Nope don't need it as proof. Just support.
It really doesn't take much common sense to know that starting a conversation that way would be a bad idea.
I don't think you're giving the man enough credit here.
Obama: "Trayvon Martin could have been me."
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Nope don't need it as proof. Just support.
It really doesn't take much common sense to know that starting a conversation that way would be a bad idea.
I don't think you're giving the man enough credit here.
Every marginalized group in America feels like they aren't getting proper attention. Black, Jewish, Gay, Liberals, Conservatives... Nobody is happy. But this is the conversation our country is having and I am happy to see him express his view. Stay on topic.
I'm sure Bloomberg also voted for Obama. He's still kinda racist (we don't target blacks enough in stop and frisk)
No one expects him to completely end the war on drugs by himself, he obviously doesn't have power to that. As head of the federal government's law enforcement agencies, he does have the power to focus the enforcement efforts toward high level dealers and smugglers and away from trying to arrest as many low level users as possible to make their numbers look good in budget hearings.
Wasn't using that as proof he wasn't racist. As I said in another post, he could have had the best history of all time with regards to race, and it doesn't change the fact that he could have been racially profiling.
You are basically saying that Zimmerman knew that his 911 call might be used against him, so carefully measured his words almost in a methodical sense. Can't really debate that, as there is nothing really to debate (there is no evidence either way). But I have to imagine, if someone really DID do that (in an incident that wasn't pre-mediated), that would be pretty insane.
Epsilon-delta
Banned
The same evidence the defense put a witness on the stand testifying about recent home robberies in the neighborhood committed by young black males, for justification of Zimmerman profiling and following Trayvon that night?
Yeah, that evidence.
readLeader
Banned
I don't really understand why the discussion is still about trial tactics and Zimmerman. He was acquitted, you don't have to like it but that's that. Where the US is now is a state of reflection about why it happened, whether something needs to change to prevent this kind of thing from happening again, and what that change would have to be.
Also, can someone TLDR whether anyone saying Obama should shut up about this gave any reason for that opinion beyond "cause I don't like him/what he says"?
Also, can someone TLDR whether anyone saying Obama should shut up about this gave any reason for that opinion beyond "cause I don't like him/what he says"?
One person said because he was black, he shouldn't speak about it. =/
Shrennin
Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
So, that becomes a logical reason for profiling without regards to race specifically since recent robberies, according to that witness, were committed by young, black males?
The issue is if Zimmerman would act differently if there was a string of robberies committed by young, [enter race here] males.
Not exactly a counterpoint to mine. Nice try though.
Doesnt mean he did either. Whether it was a racist stereotype that drove him to call or not can (and will) be argued for tons and tons of posts and we will get all upset and stuff but what it comes down to is who started the physical fight. That is what the self-defense claim relies on to be sound.
He did.
Oops, sorry. I misunderstood.
For people that go through what trayvon went through, yes its very important. You cant have a population that thinks its open season on them, with the law backing it up.
Glad he spoke on this. I was calling him a coward for not saying anything.
For everyone else, who "don't see color" of course this is insignificant.
Spring-Loaded
Member
That's what the case comes down to; the law is concerned with how the altercation itself started.
People who live outside of a court room are more concerned with everything leading up to that confrontation and the fact that those events are, in some circumstance, now legal.
soundahfekz
Member
yep. its clear some people enjoy things the way they are. People see Obama as the black President of the United States rather than the President of the United States. He's never operated in a manner partial to race, but hasn't been afraid to acknowledge prejudice and judicial disparity are rampant in an ethnicity he just happends to be made up of.
Had Bill Clinton been President and said it, this would be a non issue.
RawkHawk2010
Member
Do you honestly believe that?
PhoenixDark
Banned
The dismissive and generally bitter reactions of some people towards Obama's comments really highlight a closing of the mind that has been going on for decades. Race and racism are complex issues that have not gone away, and will not go away. Yet racism today is still seen through the prism or either slavery or the 1960s: beatings, lynchings, blatant segregation. Because most if not all of these major things are not happening in 2013, and because we now have a black president, some seem quite convinced race is no longer an issue. And because of that, race has been swept under a rug. Any discussion of differences among races or racism is liable to be attacked as fostering discontent or ill - as if the mere mention of racism today will suddenly revive it from its deep slumber.
As Obama mentioned, racial profiling is not some long dead practice. It happens every day, every hour in this country. And the Zimmerman case, right or wrong, is seen entirely through that lens by many black people. If a person has spent most of his life being blatantly racially profiled during trips to the corner store, or while walking late at night, it should not come as a surprise that they view Zimmerman confronting Martin as an issue of profiling. After all, Martin went to a corner store and then attempted to go home before being pursued by someone. Zimmerman called 911 and complained about "these assholes" always getting away with crimes. Is it any surprise that black people, specifically black men, identify with Martin? We have been "those assholes" for most of our lives.
The general retort to all of this is that Zimmerman had black friends, and therefore clearly was not racist. Which, again, goes back to the point about racism as a concept being simplified today. Zimmerman never lynched a black person, nor did he refuse to serve a black person at a restaurant - therefore he's clearly not racist. I don't know whether Zimmerman is racist or not. Nor do I believe every white woman who hurriedly crosses the street (in broad daylight) when I'm behind her is racist. But I believe that Zimmerman assumed Martin was up to no good due to who he was: a young black male. Or, a young "dark" male if you want to harp on Zimmerman telling the operator that he thought Martin was black; I think it's safe to say he knew he was not white.
As long as we continue to shrink discussions of race, and get outraged that we're even discussing racism in 2013, we will always have this problem. Racism will always be seen as a double edged sword to many white people: to them, they feel as if they're being accused of something, as if racism is their fault or their grandfather's fault, as if we cannot discuss racism without putting white people on trial. And to those people I would simply say, imagine that feeling of assumed guilt nagging at you every day, every hour, every minute, for years. Decades. Every time you go into a store late at night, or every time you're driving in a nice car, or every time you accidentally lock yourself out your house and are outside looking for the key. Perhaps then you will know how many black people feel to an extent, and why this case is so personal to us.
As Obama mentioned, racial profiling is not some long dead practice. It happens every day, every hour in this country. And the Zimmerman case, right or wrong, is seen entirely through that lens by many black people. If a person has spent most of his life being blatantly racially profiled during trips to the corner store, or while walking late at night, it should not come as a surprise that they view Zimmerman confronting Martin as an issue of profiling. After all, Martin went to a corner store and then attempted to go home before being pursued by someone. Zimmerman called 911 and complained about "these assholes" always getting away with crimes. Is it any surprise that black people, specifically black men, identify with Martin? We have been "those assholes" for most of our lives.
The general retort to all of this is that Zimmerman had black friends, and therefore clearly was not racist. Which, again, goes back to the point about racism as a concept being simplified today. Zimmerman never lynched a black person, nor did he refuse to serve a black person at a restaurant - therefore he's clearly not racist. I don't know whether Zimmerman is racist or not. Nor do I believe every white woman who hurriedly crosses the street (in broad daylight) when I'm behind her is racist. But I believe that Zimmerman assumed Martin was up to no good due to who he was: a young black male. Or, a young "dark" male if you want to harp on Zimmerman telling the operator that he thought Martin was black; I think it's safe to say he knew he was not white.
As long as we continue to shrink discussions of race, and get outraged that we're even discussing racism in 2013, we will always have this problem. Racism will always be seen as a double edged sword to many white people: to them, they feel as if they're being accused of something, as if racism is their fault or their grandfather's fault, as if we cannot discuss racism without putting white people on trial. And to those people I would simply say, imagine that feeling of assumed guilt nagging at you every day, every hour, every minute, for years. Decades. Every time you go into a store late at night, or every time you're driving in a nice car, or every time you accidentally lock yourself out your house and are outside looking for the key. Perhaps then you will know how many black people feel to an extent, and why this case is so personal to us.
Come on, now. Obama could arrest O.J. and the reaction on the right would still be that this proves he wants to kill White people.
Well this is a man who prepares himself for outcomes he sees as likely (or at least likely enough that he should worry about them)
He's a neighborhood watch guy that carries a gun just in case he needs to use it, and reports "suspicious" activity in his neighborhood just in case someone is up to something, and attends classes on the stand your ground law just in case...
That implies a certain level of preparedness, and insane or not, it seems to have worked out for him.
And therein lies part of the problem, and one of the reason why we need to continue this debate and not bury our heads into the sand until things 'get back to normal'.
Which, of course, is my argument in the first place.
Conservative Cartoonist Gary McCoy:
During the Bush presidency, any questioning of asinine foreign policies was "treason". During the Obama presidency, wishing the president dead...
User 100115
Banned
Honestly guys, it is about race. Now. EVEN IF Zimmerman didn't profile Martin, didn't stalk him just because he was young black male, the fact that tons of people immediately jumped to his defense, tried to paint Martin as a 'gangsta thug', destroyed his character, made up stuff, all in defense of Zimmerman, means it's about race now. Even if race had nothing to do with the confrontation and Martin's death, the response and the defense of Zimmerman VERY MUCH WAS.
soundahfekz
Member
So. Many. Truth. Bombs.
To be clear, I think all drugs should be decriminalized and that drug use should be treated as the public health issue that it is. But I can't ignore how the GOP has chosen to fight Obama on damn near every single issue imaginable, even those they (used to) support. At the same time, the country has only recently crossed the 50% mark in terms of supporting marijuana legalization. So I'm hoping it could be something for the next presidential administration to tackle.
Even if Obama could make drugs legal tomorrow and stop all the nonsense done in the name of that horrific war, it still wouldn't negate anything he said today.
amazing post. Amazing post. And its so evident, even on gaf. Which sucks at times like these.
whats the point of agreeing anymore with common sense. But still.. great post.
This is absolutely true. I honestly don't have very much against Obama, and I don't really know enough about Trayvon vs. Zimmerman to have an opinion, but I really feel like the president shouldn't say something like this.
polyh3dron
Banned
But the law still affected the instructions given to the jury so THIS WAS A "STAND YOUR GROUND" CASE, NOMIS!
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Cool, another thread full of people telling black people what they should be saying and telling them what is or isn't racist.
How can you read PhoenixPauses post and say something like this?
So you know nothing about Trayvon Martin being shot to death, and you think Obama shouldn't mention the controversy happening in the entire black population of the country.
Why?
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
You not serious are you?
Since you're willfully uninformed, perhaps it is you that should stay out of it
Exr
Member
I...what...how can you form a negative opinion of this when you admit to knowing nothing about it?
EDIT great post Phoenix.
Its unfortunate to see Phoenix's post literally having examples provided in this very thread.
And this thread will continue to underline his message.
I'd suggest trying to communicate, by getting to common ground instead of being angry because non-blacks are oblivious to whats happening to us.
Try to let the anger go, and try to actually communicate with the people who are blind to racism.
And this thread will continue to underline his message.
I'd suggest trying to communicate, by getting to common ground instead of being angry because non-blacks are oblivious to whats happening to us.
Try to let the anger go, and try to actually communicate with the people who are blind to racism.
Eh... There was a lot of the same BS directed at Bush, even books written about it. Of course, as per any affiliation, it only happens to YOUR chosen champion and never the other guy!
Grass is greener logic unless you literally slept under a rock the 8 years that failure was President.
Serious as cancer.
entremet
Member
Basically lol.
Same with the gender threads that tell women to shut up about inequality.
captmcblack
Member
Can you actually be productive with your posting. Why do you think it has nothing to do with race?
I mean you realize this is a very significant subject for black people. Even if you don't get why, you have to know there are protests happening today over this. It would be great to submit something to actually discuss, rather than drive by statements that are very insulting considering how Trayvon was smeared to be a Thug and a gangster, which he wasn't.
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
I've always found the assumption that Zimmerman was the one standing his ground odd. I look at the case and listen to the tapes, and I suspect it was the other way around.
People are scared. They are worried that it doesn't matter what they do, that a random citizen can follow them around and shoot them dead in the streets. This wasn't a drunken fight behind a bar where someone ended up having a gun. You had an unarmed kid walking home from the store at what, 7pm at night? Yeah, people are going to be a bit upset. But the biggest problem is that nobody seemed to care at first, that's what stings.
I think a lot of people are just scared to talk about this openly. They want to take a dismissive stance and ignore the concern that a large segment of the population has. "Oh, don't turn everything into a race thing." When you're Black in America, lots of things get turned into that for you. I think concern on the other side comes from another place of fear, that they'll be accused of racism themselves. I see people posting pictures of White teenagers "Why didn't they get more attention!" And you just know the issue completely sailed over the person's head. How long did we talk about Natalee Holloway? A Black person killing a White person isn't an interesting story. It's crime. A White person killing a Black person isn't an interesting story. It's crime. But when a case might have been swept under the rug until people started getting up in arms about it...that's a societal problem we need to have a debate about.
People are scared. They are worried that it doesn't matter what they do, that a random citizen can follow them around and shoot them dead in the streets. This wasn't a drunken fight behind a bar where someone ended up having a gun. You had an unarmed kid walking home from the store at what, 7pm at night? Yeah, people are going to be a bit upset. But the biggest problem is that nobody seemed to care at first, that's what stings.
I think a lot of people are just scared to talk about this openly. They want to take a dismissive stance and ignore the concern that a large segment of the population has. "Oh, don't turn everything into a race thing." When you're Black in America, lots of things get turned into that for you. I think concern on the other side comes from another place of fear, that they'll be accused of racism themselves. I see people posting pictures of White teenagers "Why didn't they get more attention!" And you just know the issue completely sailed over the person's head. How long did we talk about Natalee Holloway? A Black person killing a White person isn't an interesting story. It's crime. A White person killing a Black person isn't an interesting story. It's crime. But when a case might have been swept under the rug until people started getting up in arms about it...that's a societal problem we need to have a debate about.
You really see people's true colors when they lose power.
I'll meet you half way, Fiction. All the stuff I've seen to destroy his character has been in direct opposition to the propping up of his character. However, your main point that this case shows a race issue not because of the case itself but people's reaction to it shows issues in race relations in America is very true and something both sides seem to want to blame on the other.
I already did and I'm at work so my posting ability is limited.
User 100115
Banned
Also, the fact that none of those things would have happened if Martin were a white kid really speaks about the crux of the issue. In fact, they likely would have happened to Zimmerman instead (all the pundits would have been calling him hispanic and laying out the laundry list of his past crimes and accusations instead of trying to defend them) if Martin had been white.
If that were true, though, the pundits would have also focused on all the stuff that Zimmerman has been accused of, and his past criminal record. They didn't. They defended it.
Angelus Errare
Banned
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Zimmerman said so himself. He is the proof.
Choke on the Magic
Banned
I never said it would be easier. I simply said it gives traction to his agenda for it and to me if you're going up to make a public address on the problems the black community has with institutionalized racism and don't mention disporportionate sentencing of black people with drug charges, it's to forward your agenda. Nothings illegit about what he said, but he's not as altruistic as the poster I was originally addressing seems to think.
Zimmerman had no motive to return to his car, and he lied to the police dispatch numerous times.
Why are you so defensive of a murder?
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