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Let's talk about The Order:1886 characters models....

godhandiscen said:
Do you have tessellation disabled? I thought videogames were past this on high end machines. The contour of that dude's head is almost as bad as the one in the marines in Halo 3. Also, the texture in the suit look like garbage up close.
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lol Ice cold considering Halo 3 (and ODST) probably no doubt have the worst character heads and faces this gen.
 
Raging Spaniard said:
As far as next-gen, it really, really depends. Nathans character, as pointed out, its 40k but thats not the production model used in zbrush, that one is millions of polygons! Diminishing returns with polycount is definitely a thing, youll notice the increase from 5k to 10k, and from 10k to 40k, but from 40k to a million? Not that noticeable.
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Are you sure ? ?__?

one milion polygons character
image_the_dark_sorcerer-22313-2753_0008.jpg


image_the_dark_sorcerer-22313-2753_0012.jpg



40000 polygons character
image_uncharted_3_drake_s_deception-16102-2182_0003.jpg


image_uncharted_3_drake_s_deception-16102-2182_0004.jpg


If these are diminishing returns in this gen that is arriving, i'm happy! O_O
 
Man after seeing those uncharted images, I can't stop imagining how awesome it would look on PC with High-Res textures at 1080p with AA & AF etc.

Hopefully the PS4 HD Remake will do something about this.
 
luca_29_bg said:
Are you sure ? ?__?

*images*

If these are diminishing returns in this gen that is arriving, i'm happy! O_O
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There will definitely be a difference between 40K and a million poly model of course. However realistically a 200K-500K model can look just as good. It's all about shaving polys without losing the border detail to a noticeable degree. I think for most games to use poly assets north of 500K in real time at 30fps we will have to go to next-next-gen. But for this generation, we will see noticeable difference in terms of roundness especially as tessellation tech matures (especially if the more attainable Silhouette tessellation becomes ready for usage asap).

Let me remind thee once again, how drastically better Drake looked going from Uncharted 1 to 3 courtesy of shader, lighting and texture improvement.

Drake in uncharted 1.

However, as it stands, an 60-100K main characters will still look absolutely phenomenal. As such the focus will shift to things like cloth animations (so articles of clothing like a long cape or shawl do not look blocky while transitioning from shape to another or in general mitigation of clipping between articles of clothing depending upon the fold).
 
i-Lo said:
There will definitely be a difference between 40K and a million poly model of course. However realistically a 200K-500K model can look just as good. It's all about shaving polys without losing the border detail to a noticeable degree. I think for most games to use poly assets north of 500K in real time at 30fps we will have to go to next-next-gen. But for this generation, we will see noticeable difference in terms of roundness especially as tessellation tech matures (especially if the more attainable Silhouette tessellation becomes ready for usage asap).

Let me remind thee once again, how drastically better Drake looked going from Uncharted 1 to 3 courtesy of shader, lighting and texture improvement.

Drake in uncharted 1.

However, as it stands, an 60-100K main characters will still look absolutely phenomenal. As such the focus will shift to things like cloth animations (so articles of clothing like a long cape or shawl do not look blocky while transitioning from shape to another or in general mitigation of clipping between articles of clothing depending upon the fold).
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yes i perfectly understand what you mean. But so 100k polygons for main characters, in your opinion, will be the maximum in this generation ?
 
Dark Octave said:
Wait, PS4 is not going to be pushing a million pollys, right?
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I remember SE devs running Agnis on one GTX 680 at 60fps running a 10 million poly scene. At 30fps I think that's quite attainable for a GPU (PS4) has a theoretical poly pushing capability of 1.6B poly/sec. The PS3 for example could push well past 5 million in 30fps scene but other aspects of graphical processing would have acted as the limiting factor. It will be the same thing with PS4.
 
Dark Octave said:
Wait, PS4 is not going to be pushing a million pollys, right?
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Quantic Dream tech demo was running real time on PS4 (demonstrated by changing lighting conditions and animations dynamically), and their past two games have looked even better than the two tech demos preceding each.
 
i-Lo said:
I remember SE devs running Agnis on one GTX 680 at 60fps running a 10 million poly scene. At 30fps I think that's quite attainable for a GPU has a theoretical poly pushing capability of 1.6B poly/sec. The PS3 for example could push well past 5 million in 30fps scene but other aspects of graphical processing would have acted as the limiting factor. It will be the same thing with PS4.
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but the same demo square showed at sony conference in february, it was not the same ?
 
luca_29_bg said:
yes i perfectly understand what you mean. But so 100k polygons for main characters, in your opinion, will be the maximum in this generation ?
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This is a tricky question.

Let me present you with a quote from a different thread:

i-Lo said:
That's incredible but I think it's nigh impossible that most games that would portray a decent amount of characters on screen and good draw distance will not have their main protagonist/s be constituted by nearly a million polygons. It's a good exercise but I can't see it happening in regular games until we reach next-next-gen.

I am calling it now: For 30fps games, main characters will most likely be capped at 200K poly with most games (third parties) models ranging from 80-150K.

The one exception is their own products (here I'm talking about Quantic Dream) since their games don't function most normal ones do. So the lack of certain computationally heavy systems means more resources would be available toward visuals. And QD have always emphasized on character models more than anything in their games.
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luca_29_bg said:
but the same demo square showed at sony conference in february, it was not the same ?
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Truth be told. The details about that was hazy. And they did say that it's running on PS4 but I have my doubts. The problem is that (iirc) not even FFXV is using Luminous engine on which Agni was constructed.
 
i-Lo said:
This is a tricky question.

Let me present you with a quote from a different thread:





Truth be told. The details about that was hazy. And they did say that it's running on PS4 but I have my doubts. The problem is that (iirc) not even FFXV is using Luminous engine on which Agni was constructed.
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ok thanks for the explanation, final fantasy xv don't touch agnis demo in a kilometer or more....:P
 
kazebyaka said:
no more than 150k polys, i can tell you that because i know from the guy who worked on multiple next gen games
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Yeah thats what i think, 50k to 150k depending on what kind of game it is and what framerate etc. You probably wouldn't need anymore to be fair, i bet people would struggle to see a difference between 150k characters and 250k characters.
 
Creaking said:
Quantic Dream tech demo was running real time on PS4 (demonstrated by changing lighting conditions and animations dynamically), and their past two games have looked even better than the two tech demos preceding each.
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Oh wow, I hoped but I didn't know for sure it was real. That's amazing if we will be playing characters that look like that someday soon.
 
Dark Octave said:
Oh wow, I hoped but I didn't know for sure it was real. That's amazing if we will be playing characters that look like that someday soon.
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with a game in smaller environments it should be doable. I think an remake of the first resident evil....oh my God... O________________________O
 
luca_29_bg said:
with a game in smaller environments it should be doable. I think an remake of the first resident evil....oh my God... O________________________O
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I doub't it to be honest. Someone said that demo used a million polygons for that character model, now that would mean 30million polygons a second just to run that model on screen at 30fps, now add 2 or 3 other characters on screen then obviously the environment and you're probably talking about 500mil to 1 billion polygons a second for the game. I don't think we will see that next gen, i could be wrong though.
 
mercenar1e said:
i don't believe the characters in game play will consist of one million polygons..
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i was refering at the dark sorcerer demo polygonal count vs uncharted polygonal count. I don't know if this will be possible or not, but i remember to have read some days ago, on beyond3d from lay-osh, in the dark sorcerer thread (i suppose this guy works in the industry, i don't remember the correct nickname) that characters with one milion polygons are possibile in scene with a few of them, and just that. I don't know if true or not of course.
 
luca_29_bg said:
ok thanks for the explanation, final fantasy xv don't touch agnis demo in a kilometer or more....:P
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Honestly, at this point it would much less than a kilometer primarily because we only saw a controlled tech demo as opposed to actual gameplay footage (which I hope is running on PS4 hardware, prototype or otherwise) of XV. To me, it looks absolutely beautiful especially given what they did with FFXIII where the all main character models suffered greatest degradation in poly count except in their faces.

Looking here, the the fidelity is truly a generation ahead:

Noctis teleporting.gif

Noctis Battling (reminds me Cloud from Advent Children).gif
 
Ready at Dawn is a very talented bunch as anyone who has played their games can verify. I don't think anyone should doubt their ability to turn out a quality title.
 
RetroStu said:
I doub't it to be honest. Someone said that demo used a million polygons for that character model, now that would mean 30million polygons a second just to run that model on screen at 30fps, now add 2 or 3 other characters on screen then obviously the environment and you're probably talking about 500mil to 1 billion polygons a second for the game. I don't think we will see that next gen, i could be wrong though.
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these numbers are from the dark sorcerer demo or from an hypotetical complete game ?
 
luca_29_bg said:
these numbers are from the dark sorcerer demo or from an hypotetical complete game ?
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Hypothetical complete game at the standard of that demo. I mean even a 1 on 1 fighting game would struggle to have 1 million polygon fighters i'm sure. The new Killer instinct for example uses 80-90k polygon fighters although that runs at 60fps.
 
ArchedThunder said:
Wonder why it took 3 pages to post this, these are better than The Order and Crysis 3.
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better from a polygonal count perspective? Nope about the order, sorry, the complexity about the clothes of the order's characters are unmatched, too polygonal edges in the characters from killzone, but 40.000 polygons are relatively low for next gen ^^
 
Raging Spaniard said:
The key is not the polygon count when you are like, super zoomed in. Most games have different models depending on the camera position. The interesting part is how many polys characters are pushing when you are actually playing, like Nathan Drake is about 30k, Gears 10k etc
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Gears of War 3 the multiplayer models are 15k-25k. Gears 1 you had enemy characters that were 10k Marcus himself was 15k in Gears 1.
 
i-Lo said:
Honestly, at this point it would much less than a kilometer primarily because we only saw a controlled tech demo as opposed to actual gameplay footage (which I hope is running on PS4 hardware, prototype or otherwise) of XV. To me, it looks absolutely beautiful especially given what they did with FFXIII where the all main character models suffered greatest degradation in poly count except in their faces.

Looking here, the the fidelity is truly a generation ahead:

Noctis teleporting.gif

Noctis Battling (reminds me Cloud from Advent Children).gif
Click to expand...

Surely, it's a beautiful game, but not properly next gen for me, and the characters remember too much this gen, at least for me. This is another something that i hate very well, they have a very large scenary, with tons of poligons and details, and characters that don't really scream "next gen". For me, of course, in my modest opinion.
 
RetroStu said:
Hypotetical complete game at the standard of that demo. I mean even a 1 on 1 fighting game would struggle to have 1 million polygon fighters i'm sure. The new Killer instinct for example uses 80-90k polygon fighters although that runs at 60fps.
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i understand thanks. But i what i don't understand is that quantic dreams have lied to us, the numbers about dark sorcerer are false ? O_O
 
Dark Octave said:
lol Ice cold considering Halo 3 (and ODST) probably no doubt have the worst character heads and faces this gen.
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Which is too bad because the lighting and environments are some of the best on the 360, but all it takes are shitty faces for everyone to think Halo 3 is graphically bad.
 
luca_29_bg said:
i understand thanks. But i what i don't understand is that quantic dreams have lied to us, the numbers about dark sorcerer are false ? O_O
Click to expand...

I don't know because i didn't know about the million polygon character until it was mentioned in this thread. I very much doub't the demo was running on actual PS4 hardware anyway regardless of what they say.
 
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