Lv99 Slacker
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Henry Louis Gates, the Harvard professor, immediately came to mind.
Obama: "Trayvon Martin could have been me."
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Henry Louis Gates, the Harvard professor, immediately came to mind.
There was a ton of evidence Martin was on top of him. I dont think the prosecution even put up much argument against that.
Stuff like this explains why Blacks are Democrats.
empty vessel
Member
There was evidence of that. There was not good evidence, however, that Martin was beating Zimmerman up (as opposed to, say, restraining him). Nor was there good evidence that, if Martin was beating Zimmerman, it was not justifiable force by Martin.
Amibguous Cad
Member
Evidence showed that the state could not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it wasn't in self-defense. That's a big difference. Ties, as it were, go to the defense; the burden of proof to lock someone up for murder is, thankfully, pretty high.
That doesn't necessarily mean that most of the evidence pointed towards Zimmerman being innocent. That's just about the only way I can square the verdict with the evidence. Z was probably guilty, but the jury wasn't confident enough in that decision to clear the high bar required for incarceration. I fully expect him to lose in civil court, where the standard is by a "preponderance of the evidence" - in other words, if you've got 51% probability, you order restitution.
In the local paper's site, I noticed how every time there's any news concerning a black person committing some crime, the comments sections fill up with the borderline to outright racists hurling insults at the alleged perpetrator. Anyone else, there are hardly any comments, or sometimes (as in the case of a white bank robber) they are actually celebrated. And these people can't see why they might be considered racists.
I haven't been following, what have they been saying?
Conservatives and people who want to discount Obama's truth telling want to paint him non-black but erase the presidential title and erase all of his political history. 35 years ago if you saw Obama on the street especially if you were white, he would just be another black guy to you. It's why Obama has all those stories of the discrimination he felt as a black man.
And that's the issue they don't want to confront.
This post was flagged in PoliGAF as being outstanding, and it is. Thanks PD.
I have a lot of singular memories from my childhood. Small moments, or fragments of time to borrow a recent song lyric. One has stayed with me as vividly as any. I was ~10 years old, and spending the day with my older brother, who was in college, in Iowa City. He's parked his car on the main street downtown to run into the library. And I do what any little brother in his big brother's cool car would do: I started fiddling with the knobs and buttons in the car. I loved gizmos.
I just kind of played with radio dials, the wiper/signals and such, the windows, and the locks. It was that last one that burned a memory in place. I toggled the power locks - these were the kind with the little stubs that stuck up and down that you'd pull up on manually to unlock - and they locked down with loud clicks. Mind you, this was right after rolling up the windows, for the heck of it. And then I looked up.
There was a black man walking past on the sidewalk who had stopped for a moment and was just staring. I will never, ever forget the look on his face, though I'm not sure I could describe it. He was of college age, probably a student. He had a mix of surprise, anger and deep hurt mingling. We locked eyes for a moment and I looked down in discomfort. When I looked back up he'd moved on.
I had no idea why he'd looked at me like that. And I didn't really understand it until at least 10 years later, maybe more. It wasn't until then that I realized he'd probably had a lifetime of people locking their cars as he walked past, or people crossing the street so as to not be followed by him. Little moments borne out of some deep discomfort. I don't know.
I'm 36 now, and that moment is one I recall often when race issues are being debated. In part because I have no real experience with race issues. I was a white kid raised in one of the whitest states in the country (Iowa, which when I was young was around 98% white). There was one black kid in our entire elementary school. It's an entire topic I've never had to address or deal with personally.
Not really sure where this is going, but PD's post made me think back on that moment once more, when I inadvertently locked the car when a young black man was walking past. He'd probably had too many of those ugly moments in his life, and I handed him another. I've always wanted to go back in time and tell him I was just a kid fucking around with the locks.
theignoramus
Member
The WSJ just reposted an article from 2008 that talks about how then senator Obama was mistaken for "the help" at some high end New York socialite party involving people from the Clinton administration.
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/11/07/before-he-was-president-mistaken-for-a-waiter-a-2003-obama-meeting/
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/11/07/before-he-was-president-mistaken-for-a-waiter-a-2003-obama-meeting/
http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/19/z...shes-to-defend-zimmerman-after-obamas-remarks
Crappy site but O'Mara responded to Obama.
Crappy site but O'Mara responded to Obama.
Dude Abides
Banned
Why would the defense want people to take a closer look at the type of person Zimmerman is? He's a loser vigilante with a failed marriage and violent past who started an incident that led to him killing a teenager.
empty vessel
Member
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/19/sean-hannity-obama-trayvon-martin_n_3625495.html
http://www.salon.com/2013/07/19/fox_news_host_obama_is_race_baiter_in_chief/
There's more, but it was mostly substitute radio guys. Limbaugh and Beck are on vacation. One guy made fun of Stevie Wonder for being blind because Wonder said that he's boycotting the state of Florida. I don't know why, but that one really just pissed me off.
Big Baybee
Member
Because they know people don't give a shit about his past or past actions.
Tell the Gaf community and protesters that.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
What did they say when they let you go?
reggieandTFE
Member
Two if my black coworkers, 1 male and 1 female, were hanging out at their hotel pool this past Saturday night in a south suburb of Chicago.
Three good old boys in town for work started an incident by cat-calling the female and then calling them both niggers when the male responded. This situation is something they're used to and would have been easy to just walk away.
The institutional racism that most whites don't see happened with the staff middle management. The clerk at the desk was horrified by the situation and promised to do something about it.
When the manager heard about it, she told my coworkers that she wasn't going to do anything and it was just a harmless prank.
Mind you, we have a two month contract for 8 hotel rooms and a meeting room at this location.
I was moved to finally hear Obama talk from his heart, but going by the conservative media response and the not exceptional situation with my coworkers, we have a long way to go in this country.
Three good old boys in town for work started an incident by cat-calling the female and then calling them both niggers when the male responded. This situation is something they're used to and would have been easy to just walk away.
The institutional racism that most whites don't see happened with the staff middle management. The clerk at the desk was horrified by the situation and promised to do something about it.
When the manager heard about it, she told my coworkers that she wasn't going to do anything and it was just a harmless prank.
Mind you, we have a two month contract for 8 hotel rooms and a meeting room at this location.
I was moved to finally hear Obama talk from his heart, but going by the conservative media response and the not exceptional situation with my coworkers, we have a long way to go in this country.
Joel Was Right
Member
I created a thread a few days ago that featured an Al-Jazeera documentary into the state of the education of black children -- specifically black boys -- in the US. It reveals that in 2012, Michigan Merit exam, an annual assessment given to 11th graders and eligible 12th graders, found that less than 10 percent of Highland Park students in these grades were proficient in reading or math. But much of what it touches on are themes we're already familiar with; the cycle of poverty, for example.
President Obama's mentioning of the problems facing the development of young black males triggered a thought I had whilst watching that documentary: is the solution in ending these racial stereotypes to be found inside the black community, or outside by appealing to the better nature of people
President Obama's mentioning of the problems facing the development of young black males triggered a thought I had whilst watching that documentary: is the solution in ending these racial stereotypes to be found inside the black community, or outside by appealing to the better nature of people
The Snowdon leaks were absolutely big news and were in the public dialogue though. A lot has to do with the public being disillusioned and thinking individually 'oh what can we actually do though? New news please.' - out of sight out of mind really does resonate unfortunately.
It's hard to deny the Snowdon leaks were big news not just in the US but across Europe too and worldwide.
I'm not arguing that but obama has already said his position on it. It's not like snowden revealed something illegal and obama is going to be prosecuted for it. In general the public at least the US public can not really do anything about it. So there is no point of obama using trayvon as some sort of shield to take this so called "spotlight" off of him. Which is what I was referring to.
Obama was in a controversial position in regards to the whole event, not just it happening under his administration but how he responded to it and the people who surround him's response. The leaks meant a lot of people further distrusted the Government and his approval ratings dipped. If he states a controversial statement like this then at least it takes the conversation regarding him away from actual cabinet business and onto something that could possibly gain him support from the public again.
Like I said originally, I'm not a conspiracy nut and stating unequivocally that Obama's only motivation in saying this was for his benefit to hush the NSA discussion. Far from it actually. I'm just saying that it's a way in that saying this could have benefited him and he'd more than likely be aware.
What President Obama touched on had more to do with racism itself rather than what might cause it, or even the results.
Obama had some of the most privileged experiences possible as a young black man, but assumptions were still made about him just because of the color of his skin.
It's like the girl who covers her drink when you start talking to her, or how she won't accept something you have poured. She might like you, she might even be attracted to you, but in the back of her mind you understand that she's trying to avoid the tiny chance that you might try to drug and rape her.
It stings. Now imagine that with everyone. Everyone suspects you, follows you. The benefit of the doubt that everyone else enjoys does not exist for you.
And it stings. Obama can identify with that, not because he grew up poor, didn't get a good education, witnessed violence personally, had run ins with the cops, or any other situation other young black men might face, but because we're social animals who have evolved to notice when we're being made to feel out of place, and solely because of the color of his skin he has been made to feel that way in the past.
Why should he care if his approval ratings dips? He is not running for a third term and it's not like speaking about trayvon would make people forget about snowden. He is still on the loose and not in US custody. There is no logical reason for someone to think that obama made a political maneuver when there is no real tangible benefits to doing so. How long will people talk about trayvon? A couple of days or a week, and then go right back to the snowden leaks. It just doesn't make any sense to say he did it for political reasons.
PhoenixDark
Banned
The Snowden/NSA argument here (and other places) is pathetic, and rather childish in earnest. People are capable of discussing more than one story at the same time, and the US media cycle ensures multiple stories are constantly in rotation. This Martin story has been the biggest story in the US for at least two weeks if not more, and the Snowden story has been heavily discussed (perhaps as the second or third biggest story in the country).
Snowden will return to #1 the minute Russia makes its final decision. It's disingenuous to argue Obama is so concerned about a news story that he purposely decided to distract from it with...the biggest news story of the year. He was expected to make a comment about the case, given how high tensions are.
It's similar to conservatives criticizing people for not discussing black on black crime, as if we are not mentally capable of discussing Martin and black on black crime at the same time. And in both cases I sense an underlining message that the Martin story isn't important, whereas Snowden (or black on black crime) are, and therefore people should just get over it.
Snowden will return to #1 the minute Russia makes its final decision. It's disingenuous to argue Obama is so concerned about a news story that he purposely decided to distract from it with...the biggest news story of the year. He was expected to make a comment about the case, given how high tensions are.
It's similar to conservatives criticizing people for not discussing black on black crime, as if we are not mentally capable of discussing Martin and black on black crime at the same time. And in both cases I sense an underlining message that the Martin story isn't important, whereas Snowden (or black on black crime) are, and therefore people should just get over it.
Because he's a head of state in a democracy. Say what you want but I'd want my head of state to care about his people's opinion of his actions.
And it's also disingenuous to over estimate my support of it. I'm defending it because you're both stating point blank there is nothing in it when in fact, as small as it may be, it is a fair reason to mention.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
So ummmm.......is George Zimmerman trying to turn into Batman or something?
http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/22/us/florida-zimmerman-vehicle/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/22/us/florida-zimmerman-vehicle/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
The head of state sometimes makes unpopular decisions, it's a part of the job. Obamacare trended horribly before and after it was passed, so should he have just given up on that because it gave him negative approval ratings? And as I said, he is not running for a third term any negative "controversies" have no real tangible damage on how he will govern. You keep bringing this up and I keep saying it is worthless.
It's his job to represent the people. And Obamacare/NSA are different - he was elected on a manifesto of introducing healthcare and in doing so he was acting upon what people voted on him to do. He wasn't elected on the basis of 'spying on our own people/allies relentlessly!'
Do you really think Obama actively doesn't care about approval ratings? Regardless of if he is chasing election or not no President wants to leave with a terrible record. And it's difficult to just reply with 'Obamacare hurts his ratings' because having Obamacare installed would leave a strong legacy, he wouldn't want to be known as the President who loves and approves intrusive NSA practices.
Not really. As PD said, this is a huge issue in the US right now. He spoke about it before, and he was expected by many to comment on it after the trial's outcome. No conspiracy.
Vicetrailia
Banned
He's done some good things, but he's also an accused child molestor.
Do you even remember what we originally were talking about? The NSA issue is bigger than any trayvon issue. Speaking about trayvon would distract no one from thinking or talking about the nsa controversy. Snowden is still out there, the NSA is still NSAing so to hint that it may have even been political by a tiny bit for obama to talk about trayvon when it will be on the nations conscience for maybe a week or so is absolutely stupid.
Only in the sense that talking about anything "distracts" people from talking about other things more. For example, your insisting on talking about this distracts us from posting in the "Zimmerman helped someone" thread. Which means... nothing.
PhoenixDark
Banned
No, it's not. I'm not denying that politicians don't distract from news stories, but to even suggest the WH is so concerned about Snowden that they trotted out Obama to discuss Trayvon Martin is absurd. Nearly half of Americans support the NSA's actions, and most Americans believe Snowden should be prosecuted for his actions. Snowden is a big story, but I don't believe it is a dominant story among most Americans.
We don't live in a society that can only discuss one thing at a time. As the first black president, Obama was going to have to address Martin in a major way sooner or later. Now the media has largely moved on to discuss Kate Middleton's baby. And as I said, Snowden will be back when Russia makes its move.
I'm wondering how many of those people really ever approved of him in the first place.
Well clearly one of the reasons she had that baby was to distract from heatwave deaths.
Both of these posts are great. It reminds me that it's important to acknowledge that prejudice exists in our society and that we should be self aware. I don't know of a person alive who hasn't double checked their locks when they roll into a shady part of town.
Obama (and others) really just want people to be aware that prejudices like this do exist. Many people believe that we live in a post-racial society, and that bringing up race issues automatically taints discourse. The truth is that we live in a society where your skin color does make a difference, even if you are as smart and charismatic as the PoTUS.
I agree with most of what you're saying, but even if minimal distraction is still there.
You not posting in that thread doesn't benefit me whatsoever. People talking more about Trayvon/Obama personally not talking more about NSA for now does benefit him somewhat.
I'm not suggesting that the WH trotted him out intentionally to district everyone from the NSA - that was the opinion of another poster. I'm saying that as a consequence it benefits them, not that it was there original aim. I said in an earlier post Obama spoke about the issue because he cares about the issue first and foremost. And for a long while Snowdown was the dominant story in American media, at least from an outsider looking in and from me talking to family there.
I agree wholeheartedly with this, but some stories/discussions take priority which lessens other stories.
Strawman me to death all you want.
Unlikely. As said previously, there is a lot of support for these actions; it's actually the minority of people who are upset about it. Much like talking about drones, talking more about the strength of Obama's NSA helps both him and Democrats long-term, re: national security bonifides.
GTA tells me that if he weren't there, that family would've likely exploded. Jury redeemed.
childplease
Banned
Didn't that guy ask for it though ?
Either way Gates came out looking like a pompous ass in the end.
Cop was a pure class act.
I just want to comment based on the fact that the baby being shot in the face story is now proven false. Racist apologizers on faceboook trotted out a story that essentially was concocted by racist child killing monsters, in a racist tone (stated that the shooting was race related although even the made up story had nothing to do with that), all to draw parallels to how the media is being racist by everyone calling out George Zimmerman for racially profiling a kid.
This is society.
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