digital games where indies and their 1st efforts where there in day 1. Nurturing better prices and deals and slowly abandoning their idea of premium prices on portables, right now they would be riding in the dollar.

Instead they are just the impotent colossus seeing how smartphone gaming is climbing slowly but inevitably to strike it's sword and killing him.

Their backwards decisions regarding online and irrational fear of value in portable experiences is destroying the company in the long term, whatever right choices they did years ago. The worst is as much the market and the competition is hitting them in the head with these obvious problems they still don't get it.

 

[Vermillion]

More like according to Nintendo. He is the General Manager of Entertainment Analysis & Development Division. He is the boss.

Then! He is also a Directing Manager in the Board of Directors. Making top level executive decisions on everything.

It seems then, that he shouldn't be that powerful. Not saying he doesn't still make brilliant games, but he doesn't seem like he should be making executive decisions of any kind (reminds me of how Sid Meier has no taste for any of the boardroom stuff - just making fun games - shoutout, Schreier).