That is the definition of racial profiling. Some crimes are committed by young black guys, so therefore all young black guys are suspicious without doing anything else wrong.
Obama: "Trayvon Martin could have been me."
- Thread starter The Librarian
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That is the definition of racial profiling. Some crimes are committed by young black guys, so therefore all young black guys are suspicious without doing anything else wrong.
What part of what Obama said warrants and eye roll from you?
You don't know what profiling is, at the same time saying that he is racially profiling.
Are you confused about any of this?
soundscream
Member
So in your opinion all young black males would be suspects, because they were walking in the area?
Black Door
Banned
neogaf.com
Why should you feel different if you arent?
Why aren't you appalled regardless? Maybe it's just something lost in translation from dutch to ESL.
Shrennin
Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
No. I'm not defending Zimmerman in the slightest, but does the reaction to this case not revolve around black racial profiling in particular? I'm not saying racial profiling wasn't done, but the question is if Zimmerman specifically and only targets blacks and would exclude all other races all things being equal. I don't think there's evidence to point to that.
As far as the case - I agree with the verdict (only because of the lack of evidence), but I think Zimmerman is a bad person.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
Sweet Mary Moses! Not the Obama Hate!! Anything but that!!!
Some of you guys are fuckin amazing. And not in the good, Las Vegas way.
Black Republican
Member
i know what you're trying to say but the wording is very poor lol
Oh I am. But, we have to try to have a discussion. We can't get upset. We have to calmly discuss this with people. Trying to get that message out to everyone.
For example:
A few posts above yours I have a member telling me that Zimmerman didn't racially profile anyone, he was just considering Trayvon a problem because he was black. And blacks commit crimes in Zimmerman's community. But that isn't profiling, because "what if it was a white person!" Which would still be racially profiling.
How can you really get upset at this sort of ignorance?
Trayvon Martin could've been me as well.
I have brown skin, dark eyes, dark hair. Who's to say another Zimmerman wouldn't profile me as well? I get mistaken for being Middle Eastern all the time (I'm not), who's to say someone doesn't racially profile me as a "terrorist" or "Arab" and blow my brains out too, then claim I was planting a bomb or plotting something? Hell, I live in a neighborhood/suburb in SoCal that is predominantly white, I think something like 95% of my neighborhood is white!
Cases like the Zimmerman case just show me that despite me just being a "person" and a "citizen" (just like Trayvon was), I too can be targeted and brutally murdered by a racist, trigger-happy nutjob. Hell, for all I know there's someone in my neighborhood that already watches me closely and suspects me of being up to no good because of my outward appearance.
I have brown skin, dark eyes, dark hair. Who's to say another Zimmerman wouldn't profile me as well? I get mistaken for being Middle Eastern all the time (I'm not), who's to say someone doesn't racially profile me as a "terrorist" or "Arab" and blow my brains out too, then claim I was planting a bomb or plotting something? Hell, I live in a neighborhood/suburb in SoCal that is predominantly white, I think something like 95% of my neighborhood is white!
Cases like the Zimmerman case just show me that despite me just being a "person" and a "citizen" (just like Trayvon was), I too can be targeted and brutally murdered by a racist, trigger-happy nutjob. Hell, for all I know there's someone in my neighborhood that already watches me closely and suspects me of being up to no good because of my outward appearance.
Higgins113
Banned
Obama is one slick motherfucker. He's using this case so people talk something else other than his scandals.
Shrinnan, you can't just say he didn't racially profile. Then explain that he racially profiled trayvon due to the blacks committing crimes
Angelus Errare
Banned
Why does everyone seem to forget that roughly 70% of African Americans living in the US have European in them?
Spring-Loaded
Member
You've said that there's no point in discussing whether Zimmerman was racist/profiling based on race since we can't know for certain what happened. Going by that same logic, there's no point in focusing on the fight itself since we don't know what happened. We have Zimmerman's (varying) recounts of the fight and a couple eyewitnesses who didn't see the entire confrontation. Why keep shifting focus to the physical fight that Martin may or may not have started when we know Zimmerman spotted and followed Martin to begin with, despite not doing nothing more than walking down the street?
And even if stalking, profiling, believing black people are inherently guilty of something and following them with this assumption while armed with a gun are legal, why should we accept that? Are you okay with living in a country where this is permissible? Do you believe there's nothing wrong with the above being considered legal?
You keep trying to shift discussion to the fight itself as if it exists in a vacuum, as if Zimmerman's actions leading up to it don't matter at all. That makes little sense if you're have the pretense of looking at this situation logically.
soundscream
Member
Referring to Trayvon as one of the assholes who always gets away, is him profiling him because he associated a black teen as a criminal.
Epsilon-delta
Banned
It's still racial profiling. If there has been lewd and lascivious acts committed by white males in my neighborhood and I called the police because I saw a suspicious white male in my neighborhood, it would be racial profiling.
We are all conditioned to harbor some stereotypical views against certain types of people. Studies have even shown that several black people hold prejudiced views against their own racial group!
I don't think that this makes us racist, although we do subconsciously hold racist dispositions towards other people.
I've actually caught myself (on several occasions) behaving in a racist manner against other minorities. The fact that I can catch myself and correct my behavior is what should matter, not that I hold these conditioned dispositions in the first place.
I think that if I have subconscious racial dispositions towards whiteness and against non-whiteness (and I'm a brown Hispanic) then many white people must also have internalized aspects of white supremacy that they're not consciously aware of.
Zeus Molecules
illegal immigrants are stealing our air
Wait....What?
Very stupid approach for a democracy, no?
What would you have him do besides talk about it? Sign a bunch of executive orders? Do you really want an all-in-one, executive solution instead of one that properly spreads through the public discourse?
j_k_redtail
Member
Ever see a post on GAF and think "what a stupid post"? This one provoked the exact opposite reaction.
Epsilon-delta
Banned
Bingo.
Shrennin
Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
I wasn't clear enough - I was under the assumption that we were talking about the problem that blacks have with racial profiling. I should have been more clear from the get-go and that was my fault. However, I'm not sure if Zimmerman specifically racial profiled Martin because he was black, or because of the recent robberies which made him target a specific race. In other words, I understand that Zimmerman racially profiled in part at the very least.
I'm sure you will see a lot of conservatives subscribe to the same mindset.
Never mind that it's factually incorrect.
Nothing at all. It just seems weird to me that everyone, both positively and negatively, harps on his blackness, when half of his family are as white as can be. And he was raised by those super duper white people. I'd think the crazy racist right wingers would think of him as "one of the good ones" or some shit.
The comment I made didn't really pertain to the subject or topic at hand. Just something that's been bugging me for a while in that mixed people are almost always considered black, not mixed, not white, always black.
Choke on the Magic
Banned
I think you're reading too much into what I'm saying which btw is based off nothing but my opinion. I don't think what the man has said today is controversial in anyway, but I don't believe he'd say anything that wouldn't help him politically based soley on the fact that he's silent on so many things especially one's that at one time he took issue with.
Segregation, oppression, etc. has basically caused a huge cultural rift that will likely not be healed anytime soon. White and black culture is like comparing apples and oranges in a lot of ways. It generally boils down to two things; Your appearance (whether you look black/white) which about 90% and who you identify with culturally.
soundscream
Member
If you target a specific race you are racially profiling!
You just love making blanket statements about "non-blacks", don't you?
This bullshit does nothing to further the discourse that is NEEDED right now - it only serves to further muddy up the discussion by speaking as these are absolute facts.
Sorry, you're not helping the "racist" argument by making, DARE I SAY IT, racist fucking statements, genius. How is it right for ANYONE to make blanket absolute statements about another race? How is it justified to say all "non-blacks" lack the cognitive skills to find the President's words significant? What do you have against Hispanics, Asians, Whites, Indians, Native Americans, Middle Easterners, etc? What do you have against "non-blacks" that you think it's perfectly fine to profile them? Isn't that how this whole situation started? How fucking idiotic.
There are plenty of "non-black" folks who are on YOUR SIDE, which, you will never see or believe since you seem to have a predisposition against "non-blacks".
How shameful.
Edit:
But it's OK for you to do it, right?
Zeus Molecules
illegal immigrants are stealing our air
I guess its just the leap of logic threw me for a loop.
Oh yes, and I do agree with that sentiment most definitely but I think that's just a part of the picture when there was. There was many blowing up things for those who believed it was racism and those who didn't. It's harmful and I don't like it either way but it's almost inescapable when it gets this much media attention.
I'm sorry your husband came at you like that. Give him a smack for acting like that to you, please.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
I am appalled at some of it.
Shrennin
Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
I'm done. You didn't even read my whole statement where I clarified that I understand he racially profiled in part. I was under the assumption that we were talking about the specific problem that blacks have in regards to being racially profiled. In the sentence you bolded, I was clarifying the two different reasons Zimmerman may have racially profiled (because he was racist or because there were robberies that just so happened to done primarily by a certain race).
The most surprising thing about this whole ordeal is how ZERO people on the right, especially the NRA, have used this situation as an excuse to peddle more guns.
It just goes to show how even something as sacred as the second amendment can take a back seat to Republican distaste for Black people. Though I guess this probably isn't surprising considering the Mulford Act, which banned guns in California, was only enacted when the Black Panthers started carrying them (and was even signed by the Lord Reagan himself!)
It just goes to show how even something as sacred as the second amendment can take a back seat to Republican distaste for Black people. Though I guess this probably isn't surprising considering the Mulford Act, which banned guns in California, was only enacted when the Black Panthers started carrying them (and was even signed by the Lord Reagan himself!)
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
- Black people make up 50% of all inmates in prison even though we only make up 12% of the countrys population.
- Black people are incarcerated at 6 times the rate of white people.
- 5 times as many white people use drugs as black people, yet black people are sent to prison 10 times more for drug offenses.
- Black people serve the same amount of time in prison for non-violent drug offenses (4.8 years) as white people do for a violent offenses (5.1 years).
- Black people are 12% of all drug users, but they are 32% of all people arrested for drug possession.
- In 2002 black people constituted 80% of all people sent to jail for crack cocaine laws, even though 66% of people that due crack cocaine are white or Hispanic.
- In New Jersey 15% of all drivers are black, yet 42% of cars pulled over for a traffic violation are black. And 72% of all drivers arrested for a traffic violation are black.
- In New Jersey 77% of all traffic car searches were of minorities.
- In Maryland 17% of drivers are black, but 70% stopped and searched were black. These stats are where the term driving while black come from.
- But heres the catch, whites who were pulled over were more likely to have illegal drugs in their cars. In New Jersey whites were 2 times more likely than blacks and 5 times more likely than Latinos to have illegal drugs in their cars.
- In America black people are convicted to death penalty sentences more than white people even though they committed the same crime.
- And also in America of all criminals that have been executed due to the death penalty, 84% of the victims have been white. Only 12% have been black since 1976. Even though 50% of all homicides have black victims.
- Also since 1976, 40% of all people executed were black even though we only make up 12% of the population.
- There have been studies that have shown that people with white sounding names get interview call backs quicker and easier than people with black sounding names. Examples of the names being: Keisha, Tamika, Latonya, and Ebony. And these resumes were literally the exact same, just different names.
- The names that sounded more white were 50% more likely to get a call back than the ones with black sounding names. The test was done in Boston and Chicago.
- And watch this video where they do a test of black kids and white kids vandalizing a car and what the white people do in response based on race. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQHdbW36XjE
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So explain to me again why Obama shouldn't have addressed this particular issue, considering the above stats?
- Black people are incarcerated at 6 times the rate of white people.
- 5 times as many white people use drugs as black people, yet black people are sent to prison 10 times more for drug offenses.
- Black people serve the same amount of time in prison for non-violent drug offenses (4.8 years) as white people do for a violent offenses (5.1 years).
- Black people are 12% of all drug users, but they are 32% of all people arrested for drug possession.
- In 2002 black people constituted 80% of all people sent to jail for crack cocaine laws, even though 66% of people that due crack cocaine are white or Hispanic.
- In New Jersey 15% of all drivers are black, yet 42% of cars pulled over for a traffic violation are black. And 72% of all drivers arrested for a traffic violation are black.
- In New Jersey 77% of all traffic car searches were of minorities.
- In Maryland 17% of drivers are black, but 70% stopped and searched were black. These stats are where the term driving while black come from.
- But heres the catch, whites who were pulled over were more likely to have illegal drugs in their cars. In New Jersey whites were 2 times more likely than blacks and 5 times more likely than Latinos to have illegal drugs in their cars.
- In America black people are convicted to death penalty sentences more than white people even though they committed the same crime.
- And also in America of all criminals that have been executed due to the death penalty, 84% of the victims have been white. Only 12% have been black since 1976. Even though 50% of all homicides have black victims.
- Also since 1976, 40% of all people executed were black even though we only make up 12% of the population.
- There have been studies that have shown that people with white sounding names get interview call backs quicker and easier than people with black sounding names. Examples of the names being: Keisha, Tamika, Latonya, and Ebony. And these resumes were literally the exact same, just different names.
- The names that sounded more white were 50% more likely to get a call back than the ones with black sounding names. The test was done in Boston and Chicago.
- And watch this video where they do a test of black kids and white kids vandalizing a car and what the white people do in response based on race. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQHdbW36XjE
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So explain to me again why Obama shouldn't have addressed this particular issue, considering the above stats?
The Librarian
Banned
Well, I'm just curious as to your thought processes. Obama is silent on a lot of things: I mean, aside from the win on his election night, he hasn't said much about voting problems in the country, especially in the wake of SCOTUS' ruling on the VRA. However, that doesn't mean what he said today thinks it'll help him politically.
I'm still trying to figure out why he thinks saying what he said helps him politically whether it be his agenda or anything else. Not everything a politician says is for their own benefit. Sure you could argue much of it is, but not everything.
The problem that us blacks have with racial profiling, is that we are associated with criminals. Trayvon, was associated with a criminal. Because Zimmerman racially profiled him, due to his skin color, and associated him with criminals.
You understand that he profiled, but you're still giving Zimmerman some sort of consideration that he possibly maybe wasn't. We have a record of his racial profiling, right there. All of his profiling finally led up to shooting Trayvon to death, He constantly racially profiled blacks.
Thats the problem blacks have with racial profiling. I dare say any sensible person can agree that its a significant problem in our country.
If you know Zimmerman racially profiled, you should know that racial profiling is 100% unacceptable in a free nation. Any part of it is unacceptable. Do you agree/disagree?
soundscream
Member
Yep happened to me parked at McDonalds at 3pm. Guns drawn on me and car searched for no reason.
I think you may be misunderstanding what racial profiling is. Would you mind explaining what you mean when you say "racial profiling"?
Edit:
Your clarification explains things a little better.
Shrennin
Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
This is what I believe: I believe that making judgments about someone based on their race and nothing else is completely wrong no matter what race you are. I also believe that Zimmerman had no authority to try to stop Martin even if he were up to no good.
Racial profiling is making an assumption of someone (or targeting someone, in this case) due to the color of their skin. Like I said, this is a misunderstanding that I can't really clarify so I'm done with the argument. I was trying to bring up "why" Zimmerman may have racially profiled and not whether or not he actually did racially profile (I think he did, at least in part).
I'm glad it helped. I made a couple of assumptions in regards to what this topic about that I think were wrong (or at least I didn't clarify where I was coming from). I think Zimmerman was completely in the wrong as soon as he started to follow Martin. As part of the community watch, if he thought Martin was looking into houses or acting suspicious he should have just called 911 and then he should have been done with it. Unfortunately, he didn't do that and a tragedy was created.
Deified Data
Banned
Doesn't take being black to recognize when something is wrong.
Angry Fork
Member
Tavis Smiley suggested this semi-jokingly to Bill O'reilly, just to point out the hypocrisy, and O'reilly showed his true colors out loud by saying that 'would be a little extreme'. But of course it isn't extreme if all whites had guns.
http://youtu.be/AW4VT-C_XcE?t=6m3s
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
Uhm because jobs, and scandals!! derr...
Seriously excellent post. BTW the same people bitching about Obama commenting on this are probably the same ones that give him shit when he doesn't comment on something fast enough.
Vicetrailia
Banned
I'm glad that Obama spoke out. The squelches aren't concerned with improving the QUO's anyway, discomfort is a good thing.
ReturnOfTheRAT
Member
Obama is right. Could have been me too, around that age when I was in the Fort Myers/Cape Coral area.
Kite
Member
I never understood this type of thinking, it is asking me to go against logic and common sense. If there is an amber alert for a middle-aged Hispanic male in a red pickup truck suspected of kidnapping then I am going to racially profile every Hispanic male I come across as well as "color profile" every red truck I see. That type of racial profiling I have no problem with because obviously it is in response to actual events. Racial profiling that is obviously unacceptable are like NYC's stop and frisk laws or the whole "driving while Black" stops.
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