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New Killzone: Shadow Fall gameplay

Vire said:
Also, this may seem minor, but I really fucking hate what they did with the HUD overlay for crosshairs:





Why did they make it more gamey/part of the HUD UI rather than simply just the scope itself is the crosshair?

Maybe it's just that one gun, but I still really really don't like it.

That and it does the stupid X shit within the circle when you hit someone. Thanks Call of Duty!
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Hey, as someone who played Planetside 2, I like those scopes. Fuck having metal shit blocking my face when I aim.
 
Vire said:
Gun sounds and death animations are so much better than SF...

:/
Click to expand...
Even the art style looks so much better,that is where Killzone stood out and that is where I hoped the series would go forward come PS4 but they changed it.
 
Chamber said:
It's such a night and day difference too between these shitty youtube videos and the uncompressed stuff we're lucky to get Gamersyde. I wish Sony and MS would wake up on this.
Click to expand...

Well Sony usually releases their videos on both youtube and as downloads for the press. We'll see if that's the case for this one.
As for MS, that's a very different story, sadly.
 
Blimblim said:
Well Sony usually releases their videos on both youtube and as downloads for the press. We'll see if that's the case for this one.
As for MS, that's a very different story, sadly.
Click to expand...

I really hope you guys get footage Blimblim. I swear my game video folders is exclusively filled with stuff from gamersyde.
 
TheCloser said:
I would really be offended by criticisms if killzone was near and dear to my heart but it's not. What annoys me is the complaining going on in almost all threads about next gen games. Devs are working extremely hard(some without finalized hardware) to bring us the best they can for launch games, then we have people coming with no knowledge in game development stating complaints as if they were fact. I have no problems with people complaining once the games have been completed but at this point in time the games are not yet done. It it's completely illogical to judge games until they are and they're finished state. if you go into the other threads, you will see people making the same type of complaints.
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That makes no sense whatsoever. Part of the reason I'm reluctant to buy this game is because I've already bought one of their products and had a lot of complaints about it. They completely ignored most of the fans during development of KZ3 and ended up with a game that got a worse reception. Everybody said just improve the story and instead they gave us crud. If the game gets mediocre reviews and sells poorly they have no-one to blame but themselves. Devs should be begging for feedback during development.
 
Kenshin001 said:
That makes no sense whatsoever. Part of the reason I'm reluctant to buy this game is because I've already bought one of their products and had a lot of complaints about it. They completely ignored most of the fans during development of KZ3 and ended up with a game that got a worse reception. Everybody said just improve the story and instead they gave us crud. If the game gets mediocre reviews and sells poorly they have no-one to blame but themselves. Devs should be begging for feedback during development.
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Yea no, if devs listened to all the feedback then the game will just turn into COD. There is certainly a time to take feedback but this is not the time. The game is not even complete. Why would anyone tweak a game based on fan feedback from people who haven't played the game.
 
velociraptor said:
Yes. Devs such as DICE have years of PC (x86) programming experience, unlike Sony's devs..

I do think first party games will eventually blow us away, but not now - these are launch titles after all.
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Sure, but i don't think it is that simple.

The jaguar is relatively underpowered compared to a gaming PC CPU and has more cores (plus quit a few PC games aren't that multi-core optimised anyway). So I don't think it's that simple to get the most out of it from a PC centric view. Might be easy to quickly bring across cross gen stuff initially though.

And Sony first party devs should be more familiar with multi threaded stuff and the concept of compute. But for that I expect to wait until 2nd gen games when they have had time to work with the system.
 
Vire said:
Killzone 3 used 10K models. :)
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Im sure Nate was around 20k. And David Cage at the PS4 unviel said the main character in Beyond is made up of 30k on the PS3.

I guess the developers haven't received the final dev kits for the PS4. If KZ is to be Sony's showcase it certainly doesn't look better than what EA has shown with BF4 on Xbone.
 
Endo Punk said:
Im sure Nate was around 20k. And David Cage at the PS4 unviel said the main character iin Beyond is made up of 30k.

I guess the developers haven't received the final dev kits for the PS4.
Click to expand...

That's one character. A main character at that, in a third person game.

I don't know the exact number of poly's for random goons in Uncharted but I guarantee it was under 10K.

With the PS4, every model now should have 40K+ Polygons, with main character's pushing into 70k. Polygon's aren't everything by the way, lighting makes much more of a difference than polygons do most of the time.

models.jpg.jpg


A comparison of a PS4 40,000 polygon model Helghast on the left up against his 10,000 polygon PS3 counterpart on the right. The comparison is somewhat skewed as the PS3 model is rendered in the PS4 engine, with all the lighting and materials advantages it offers
Click to expand...

40K Model on Left and 10K model on Right. This pretty much shows that it's more wise to invest in expensive lighting techniques rather than having a 100K polygon character.
 
Vire said:
That's one character. A main character at that, in a third person game.

I don't know the exact number of poly's for random goons in Uncharted but I guarantee it was under 10K.

With the PS4, every model now should have 40K+ Polygons, with main character's pushing into 70k.

Polygon's aren't everything by the way, lighting makes much more of a difference than polygons do most of the time.
Click to expand...

Cool, thanks and Im aware lighting adds a lot more :) I can't wait until SSM and ND are ready to blow our socks off.
 
thuway said:
I wonder if the move to x86 created frustrations.

PS3 software (KZ 2 & 3) was optimized maximally to run on Cell at near 100% efficiency. All those years spent learning, figuring out tricks, and finding uses for the SPU's have all but went to waste in the face of straight forward stream lined work flow.

Some of the earlier posts mentioned how lack of destructability (trees should be breaking down left and right), precanned animations (the soul of those animations are from previous titles), and the blood spurts are neutered for something worthy of a PlayStation 4 title.

It is a daunting task to create a launch title, but the ante and expectation for Sony's first party is quite high. The timing of Killzone: Shadow Fall could help bring Killzone into the mainstream. I hope the final product makes our eye's blister, but the footage shown here doesn't inspire confidence.
Click to expand...

In a way it's not that different. PS3 developers had to learn how to spread out their work through the PPU + SPUs before, now they can take those learnings and apply them to have the game taking advantage of several identical cores from day one.
The GPU is a completely different beast of course, that will take some time to fully exploit.
 
Vire said:
40K Model on Left and 10K model on Right. This pretty much shows that it's more wise to invest in expensive lighting techniques rather than having a 100K polygon character.
Click to expand...

QFT. I tell the same thing to people who argue 4XMSAA versus 2XMSAA + FXAA. I would rather Guerilla use the power under the hood to innovate in lighting, tesselation, AF, AO, and high resolution shadow maps.

High resolution shadow maps alone will make jaws drop.
 
Raymo said:
I explained in a later post above. Aren't there benefits to being a first party developer in a console launch? At the very least, they probably have had more time with the dev kits. I didn't mean to say they are better programmers in general. I meant that I would think they have an advantage since it is new hardware and I'm assuming they had early access.
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Sorry I missed that. Not anything significant to the trade offs or how good the art is. I know it's counterintuitive, but there are more variables at play which is why practically technical achievements games like Massive Entertainment's The Division or GTA V exist. It doesn't really matter when in the cycle for a 3rd party game to be competitive or superior.
 
thuway said:
QFT. I tell the same thing to people who argue 4XMSAA versus 2XMSAA + FXAA. I would rather Guerilla use the power under the hood to innovate in lighting, tesselation, AF, AO, and high resolution shadow maps.

High resolution shadow maps alone will make jaws drop.
Click to expand...

Current-gen self shadowing is very bad due to low resolution shadow maps. It can really ruin a cutscenes for eg.
 
The lack of destructability and environment interactiveness is pretty bad.

You would expect that first party games that aren't constrained by last gen consoles would look significantly better than cross gen games.
 
Sid said:
While this looks good I wish the entire game was set on a large map which looks like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bn5eCCA9ZjA

With all that next gen glory.BTW this demo looked better than the final game IMO.
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Agree with you that it looked better than final game.

Killzone 3 and SF maybe have better tech but somehow i still find Killzone 2 best visually. It just had that CG look to it. It is also game that does gritty perfect.
 
sp3000 said:
The lack of destructability and environment interactiveness is pretty bad.

You would expect that first party games that aren't constrained by last gen consoles would look significantly better than cross gen games.
Click to expand...

launchtitlez gunna launchtitlez?

Incomplete devkits, premature launch dates, and not enough developer time will reduce the scope of vision significantly. The team at Guerilla is incredibly talented, but they need to step it up because this game could do more harm than good. I would really hope this game doesn't fall victim to becoming the Haze of the PS4.
 
The more I see of Killzone SF, the less I want it. I was hoping it to be much better. Killzone 2 felt incredible, the way soldiers reacted to your shooting, the gritty feeling. Even the AI seem dumber in SF. I don't like the wall hack for example. Reduces the tension. At least the wall hack looks better than in TLOU (haven't played it yet, but will, but from videos, the clear "outline"s of enemies is very immersion breaking, they could at least look like blurry and jumpy blobs (simulating non-exact information), why did they have to go with clear outlines, I dunno. Glad it can be turned off, but I'm also a chicken when it comes to horror elements.)
 
thuway said:
launchtitlez gunna launchtitlez?

Incomplete devkits, premature launch dates, and not enough developer time will reduce the scope of vision significantly. The team at Guerilla is incredibly talented, but they need to step it up because this game could do more harm than good. I would really hope this game doesn't fall victim to becoming the Haze of the PS4.
Click to expand...

I don't see how this is an excuse when BF4 and all the other launch titles are going up against similar things and also have to deal with last gen consoles.

Look at a game like Halo which was a launch title for Xbox. Bungie was working with a totally new architecture as well and yet the game was still tremendous in scope and was doing stuff that had not been done in any other game. Sony needs a game with that sort of technical and creative ambition. Killzone 2 was close to that but ever since then nothing particularly amazing has happened with this franchise. Killzone 3 was mediocre and everything that has been shown for this game looks like a graphically nicer version of KZ3.
 
I made this post previously. Here it is again:

Guys. Lets be honest.

I am a hardcore Killzone fan, and will buy this day 1 regardless of what the MP is like.

Now. Lets ask ourselves. Why is Halo and Gears of War so popular? Why does the MP portion have a whole dedicated MLG circuit, where the game is taken very seriously, and there is huge cash payouts?

It's because it has very intimate, team based gameplay. Any more than 4 players on a side would be too chaotic.

Also, another thing. I really am not a fan of the class system in both Killzone 2 and 3. I feel it is a not so great ripoff of Team Forretress 2.

I would rather have it more like halo and gears; give me honest feedback and your opinions;

If you are ISA, you spawn with m82 rifle. If you are Helghast, you spawn with Sta 52 rifle. Power weapons such as sniper, shotgun, rocket launcher, flamethrower, eletric gun and the gun that pins enemies to walls are all spread fairly in parts of the map and create power struggles just like how people fight over the sniper in Halo and how people fight over boomshot in Gears, etc.

Make the basic DEDICATED MATCHMAKING game modes like TDM, a no respawn search and destroy mode, capture the speaker (CTF)hold down the speakers (domination) and maybe a team leader/VIP and voila.

Forget that rediculous 32 player Warzone. It is a cluster mess, and the worst part? When a side reaches 4 game type wins, the game keeps on going. Why is this? The game should end because it is best of 7.

You have an MLG game, that will sell because it really is the only shining gem out the gate for Ps4s launch.

Oh yea. The best part?

It has LEGS. It won't be like Killzone 3, or majority of other shooters that aren't Call of Duty, where majority of people play till they max out their rank, and then drop it.

This type of multiplayer could be played for years. This COULD go MLG.
 
Game is not nearly as impressive as the initial reveal. I guess seeing stuff like The Division has raised the bar especially if this is 30 fps
 
Apeopleman said:
I made this post previously. Here it is again:

Guys. Lets be honest.

I am a hardcore Killzone fan, and will buy this day 1 regardless of what the MP is like.

Now. Lets ask ourselves. Why is Halo and Gears of War so popular? Why does the MP portion have a whole dedicated MLG circuit, where the game is taken very seriously, and there is huge cash payouts?

It's because it has very intimate, team based gameplay. Any more than 4 players on a side would be too chaotic.

Also, another thing. I really am not a fan of the class system in both Killzone 2 and 3. I feel it is a not so great ripoff of Team Forretress 2.

I would rather have it more like halo and gears; give me honest feedback and your opinions;

If you are ISA, you spawn with m82 rifle. If you are Helghast, you spawn with Sta 52 rifle. Power weapons such as sniper, shotgun, rocket launcher, flamethrower, eletric gun and the gun that pins enemies to walls are all spread fairly in parts of the map and create power struggles just like how people fight over the sniper in Halo and how people fight over boomshot in Gears, etc.

Make the basic DEDICATED MATCHMAKING game modes like TDM, a no respawn search and destroy mode, capture the speaker (CTF)hold down the speakers (domination) and maybe a team leader/VIP and voila.

Forget that rediculous 32 player Warzone. It is a cluster mess, and the worst part? When a side reaches 4 game type wins, the game keeps on going. Why is this? The game should end because it is best of 7.

You have an MLG game, that will sell because it really is the only shining gem out the gate for Ps4s launch.

Oh yea. The best part?

It has LEGS. It won't be like Killzone 3, or majority of other shooters that aren't Call of Duty, where majority of people play till they max out their rank, and then drop it.

This type of multiplayer could be played for years. This COULD go MLG.
Click to expand...

No offense, but uhh, yeah, fuck that......

When I play the multiplayer, I want it to feel like I'm in a epic warzone with multiple soldiers (the same vibe the SP gives) not downsized like the franchises you described.
Killzone should lean more towards Battlefield Multiplayer wise, just with smaller players counts (24 to 32 is fine depending on level design) and more focus on infantry rather than vehicles to keep it more competitive. Not everything needs to be reduced to small player counts. I think just changing some game mechanics (which have been suggested since the release of KZ2) can stop how much of a clusterfuck some matches became. Just my opinion.
 
Vire said:
40K Model on Left and 10K model on Right. This pretty much shows that it's more wise to invest in expensive lighting techniques rather than having a 100K polygon character.
Click to expand...

True. There's almost no visible difference in terms of polycount from that distance. Crazy.
 
Wow that was boring. I'm not sure if it's just Killzone's gameplay or my fatigue of first-person shooters that is making me rethink getting this game at launch.
 
LEGGZZZZ said:
No offense, but uhh, yeah, fuck that......

When I play the multiplayer, I want it to feel like I'm in a epic warzone with multiple soldiers (the same vibe the SP gives) not downsized like the franchises you described.
Killzone should lean more towards Battlefield Multiplayer wise, just with smaller players counts (24 to 32 is fine depending on level design) and more focus on infantry rather than vehicles to keep it more competitive. Not everything needs to be reduced to small player counts. I think just changing some game mechanics (which have been suggested since the release of KZ2) can stop how much of a clusterfuck some matches became. Just my opinion.
Click to expand...

Pyrrus Rise for the win!.
 
sp3000 said:
I don't see how this is an excuse when BF4 and all the other launch titles are going up against similar things and also have to deal with last gen consoles.

Look at a game like Halo which was a launch title for Xbox. Bungie was working with a totally new architecture as well and yet the game was still tremendous in scope and was doing stuff that had not been done in any other game. Sony needs a game with that sort of technical and creative ambition. Killzone 2 was close to that but ever since then nothing particularly amazing has happened with this franchise. Killzone 3 was mediocre and everything that has been shown for this game looks like a graphically nicer version of KZ3.
Click to expand...

BF4 wa- *reads the rest of your post* never mind carry on

Apeopleman said:
I made this post previously. Here it is again: Guys. Lets be honest. I am a hardcore Killzone fan, and will buy this day 1 regardless of what the MP is like. Now. Lets ask ourselves. Why is Halo and Gears of War so popular? Why does the MP portion have a whole dedicated MLG circuit, where the game is taken very seriously, and there is huge cash payouts? It's because it has very intimate, team based gameplay. Any more than 4 players on a side would be too chaotic. Also, another thing. I really am not a fan of the class system in both Killzone 2 and 3. I feel it is a not so great ripoff of Team Forretress 2. I would rather have it more like halo and gears; give me honest feedback and your opinions; If you are ISA, you spawn with m82 rifle. If you are Helghast, you spawn with Sta 52 rifle. Power weapons such as sniper, shotgun, rocket launcher, flamethrower, eletric gun and the gun that pins enemies to walls are all spread fairly in parts of the map and create power struggles just like how people fight over the sniper in Halo and how people fight over boomshot in Gears, etc. Make the basic DEDICATED MATCHMAKING game modes like TDM, a no respawn search and destroy mode, capture the speaker (CTF)hold down the speakers (domination) and maybe a team leader/VIP and voila. Forget that rediculous 32 player Warzone. It is a cluster mess, and the worst part? When a side reaches 4 game type wins, the game keeps on going. Why is this? The game should end because it is best of 7. You have an MLG game, that will sell because it really is the only shining gem out the gate for Ps4s launch. Oh yea. The best part? It has LEGS. It won't be like Killzone 3, or majority of other shooters that aren't Call of Duty, where majority of people play till they max out their rank, and then drop it. This type of multiplayer could be played for years. This COULD go MLG.
Click to expand...

111.gif


MLG..........FUCK MLG
 
RoboPlato said:
If it's a CPU issue then it'll likely be solved before launch. They're still running audio and particles on the CPU on these devkits but they'll be on the dedicated audio chip and GPU in the final build. They also may have access to another CPU core.
Click to expand...

Well, the difference in cpu process to avoid all the lod and popping issues in that video is not a 12~15%, but a 100% increase. I guess it's more reasonable to expect that several optimizations are still pending in the code. Anyway, agressive lod was already visible in the first reveal but nobody complained.
 
How the hell do people come to the conclusion that the game either looks awesome or not impressive from this terrible fucking video? The compression makes everything look like shit, I'm really starting to hate this new trend where everyone posts youtube videos including companies.
 
Flatline said:
How the hell do people come to the conclusion that the game either looks awesome or not impressive from this terrible fucking video? The compression makes everything look like shit, I'm really starting to hate this new trend where everyone posts youtube videos including companies.
Click to expand...
I often wonder how he fuck these videos get so compressed. Sure 1080p is just an aspect ratio, but it's expected to come with a certain fidelity.
We might as well just stretch out a 480p video to full screen.

Surely even youtube has better quality compressed 1080p vids??

But good that this same level has been shown at way better fidelity. We also know it's an early build.
 
Flatline said:
How the hell do people come to the conclusion that the game either looks awesome or not impressive from this terrible fucking video? The compression makes everything look like shit, I'm really starting to hate this new trend where everyone posts youtube videos including companies.
Click to expand...

Yeah definitely companies will have to find a way to show the iq in their game.
 
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