White Student Union came down to Georgia State
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Shamrock7r
Member
Beautiful. I knew I would get posts just like this, sweeping generalizations, putting words in my mouth, etc. Where did I say ANY of this? I never said or even insinuated that.
Absolutely the averages are staggering. Minorities have it much much harder. Everything from blatant racism, to profiling, and so forth. To insinuate though, that no white person ever experiences similar issues is a hypocritical stance to take. Everyone here is an individual. Our life experiences are different. This kind of ass backwards thinking from people like you doesn't help remove race seperation, it only helps to enhance it.
Let me be perfectly clear. This isn't even about the stupid white student union. This is about the mentality of a lot of Gaffers in general.
I am Anglo(dad) / Hispanic(mom), although I do look very much predominantly white.
I live/grew up in South Texas.
Population Totals of the city I live in:
Hispanic or Latino(of any race) 150737 54.33%
Not Hispanic or Latino 126717 45.67%
White alone 106901 38.53%
I come from a middle class family. Every school I went to through High School was 80% or more hispanic. Growing up at these schools, I was occasionally bullied, called names, and put into situations where I had to physically defend myself because I was white. You have no idea what I, or anybody else on here has experienced growing up and still experiences to this day. You don't know about everyone's history, their family, their friends, their enemies, etc.
For you, or anyone else to demean, insult, and make stupid generalizations of any person who comes on here to defend/debate their stance/experience (in a friendly manner) from a white perspective , or a perspective of equality in general, is ridiculous, hurtful, and goes against the supposed very thing that we all want on here, which is an equal and fair society.
So anyone claiming these shitheels are anything other than racist neofascist twats can shut up now. Thanks.
Gee, I don't know, you seem pretty hot and bothered that the "vocal minority" has a bone to pick with thinly veiled attempts to turn back the clock. Why do you think its unfair for people to be arguing against posters who find nothing wrong with the racial situation threads?
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
I didn't demean, insult, or make stupid generalizations about you. I asked you if you would switch with a minority. Since you didn't answer, I'll take that as a no. You've also apparently chose to ignore my previous posts, so I don't see any value in attempting to debate with you reasonably. I know and understand that not everyone's experience is the same, and that white people are often bullied when they are not the majority in a given situation. However, you specifically said, "If you haven't learned on here by now, there is a very vocal group of users that will scream racism/bigotry at any person defending certain rights for white people, while at the same time championing those for minorites, all the while screaming "equality", because you know, every white person grows up with a mom and a dad and lots of money and lots of friends and a college fund and is never discriminated against in any capacity. It's incredibly hypocritical."
Arguing for the validity of minority student unions is not denying white people any rights, and the White Student Union, this particular group and not any possible white student unions in existence, is a very obvious hate group. If you think that's worth defending, then not only will I begin making generalizations, but I will also reserve the right to view anything you might say as not worth recognizing.
Shamrock7r
Member
Your question doesn't makes sense. It's not a logical yes or no question, so I did answer it, just not in entrapping way you hoped.
Look, this thread was not the best way to even bring up what I'm arguing about because it's creating confusion with you and a few others and that's my fault picking the wrong avenue to express my displeasure with the mentality of some on this site. It's probably better served for a thread that is more a wide ranging debate on race, racismn, etc. as a whole. So for that I apologize.
To clarify I again, I am not even arguing about the student union. Reading their "mission statement", if indeed that was the real one that someone had posted, it's obviously a bitter, near racist retort towards minority unions.
My argument was on a neogaf mentality as a whole when it comes to threads like this, so I am just going to stop now and save it for a thread where it makes more sense to talk about.
cheststrongwell
my cake, fuck off
Dude eats ice cream. Can't be that bad.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Vermillion
Banned
'Cause life's based on skin color, amigo. Mumei had a great link a while back... I can't find it right now, but it was about why the argument about "basing things on wealth" doesn't work, as there's still a difference for black Americans.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
First of all I am brown of Latin American descent. I don't see anything immoral with white people aka people of European descent gathering for their own self interest. My problem is the white race (of all cultures and backgrounds) are being dismissed when other races of people do this in America themselves. This is the land of the free we are talking about. If your going to allow blacks, Hispanics, east Asians, south Asian, pacific islander, Jewish, and Arab the rights to congregate with one another but deny white people, by definition that is racist. To be able to live in an equal rights society you have to allow "all" types of people to be able to congregate with one another. This includes, Catholics, Jews, Atheist, Black nationalist, White Separatist, Communists, and Muslim theocrats etc.
and why is there no white history month amirite??
people have problems with racist organizations, who would have thought?
Should we also have a straight student union? What about cisgendered student union celebrating the amazingness of cisgendered folks?
Can't stop laughing. What a bunch of morons.
Succinct Verbosity
Member
Am I the only person who really doesn't feel the need to identify himself as part of something larger? I consider myself a social democrat, so I understand the need to unionise a group of people to protect workers rights, but at the same time, race seems either irrelevant or personal in a school or work environment. I guess that's the dream, but here we are. Oh well.
Boom Boom Pow
Banned
i tihnk you missed the point. all of those that you listed, they all have a common ancestry. Something that unifies them. The Mexican Student Association. The Japanese Union. The Jewish group.
What is "White?" What is "White" celebrating?
Everyone here has no problem with an Italian Student Union, or a UK Student Union.
CrazyDogg77
Member
Nobody's saying white people can't gather but the reason minorities have these groups is because they are generally underrepresented in society at large. White people don't have this problem. They determine the society at large. So many people see it as unneeded to have white groups because they don't generally have the same type of problems as minorities do.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Whatever they want to do, allow them to do it because the fact is that today that's how it stands. We allow gays to marry in many states and to have gay pride parades. So if it doesn't interfere with the school curriculum or harm anyone else it should be allowed.
There's so many student unions, I don't think it's harmful to have a few more. Power to them.
TestOfTide
Banned
What if said straight student union decided that for one of its activities it was going to search at night for "Gay Predators"? I'm asking this because this white student union is doing just that with "Black Predators".
You ever see the film "Birth of a Nation"?
would you say... white power to them?
we allow racist organizations to exist in this country, but we are free to ridicule their ignorant members. and the moment these children get violent (which will happen soon), they need to be disbanded and banned.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
White American is a cultural and racial group of any European ethnicity. It's not hard to understand. You can understand Black American but not white?
White people decide nothing. The rulers of government decide everything. There is no pro-white coalition that makes all the decisions. You can't say white people grouping up for their own self interest are "unneeded". That is a condemnation of whiteness based upon non-white grievances.
There is no celebrating though. Mind you, this isn't illegal to "celebrate" one's pride. Nor do I find that person racist.
How is congregating equate to violence?
You say that children will become violent soon" because you are claiming that they are racist by your own prejudice. So according to your ideology, black, Hispanic and Asian student school unions at any minute should be stirring up racial violence. Just because of their race.
Thanks for the conversation and not dismissing me. I strongly believe in equal opportunity.
Honestly, this is already what I wonder about other ethnicity-centered clubs. They all end up doing the same thing -- eat, drink, socialize, volunteer.
Dark Octave
Banned
I wonder why white people need a union?
What what disadvantages do they have here in the US?
I don't think you're really grasping the issue here. Unions exists because the disenfranchised don't have strong institutions already in place for them. White student union , Straight student union,...,ect...are all redundant.
Not a big fan of any racial/ethnic club although I understand they may be helpful to some minorities who are clearly struggling, but I suspect that a white union will degenerate pretty quickly into a racial supremacy thing faster than any other union. Where are the campus stormfronters going to flock to?
I honestly wouldn't mind a white union at all, as long as they didn't start doing dumb shit. Same goes for any unions, really.
To be frank, the supposition that we could address the problems that black people face by addressing the problems faced by all lower-income people presupposes that racism isn't actually a problem and that whatever travails black people is simply a function of class. But that's not the case - while class and race are certainly related and black people are indeed more likely to be poor and disadvantaged because of that - they are more likely to be poor because they are black, and their race represents an independent barrier to success in addition to their class. A poor black person faces more barriers than a poor white person, ceteris parabus. What's more, the barriers likely to be affecting a black man who would benefit from the affirmative action under discussion would likely not be class-based, but race-based.
We actually know from experiments of white college students that they tend to underestimate the ability of black applicants, even when those applicants' abilities are identical to white applicants, and this effect becomes more pronounced the more competent the black applicant is (being exceptional does not ameliorate this). A class-based affirmative action program would not benefit this applicant. If we want affirmative action to be effective, we need it in two places: We need affirmative action in the process, so we know that it is fair; the idea being that if the process is fair, any qualified person has an equal chance of being hired. This requires that the job is widely advertised and that all applicants receive similar treatment (questions, evaluation criteria, and so forth). Unfortunately because of the aforementioned biases that have been demonstrated and the fact that there are so many chances for these biases to arrive, just having affirmative action in the process isn't enough to ameliorate issues. We also need to have goals, where the people who move an organization closer to diversity goals are favored.
I think most people agree with the first part, but a lot of people struggle with the second. I wasn't really comfortable with it for a long time because I can imagine being in a situation where I could have had a job but lost out because of either my race or my gender, but the more I've learned about discrimination, unconscious biases, structural advantages, and so forth, I've gotten over it.
Anyway, I don't disagree that helping lower-income people is important, or that we could do more (most especially by working to lower inequalities of all kinds, including socioeconomic) but it cannot replace race-based affirmative action.
I'm also not sure which link you were talking about, specifically, though I did remember that The New Jim Crow had a quote about affirmative action:
"... One recent study indicates that the elimination of race-based admissions policies would lead to a 63 percent decline in black matriculants at all law schools and a 90 percent decline at elite law schools. Sociologist Stephen Steinberg describes the bleak reality this way: "Insofar as this black middle class is an artifact of affirmative action policy, it cannot be said to be the result of autonomous workings of market forces. In other words, the black middle class does not reflect the lowering of racist barriers in occupations so much as the opposite: racism is so entrenched that without government intervention there would be little 'progress' to boast about."
In view of all this, we must ask, to what extent has affirmative action helped us remain blind to, and in denial about, the existence of a racial underclass?"
In view of all this, we must ask, to what extent has affirmative action helped us remain blind to, and in denial about, the existence of a racial underclass?"
You may also have been thinking of an editorial written by the same author that makes a point about the state of black progress:
Recent data shows, though, that much of black progress is a myth. In many respects, African-Americans are doing no better than they were when Martin Luther King Jr. was assassinated and uprisings swept inner cities across America. Nearly a quarter of African-Americans live below the poverty line today, approximately the same percentage as in 1968. The black child poverty rate is actually higher now than it was then. Unemployment rates in black communities rival those in Third World countries. And that's with affirmative action!
When we pull back the curtain and take a look at what our "colorblind" society creates without affirmative action, we see a familiar social, political, and economic structure--the structure of racial caste. The entrance into this new caste system can be found at the prison gate.
When we pull back the curtain and take a look at what our "colorblind" society creates without affirmative action, we see a familiar social, political, and economic structure--the structure of racial caste. The entrance into this new caste system can be found at the prison gate.
Alexander actually criticizes affirmative action as not progressive enough and being the epitome of what she quotes Martin Luther King Jr. as warning against: racial justice purchased on the cheap. She also argues that affirmative action creates an illusion of progress where little actually exists. She is addressing this more from the perspective of the system of mass incarceration, and how, for instance, the complicity of minority officers (who are in many departments directly because of affirmative action programs) in the War on Drugs serves to legitimate them and insulate them from claims of racism despite the fact that minority officers engage in racial profiling nearly as consistently as white officers. In some ways having a black president presents the same problem as having a black police chief, writ large. You have people who see black leadership and think, "How can you say the police force is racist; the police chief is black!" and you see people who make similarly arguments replacing the United States or America with the President.
I think it' s a fair argument, though I don't see what a realistic alternative would be.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
That isn't completely true. There is affirmative action right now that benefits non-white people. Non discriminatory law. In all society, there is no white advantage beyond the fact that some while may grow in a family with some money. Something you can say about other races as well. Asian American's (as a group) have higher (on average) personal household income than white's. How do you explain this if we live in a so called white supremacist society? I look at as these hard working individuals working to make a living for themselves and family.
I like have discussions about social issues because a lot of people are not cognitively thinking or dissecting these issues. So it will make people think if they analyze other peoples beliefs.
Wrong. It has been proven multiple times that even with similar qualifications, minorities have lower success rates of getting jobs and so on. Heck, back in the days, even some white folks (Irish, etc) felt this type of discrimination.
if you don't think a "white student union" that promotes protection from "black predators" in colleges in America's southern states is exceedingly likely to degrade into young white supremecists inciting violence, then you need to read a history book. you also seem to have a deep misunderstanding of "my ideology", if you think you can blindly apply every point i make to a minority race to try to make a point.
Boom Boom Pow
Banned
how many countries do you want to include in that? Do you want to include Turkey? Montenegro? or the caucusus in Russia?
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
You want to stop one race from doing this then you have to stop all of them. It's only fair. I'm trying not to sound too demeaning and keep this conversation on the level. I think it's fair for this to be thought out more in consideration of white American people.
Now I have to go play some Nintendo with a good friends (seriously). One of them happens to be black. And one of them white. I think they both should the same rights to be playing online or local NES/Wii!
Go look at a map of Europe. Almost all indigenous people in that continent are white.
No commies, that's the 2nd rule.
Just wondering, are you upset that there are no straight guys association on your college campus? And If there was one, which of the following is more likely : 1) the gay association starts harassing the straight association or 2) the straight association starts making fun of the gay group?
Affirmative action and Anti-Discriminatory laws actually helped some "White" folks as well.
I think you have something confused here though, the Asian demographic make up 5% of US where as the other 70% are "White". Surely you can see how your data can be affected by that.
I think this is your biggest preconception here. Automatically assuming everyone else who doesn't fit a high income statistic as working less hard than everyone else around. That's troubling IMO.
What? Are you seriously saying their isn't a white advantage in society?
Boom Boom Pow
Banned
but don't you understand? their culture are all so different from one another, wht would they be celebrating? What is uniting them together?
White what? white skin? What does make one white ? my skin is whiter than most white ppl, and I'm not even white
White Americans can't have a culture outside of whatever European roots they may have?
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
If you are claiming that somehow non whites are discriminated against by white employers (in theory), then the solution would be obviously to have minority entrepreneurs to discriminate against whites. Because we know racism is not exclusively a white problem.
You can't read peoples minds or psychoanalyze people and determine they are a racist because they are white.
What's the problem with you and white or straight people? Is gay or black the only acceptable people to you? What threat is perceived by white or gays grouping up? Is it not of your group? I'm merely asking for the sake of conversation or to get clarity in issue.
This is not 1963 anymore. White people are going to become the minority in the US regardless of how they feel about it. That right there shows that we don''t live in a white supremacist society.
Now I'm behind and have friends waiting for me. Sorry I can't finish this but I think I've made all the relevant points and hope some ponder these things because society is changing for the white American.
CrazyDogg77
Member
Or just no discrimination at all
Boom Boom Pow
Banned
and what culture is that? The only one I know of are, correct me if Im wrong.
Slavery
Wrongful colonization of the rest of the known world
Wrongful enslavement
Mass destruction of native Americans
Racism against minority
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Last post on this guys, it's been engaging.
America is country. White is a race. Culture comes from an ethnic group of people. An ethnic group is a person of a certain race, culture, and national origin. So if you take this into account, a White American has a culture and a race and is an ethnic group descendant of one or various European indigenous ethnic groups.
So white Americans are unified by their race, culture and national origin. Just the same case same as Black Americans. I feel that this deserves a fair shake on not just white or black but all ethnic groups.
That would be great. At the end of the day you can't force someone to hire anybody of any race. You can't force nobody to not discriminate. It's a mental thing that goes deeper than this conversation can sustain. Unless it's law.
Sound point and this should be digested thoroughly.
America is country. White is a race. Culture comes from an ethnic group of people. An ethnic group is a person of a certain race, culture, and national origin. So if you take this into account, a White American has a culture and a race and is an ethnic group descendant of one or various European indigenous ethnic groups.
So white Americans are unified by their race, culture and national origin. Just the same case same as Black Americans. I feel that this deserves a fair shake on not just white or black but all ethnic groups.
That would be great. At the end of the day you can't force someone to hire anybody of any race. You can't force nobody to not discriminate. It's a mental thing that goes deeper than this conversation can sustain. Unless it's law.
Sound point and this should be digested thoroughly.
So, you are saying White Americans have no accomplishments to be proud of, should be shameful of their identity, and should discredit any of their successes?
White women benefit from affirmative action even more than do racial minorities. It's something that is easy to forget since we almost always discuss affirmative action in the context of race.
Vermillion
Banned
There he is! And I believe that it was the second link. Thanks.
reggieandTFE
Member
Are you from the South?
I think it is to help immigrates and give them a safe place to fit in right away
This is so fuckin stupid. I could understand if it was a european minority group, like a Polish Student Union or something, but a White Student Union? lmao. White Culture doesn't even exist (in the US it's basically synonymous to WASPs) so such as union would be equivalent to an American culture union. It would be like British folks doing a English student union in England. It's ridiculous.
White men are burdened?
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*EDIT*
Can someone school me on this white male burden? Are there any examples of cultural imperialism? No one understands the white man according to the White Student Union and I feel your pa.. No, I don't feel your pain but I want to understand.
Is this Obama's fault?
Is Brian Michael Bendis responsible as well?
Is opening music for the White Student Union going to be sung by Brad Paisley?
....
....
....
*EDIT*
Can someone school me on this white male burden? Are there any examples of cultural imperialism? No one understands the white man according to the White Student Union and I feel your pa.. No, I don't feel your pain but I want to understand.
Is this Obama's fault?
Is Brian Michael Bendis responsible as well?
Is opening music for the White Student Union going to be sung by Brad Paisley?
EatinOlives
Member
"White American" isn't in any way identifiable, because you're not only including those of European descent, you're including literally anyone in the world who is of white skin and considers themselves American.
I fall into the definition of "White American". The color of my skin is white, yet I was born and raised in Latin America and only very recently became a naturalized citizen. In no way do I identify as a people with a third/fourth/fifth generation American person whose great grandafter came to the US from Russia, nor do they identify as a people with the daughter of an immigrant from Germany. Yet we're all "White Americans".
Let's say we approach this "white student union" with nothing but pure naivete. In what ways are three of us supposed to relate? We are not unified by our race, nor our national origin. We only have our white skin in common, but how does this "unify" us?
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