Emerson
May contain jokes =>
Do you not think these "kids" are already lost to society? Frankly I do.
3 kids beat another kid, black eyes and broken arm on schoolbus; driver calls cops
- Thread starter andthebeatgoeson
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Do you not think these "kids" are already lost to society? Frankly I do.
Uncle Rupee
Banned
They're already selling drugs. It's not like they're suddenly going to become upstanding citizens when they turn 18 and have to start flipping burgers for a living. Trying them as adults in this case seems justified given the way they targeted this kid. If they're smart they'll take the opportunity to maybe learn something other than criminal behavior while in the slammer.
Devolution
Member
So lock 'em up for life?
CrocMother
Banned
You guys are right. I mean, considering it can cost $45,000+ a year to incarcerate them it makes sense to just execute them now since they are lost anyway.
Or maybe just cut off their hands so they could never beat anyone ever again.
Or maybe just cut off their hands so they could never beat anyone ever again.
Problem with this is that prison has gone from a rehabilitation center to a place where they come out as more of a criminal than when they went in. I have absolutely no sources on this, other than the Shawshank Redemption.
Going to agree that they won't suddenly turn around and start working their ass off to a minimum wage job. They are probably making more money and having a hell of a lot more freedom dealing drugs at 15 than they ever will working at minimum wage.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
I have another reason in the back of my head that I want to shake. I really don't understand the police in this at all. It's not victim blaming but I get a sense of it. Those 3 boys didn't appear much could stop them. Not sure if the police is frustrated or....
I hate it and I hate when these bullshit artists where pushing it. It was some bullshit about gangsters doing gangster shit. I can understand if two people are doing crimes, there may be some element of not snitching. However, it's been born out of a shitty movie culture and applied to too many people. Grandma sees a crime and she can't report it? Fuck out of here.
You forgot one thing. UR black. Sorry, system doesn't work for you. I really don't want to go down this route because it's inflammatory but I cannot shake this feeling. Sorry, the guy is 60+, what the fuck am I supposed to expect from him. I'm not saying the sheriff is wearing a hood but what other suspicions should I be having? Just some random sheriff with a differing view? I would legitimately only expect a well toned and seasoned male to step in this fight. And if anyone didn't want a piece of these 3 kids, I can understand.
Maybe I'm just upset with the perceived differences on how we should handle certain teenagers but you have to call this into question. This isn't just me jumping to a position because I want to wave an Al Sharpton card. But all objective evidence is that the kid was getting destroyed and somebody wants the 64 yo guy to jump in? That shitty fox 'The Five' show was visciously attacking the driver, almost as if he did something. I know, it's Fox News but WTF, people. Sorry, the kid got his ass whupped. He'll survive. Not expecting anybody over the age of 50 to jump in. Maybe 20-45 yo males. This shit isn't Hollywood. I doubt he's going to Liam Neeson it up.
Zoe
Member
That's pretty naive.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
No, I'm not going to pretend to know that answer.
What should be obvious though is that most inner city kids who end up as lifelong criminals are long gone by their mid-teens. We shouldn't pretend that society can turn them around. We have to stop the cycle that lands them there in the first place.
CrocMother
Banned
The inner-city is changing pretty drastically in most places. Urban crime has plummeted over the past decade. Gentrification is pushing poor people out into the suburbs, where there is generally less trouble for kids to get into.
The prison population are full of those "lifelong criminals", who are mostly over the age of 50. There's a huge push to stop adding to the prison population. We'll see what happens
Byakuya769
Member
Fuck. I better try and get my colleagues at top law firm fired then. I know a few that have sold drugs in their teens. Or are white drug dealers a little easier for society to handle?
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
You simultaneously argue against victim blaming then blame the driver? He should take physical punishment against 3 pretty physically developed teenagers for what? The only blame lies with the perps. Not only is he putting himself at risk legally, he's directly disobeying an order and protocol (seen at many places, you'll get fired for doing this while you work at Walmart), he risks harm (demonstrated by the guys breaking the kids arm) and possibly his life (he's 64. A broken arm and hospitalization could easily lead to other complications), etc. Why is he the coward? Victim blaming should not be allowed because the sole responsibility is on the offending person. We are talking about an attack that caused a teenager to break a long bone. I keep repeating it because as we get older, the likelihood of breaking something is higher. You want a 64 yo male to jump into that? The opposite of courageous is not cowardly or, to put it another way, just because someone is not overly courageous doesn't mean they are a coward. There has to be a middle ground.
I saw the most hardcore drugs at: not my high school or undergrad. But at medical school. People doing cocaine, popping a ton of pills, huffing this, smoking that. Shit was cray but that's America. A lot of people doing drugs, acquiring it, distributing it. Only some are charged and convicted.
Byakuya769
Member
Why didn't any other kids jump in to help? If all 20 of the kids had moved to stop them, then the bullies would have lost. I know what I would have done: rallied all of my colleagues to say we were tired of violence and then join hands in solidarity! I would have gotten a key to the city. Ah well. Hopefully my time to shine comes.
CrocMother
Banned
Sometimes they don't, somtimes they have health issues that effect them for the rest of their lives sometimes the beatings are adding on to other bad shit happening. I don't know about you but I would try to step in. I don't want a dead kid or one that is pemenently disfigured on my hands because I sat there. I am not judging this guy, but that is my view
Is this what you took away from that? If this happens again, you wouldn't step in and get your kids toy back?
Preach!
I don't exactly understand what you're saying here. It sounds like you've said that children are more prone to sexual and physical assault and that is ok because of their raging hormones.
highrider
Banned
Agreed. But I boxed and weigh over 200 pounds so in my mind I think like a fighter. I certainly don't expect everyone to do that. But yeah, you can get killed being beaten like that very easily. What is with these hyper violent kids? He's knocked out, time to kick him in the head now.
what were you the hall monitor? Unless you are a teacher or something in which case its your job to do that. But if you a kid you cant really snitch.
The whole problem with this is you cant do anything to these dumbass kids or you get sued or fired. In any sane country the bus driver would have been able to pull off the 3 punks and beat their ass right there on the spot and gotten an award.
CrocMother
Banned
black out that one part and yes, that is my point. I think the other part of my point was that we are more forgiving to minors because of it. Not just the hormones of course but also many other factors that elicits our sympathies, such as a lack of control and direct influence of the environment they grew up in.
The final part of my point was that to judge whether or not we prosecute some minors as adults and others as kids should not be based off subjective interpretations of "brutality". We want to have our cake and eat it too, but I don't think it's really fair.
Your point seems to forget that kid who could have been beaten to death.
CrocMother
Banned
We've got this rule where we don't try minors the same way we do adults.
We don't break the rule because we feel sorry for the victim. That's not how the law works.
Byakuya769
Member
Only in bizarro land where it's tried as an adult or walk away with no punishment.
Your point seems to forget that kid who could have been beaten to death, my statement still stands.
I never said they weren't going to be punished. I feel ambivalent about this, one hand they are minors. On the other hand they could have beaten someone to death. Good thing the latter didn't happen.
TheLaughingStock
Member
There's a hood mentality all throughout society. Folks may retaliate when you tell on them no matter where you are.
First post.
Bus Driver did the correct thing.
And that kid could have permenint health issues, disfigurements and could have been killed. I do not want live knowing I let that happen with out doing anything.
And that bus driver could've been sued or even put in prison for violence against a minor...especially since he's not defending himself in that situation. He radioed for help and called the police. He absolutely did the correct thing here.
Forsaken82
Member
How do you suppose he gets between the kids when according to the story, the kid was on the floor between bus seats getting pummeled...
It has been a while since I have ridden in a school bus but I don't recall much room to navigate between seats...
He did do something... he followed his companies shitty policy in regards to the situation and contacted dispatch. The question is really what could he have done outside of physically assaulting the bullies (and by physically assaulting, this could simply mean grabbing them by the shirt and pulling them off the kid... ) and I don't think there is much he could do.
I get to keep my job if I sit here and potentially let a kid die. I couldn't live like that.
Be mindful the guy is old, and some othe things. So I cannot judge him, but I couldn't sit there atleast.
GungHo
Single-handedly caused Exxon-Mobil to sue FOX, start World War 3
Have you ever intervened in a fight on someone's behalf? Against three people?
Well, technically, you did. Fly faster next time. (I am fucking with you.)
I wish, Man if I was Captain marvel for a day.
There is no way to get between the bullies and the kid without getting the drivers' hands dirty. The bullies had a 90 degrees on the kid. Two were in the aisle side by side, and the third was in the seat behind the kid. Only way to separate them was to shove all three of them out of the way towards the back of the bus.
Byakuya769
Member
Then what are you saying? Their punishment will take into account how badly they injured the victim. But it will also take into account that they are minors.
I do not know how to feel. Like I said.
chickdigger802
Banned
you know...
dropout prevention school
sounds almost like a prison bus. Bus should have a bouncer or something. It is kinda irresponsible to just have an elderly bus driver to handle the zoo while driving.
dropout prevention school
sounds almost like a prison bus. Bus should have a bouncer or something. It is kinda irresponsible to just have an elderly bus driver to handle the zoo while driving.
Born and raised in south st.pete. This kind of shit (and worse) happened all the time coming up.
George Claw M.D.
Member
Fuck that chief for suggesting the driver should have stepped in. Look at the video. Those kids were vicious. The driver would've ended up like the teacher who tried to break up the fight at the beginning of "Lean On Me." And if he somehow handled all 3 of those kids, he would've been sued and faced other repercussions. Poor kid, but he'll heal much easier than a 64yr old man would.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldYNQNStcOI#t=02m06s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldYNQNStcOI#t=02m06s
computers putin'
Member
indeed, which makes the police chief trying to pin the blame on the bus driver a bit ironic, and makes the police chief seem like a douche.
MidgarBlowedUp
Member
Yep, bus driver did the right thing. Florida, and America, should reap what it sows, lay in the bed it made for itself, yada yada... You know, in NC they are trying to pass a bill so that 13 year olds are tried as adults.
It's all about progress in the US of A
It's all about progress in the US of A
George Claw M.D.
Member
Are you saying that if the driver were to fight the kids off and injure them, he would be considered a Good Samaritan?
I have many friends/relatives in the education system. This is pretty much dead on accurate. It's a horrible situation for the bus driver to be in, but he did the "right" thing in today's completely fucked up world.
No. I wasn't saying anything, I asked a question. It's very often just repeated and repeated that everyone gets sued for everything and the whole system is utterly broken. I'd just like to see some basis for this.
Chainsawkitten
Member
I don't care so much about the legal responsibilities of the bus driver. Stepping in is still most likely not the right thing to do. People claiming the bus driver should have stepped in seem to think it would either solve the situation, make it better or no difference (as far as the kid is concerned). Well, it also could have gotten worse. And that's what usually happens when someone who has no training whatsoever, doesn't have a clue how to handle the situation and is scared shitless (and thus not thinking straight) still decides to step in. What happens is you escalate it. Even police don't dive in to break up a fight, other than an absolute last resort (after calling backup).
Perhaps intervening in this particlar situation would have been good. Who knows? In the majority of situations, it isn't.
Same thing about the "bystander effect" people complain of (and call people cowards over). Why don't most people intervene? Because it would be a terrible fucking idea to do so in the vast majority of cases.
Perhaps intervening in this particlar situation would have been good. Who knows? In the majority of situations, it isn't.
Same thing about the "bystander effect" people complain of (and call people cowards over). Why don't most people intervene? Because it would be a terrible fucking idea to do so in the vast majority of cases.
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