Support NeoGAF

[neojubei]

WTF does religion has to do with GZ case? WTF are you going on about?

I'm commenting on the Martin family going to church tomorrow.

 

[raindoc]

So this pretty much opens the flood gates to fuck with black people and then kill them and get away with it.

it should be good for the tourism industry though - i know now, that if i ever want to kill someone, the best way would be to invite that person to florida, start a fight, shoot him. no hassle because america fuck yeah. so awesome.

 

[Kacho]

I will say this.. Twitter / Facebook must make law enforcement's job so much easier when it comes to dealing with morons (and yes, sorry, this guy is a moron) like this. Congratulations, "Gunzo" - you've basically committed a felony and broadcast it to the world.. genius, my friend, you're not.

I mean, I get that emotions are running high, but don't go getting your ass in trouble over by posting shit like that on the Internet.

 

[BronsonLee]

HOT DAYUM

 

[lordfroakie]

I'm commenting on the Martin family going to church tomorrow.

Go fuck yourself.

 

[Red Blaster]

If only people got this upset over the daily gun violence in this country. But I guess there has to be racism involved and a big media circus before people give a shit. Sad.

were you in a coma during sandy hook

 

[Courage]

If Gunzo does do it I hope he begins it with a call to the cops that there's a (insert derogatory term for light skinned folks) up to no good, then claims self defense.

He'll go to jail, and rightly so, but it will be epic watching the cognitive dissonance self implosions among racists.

Murder is never epic.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

I really don't understand how it's self defense when a guy with a gun confronts an unarmed kid. Especially when the phone operator specifically told him not to.

Someone please explain this

"Trayvon started the fight."

 

[neojubei]

Go fuck yourself.

You do the same friend

 

[Lonestar]

An all woman jury and none of them had teenage kids? Or kids at all? How do you justify this in your head as a parent, where your kid can be pursued and killed while unarmed? I would tell my son to run away if possible, but if the other person has a car.....

This is incorrect. 5 of the 6 had kids, and one of them had 8.

 

[Cloudy]

I really don't understand how it's self defense when a guy with a gun confronts an unarmed kid. Especially when the phone operator specifically told him not to.

Someone please explain this

The defense convinced the jury that the kid was a "thug"

 

[Sent]

:lol they put the Fruitvale station trailer after the defence's press conference.

That movie's Box Office take has just doubled. I'll be there :'(

 

[Raptor2155]

South Florida resident here. Before the verdict was reached I predicted he would not be found guilty of second degree murder, however I was uncertain about the manslaughter charge. At the end of the day, though, the defense's case for self defense was convincing and is what ultimately led to the verdict. They articulated the following:

1) Trayvon was the one who initiated the fight.
2) As proof they stated Trayvon's corpse had no wounds other than the bullet wound while showing pictures of a wounded/bloody Zimmerman.
3) They claimed the recorded yells for help was in fact from Zimmerman during this beat down, and for good measure he had friends who testified that it was in fact his voice.
4) Because Zimmerman's head hit concrete he felt stunned and feared for his life.
5) Zimmerman's only hope to stop being attacked was to use his gun.
5) Gun forensics show that Trayvon was in fact on top of him when the gun was fired.

The above rhetoric was enough for jury to drop all charges against Zimmerman. They didn't believe beyond reasonable doubt that Zimmerman was guilty of using excessive force in the way that he did.

If this is truly the case how it happened, I understand a not guilty verdict. Regardless, this whole situation could have been avoided if we had better gun laws in this country. I really don't like the idea of an armed neighborhood watch. I don't think people should be able to walk freely in public carrying guns.

 

[ezekial45]

"He acted appropriately."

 

[Batigol]

Never mind. Thanks!

 

[Devolution]

Thread is going fast. Gonna repost this.

NAACP

OPEN A CIVIL RIGHTS CASE AGAINST GEORGE ZIMMMERMAN

A jury has acquitted George Zimmerman, but we are not done demanding justice for Trayvon. Sign our petition to the Department of Justice today.

http://www.naacp.org/page/s/doj-civil-rights-petition

Also it's good that people are angry, they should be, but you should channel that anger into constructive avenues. Groups that have been trying to get this kind of thing to change.

 

[Zoramon089]

The defense convinced the jury that the kid was a "thug"

Wasn't hard when you fill the jury with the group stereotypically most afraid of young black males

 

[thefit]

Thanks for sharing. Signed.

Same, also donated. I have a son if anyone ever hurt him I would personally settle the score because fuck your American justice system.

 

[Buzzati]

This sounds familiar.

What if I told you I stole it off his twitter? What then?

 

[Warablo]

I now feel sick because I hear fireworks.

 

[sphagnum]

If this is truly the case how it happened, I understand a not guilty verdict. Regardless, this whole situation could have been avoided if we had better gun laws in this country. I really don't like the idea of an armed neighborhood watch. I don't think people should be able to walk freely in public carrying guns.

Neighborhood Watch isn't supposed to be armed. It's against protocol. Zimmerman is just an idiot.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

No.

I am Jack's complete lack of surprise...

 

[sc0la]

God, thank god he is innocent, and he IS NOT WHITE

Anyways race is not a real thing it is a social construct

Sure, but it is a social construct that people still get murdered over, in 2013. The fact that something is a social construct is probably not a consolation as one lays dying.

 

[Vespene]

Is this the Manslaughter rules in the state of Florida, or "generally"?

Generally. I'm trying to express how ridiculous manslaughter goes by in Florida.

 

[MechaX]

This. Reasonable outcome, the prosecutor couldn't prove jackshit.

That's why so many people were expecting manslaughter. There, you only have to show that there was an unlawful killing mitigated by certain factors. The prosecution tried really hard to make it seem like Zimmerman had a plan to kill this teenager from the moment he laid eyes on him, but the facts just were not there.

Alternatively, you have facts like Zimmerman creating the risk of harm, Martin potentially exercising his own self-defense rights (exacerbated by Zimmerman stalking him, shouting at him, and continuing to follow him), and how using his firearm might have been an honest means of self-defense for Zimmerman, but was probably not reasonable given the circumstances (nor did Martin really escalate the fight high enough to the point where deadly force would be utilized, assuming how they argue the wounds/lack there of). That creates imperfect self-defense which is manslaughter.

That's just armchair lawyering, but I fall to see how justice is upheld when the prosecution made so many obvious bone-headed mistakes to bring things down this path. It may not be legal incompetence, but hoo fucking boy, you do not even know how deep the rabbit hole goes for a lawyer to be found incompetent in these scenarios.

 

[Novid]

yall need to calm down. seriously. what done is done.

 

[neojubei]

Lost at the bottom of the page so quoting self

It's ok to confront anyone as long as you have a gun. If Zimmerman didn't have a gun he would have never left his car.

 

[VanMardigan]

This is incorrect. 5 of the 6 had kids, and one of them had 8.

What my poorly worded post should have conveyed is disbelief that any of these women could have children and be ok with what happened to trayvon.

 

[Sent]

yall need to calm down. seriously. what done is done.

Try typing properly first.

 

[Oblivion]

By the way, who releases a verdict on a Saturday?

 

[Tim the Wiz]

Not even manslaughter? What the fuck, Florida.

 

[Stinkles]

yall need to calm down. seriously. what done is done.

Cool advice. Thanks for telling us how to feel and also to not give a shit.

 

[exfatal]

This makes me sick to my gut.. im glad i live in Canada then at least when im walking around the streets all i have to worry about is a man stabbing me to death and getting away with it. cause u know blacks with hoodies are labeled thugs now..

Im sick of this world.. it needs to change

 

[lazorexplosion]

I don't think Stand your ground is a bad idea, but it certainly needs to be fixed in Florida. Someone who goes looking for trouble should not be able to claim Stand Your Ground.

Lets say Trayvon was a criminal, Zimmerman got out of his car and pursued this dangerous criminal. He was not forced into the situation, he pursued it. Stand your ground should only apply in a situation where you are put in a life and death situation due to no fault of your own.

And stand your ground law was never used by the defense or considered in the courtroom. That law was completely irrelevant to this verdict, which was based on plain old vanilla self defense. So yeah.

 

[Cloudy]

Wasn't hard when you fill the jury with the group stereotypically most afraid of young black males

It's amazing to me that the prosecution could not get any black males on the jury. WTF

 

[Ekdrm2d1]

You do the same friend

 

[Sub_Level]

Disappointing. Didn't follow the case but damn.

An all woman jury and none of them had teenage kids? Or kids at all? How do you justify this in your head as a parent, where your kid can be pursued and killed while unarmed? I would tell my son to run away if possible, but if the other person has a car.....

The whole "empathetic emotional female jury" angle was silly, as they just proved.

 

[Uncle Rupee]

What my poorly worded post should have conveyed is disbelief that any of these women could have children and be ok with what happened to trayvon.

Was there any explanation given as to why the jurors were mostly white?

 

[sphagnum]

yall need to calm down. seriously. what done is done.

This kind of attitude is immensely stupid.

Hey guys calm down over this injustice! What's done is done! Don't dwell on the fact that an innocent kid got killed and his killer is walking free, it's over man!

I mean hey, what has dwelling on injustices ever done? Nothing, right?

 

[MvmntInGrn]

yall need to calm down. seriously. what done is done.

Why are people, like, discussing in a discussion thread on a discussion board?

What is up with that?

 

[Mammoth Jones]

What my poorly worded post should have conveyed is disbelief that any of these women could have children and be ok with what happened to trayvon.

Their children aren't Black...

 

[CrazyDogg77]

yall need to calm down. seriously. what done is done.

So when we see injustice and laws that need to changing we should just accept what is done as done? Change never comes that way.

 

[Courage]

yall need to calm down. seriously. what done is done.

What kind of backwards mentality is that?

 

[Zep]

The Phillies commentators talking about hearing fireworks in the background...Wondering what it could be about.

I wonder.

 

[BronsonLee]

By the way, who releases a verdict on a Saturday?

That jury, basically. It seems like they worked around the clock.

 

[freshair]

yall need to calm down. seriously. what done is done.

Complacency is never the answer

 

[Nesotenso]

Manslaughter is what's called a "lesser included offense." If someone is charged with second-degree murder, the prosecution can also submit the question of manslaughter to the jury as an alternative.

Also, I'd like to clarify some of the terms used concerning criminal cases. You didn't make this mistake, but some people are lamenting that Zimmerman wasn't "charged" with second-degree murder or manslaughter. Zimmerman was charged--that's what initiated the criminal prosecution--but he wasn't convicted. Just a heads up to some commenters in this thread.

thanks for the explanation.

so manslaughter was never brought as an alternative ?

My knowledge of the law and the related jargon comes from Law and Order unfortunately.
what charges were brought against him besides 2nd degree murder ?

 

[params7]

South Florida resident here. Before the verdict was reached I predicted he would not be found guilty of second degree murder, however I was uncertain about the manslaughter charge. At the end of the day, though, the defense's case for self defense was convincing and is what ultimately led to the verdict. They articulated the following:

1) Trayvon was the one who initiated the fight.
2) As proof they stated Trayvon's corpse had no wounds other than the bullet wound while showing pictures of a wounded/bloody Zimmerman.
3) They claimed the recorded yells for help was in fact from Zimmerman during this beat down, and for good measure he had friends who testified that it was in fact his voice.
4) Because Zimmerman's head hit concrete he felt stunned and feared for his life.
5) Zimmerman's only hope to stop being attacked was to use his gun.
5) Gun forensics show that Trayvon was in fact on top of him when the gun was fired.

The above rhetoric was enough for jury to drop all charges against Zimmerman. They didn't believe beyond reasonable doubt that Zimmerman was guilty of using excessive force in the way that he did.

If that's how this went down, I really don't see any problem here.

 

[gutter_trash]

that's all I got to say

 

[Drakeon]

So, is this a big enough thing to spark riots? Because my first thought when I found out was there were going to be riots.